Thoughts on LM Class Changes?

[Aelir]

LM lost flanking and melee due to simplification. Worthless since HD simplification wave.
Beware what you wish for.

Flanking is not lost, still there.

But I agree against simplification. LM is advanced class.

Speaking as someone who cancelled subscription due to HD class changes on LM, I find the most recent balance pass by Vastin a big improvement in the right direction. Finally a dev who recognizes complexity of LM and takes measures against dumbing it down. Ending the incessant Boring Embers spam in favor of more diverse rotation has made red-line LM fun and interesting for me again. Before HD I traited "rainbow" (2 yellow, 2 blue, 3 red) and centered my gameplay around CC, but I can actually say that now I find red LM the most fun it's been since HD. That was a different dev who simplified LM in 2013.
I hope this is a first step in the promising direction of undoing some of those (boring) simplifications and restoring LM to its complex glory.

More work on blue line (and hopefully yellow) has already been mentioned as still to come. Including more tweaks/fixes. Don't give up on LM yet. It's a really good time to keep watching LM discussion/feedback threads, player voices have mattered MUCH more in this round of changes than in previous betas.

[XSR2]

LM is marked as a advanced class. I wouldn´t welcome simplification of the class.

The biggest complexity of the class lies within the yellow line. Thus just curious: How do you imagine these two yellow lines, one simple and one difficult? Introducing the forth line? Removing blue or red line? Something else?

I am not saying remove a line or add a line, rather introducing a reason for a group to use a blue LM. Such that a group can use a blue LM, a yellow LM or some combination of the two.
My thought is to have the yellow beacon of hope and air lore either in blue, or allowed in any spec, and even perhaps reducing the cooldown of beacon of hope, passively or by a trait. As well as other changes that will allow blue LMs to be more effective as off healers/ pot management. In contrast to yellow which could have better ability to debuff and crowd control.
As for the complexity, I think both lines should be complex, but that the LM's learning curve should be lower on the whole.

A friend of mine mentioned some time ago, that before HD their favorite aspect of the LM was the ability to act as a "Panic button" in the case that the group hit a hard spot. Being able to use Lightning storm to help clear up some of the adds, or a well timed beacon of hope.

[Birdflies]

I'm pretty happy with what they did to red line. It's the only line where I feel almost every point you spend, and every set bonus, is actually valuable. So kudos to the team on that.

Yellow line is odd. On the one hand it is clearly powerful, and useful in many group scenarios. However it does seem like I'm mostly speccing yellow just for a couple of abilities, especially for 12-mans. In AoM I spec yellow for the capstones...and maybe the improved Knowledge of Cures? All of the other valuable traits can be off-specced into, and that doesn't feel great. A lot of the more subtle aspects of a yellow LM are lost when fights are so long and involve so many people. For instance, Herb-lore can be a very strong skill in a 6-man. However, the 30s root isnt very long for a 12-man, especially since it cant be reliably refreshed (if you try to do it with Cracked Earth, the enemies will creep closer and be broken by AoE). The increased grace period on Bane Flare can be a total life saver in a 6-man, but 7s in AoM are barely relevant. It would be nice to have more traits that actually mattered in 12-mans when going yellow. Here are some suggestions I came up with:
1. Increased duration/reduced cooldown of SoP: Righteousness.
2. Increased duration/reduced cooldown of Sticky Tar.
3. Increased range on Water-lore.
4. Reduced cooldown of Call to the Valar.
5. Reduced cooldown of Dispel Corruption.
6. Knowledge of the Lore-master applies debuff even when used in combat.
7. A built in resistance debuff for debuffing skills (like the legacy).
8. Debuffs like Fire-lore or Frost-lore can be cast on the move.
9. And finally: MAKE POWER RELEVANT AGAIN.
Even adding a couple of those and making them yellow-exclusive would be really nice IMO.

