Mac Client Perfomance Issues

[StinkyGreene]

Things have just not been right lately with the Mac client on my computer and I am starting to lose faith that I can rectify the terrible performance issues I have been experiencing. I did a clean install of Mojave last week (previously Sierra) on the APFS and installed from this site the latest and "greatest" WINE client for Mac, including hi-res graphics. The only other things installed (using homebrew) are:

• mysql
• lighttpd
• nginx
• php 7.3
• AdoptOpenJDK 11
• jenv

I had one day post-install of acceptable LOTRO performance, meaning about 30 FPS, in 6 man Moria instances running very medium graphics windowed (fullscreen or windowed) with Specular Lighting and Post-processing turned off. I am not sure if I tried to tweak graphics setting, but at any rate, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th day after the clean install things rapidly degraded in the FPS realm. I see almost no difference now between Very Low and Very High graphics settings, both running around 4-9 FPS when battling worms in the Flaming Deeps. Fil Gashan with 5 other fellows runs around 2-4 FPS. Mind you this is the same whether running in very low or higher graphics settings. This computer is far from a high performance gaming machine, but has run LOTRO for 8 years at a playable framerate. Here are the specs:

• Mid-2012 Macbook Pro (non-retina unibody)
• 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 RAM
• 2.7 GHz Intel Core i7 (Quad core)
• NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1GB Vram
• Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB
• 1 TB Eluktronics SSD (6 GB/s)
• 200 MB/s internet connection

I have fiddled around lately with unchecking "Use Hi-Res Graphics", Detect Optimal Settings (which defaults to "Very High" on this machine), and a bunch of other settings to no avail. I have noticed wine-preloader64 runs at approximately 800% CPU during gameplay. Sometimes it runs at 130% which seems to be in the realm of reasonableness. I feel like something is not working right, like some setting is not taking, or wine is not working right. I do not have WINE installed on this machine (other than the built-in LOTRO WINE), and was wondering if installing wine-stable would in anyway help, or if LOTRO would just ignore that. Maybe Mojave just doesn't support nVidia drivers (which could very well be the case).

Another thing that is mysterious to me is the loss of plugin settings randomly. A couple of times, I have had to reconfigure settings in Buff Bars on characters, because the settings reset themselves seemingly randomly (perhaps a permission issue).

What it comes down to is that there is no real support for this client and SSG has put the impetus on the users to figure out exactly all the problems associated with their client. It would be wonderful to have a concise troubleshooting guide, more so than the great advice people have posted already on the forums, to nail down typical problems going on with the Mac client.

Cheers everyone

[Windhorse73]

Yep.

I gotta say that I was running everything fine on my Mac air until update 24 and now using WINE client.

Game experience is ####. Laggy. Slow. And the lack of caring for mac user experience is a bit off-putting.

On top of that, this WINE client is still going to become obsolete and unsupported.... so not sure what the point of that is.

It's a real shame, because I was really enjoying this game, and have done for a couple of years. I am looking elsewhere to get my gaming fix.

It would be great if SSG could maybe pay attention to this.

[remilege]

Has there been a solution to the performances issues since ? I've installed the game on my old laptop, just for comparison, and it has better performances than on my Imac. I'm greatly disappointed.

Another little problem I have with the new client (I can't post a new thread yet, so sorry to pollute this thread with my question):

I play with a Razor Naga Mouse (12 keys) and the game recognises the 12 keys, but only "raw":
i.e. when I press "1" it works, but it doesn't work when I press "ctrl+1" or "alt+1". It reacts as if I would press only "1". I suppose it may be a driver issue but how to install Razor drivers on wine ?! I'm clueless. I can't use bar #2 and above with keybindings. Quite annoying. (Note: "ctrl+1" works fine on the keyboard).

[remilege]

I play with a Razor Naga Mouse (12 keys) and the game recognises the 12 keys, but only "raw":
i.e. when I press "1" it works, but it doesn't work when I press "ctrl+1" or "alt+1". It reacts as if I would press only "1". I suppose it may be a driver issue but how to install Razor drivers on wine ?! I'm clueless. I can't use bar #2 and above with keybindings. Quite annoying. (Note: "ctrl+1" works fine on the keyboard).

I got an "answer" here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...s-(Razer-Naga)

So many issues with the new mac client ...

[ziggy29]

Has there been a solution to the performances issues since ? I've installed the game on my old laptop, just for comparison, and it has better performances than on my Imac. I'm greatly disappointed.

