Not sure there's any plans to support Catalina....

[ziggy29]

This just posted in the announcements:

With the release of Catalina for MacOS in the near future, Apple will no longer support 32-bit applications. This impacts the compatibility of our WINE-based client for MacOS. Players can continue to play LOTRO as long as they do not update to Catalina for MacOS. We apologize for any inconvenience this causes to our MacOS users.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...80#post7962080

No "we are working on it". No "we expect this to be ready by <date>". Just don't upgrade if you want to keep playing. Makes it sound like there are no plans to fix this.

Wow.

[Warmcat]

Well, I'm glad I delayed in buying Minas Morgul, as I won't be playing LOTRO in the near future.


Or is there another workaround?

[Ef-John]

I really hope that they will find a way to fix this. As far as I understand the only problem is that the launcher is 32-bit, not the game. On the other hand, once again I find myself as a Mac user getting the short end of the stick. It is truly a pity since I was so excited for the expansion and was planning on buying it next week..

[BINKLEY1]

This is super unfortunate for me.

1) I travel 100% for work; home on many, but not all weekends.
2) I've been playing LotRO since the first Christmas of the first year of non-beta release.
3) My company provides the laptop I play on when traveling, which is a Mac.
4) I do not have control over OS updates/upgrades; my company does.

However ... even reading through previous announcements and forum posts (and Internet searches), it is non-obvious if my MacOS WINE client for LotRO runs in 32-bit or 64-bit mode.

I did fine that there is an outstanding MacOS launcher bug since April that toggling the options settings does not show any changes, so perhaps I am running in 64-bit WINE now?

Clarification around this from Standing Stones would be appreciated.


Warm regards,
Gloimli @ ex-Windfola

[Roland_Deschain]

I did fine that there is an outstanding MacOS launcher bug since April that toggling the options settings does not show any changes, so perhaps I am running in 64-bit WINE now?

The launcher bug with it not showing 64-bit being selected is a bug that's been there since the Wine Beta. Sad that SSG has not bothered to fix it.

The Launcher is still 32-bit. OS X Mohave occasionally reminds me that LOTRO is still 32-bit but it's only the launcher. If you enable 64-bit in the Launcher options, it will run LOTRO in the 64-bit Wine environment. After you're logged in, if you press Ctrl-Tab, if the LOTRO application name is "wine64-preloader", it's running in 64-bit.

[Roland_Deschain]

The announcement from SSG needs clarification on whether they have plans to support Catalina in the future. I believe it's only the launcher that's still 32-bit, the main client can be run in 64-bit Wine which should be compatible with Catalina.

Has SSG given up on making the launcher 64-bit? Or just that it won't be ready in time for the planned imminent release of Catalina but SSG's goal is to make it happen? I'm unlikely to upgrade to Catalina until well into 2020 but if SSG is giving up on a 64-bit client on the Mac, I would like to know now rather than later.

There is no way I'm ever going to buy a windoze license for bootcamp in order to play lotro.

[ziggy29]

The announcement from SSG needs clarification on whether they have plans to support Catalina in the future. I believe it's only the launcher that's still 32-bit, the main client can be run in 64-bit Wine which should be compatible with Catalina.

Has SSG given up on making the launcher 64-bit? Or just that it won't be ready in time for the planned imminent release of Catalina but SSG's goal is to make it happen? I'm unlikely to upgrade to Catalina until well into 2020 but if SSG is giving up on a 64-bit client on the Mac, I would like to know now rather than later.

Precisely. The announcement makes it sound like they aren't planning it, let alone working on it. That's not a good feeling. Hope I'm wrong.

[Guusrod]

Hi,

As a player who has used Mac for 9 years to play LotRo I am not surprised at all. I can echo every single post above. SSG pay even less concern, despite it seeming to be impossible, than Turbine or even Codemasters did.

What annoys me most though is that I have been a paid VIP subscriber for 9 years. I pay exactly the same price as Windows users, I pay the same price for updates (I too have fortunately not blown £100 on Minas Morgul). How can SSG possibly justify charging Mac users the same as windows users whilst providing no support option ( a major selling point of VIP status) and now not even keeping pace with a hardly surprising Mac development that has been in the public domain for over a year.

Cord, Diplo et al. I am pretty certain you guys don't think that this is right. SPEAK UP FFS.

