Bullroarer Update 24.3 - Preview #1

[Laurelinarien]

They are in the preview, icpr is gone from the hunter pieces, which is why i made the post.

Makes sense why I missed it then.. hunter wasn't a class I copied coz I don't play it. As far as mini & beorn are concerned, no changes that I could spot.

[JeanLucRicart]

New race, one more alt

Nice!

[Kaeneth]

I think they look pretty good myself, especially for their first beta. The new beards and hairstyles are cool, and the textures used for them look much better than some other hair textures in game. It was nice to see that they actually did a lot of new hairstyles and beards. I was curious as to if we would see new ones, or just recycled ones from the normal dwarf since the majority of the high elf's hair is recycled from men and elves with a couple exceptions. I didn't even notice any clipping issues or anything, and high elves have had a handful since launch. So it does seem like they put some time into polishing the new hair/beards, moreso than they did for high elves in any case. They also seem to have a different body shape than the normal dwarves. They don't seem to be quite as round, but are rather tapered. I like that better myself. The running and jumping animations are new, so that's nice. The intro is fitting and fun to play through as well I think, and transitions well into the main story a bit better than the high elf's does in my opinion.

They also get a unique set of armor, seems to be different depending on what armor type your class wears, along with a unique axe. Those are also nice touches that give the race some flavor.

The voice seems to be identical to normal dwarves, however that could change as the high elf didn't get their unique voices until a couple betas in or so if I remember correctly. So I'll stay tuned for that. Burglar also fits well for the background of these dwarves. A lot of people wanted captains, but I don't see how that makes sense for a slave race of dwarves. Neither would have the warden as that kind of military training would never have been something they had access to. Then obviously not LM because why would you spend time educating slaves with information that wouldn't advance your goals? So personally I'm fine with the classes they're given access to. They make the most sense in my opinion.

New races are welcome in my book. Even just variants such as these guys and the high elves add flavor to the game and can really just *make* characters for some people, even if they aren't game changing from a gameplay perspective. So I like what we've seen so far and I look forward to how they progress over the course of the betas. I think they are giving more polishing than the high elf got which is a good sign, but it does make me wish they'd go back and give them the same level of love by fixing their clipping hairstyles and adding more new ones. Anyways, I don't have much bad to say about these dwarves so far based on what we've seen.

[Brethwyn_EU]

I liked the intro. Stout-axes seem fun so far, just wish there was a bit more to it, like a new class. I already have all classes leveled up quite a bit, so I'm not sure if I ever will bother with yet another one. But I will buy it for sure.

Why is it that Stout-axes can select female characters yet "regular" dwarves can't? I don't mind Dwarves getting a female option, but.. they're the same race, Stout-axe and "regular" Dwarf. They can't be treated differently. It's not like Sauron made female Dwarves in Mordor, twisted in form. Or did he...?

And another thing: Where are we story-wise? Cause the Stout-axes witnessed the fall of Barad-Dur.. yet we are in Ered Luin preparing for the fellowship to eventually set out to Rivendell! Feels backwards. Or am I getting something wrong...?

[LuckyShot]

For those wondering about passives and racials for Stout Axes:

Passives:



Racials:



Skill Tooltips:



Special Animation:

When jumping from a reasonable height the stout-axe lands with a "thump" sound and unsettles dust. Pretty cool animation.

Wait, so there's a passive that gives vitality, another passive that takes vitality away, & yet a racial that gives vitality, for a combined +23. A question for SSG: Does the right hand know what the left hand is doing?

[cdq1958]

Tolkien said they are very similar in appearance, however, no suggestion is ever made about them being very similar in personality, so I would expect some style differences with the way they let their hair/beards grow and the clothes that they wear. They probably should have the option to wear makeup as well.

No. He specifically said that the differences were so subtle that non-Dwarves could not tell them apart, especially when the females were forced from their homes and that they didn't adventure, like the males did. Personality differences that you mention can't, in my opinion, be that subtle. Humans, maybe, wouldn't have picked up on them, though Elves likely would have; given the time at their disposal. Again, my opinion based on the Professor's own words.

[Phantion]

I liked the intro. Stout-axes seem fun so far, just wish there was a bit more to it, like a new class. I already have all classes leveled up quite a bit, so I'm not sure if I ever will bother with yet another one. But I will buy it for sure.

Why is it that Stout-axes can select female characters yet "regular" dwarves can't? I don't mind Dwarves getting a female option, but.. they're the same race, Stout-axe and "regular" Dwarf. They can't be treated differently. It's not like Sauron made female Dwarves in Mordor, twisted in form. Or did he...?