Another little problem I have with the new client (I can't post a new thread yet, so sorry to pollute this thread with my question):

I play with a Razor Naga Mouse (12 keys) and the game recognises the 12 keys, but only "raw":
i.e. when I press "1" it works, but it doesn't work when I press "ctrl+1" or "alt+1". It reacts as if I would press only "1". I suppose it may be a driver issue but how to install Razor drivers on wine ?! I'm clueless. I can't use bar #2 and above with keybindings. Quite annoying. (Note: "ctrl+1" works fine on the keyboard).

I have discovered a little more information that *may* help someone a little more savvy with wine, and with X11 (XQuartz) on the Mac.

I downloaded and installed XQuartz, which is the successor to X11 on Mac systems. I started it, opened an XTerm and issued the "xev" command which allows you to see what the system thinks is being pressed and released.

If you type control-1 entirely on the keyboard, you see four events (the order is important):

* Control pressed
* 1 pressed
* 1 released
* Control released

The system recognizes that Control and 1 are pressed at the same time -- that Control is still pressed when the '1' key is pressed, so it can properly execute the Ctrl-1 combo keystroke.

With a Razer Naga mouse, I do the same (Control from the keyboard, '1' from the side button of the Naga) and the output of xev is:

* Control pressed
* Control released
* 1 pressed
* 1 released

Similar things happen with 'alt' and Shift.

So it's clear to me that when you enter one of the side buttons on the Naga, the system thinks the modifier key has been released before the side button is pressed. So in the example above, the system will think you are always pressing just '1' on the Naga even with a modifier also pressed, but NOT when you use the numeric keys on the keyboard.

In fact, the Naga seems to always issue a 'KeyRelease' event to any other buttons being held down when it registers that a side button has been pressed. Any 'KeyPress' event using those side buttons triggers a 'KeyRelease' on any other keys that might still be pressed. In fact, if you hold the '1' key on the Naga down by itself, it does repeat, but it shows a press-release-press-release-press-release pattern, not a lot of presses followed by one release (which is what should happen).

So if anyone knows more about X11 and Wine and keymappings, maybe we can figure out a workaround? To me it looks like a Razer problem, based on what events it's sending to the system as its buttons are pressed.

[AaronIU]

I have discovered a little more information that *may* help someone a little more savvy with wine, and with X11 (XQuartz) on the Mac.

I downloaded and installed XQuartz, which is the successor to X11 on Mac systems. I started it, opened an XTerm and issued the "xev" command which allows you to see what the system thinks is being pressed and released.

If you type control-1 entirely on the keyboard, you see four events (the order is important):

* Control pressed
* 1 pressed
* 1 released
* Control released

The system recognizes that Control and 1 are pressed at the same time -- that Control is still pressed when the '1' key is pressed, so it can properly execute the Ctrl-1 combo keystroke.

With a Razer Naga mouse, I do the same (Control from the keyboard, '1' from the side button of the Naga) and the output of xev is:

* Control pressed
* Control released
* 1 pressed
* 1 released

Similar things happen with 'alt' and Shift.

So it's clear to me that when you enter one of the side buttons on the Naga, the system thinks the modifier key has been released before the side button is pressed. So in the example above, the system will think you are always pressing just '1' on the Naga even with a modifier also pressed, but NOT when you use the numeric keys on the keyboard.

In fact, the Naga seems to always issue a 'KeyRelease' event to any other buttons being held down when it registers that a side button has been pressed. Any 'KeyPress' event using those side buttons triggers a 'KeyRelease' on any other keys that might still be pressed. In fact, if you hold the '1' key on the Naga down by itself, it does repeat, but it shows a press-release-press-release-press-release pattern, not a lot of presses followed by one release (which is what should happen).

So if anyone knows more about X11 and Wine and keymappings, maybe we can figure out a workaround? To me it looks like a Razer problem, based on what events it's sending to the system as its buttons are pressed.