Around the world minorities, rightly, gain more protections and support every day. Mac users are approximately 5% of the world's computers, If that ain't a minority what is? If you can take my money support my gameplay!!

Sorry for the rant but this #### is making my blood boil. I'm sending this to the board of SSG as well. We may only be 5% but if we speak loudly maybe they'll hear us.

Guus

[naarcx]

Hi,

As a player who has used Mac for 9 years to play LotRo I am not surprised at all. I can echo every single post above. SSG pay even less concern, despite it seeming to be impossible, than Turbine or even Codemasters did.

What annoys me most though is that I have been a paid VIP subscriber for 9 years. I pay exactly the same price as Windows users, I pay the same price for updates (I too have fortunately not blown £100 on Minas Morgul). How can SSG possibly justify charging Mac users the same as windows users whilst providing no support option ( a major selling point of VIP status) and now not even keeping pace with a hardly surprising Mac development that has been in the public domain for over a year.

Cord, Diplo et al. I am pretty certain you guys don't think that this is right. SPEAK UP FFS.

Around the world minorities, rightly, gain more protections and support every day. Mac users are approximately 5% of the world's computers, If that ain't a minority what is? If you can take my money support my gameplay!!

Sorry for the rant but this #### is making my blood boil. I'm sending this to the board of SSG as well. We may only be 5% but if we speak loudly maybe they'll hear us.

Guus

Macs cost roughly twice as much per computing power as PC's, therefore Mac users have twice as much disposable income to spend on in-game purchases...!

Maybe SSG will follow this line of fallacidically broken logic and get inspired to make a 64-bit launcher, which honestly is a lot less work that making the actual client, which is already done...

[Thurallor]

How can SSG possibly justify charging Mac users the same as windows users whilst providing no support option ( a major selling point of VIP status) and now not even keeping pace with a hardly surprising Mac development that has been in the public domain for over a year.

Why are you complaining about SSG? Apple is the one ending support for 32-bit applications. Microsoft isn't doing that for Windows users any time soon.

Steve Jobs is dead. But his reality distortion field is still in effect, it seems.

[tanlis]

My plan is that every time Cord streams until I get an answer, I will be asking them to provide clarification on what their future plans are for Catalina. The best way we can push them to give an answer is for more people do this.

There is no reason that they couldn't support Catalina eventually since there are companies that are working on providing a 64-bit Wine.

[tanlis]

Why are you complaining about SSG? Apple is the one ending support for 32-bit applications. Microsoft isn't doing that for Windows users any time soon.

Steve Jobs is dead. But his reality distortion field is still in effect, it seems.

Oh, I'm sorry, let's just not advance the security and performance of the operating system. Maybe we should follow Bill Gates advice and stick with 640k for memory!?! Maybe we should still be using floppy disks to install software? and use only 14.4 baud modems. Technology is always advancing and companies have to keep up. We have computers with more than 4GB of memory and programs should be able to address the full capacity of that.

[SinordLoresearcher]

I find myself confused...

Catalina won't support 32 bit clients, but Lotro Mac usage is now 64 bit client... could someone elaborate please?

[ziggy29]

My plan is that every time Cord streams until I get an answer, I will be asking them to provide clarification on what their future plans are for Catalina. The best way we can push them to give an answer is for more people do this.

There is no reason that they couldn't support Catalina eventually since there are companies that are working on providing a 64-bit Wine.

Yes, that is the thing. The way it was communicated makes it sound like they have no plans to support it, ever. No explanation of the problem? No suggestion that they will work to integrate a FULLY 64 bit Wine client when it is available?

The thing is, I recall the reason for going to Wine was to get a 64 bit version to run on the Mac in preparation for Catalina. Did no one there know that the Wine wrapper was not completely 64 bit?

[naarcx]

I find myself confused...

Catalina won't support 32 bit clients, but Lotro Mac usage is now 64 bit client... could someone elaborate please?

The client is 64bit, but the wine launcher is 32bit. And without the launcher you can't login or get access to said 64bit client.


The confusing part for me is that wine2.0, which came out in 2017, is supposed to be fully 64bt supported for OS/X.

[Cordovan]

If WINE becomes compatible with Catalina or future OS updates for Mac in the future we will be interested in looking into what that allows us to do.