And another thing: Where are we story-wise? Cause the Stout-axes witnessed the fall of Barad-Dur.. yet we are in Ered Luin preparing for the fellowship to eventually set out to Rivendell! Feels backwards. Or am I getting something wrong...?

SPOILERS below:









Story-wise, we are in between Bilbo's Birthday party and Gandalf's return to the Shire to warn Frodo about the Ring- within that 17 year gap (a neat prelude to the fan-made short film, "The Hunt for Gollum," for example- its probably on youtube).

The story takes place directly at the end of Gollum's captivity in Barad-dur- so, this is -after- Gollum, drawn by his desire for the Ring, left the Misties and the Vales behind and made his way all the way down to Mordor (and I can't quite recall whether he meets Shelob on the way -into- Mordor or on the way -out- of Mordor; somewhere in there). Gollum was captured, tormented (by Sauron himself and presumably by the Mouth), and it was from this torment that Sauron learned of the Shire and of the name "Baggins."

Now, the Stout-Axes are currently enslaved laborers in Barad-dur, and that's where -our- tale begins. With news of the release of a prisoner (Gollum), the Stout-Axes decided to attempt some chaos to try to escape. After all, as Gandalf tells the Fellowship far later, "Those who enter the Dark Tower never return," meaning that, most of the time, Sauron never lets anyone go free. So, the release of Gollum is a "big deal" because it usually -never- happens; so, the Stout-Axes have their brief rebellion. It's clear that its not ALL of the Stout-Axes who take part in this, and I'd presume a bunch of them are still at Lughash (or we'd never meet any of them in Dor Amarth otherwise).

Player Character Stout-Axe must fight Gollum briefly, who gets in the way, and fight a tough Uruk and escape. Shagrat also has a lovely cameo; so does Zoreth, who is in charge of the Stout-Axes.

But then, when we "escape," the reason we end-up in Ered Luin is because, as it turns out, our Player Character Stout-Axe was -telling the story- of his escape to the Dourhands, pretty much glossing-over vast amounts of terrain and such; we at least know that Dwarves are hardy travelers and can endure long journeys, and since the Stout-Axes know hardship, that makes sense- except for my following constructive criticism's below-


So, we are in Barad-dur -before- its downfall. This is why there are such differences in the interior spaces.



I do have three constructive criticism's for an otherwise amazing narrative, for SSG:

1. I really wish we could have had that conversation between the Mouth of Sauron / Dulgabeth, the Witch King, and Player that was teased and cut-off by the rebellion. I would have loved to have to escape from the Witch-King (like certain Dwarves fleeing the Balrog in a certain session play and also like the mammoths in Ost Dunhoth with some more... SUSPENSE!), THEN deal with Gollum and so on (the clamor from the brief revolt could interrupt the conversation). I get why Minas Morgul is saved for the expansion- that's fine. But gosh, what a tease!!!

2. I really don't like the instance ending where it does. I know it's an Intro- but still... this was our sole opportunity to see: Barad-dur with the fiery Eye on top (as the game represents it in other art)!!! I would at least have wanted to flee across the bridge over the Mordath lava flow and be able to catch a glimpse of pre-Fall Barad-dur from the outside!!! And also, MOUNT DOOM pre-Eruption!!! I know it would take some more graphics work, but... it would be TOTALLY WORTH IT!!! (caps always for emphasis here, not yelling).


3. This is extremely important, and lore-wise, I would say that it MUST be addressed. How, precisely, did our Stout-Axe characters -escape from Mordor itself-?


I think we need another sequence here- because there's NO lore reasonable way for it to work without actually playing it out. We have a Black Gate sealing Udun; so, did we sneak-through in disguise while an army went-through? If so, I'd like to see and do that, or at least let it be -said- later to the Dourhands in quest-text or something. But its a BIG DEAL to ESCAPE from MORDOR!!! Dare I revive the meme: "One does not simply walk into Mordor!"

Well, I'll invert the meme: "One does not simply walk out of Mordor!"

Of course, the other question is whether the Stout-Axe had to escape via the Tunnel and somehow make it past Cirith Ungol, which would be its own mess, never-mind the Stairs and the Morgul Vale and entering Gondor.