So yes, there's a reason for this and it's not apparent based on how your setting up key stroke logs. Say you made a macro on Naga that was simply "Shift down, 1 down, 1 up, Shift up" and the associated key press delays you would see what is similar to the first log. Now, the reason you see the second is because Wine is allocating the Naga side buttons as a secondary keyboard, not a mouse. It's able to receive input from a single keyed source at a time, so when you press Shift on the keyboard, then you press 1 on the mouse, it actually turns off the keyboard as an input (hence why the shift key release) then turns on the Naga as the primary keyboard and the subsequent key strokes there. Say if you created a macro that as as simple as 1,2,3,4,5,6 then looped it endlessly, hold down the W (movement) key and start this simple macro. You will stop movement entirely while this macro cycles because Wine allocates a single keyed input device at once, not like the native client that could receive the input from both the Naga and the Keyboard at the exact same time. If you use a Naga on Windows the side keyboard is in device manager as a keyboard, Wine sees it the same way (since it's working in a windows environment) but can't manage both the keyboard AND the naga simultaneously. You can use the left, right, scroll, and top buttons because those are managed as a mouse device, but not the side.

Hope that helps with your understanding.. but not sure if you can move forward with how WINE manages devices.

[SavinDwarf]

I don't profess to be an expert on the MAC environment. However, out of interest, are you sure the issue is to do with the MAC environment or could the performance issues be related to a slowdown in server responses? The reason I mention this is that some of us have been seeing issues in the last 2-3 weeks. The issues tend to get worse as we approach the weekly server reboot and then after the reboot they are better again.

Just to state the obvious (I'm sure you are well aware of this)

1) Computer performance issues that are caused by the local environment of the computer
- a) Memory swapping to page files on disk.
- b) Fragmented files being accessed that cause additional physical reads and hence slow downs.
- c) CPU usage being very high and large queues of tasks waiting to execute
- d) GPU processes being transferred to CPU processes because the GPU cannot handle the load by itself.
- e) Lost memory blocks slowly reducing available memory
- f) Incorrect management of thread queues leading to tasks taking a long time to be processed - this can becaused by dead processes that are still in the processing queue.
- g) Disk Access when page files are exhausted -- and others of course

2) Applications issues can also be caused by:
- a) Waiting for server transactions to be sent to the local PC
- b) Network issues such as increased propagation delays
- c) lost packets causing the need for retransmissions
- d) and a few more...

So, what appears as slow refreshing of images on the screen could actually be slow transmission of the information to know what to change, and this could be caused by an overloaded server, or a problem in a particular zone etc.

I mention all this claptrap just in case you are searching for a solution to a problem that might not exist on your local PC (or only partially exists on the PC).

Hoepfully this info might help - at least its another perspective -- or it could just be the ramblings of an overly stupid small dwarf LOL

[ziggy29]

So yes, there's a reason for this and it's not apparent based on how your setting up key stroke logs. Say you made a macro on Naga that was simply "Shift down, 1 down, 1 up, Shift up" and the associated key press delays you would see what is similar to the first log. Now, the reason you see the second is because Wine is allocating the Naga side buttons as a secondary keyboard, not a mouse. It's able to receive input from a single keyed source at a time, so when you press Shift on the keyboard, then you press 1 on the mouse, it actually turns off the keyboard as an input (hence why the shift key release) then turns on the Naga as the primary keyboard and the subsequent key strokes there. Say if you created a macro that as as simple as 1,2,3,4,5,6 then looped it endlessly, hold down the W (movement) key and start this simple macro. You will stop movement entirely while this macro cycles because Wine allocates a single keyed input device at once, not like the native client that could receive the input from both the Naga and the Keyboard at the exact same time. If you use a Naga on Windows the side keyboard is in device manager as a keyboard, Wine sees it the same way (since it's working in a windows environment) but can't manage both the keyboard AND the naga simultaneously. You can use the left, right, scroll, and top buttons because those are managed as a mouse device, but not the side.

Hope that helps with your understanding.. but not sure if you can move forward with how WINE manages devices.

Actually, I observe the same behavior in WINE with the Mac OS itself. At least with the Naga. Whenever you hit (say) Ctrl-5, the behavior is that the system thinks the control key was released just before the '5' was pressed.

The Logitech G600 does not do this; I just confirmed it. It works the way we expect. I think it's a Razer issue specifically, not an OS issue or a LOTRO issue. It looks like the Logitech software takes care of this in a way the Razer software does not. I assume this because when I plugged in the G600 it behaved like the Naga did *until* I installed the Logitech software, which "fixed" it.

[ziggy29]

And for what it's worth, downloading and installing "Karabiner Elements" also fixed the problem for me on the Naga.

[Echoweaver]

This seems like stuff that ought to be compiled into a supplemental Mac FAQ.

Not sure I'm volunteering though. I'm not terribly organized :-/