Stealth Healing Nerf in U23

[NavarreBlood]

I haven't seen any discussion on this topic and no mention in the release notes, so I've started this thread. First let's look at relative damage as measured on my 115 minstrel on bullroarer vs. live with same gear:

dps decreased by about 20%, but monster morale decreased by about 43%. So relative dps increased by about 40% - it takes fewer damage skills to kill a given monster. DPS is faster on BR than on live.

The healing side shows it is harder on bullroarer to fully heal a player than on live by quite a bit:

hps decreased by about 35% (tooltips don't reflect actual hps - if they did I would have a slight hps increase on bullroarer), but player morale decreased by about 10%, so relative hps decreased by about 28%. In other words it takes more healing skills to fully top out a player's morale. Stated another way, healing is slower on bullroarer than on live = stealth healing nerf.

Can anyone else post their test results or confirm/refute the numbers I've posted?

[Fraushgrish2]

I haven't seen any discussion on this topic and no mention in the release notes, so I've started this thread. First let's look at relative damage as measured on my 115 minstrel on bullroarer vs. live with same gear:

dps decreased by about 20%, but monster morale decreased by about 43%. So relative dps increased by about 40% - it takes fewer damage skills to kill a given monster. DPS is faster on BR than on live.

The healing side shows it is harder on bullroarer to fully heal a player than on live by quite a bit:

hps decreased by about 35% (tooltips don't reflect actual hps - if they did I would have a slight hps increase on bullroarer), but player morale decreased by about 10%, so relative hps decreased by about 28%. In other words it takes more healing skills to fully top out a player's morale. Stated another way, healing is slower on bullroarer than on live = stealth healing nerf.

Can anyone else post their test results or confirm/refute the numbers I've posted?

is this at 115 or 120?

[NavarreBlood]

is this at 115 or 120?

These tests were/are done at lvl 115. In the last test I didn't max out the healing legendary items. I'm going to max them out and test again - at 115.

The healing results after maxing out LIs are 31% less healing vs 10% less morale giving 23% overall less healing for a lvl 115 minstrel = substantial stealth healing nerf.

The tests were done with bolster spam only and no buffs, healing a single player in a fellow. Can someone else try to reproduce this as confirmation?

[BotLike]

Make sure you don't confuse yourself with cry of the chorus initial outgoing healing buff.

Healing seems fine to me. You actually get slightly more outgoing healing on level 115 with exact same gear on BR , like 4% difference or so on the outgoing healing panel..
I did some really quick tests but everything seems fine HPS wise.
The mastery-outgoing healing contribution seems to still be 1:1.
However , the cap on outgoing healing seems to be significantly lower.
That's why BR outgoing healing essences now give less rating than tactical mastery ones , while on live it's the other way around.

Problem with that is , the DPS version of will gear , will propably be better than the healing one , even when blue specced.

Can't test on level 120 because i have no comparison on live , not sure how the ratings behave there either but it looks alright so far.

Care to post some pics on what you think is wrong ?

[NavarreBlood]

Botlike - thanks for your reply. Based on what you said regarding tactical mastery / outgoing healing I re-did the test with my dps gear.

On BR the outgoing healing rating with my dps gear is 80% (vs my healing gear's 65.1%). I'm now doing more hps with my dps gear on BR vs live due to the greater contribution to healing from tactical mastery on BR.

So apparently this comes down to a change in the tactical mastery (and possibly outgoing healing) curve with U23. Tactical mastery has a bigger outgoing contribution on U23 than on live. To maintain the same level of healing you need a higher amount of tactical mastery in the gear.

BotLike: your gear probably has more tac mastery or outgoing healing than mine, so you didn't notice a drop in hps as I did.

So no hps nerf, just need to use more tac mastery / (outgoing healing - untested).

[Vastin]

I'll probably try to tweak that so that the healing contribution from OH is somewhat better and the contribution for Tac is not quite a good.

Don't mind tac providing a boost to hps, but I'd prefer that it remain the secondary source, with actual OH rating being the primary source. In terms of OVERALL hps, I don't really intend any significant change either way. I was figuring it would probably go up a little relative to player vitality at cap, but not much.

So I'll be taking a look at this.

-Vastin

[NavarreBlood]

I'll probably try to tweak that so that the healing contribution from OH is somewhat better and the contribution for Tac is not quite a good.

Don't mind tac providing a boost to hps, but I'd prefer that it remain the secondary source, with actual OH rating being the primary source. In terms of OVERALL hps, I don't really intend any significant change either way. I was figuring it would probably go up a little relative to player vitality at cap, but not much.

So I'll be taking a look at this.

-Vastin

Thanks for looking at this, Vastin.

And while you're looking at OH, would it be too much trouble to add a line item to the character panel showing summed OH and displaying Tactical Outgoing Healing % contribution (as is done with tactical mastery)? Thanks.

