Bullroarer Update 25 - Preview #1 (Preview Server Closed)

[Trhorinsh]

I did a little exploring with my guardian, leaving him as-is other than picking up some mithril coins to unlock stables. I only had a couple hours or so to check things out, but here's what I noticed so far:

• There seems to be a lack of lvl 121-122 mobs and quests, at least that I could find from entering the new zones from either the east or west. (Maybe I just missed something.) Landscape mobs were in the 123-126 range except for one area where they were all 130. Not a huge deal for a guardian with maxed out LIs but it'd probably mean I would spend more time in existing zones before venturing near Minas Morgul on any of my other characters.
• Locations of lvl 123 mob spawns in North Ithilien could be problematic. I saw multiple mobs spawning in the vicinity of the noxious blossoms for the lvl 105 herbalist daily given by Mithrandir, which would pretty well render that quest impossible for someone leveling through NI.
• I enjoyed what I saw of Cirith Ungol.
• The location of the Minas Morgul stablemaster gave me a scare. Good thing those elite trolls seem to have short aggro ranges.
• Hooray to a lvl 120 shield crafting recipe. Boo to the same ridiculously high material costs as the previous crafting tier.
• I was happy to not encounter any new places with shadow/LoE needed. I hope the rest is this way.
• The stable route from Magh Ashtu to (I forget the name, it's the only one in the new zones with a travel route from there) bugged out on me. I didn't even get to the top of the hill leaving TU before my horse got stuck. I tried to submit a bug report but the form never loaded.

Overall I'm cautiously optimistic about this one. It certainly didn't give me the "I hate this" vibe Mordor did.

Questing for levels 120-123 seems to be in Mordor Besieged area - you get there by doing the black book.

[Theozor]

Questing for levels 120-123 seems to be in Mordor Besieged area - you get there by doing the black book.

Aha! That would explain how I missed it. Guess I'll go back and do that part next time.

[Sarthien]

Just a few things after 2 hours of questing:

- Dingarth: Quest „Enduring the war“ – Tend to the wounded soldiers (12)
-> 6 are more than enough (especially if they have a cooldown after using. Imagine the rush in the first weeks)


- Gemstones: Same icon as ore
- Hides: Mobs are dropping partially ironfold and doomfold crafting materials, not new ones
- Scholar icons are the same as ore icons

- Stable-masters of Adambel and Barthost don’t show on the map

- Map will jump to current Mordor map when you enter Adambel/the region of Echad-In-Edhil and won’t change back to the new one until you reach the region of Dol Naeg, thus you can’t see where you have quests as long as you don’t switch the map manually back to the new Mordor map

[Laurelinarien]

- Dingarth: Quest „Enduring the war“ – Tend to the wounded soldiers (12)
-> 6 are more than enough (especially if they have a cooldown after using. Imagine the rush in the first weeks)

I ran this quest last night with my bf and clicking on them doesn't affect other players. We were both able to click on them without having to coordinate, which we needed to do with the captured soldiers later on since they run away once you free them.

The icons are usually wrong in the first previews, so that's common, like the missing bodies on some Elf NPC models and the maps references being unfinished.

[Zvim666]

Questing in Mordor Besieged seems to be fairly smooth up until Barthost, but Nithi only has a few quests and after you complete them there is no instruction of what to do next. I checked my exploration deed and had all bar Angathrai and Halroth explored, there is I think an instance entrance at Halroth but I wasn't able to enter it. NPC at Halroth (Terna) gives you a quest to lay traps in three places, one happens to be Angathrai where you also pickup some quests as soon as you enter the area. The quests just end there, I have gone back to each quest hub but none of the npcs have any quests, my exploration deed is complete but my Quests of Mordor Besieged deed is stuck on 46/50.

I rode around the entire map, no other quests have popped up, it could probably do with an improved direction from Barthost onwards, I have no idea what i have missed. My Rare Chest deed is at 8/10, I am assuming the remaining two are in the instance at Halroth that I can't enter.

I've gone on to have a look at Morgul Vale as I can't seem to progress any further in Mordor Besieged.

