Condensed Beorning revision suggestions thread?

[Rhunar]

Hello fellow beornings,

is there an updated, condensed beorning revision suggestions thread differentiating by the three trait lines? Propaby I just can't see it, but this would interest me very much. I already found an updated Beorning bug list thread, but is there a summarizing "reworking the beorning post"? Hints are very welcome.

Kind regards
Rhunar

[Tatharil]

If there isn't any, maybe there should be made on. It should include Jodangod's work, found here:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...94#post7697294

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...82#post7695382

[Joedangod]

My threads generally don't have any suggestions on how to fix the Beorning listed. I simply went through each facet of the class and attempted to highlight the problems contained within. The following thread might be more accurate to what you are looking for if you want revision suggestions: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ork-Suggestion

[laughatdo0m]

Lets be honest, there's a hundred different ways they could "fix" bears for each trait line. The first place they need to start is fixing all the bugs. There are enough bugs to keep Vastin busy for a whole patch cycle or two...

Apart from that, they need to define what the bear's identity and strengths/weaknesses are in each role. Are Blue bears supposed to be reflect-damage tanks with low mitigations that can't reach the same B/P/E of other tanks classes? Then they need to be given tools to do that. It's unfortunate, but 13% parry and evade with 0% block won't get them anywhere as a tank by virtue of how the partials system works. They can't even get the 1-2% parry bonus from swords. I suppose there's always the FI gear to get them +5% parry at max wrath, but then they *STILL* have less base parry chance than a captain (not to mention the captains 18% block and 30% parry from Withdraw). It feels better just stacking health instead and traiting deep into red for composure, but tanking captains have much more utility *AND* can almost self-heal as much as a Vitality-stacked bear with composure... Are Red bears supposed to get all their damage from Bash? Because that's about all they have going for them in a sustained fight right now. Composure was arguably one of the best self heals in the game, but now you have hunters with instant 30% morale heals and blood arrow (on top of their ability to do at least 5 times as much damage as a red bear), so is the self healing from a red bear even that good anymore? Yellow bears are in a good spot right now on a pure HPS output scale, but lack the utility a mini or even RK can bring to a fight (Inspire Fellows, SoS, Coda, Anthems, RK Fates stone, etc). We're in a state right now where physical mitigation debuff from bees can actually be useful, but in a raid setting hunters should still go fire oils to make use of LM/RK debuffs. When the level cap goes up, bears will *GREATLY* miss the yellow set bonus they have right now. On the other hand, the blue set bonus is unnecessary and the red set bonus is literally useless.

Don't get me started on the legacies either. Better off swapping to unimbued items before using any bear cooldowns or bees.

[Rhunar]

Lets be honest, there's a hundred different ways they could "fix" bears for each trait line. The first place they need to start is fixing all the bugs. There are enough bugs to keep Vastin busy for a whole patch cycle or two...

Apart from that, they need to define what the bear's identity and strengths/weaknesses are in each role. Are Blue bears supposed to be reflect-damage tanks with low mitigations that can't reach the same B/P/E of other tanks classes? Then they need to be given tools to do that. It's unfortunate, but 13% parry and evade with 0% block won't get them anywhere as a tank by virtue of how the partials system works. They can't even get the 1-2% parry bonus from swords. I suppose there's always the FI gear to get them +5% parry at max wrath, but then they *STILL* have less base parry chance than a captain (not to mention the captains 18% block and 30% parry from Withdraw). It feels better just stacking health instead and traiting deep into red for composure, but tanking captains have much more utility *AND* can almost self-heal as much as a Vitality-stacked bear with composure... Are Red bears supposed to get all their damage from Bash? Because that's about all they have going for them in a sustained fight right now. Composure was arguably one of the best self heals in the game, but now you have hunters with instant 30% morale heals and blood arrow (on top of their ability to do at least 5 times as much damage as a red bear), so is the self healing from a red bear even that good anymore? Yellow bears are in a good spot right now on a pure HPS output scale, but lack the utility a mini or even RK can bring to a fight (Inspire Fellows, SoS, Coda, Anthems, RK Fates stone, etc). We're in a state right now where physical mitigation debuff from bees can actually be useful, but in a raid setting hunters should still go fire oils to make use of LM/RK debuffs. When the level cap goes up, bears will *GREATLY* miss the yellow set bonus they have right now. On the other hand, the blue set bonus is unnecessary and the red set bonus is literally useless.

Don't get me started on the legacies either. Better off swapping to unimbued items before using any bear cooldowns or bees.

Actually my considerations go into the same direction. One major weakness I found when compring guardian and beorning tanking is the massive difference in damage Beorning get even with good gear. In terms of reworking suggestions I like something of the more open style better (like -> weakness: damage input in blue line -> traits/skills to decrease damage input like +mit/+p/e-chance or to increase self heal +inc heal or strongly increase self/group debuffs of the blue line or better emergency skills) than making just precise change request. And i know that Beornings will never (and shouldn't be?) guardians. They need their own specialties.

I think I can agree with many suggestions from this thread: "https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?661224-Beorning-Rework-Suggestion" - thanks for posting it.