Now for Blue line. This one is certainly the one that requires the most work. Honestly, I only use it when running a 3-man without a tank, and it feels pretty bad to have an entire line that is useful for just one scenario. Yes, it is a viable solo line, but not as much as it used to be. Pets haven't scaled well compared to how bloated our stats got, and blue ends up being sooo slow. I've seen some very good suggestions for blue, so I will only add that it would be cool to make it a viable buff line. I always thought the Feral buff should apply to the whole fellowship, and some others could be added on top.

[Kander]

I'm pretty happy with what they did to red line. It's the only line where I feel almost every point you spend, and every set bonus, is actually valuable. So kudos to the team on that.

Yellow line is odd. On the one hand it is clearly powerful, and useful in many group scenarios. However it does seem like I'm mostly speccing yellow just for a couple of abilities, especially for 12-mans. In AoM I spec yellow for the capstones...and maybe the improved Knowledge of Cures? All of the other valuable traits can be off-specced into, and that doesn't feel great. A lot of the more subtle aspects of a yellow LM are lost when fights are so long and involve so many people. For instance, Herb-lore can be a very strong skill in a 6-man. However, the 30s root isnt very long for a 12-man, especially since it cant be reliably refreshed (if you try to do it with Cracked Earth, the enemies will creep closer and be broken by AoE). The increased grace period on Bane Flare can be a total life saver in a 6-man, but 7s in AoM are barely relevant. It would be nice to have more traits that actually mattered in 12-mans when going yellow. Here are some suggestions I came up with:
1. Increased duration/reduced cooldown of SoP: Righteousness.
2. Increased duration/reduced cooldown of Sticky Tar.
3. Increased range on Water-lore.
4. Reduced cooldown of Call to the Valar.
5. Reduced cooldown of Dispel Corruption.
6. Knowledge of the Lore-master applies debuff even when used in combat.
7. A built in resistance debuff for debuffing skills (like the legacy).
8. Debuffs like Fire-lore or Frost-lore can be cast on the move.
9. And finally: MAKE POWER RELEVANT AGAIN.
Even adding a couple of those and making them yellow-exclusive would be really nice IMO.

Yellow line is pretty powerful debuffing line, not only capstones as you said, considering pet buffs universal among all lines:
1: Fire+ frost lore.
2: Doubled ancient craft magnitude and warding knowledge for more dps.
3: Fire+frost lore secondary effects (depending on which element you use on a debuffed enemy).
4: Longer stuns.
5: More powerful heals (you can easily heal 4k hps on a single target, which is helpful).

Although some traits could use a tweak, for example pleasant breeze should just be an always available skill, it's not that powerful, just make it available.
Fire+frost lore+wind lore+ blinding flash+ancient craft must be usable on the move. Rooting for 2-3 secs (frost lore) usually means more stress to the healer in positional fights such as twins in mordath.

[Birdflies]

Yellow line is pretty powerful debuffing line, not only capstones as you said, considering pet buffs universal among all lines:
1: Fire+ frost lore.
2: Doubled ancient craft magnitude and warding knowledge for more dps.
3: Fire+frost lore secondary effects (depending on which element you use on a debuffed enemy).
4: Longer stuns.
5: More powerful heals (you can easily heal 4k hps on a single target, which is helpful).

Although some traits could use a tweak, for example pleasant breeze should just be an always available skill, it's not that powerful, just make it available.
Fire+frost lore+wind lore+ blinding flash+ancient craft must be usable on the move. Rooting for 2-3 secs (frost lore) usually means more stress to the healer in positional fights such as twins in mordath.

Yeah, that's all nice, but it can all be off-specced into (except the double AC debuff, and Warding Lore which is only relevant for tactical damage, and we ussually just take hunters). That's exactly what I mean, with 69 points you can off-spec deep enough into yellow to get almost everything you need. It sucks to go into yellow and get a bunch of underpowered set bonuses just to get the capstones, which is the only thing I need to go main yellow for. The point of my suggestions was to make picking yellow more valuable. I mean, compare the set bonuses from the ones in red line, where I'd argue every one contributes to your dps in a non-neglegible way. That's what sucks, having to give up the ability to contribute dps, just for one valuable trait or two.