[Endoloose]

Thanks for looking at this, Vastin.

And while you're looking at OH, would it be too much trouble to add a line item to the character panel showing summed OH and displaying Tactical Outgoing Healing % contribution (as is done with tactical mastery)? Thanks.

+1 to that

As Botlike, my outgoing heal differs around 4% too in favour to Beta. Have equipped some OH essences, to get closer to reach 70% OH (i know, diminishing return, but really didn't need more of other stat) All on a unchanged lvl 115 toon.

[CaerArianrhod]

On BR the outgoing healing rating with my dps gear is 80% (vs my healing gear's 65.1%). I'm now doing more hps with my dps gear on BR vs live due to the greater contribution to healing from tactical mastery on BR.

Albeit that i think that the calculation of OH is somehow broken (see some numbers here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...99#post7844199) I rather would say, here it is something with your equipment.

All this is at level 115!
On live my OH is 79.4%, after log in on BR and just maxed out my LIs i got 79.7% (also all tooltips showed slightly higher numbers)

After LI Upgrade: Pic: tactical mastery 131.0%, OH: 79.7%




Here the difference prior LI upgrade (the lower row) and after LI upgrade (the upper row):

I'll probably try to tweak that so that the healing contribution from OH is somewhat better and the contribution for Tac is not quite a good.

Don't mind tac providing a boost to hps, but I'd prefer that it remain the secondary source, with actual OH rating being the primary source. In terms of OVERALL hps, I don't really intend any significant change either way. I was figuring it would probably go up a little relative to player vitality at cap, but not much.

So I'll be taking a look at this.

-Vastin

They are so many things broken with the minstrel.

[hanxcve]

I'll probably try to tweak that so that the healing contribution from OH is somewhat better and the contribution for Tac is not quite a good.

Don't mind tac providing a boost to hps, but I'd prefer that it remain the secondary source, with actual OH rating being the primary source. In terms of OVERALL hps, I don't really intend any significant change either way. I was figuring it would probably go up a little relative to player vitality at cap, but not much.

So I'll be taking a look at this.

-Vastin

There are plenty of other bugs to be fixed on minstrel, don't waste your time with OH as it promotes stacking the same stat and will make minstrel gearing less creative.

[Endoloose]

There are plenty of other bugs to be fixed on minstrel, don't waste your time with OH as it promotes stacking the same stat and will make minstrel gearing less creative.

hehe. Would say you can use dps gear with tact mastery as healing gear for best result of outgoing healing. Now i don't even have to plan for DPS swap pieces.. How creative is that ??
Was a nice addition that healing build got OH essences with 1.7 more OH than one mastery gave. Only problem were that a build with no OH essences, and 8 OH essences only differed very little.. ala why all equipped Vitality and some Critical rating. No need for using OH essences. That too leaves out a bit of creativity, but it's been like that for a very long time, really hope Vastin will make the healing numbers more reflective of actual outgoing healing rating.

[CaerArianrhod]

hehe. Would say you can use dps gear with tact mastery as healing gear for best result of outgoing healing. Now i don't even have to plan for DPS swap pieces.. How creative is that ??
Was a nice addition that healing build got OH essences with 1.7 more OH than one mastery gave. Only problem were that a build with no OH essences, and 8 OH essences only differed very little.. ala why all equipped Vitality and some Critical rating. No need for using OH essences. That too leaves out a bit of creativity, but it's been like that for a very long time, really hope Vastin will make the healing numbers more reflective of actual outgoing healing rating.

As it is on live OH essence vs. tact. mastery essence

What	contribution to outgoing healing %	diff. in healing % (effectiveness)
+5888 tact. mastery (essence)	+0.7%	+0.2%
+9918 out. heal (essence)	+1.1%	+0.4%

I will have to test this on BR when it is open again next week.
But the problem with the current BR release is, that the calculation for the OH essence seems somehow broken, so at the end the rating is lower than is should be. Lower rating results in lower effectiveness.

[NavarreBlood]

I'll probably try to tweak that so that the healing contribution from OH is somewhat better and the contribution for Tac is not quite a good.

Don't mind tac providing a boost to hps, but I'd prefer that it remain the secondary source, with actual OH rating being the primary source. In terms of OVERALL hps, I don't really intend any significant change either way. I was figuring it would probably go up a little relative to player vitality at cap, but not much.

So I'll be taking a look at this.

-Vastin

Vastin, I had a chance to log in and do some preliminary tests of healing on beta 4. My healing now seems to match the tooltip so that's a big improvement. I'm seeing a bit higher tactical outgoing healing % presumably from the increased strength of outgoing healing. Tactical mastery seems to give slightly less outgoing healing percent now. Thanks for following up on that and thanks for fixing outgoing healing Vastin. Maybe with U23 outgoing healing won't be viewed by healers as a (semi) useless gear stat anymore!