[VincentAC]

When you take a slow stable ride from Magh Ashtu to Echad Uial, your mount gets stuck at the gate at Murvarg due to a bump in the path.

[danquanngaytho]

Can I access the new epic book even I do not purchase Minas Morgul expansion after U25 is released?

[Thurinuor]

Can I access the new epic book even I do not purchase Minas Morgul expansion after U25 is released?

You can, but then you need the Mordor Expansion for that. Otherwise Minas Morgul will unlock the complete BBoM.

[Urundus]

Some feedback on creepside, which seems to have partially been scaled to up. Corruptions seem to have scaled up, and consumables got updated to 130. Morale hasn't been scaled on Beta #1. This really needs to happen with the major increase in stats freeps will be receiving.
Can't yet say much about damage output and damage taken.

The issue
There's a rather large issue with creepside at the moment which has always been present but is just getting enlarged every single new level cap and that is base stats. We've (literally) hit a new low. We're talking about single digit %'s in base stats, and in the case of mitigations, even negative(!) values.

Here's an overview I have collected on Beta #1 with the base values for each of the classes. This is without any corruptions, traits, consumables or buffs.

Mitigations
Class	Armour	Beleriand		Fire		Light		Critical	Defence
	Rating	Rating	%	Rating	%	Rating	%	Rating	%
Reaver	14.000	9.000	-1,5%	4.000	1,1%	4.000	1,1%	45.000	14,5%
Spider	12.500	7.250	0,0%	0	0,0%	0	0,0%	37.500	12,3%
Blackarrow	15.750	10.750	-1,1%	3.250	0,9%	5.750	1,6%	52.200	16,7%
Warleader	17.500	15.000	0,1%	2.500	0,7%	7.500	2,1%	60.000	18,8%
Warg	12.250	7.500	0,0%	0	0,0%	0	0,0%	37.500	12,3%
Defiler	14.000	9.000	-1,5%	4.000	0,0%	0	0,0%	45.000	14,5%

A fully mitigation traited Warleader with 6 corruptions in both physical and tactical, all traits providing any form of mitigations, consumables and armour buffs takes you just over 50%. For the other classes this is between 35% and 50% depending on the class having an armour trait or not.
This might not sound too bad but we're not considering that all other stats are basically 0 now in this setup. Which means no additional morale, mastery (for damage and healing) and pretty much 0% crit chance. On top of that DPS also has to deal with Finesse again which is currently 6,3% on the Beta resulting in a lot of BPE. Speaking of BPE, this is currently between 0,7% and 2,5% for creepside with no way at all to increase it, other than a few class traits that add ~16k which shifts this number up by roughly 0,5%.

Now lets quickly go over critical rating and the base stats for it. These stats have the buyable passives (Advanced Passive Skills) included in them, and again are without any traits, buffs, etc.

Critical Rating
Class			Critical	Devastate	Magnitude
	Type	Rating	%	%	%
Reaver	Melee	50.800	5,1%	1,1%	0,0%
Spider	Ranged	48.300	4,8%	1,0%	0,0%
Blackarrow	Ranged	50.800	5,1%	1,1%	0,0%
Warleader	Tactical	48.300	4,8%	1,0%	0,0%
Warg	Melee	50.800	5,1%	1,1%	0,0%
Defiler	Tactical	50.800	5,1%	1,1%	0,0%

Fully decked out with 6 critical corruptions gets you to ~25% critical chance and ~5% devastate chance, give or take.

I'm gonna leave at these stats, since these are the major ones that everyone needs. But we can at least draw some conclusions from it. First of all, we have 12 corruption slots to fill in the canyons in our stats. If we don't want to die instantly we're gonna need to slot some mitigations (both types) and probably some morale. Now there's limited slots left for critical rating, mastery and possibly other stats as well. Which means if you want some mitigations your output will be massively gimped due to a lack of both criticals and mastery. If you want output, you'll be stuck at single digit mitigations. And I'm not even taking in consideration: the lack of finesse, extremely low critical defence in comparison to freepside multipliers and magnitudes, base resistance being 0, and morale not being scaled forcing the use of morale corruptions.