Now, if I had to -guess,- I'd say the Player Character Stout-Axe, in disguise as an Orc, made her/his way out through Udun. But think of all the check-point's and various encounters on the road our Stout-Axe would have to deal with. The Stout-Axe would have to make it past Lughash, for one, without being seen by other Stout-Axes (or Zoreth in pursuit), perhaps using some of those boulders for cover (I'll assume Dor Amarth wasn't yet broken by the lava flows since Orodruin is yet to erupt). Then our Stout-Axe could, in theory, sneak along the Mountains of Ash to by-pass those Uruk camps we encounter later (which are dailies areas at Orodruin's northwest). But the next main obstacle would be that fortress guarding the entrance to Dor Amarth from Udun (Carach Angren?). The Stout-Axe, probably, like Frodo and Sam, would have to keep-up that Orc disguise and march in line. But then, of course, there's all of Udun to get-through, presumably marching toward the Black Gate. Then, there's getting -through- the Black Gate and out into the Wastes. Then, our Stout-Axe would have to escape from marching-line without being noticed, get farther away, shed his Orc gear, and travel once more as a Dwarf- especially before getting spied by a ranger of Ithilien and shot-down with arrows.

I don't need the full story taking us -from- Mordor to Ered Luin, but I very much -need- something more, as a player, when it comes to escaping the most impregnable, Black Land in all of Middle-earth. I'd prefer if that's not left up to the imagination because, well, its a bit of a stretch unless its played-out specifically. There's just so many points in our Stout-Axe's journey where things could go horribly wrong, and even if its just taking snippets of fading into black and encountering some small things, its no small feat to escape from Mordor.

In short: please make us go -all the way-. Not directly through the landscape, but certainly phasing us through some key check-points and having to sneak past guards and what-not would be very helpful. Even if its just a sequence near the Black Gate, where we could assume we've been doing this sort of thing the whole time and getting away with it, it just would be crucially important to -show us how- we escaped from Mordor in this way. Yes, escaping Barad-dur itself is a near-impossible feat; but escaping Mordor itself beyond it is a whole other feat to achieve. It's a good opportunity to use the "eyes" like from that treasure quest in Evendim. It's also a good opportunity to show us really escaping and being able to then, with far less a stretch of the imagination, make our way to Eriador. It would also make the transition from Mordor to Ered Luin make far more sense; the mind's eye can fill-in the blanks once we've... well, reached grassy plains!


After all, once we've escaped from Mordor, it's not a stretch for our Stout-Axe to cross the Anduin (perhaps via one of the Undeep's), Rohan (that has plenty of empty spaces), go through the Gap, and head-up the Greenway to the East-West Road, and pass as a rough Dwarven trader going through the Shire to Ered Luin. Saruman hasn't declared his evil intentions yet- so that's far more believable to me for our Dwarf to do.

4. One more little thing to address: How our Dwarf knew where to go- and why our Dwarf went to Ered Luin rather than Erebor- especially if our Dwarf hadn't heard of either due to captivity in Mordor. It would really help if our Dwarf heard of the word "Shire" out of Gollum and decided to track it down out of curiosity- and then, perhaps, we can assume that our Dwarf would have then learned about Ered Luin once making her/his way to Eriador.

[LotroVidz]

+Really nice hairstyle and beard options
+Awesome textures and lightings on new beards/hairstyles, they look so refreshing than the horrible hairstyles for men/elves.
+Good looking jump animations even though it need some polish
+Running animations look good, but please make it look less like the character is sliding on the ground while running. It's hard to describe, but maybe the animation isn't in sync with how fast the character is moving.
+Cloak animates really nice while running, not like the stiff cloak animation on high elves.
+Nice looking faces, it actually changes the face not only the nose!

-Missing sound and animations on some burglar skills.

With the new awesome graphical detail on the hairstyles and beards, please make it the same quality for all races!

[Elmagor]

It's funny what we always sure what Mordor don't have any dwarfs. And now Gollum seen them... but he never tells about it

[Thodorin]

I hope the translation of the new race name into German will be reconsidered. "Kühnaxt-Zwerg" is not as impressive as the Mordor translation "Stark-Axt Zwerg".


The purpose of the new additional weapon slots in the equipment and outfit is unclear.

[Cordovan]

Could we get some clarification here?

I copied my Ithil lvl caps to BR but all the gear remains the same (ToO sets & jewellery, GR pieces, LIs, even quest rewards and loot from Isen instances).

Can we get pointed in the right direction??

On another note, Stout-axes look SO neat! Video was such a tease, can't wait to watch the finished one.

The info I have is that weapons and shields were updated in the Bonevales, Carreglyn, and Dunbog regions.

[mmdur1]

I really wish you would reconsider giving stout axes a racial fire damage buff - even though it is small, it is going to drive most raiders to switch to stout axe for RKs, and I, for one, REALLY don't want to do that.