I'll just list some things in blue line as they appear:

• A general aspect: Why on earth would a Beorning shape back to men form, hacking at some mobs or the air just to build up enough wrath to be able to tank again in bear form? This should be changed. It should be possible to stay one encounter in one form. It's something I'd like to see more in line with lore.
• blue line - wrath consumption to high - more skills to generate or less comsumption
• blue line - Recuperate is weak and it's "improvements" don't really offer an advantage
• In Harm's Way / All on the Line are expensive (5 points) compared to their benefit; it's a meh substitution for a ranged aggro grabbing skill and should be reworked instead, e.g. grabbing the aggro of specific ranged mobs
• Thickened Hide should be improved, captain/guardian/warden tanks all ave better emergency skills
• I alway wondered why "Crippling Stings" is yellow line and "sluggish stings" in blue line. bees should offer better benefits in tank spec (aggro improving AoE?)

This is surely in no way a complete or exhaustive list; that's why I had searched some thread like the one posted by Joedangod (thanks). I'll study his write up more carefully. So far I've only had time to browse somewhat fast through it and yet I found some suggestions I'd agree with and propably some I'd like to have solved in another way.

Kind regards and thanks for you answers

Rhunar(GRD) / Beonar(BEO)

PS: In yellow trait line I think there's one major disadvantage - otherwise I mostly agree with yellow line: Yello line requires WILL based equipment to heal well, at least jewelry. So if you have tank equip, dmg equip you have to acquire a third set of gear for healing. This should really work more might / fate based. Comparing this to will based classes this ist just meh.

[Casmond]

I need some feedback fellow bears. Blue tree Armor Crush skill. There are three tiers for trait points to be applied.

1. +5% incoming damage

2. +5% incoming damage

3. +10% incoming damage and 4 seconds off the cooldown

Ok, I might be a bit rusty with that math thing. But, using all my fingers, that seems to total up to 20% incoming damage. However, you're only getting 15% incoming damage.

[Estelrandir]

I need some feedback fellow bears. Blue tree Armor Crush skill. There are three tiers for trait points to be applied.

1. +5% incoming damage

2. +5% incoming damage

3. +10% incoming damage and 4 seconds off the cooldown

Ok, I might be a bit rusty with that math thing. But, using all my fingers, that seems to total up to 20% incoming damage. However, you're only getting 15% incoming damage.

First tier unlocks the possbility to debuff the enemy by increasing the incoming damage by +5%.

The second tier increases the debuff by adding next 5%, thus coming on +10% together.

The third tier increases the debuff from the 1st tier (+5%) by adding 10%, thus coming on +15% together.

[Pavlin]

I doubt that any off ssg crew read class froums but hey, hope dies last.
So i`l let that : https://imgur.com/a/SiykgLh here.
I hope the person who design beor wont have ANYTHING to do with incoming class changes.
Or atleast he lower the strenght of that pipewheed he smoke ....
Didnt want to #### myself to take screens from wrd and captain

I test tank lines on all 4 tank classes / champ not included/ and beor is WAY behind.
His self heal is lowest and with the longest skill animation. His HP pool is like elevator with + 20% only in bear from. Hes the only one who lack block. And his dmg is ten / yes 10/ times lower than my guard or warden.
About the skill cooldowns you can see from the link.

Please SSG i know that its beyond your knowledge to fix red line. The person who create that line fek it deep enough / sorry/ but you can atleast fix the blue line.
Make the dmg output equal to guard/ give us propper cd on skills/ ### is that 30 min cd on skill which heal for like 2k?!?
Make bear form permanent in blue/red line / make ferocious roar usable in bear form or atleast rename it to shout....
So far we are honey paws healer. Its that how you imagine beor ? Lore wise ? For real ....
I rly like the changes you did to red guard on last update. Its fun to play, his dmg is viable solo in all lines, and its far from op.
I do like the blue wrd changes /outside that nasty animation bug which i`m sure you will fix.
Captains are fine too /outside blue line.
Just dont screw it with beor and burg update!
Cheers.


Just loged in PTR to see how better we get afrer this change "Might is now a more prominent main stat for Beornings, granting Evade and Crit in exchange for less Resistance. Fate now grants less crit, and no longer grants Tactical Mastery.""
And there is a result : https://imgur.com/a/7qtlHXB
You guys made ONE change and you fek it up again ?
Pls dont make more .
I give up.

[Calenyavie]

I agree that beorning needs a lot of buffing, but man, it's really hard to understand your post. The spelling and grammar is nearly unreadable.

[Zahu]

I agree that beorning needs a lot of buffing, but man, it's really hard to understand your post. The spelling and grammar is nearly unreadable.

What he actually say is well known. Beorning is weak as tank (is ok as healer, and useless as dps) and needs a total revamp. Nothing new here, all these are well known. The other thing he say is that they announced a change in Beorning class (might will give evade and crit/fate will not give tactical mastery anymore), and according to the tooltip in BR this is not happening, so he bugs it, he said that in BR forum too (hoping at least someone will read there). I guess fate is not giving tactical mastery anymore, SSG are always better in nerfing even more this class and are unable to buff it.

Anyway, that is what he said. Problem is that people that care about the beorning and made so many posts with suggestions here, they have probably got tired of this messy class and left. This section of forums seems empty now, which is totally understandable. What is totally NON understandable is the mess SSG made again and again with this poor class, which I remind is a class that people have paid to obtain. A total lack of respect to their paying customers, I would say.

And what about the revamp of the beorning in 23.1 or 23.2 that they have announced (if that happens)?...Well, I see that as an apology for all these years of frustration they caused to us. An apology for all these years that we kept bagging our head to the desk trying to play the beorning. I remember all these times, as I remember all the joy beonring gave me when I was accomplishing something with him (doing t2c with bear was really an accomplishment and beleive me I have done a lot of them).

Unfortunately, for the majority of the good playes that played with bear and posted in these forums for years, this revamp comes really late..They are not here any more.