[tanlis]

The client is 64bit, but the wine launcher is 32bit. And without the launcher you can't login or get access to said 64bit client.


The confusing part for me is that wine2.0, which came out in 2017, is supposed to be fully 64bt supported for OS/X.

If you read this blog, https://www.codeweavers.com/about/bl...or-catalinayet, it may give you an idea of why just cause Wine has supported 64bit for awhile now, that there is still more to be done to make it work on Catalina. (Crossover is a custom frontend to Wine)

And this could be the reason why SSG can't promise support for Catalina.

[tanlis]

If WINE becomes compatible with Catalina or future OS updates for Mac in the future we will be interested in looking into what that allows us to do.

Thank you. This is what should of been in the announcement.

[Hallandil]

This just posted in the announcements:



https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...80#post7962080

No "we are working on it". No "we expect this to be ready by <date>". Just don't upgrade if you want to keep playing. Makes it sound like there are no plans to fix this.

Wow.

This issue is wider spread than LOTRO. This is more-so a move by Apple to force consumers through their central App store.

Not only most Microsoft apps (their main competitor) will stop working with the Catalina update, many 3rd party hardware drivers will stop working as well. And when I say "drivers" I mean something as simple as being able to use certain keyboards, mice or monitors may not work with the new OS update. Many aren't 64-bit (why would they need to be? it's just interfacing software, minor stuff).

Personally, I wouldn't be pushing the blame to SSG, as a low-scale indie studio. I'd more-so shift the blame to Apple culling the competition under the guise of "technological advancement"

[Roland_Deschain]

If WINE becomes compatible with Catalina or future OS updates for Mac in the future we will be interested in looking into what that allows us to do.

Thanks for info. However, I'm still a bit puzzled by the Wine 64 support. Is SSG saying that Wine 64 (current version) is not fully compatible with the Catalina 64-bit requirements? Or is there an issue with Wine 64 that prevents the 32-bit launcher from being converted to 64-bit under Wine?

[Roland_Deschain]

If you read this blog, https://www.codeweavers.com/about/bl...or-catalinayet, it may give you an idea of why just cause Wine has supported 64bit for awhile now, that there is still more to be done to make it work on Catalina. (Crossover is a custom frontend to Wine)

And this could be the reason why SSG can't promise support for Catalina.

I can understand there is still a problem if the windows application is 32-bit but the lotro client is now 64-bit so that shouldn't be the issue for running on Catalina. However, the launcher is still 32-bit so that's why it won't work on Catalina at present. Why can't SSG migrate the launcher to 64-bit? What is stopping that? Some technical issue that they haven't been able to overcome?

[Formengil]

The launcher is a Qt app, it really shouldn't be that hard (especially compared to the game client).

[Echoweaver]

OK, it has really been difficult for me to figure out ###'s up with wine. This is what I think is going on:

Even 64-bit stuff with wine is entangled in 32-bit libraries. Its primary use case is making older stuff runnable, so it's not that easy to find conversations on wine running purely 64-bit stuff, even on threads about Catalina. But I think the deal is that you can't even compile a purely 64-bit version of wine. Therefore, it's not going to be able to run LOTRO for us, even if LOTRO is 100% 64-bit.

Right now, the launcher is 32-bit, so if wine got running on Catalina, we could in theory run LOTRO if we could bypass the launcher. That's doable except for the fact that the launcher manages patches.

The scuttlebutt with regards to the launcher is that there's still a decent amount of 32-bit Windows that SSG needs to support, so the 32-bit client is not going away. I'm not clear on what would be required to provide a separate 64-bit launcher. Would it just be recompiling the existing launcher? Is it in fact a miserable headache?

If wine gets itself together for Catalina and manages to support 32-bit stuff, which is clearly the preference of that community, then our problem is solved. If they get a 64-bit only version running, then I s'pose we can strategize over whether there's a path to LOTRO for us.

FWIW: This is hardly the only pain that Catalina is going to bring me. I have no plans to upgrade.

[ElisabethK]

If WINE becomes compatible with Catalina or future OS updates for Mac in the future we will be interested in looking into what that allows us to do.

Echoing the thank you for clarifying this. I played STO in fairly regular alternation with LOTRO until they totally ditched the Mac client with little fanfare. Please don't bail on Mac users too.