[LotroVidz]

The info I have is that weapons and shields were updated in the Bonevales, Carreglyn, and Dunbog regions.

Okay, could you tell the devs to make T2 stuff better than some vendor stuff.. People need good stuff to run instances, why run a T2 instance and put effort into it when they can buy a better piece at a vendor for 2g..

[Laurelinarien]

The info I have is that weapons and shields were updated in the Bonevales, Carreglyn, and Dunbog regions.

Thank you, Cord!

So, changes so far involve only a few quest rewards. Here's hoping the Fix-it Felix sweeps thru the whole expansion gear

[LotroVidz]

Thank you, Cord!

So, changes so far involve only a few quest rewards. Here's hoping the Fix-it Felix sweeps thru the whole expansion gear

Yeah, why are they even bothering with the quest gear? It's powerful as it is. The instance gear, however, most pieces are weaker than quest and vendor gear. Such a disappointment.

[gildhur]

Wait, so there's a passive that gives vitality, another passive that takes vitality away, & yet a racial that gives vitality, for a combined +23. A question for SSG: Does the right hand know what the left hand is doing?

All races have a -Stat passive and a +Stat trait to make up for it. Hobbits have -Might inherently but a +Might slottable trait.

The only bug here IMO is that Unyielding Will gives +Vit. It should be just +Will and +Mit.

[auximenes]

SPOILERS below:

Thanks for the write-up.

[Nanganark]

The Fight Animations by the Stout-axe Dwarf as a Burglar does not work so good; flashing blade goes through without harm.
mercy shock works but the animation is not there.
On Bullroarer it would be good when we can buy Rimes of the Anvil, Artifacts of the Vales, Dwarf Shards and the Essences from Teir 1,2,3 and Teir 4.
The shirtless bodysuit works with the Stout-axe Dwarf not.
current can the Stout-axe Dwarf do not accept any quest from Kehleyr in the tavern and also other quests that are missing.

[pinlu]

wow. The passives racials look very interesting,Crafting alts and rune keepers. On the flip side, the racial skills look very poor. Why have a 75% block chance when you can only have a Guardian? Warden or Cappy atleast need to be added for this racial to be in any way needed or useful, because unlike race of elf the skill provides 0 use to DPS classes, where elfs can press the oh s*t button, and Parry alot of attacks for 10seconds, the dwarves are sat there with their racial skill that dosent even help them.The 1% shadow mitigation is pretty poor, 1% really isnt worth it. Maybe if it was 5% TACTICAL mitigation, it might be worth some use, because atleast at 120 cap, there is no need for shadow mitigation, and definitely not 1% of it. Unless there is a use for shadow mitigation in the future, i dont see why you would roll a stout axe . Its pro rune keepers and crafting alts, but Really some useless racial skills. Compared to current dwarfs, they have no benefits to reroll other than rune keeper, because i think most guardians would rather the vitality buff and the -50% inc dmg for 10s than block chance
The animations etc seem good, but im not that fussed about how a skill animates so maybe other people would see differently to me. Would be cool to see bare chest working though
:edit: It says in the tooltip works for all without shield. has anyone tested that to see if its working?

For those wondering about passives and racials for Stout Axes:


Racials:



Skill Tooltips:



Special Animation:

When jumping from a reasonable height the stout-axe lands with a "thump" sound and unsettles dust. Pretty cool animation.

[Mukor]

I really wish you would reconsider giving stout axes a racial fire damage buff - even though it is small, it is going to drive most raiders to switch to stout axe for RKs, and I, for one, REALLY don't want to do that.

This bonuses are ignorable. the difference between an human and a elf hunter isn´t this big that only elfhunters would be taken So it won´t matter for rks unless you´re a minmaxer.
Then the same would count for burgs omg they would mix 1% dggerdmg if they aren´t a stout.

[Mukor]

I really wish you would reconsider giving stout axes a racial fire damage buff - even though it is small, it is going to drive most raiders to switch to stout axe for RKs, and I, for one, REALLY don't want to do that.

wow. The passives racials look very interesting,Crafting alts and rune keepers. On the flip side, the racial skills look very poor. Why have a 75% block chance when you can only have a Guardian? Warden or Cappy atleast need to be added for this racial to be in any way needed or useful, because unlike race of elf the skill provides 0 use to DPS classes, where elfs can press the oh s*t button, and Parry alot of attacks for 10seconds, the dwarves are sat there with their racial skill that dosent even help them.The 1% shadow mitigation is pretty poor, 1% really isnt worth it. Maybe if it was 5% TACTICAL mitigation, it might be worth some use, because atleast at 120 cap, there is no need for shadow mitigation, and definitely not 1% of it. Unless there is a use for shadow mitigation in the future, i dont see why you would roll a stout axe . Its pro rune keepers and crafting alts, but Really some useless racial skills. Compared to current dwarfs, they have no benefits to reroll other than rune keeper, because i think most guardians would rather the vitality buff and the -50% inc dmg for 10s than block chance
The animations etc seem good, but im not that fussed about how a skill animates so maybe other people would see differently to me. Would be cool to see bare chest working though
:edit: It says in the tooltip works for all without shield. has anyone tested that to see if its working?

Read the skill all stouts can block using this panic theay don´t have to wear a shield.
More important is the question if non shield wearer only have 75% blockchance using this skill or 75% + x from might.

[Ariwen55]

Hello, The intro was pretty fun for the Stout-Axes but the boss towards the end, if you attack him, you are probably going to die, it was kind of unexpected but, i revived and let the NPCs finish him. About the only negative thing for the intro that i noticed. Some rats were up on top of things like the forge places but its not a major issue cause you probably wont be killing that one lol. When i got out the intro after checking the racial traits next thing i checked was the bare chest, it doesnt work. Will that be implemented for stouts to or stay just dwarfs? Im hoping it will be fixed and become a thing for Stouts. Also the females look the same as the males not sure if thats intended or not lol. The hair and facial stuff is pretty neat tho. Looking forward to see what else is going to be introduced, like the race* change jawn i heard about which guessing that will come later in next preview or 2.

I truly liked the way Dis looked as a female dwarf, not everyone agrees I know. Yet she wasn't totally female in look. the long hair wrapped around her neck and the less facial hair were the biggest difference I liked.
The female does not have to have boobs like females of other races.
Yet I would ask for a little more differences in the females and males of the Stout Axes.
I say no to bare chested Stout Axes, since they will be females in that races!

I'm loving how smoothly the Stout axes movements are, very well done.
also loved the intro, yes I survived

Again I reiterate Not everyone agrees that the female dwarf should look different, but I see not even subtle difference in the male and female Stout Axes!

Great Job so far Developers!

[J-Moneyforever]

PvMP

• High Elves now drop Elf-ears.
• The Monster Play Character Selection screen has been updated with a more modern look.

Good to see PvmP development is alive and well.... LOL

[Urundus]

PvMP

• High Elves now drop Elf-ears.
• The Monster Play Character Selection screen has been updated with a more modern look.

In case anyone wants to see the changes side-by-side.



I'm going to be honest, I'd still prefer the old UI over the new one. It was fine and looked somewhat unique. If anything, I'd rather have had a new background since that hasn't ever changed and portrays a very old version of gramsfoot. Another heavily requested thing is having equipped skins show up on the character selection instead of the plain default skin.
But since this is most likely going to go live any ways, I'm going to give some feedback on it since some things stand out to me.

Character selection panel (left side):
The individual class buttons seem rather cramped. There's so much space between the defiler and the delete button that can be used. (And before anyone starts speculating, no, it doesn't seem like another button will fit in between) Maybe slightly space the buttons out a bit more? Or decrease the height of the background panel so that the delete button will be closer to the defiler button?
Overall I think the new class icons are an improvement, other than them very much resembling a screenshot of the head taken from the character selection window.

Options and other stuff panel (right side):
What instantly stands out to me is the Free People button. It doesn't really fit in being a different style. If we compare this how the Monster Play button is done on the freepside character selection we can see that it follows the same style, just the colour differs. It would probably look a lot better if the button followed the style of the other monster player buttons, but only the colour being different, blue in this case.



Another thing is the Enter Monster Play button. On freepside, when you put your mouse over the button, the ring will light up and do this little animation. On creepside nothing happens. I'm not sure if this is intended or not, but it makes the ring look like a static image just layered on top.

Honestly, this whole change leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth. I understand that art is an entirely different department and has nothing to do with PvP development. But PvP hasn't seen updates in many many years. Freeps are now more OP than ever before and warleader and reaver are still a hot mess. The new UI could be considered an update related to PvP and it's something no one ever asked for. PvP doesn't need much, but it's been systematically ignored for a very long time. And if we do get changes it's something that wasn't needed and no one asked for either e.g. the bird and squirrel at orc camp, more rocks at glc, the nerf to creeps' battlefield promotions and finesse becoming a trait, and so on.

[Doublecha]

No Crossbow damage bonus