Potential solutions

1. Straight up scale base stats. This can be done though the base values that each class has, but also through scaling, adding, or extending the stats and tiers of the Core and Advanced Passive Skills.
2. Increasing the amount of corruption slots available.
3. Combining corruptions into one. E.g. combining physical and tactical mitigation corruptions into a single one, or adding finesse to the mastery corruptions.
4. Update class and racial with higher ratings and a larger scala of stats which fit the trait. E.g. front line fodder could (next to the present BPE) add some armour, critical defence or resistance. Disadvantage is that this would leave newer players in the dust for not having these traits. The first 3 options would be a lot better for everyone.

[Mukor]

Dps with a raidrune of a onehand lI are still weaker as the best offhands.
Seems the adjustment isn´t correctly scaled.
Speaking of the runes, why are they get nerfed (this much) from 183,48 Base combat damage modifier to 32? This is a really poor descision.
Furthermore should the headstats of the twohanders should get scaled too. Minimum tripled. So they´re scaled to the "normal" items statsgiving.
And the scaling of skills which are wanted a long time as strength of morale isn.´t done too. Still 4400-6000, which is redicolous low. Or bladestorm crit buff +1293 crit (should be buffed by factor 10). This are bad jokes at our current statlevel.
At last but not least gueards belt headstat is still without a worth.

[Spilo]

Some feedback on creepside, which seems to have partially been scaled to up. Corruptions seem to have scaled up, and consumables got updated to 130. Morale hasn't been scaled on Beta #1. This really needs to happen with the major increase in stats freeps will be receiving.
Can't yet say much about damage output and damage taken.

The issue
There's a rather large issue with creepside at the moment which has always been present but is just getting enlarged every single new level cap and that is base stats. We've (literally) hit a new low. We're talking about single digit %'s in base stats, and in the case of mitigations, even negative(!) values.

Here's an overview I have collected on Beta #1 with the base values for each of the classes. This is without any corruptions, traits, consumables or buffs.

Mitigations
Class	Armour	Beleriand		Fire		Light		Critical	Defence
	Rating	Rating	%	Rating	%	Rating	%	Rating	%
Reaver	14.000	9.000	-1,5%	4.000	1,1%	4.000	1,1%	45.000	14,5%
Spider	12.500	7.250	0,0%	0	0,0%	0	0,0%	37.500	12,3%
Blackarrow	15.750	10.750	-1,1%	3.250	0,9%	5.750	1,6%	52.200	16,7%
Warleader	17.500	15.000	0,1%	2.500	0,7%	7.500	2,1%	60.000	18,8%
Warg	12.250	7.500	0,0%	0	0,0%	0	0,0%	37.500	12,3%
Defiler	14.000	9.000	-1,5%	4.000	0,0%	0	0,0%	45.000	14,5%

A fully mitigation traited Warleader with 6 corruptions in both physical and tactical, all traits providing any form of mitigations, consumables and armour buffs takes you just over 50%. For the other classes this is between 35% and 50% depending on the class having an armour trait or not.
This might not sound too bad but we're not considering that all other stats are basically 0 now in this setup. Which means no additional morale, mastery (for damage and healing) and pretty much 0% crit chance. On top of that DPS also has to deal with Finesse again which is currently 6,3% on the Beta resulting in a lot of BPE. Speaking of BPE, this is currently between 0,7% and 2,5% for creepside with no way at all to increase it, other than a few class traits that add ~16k which shifts this number up by roughly 0,5%.

Now lets quickly go over critical rating and the base stats for it. These stats have the buyable passives (Advanced Passive Skills) included in them, and again are without any traits, buffs, etc.

Critical Rating
Class			Critical	Devastate	Magnitude
	Type	Rating	%	%	%
Reaver	Melee	50.800	5,1%	1,1%	0,0%
Spider	Ranged	48.300	4,8%	1,0%	0,0%
Blackarrow	Ranged	50.800	5,1%	1,1%	0,0%
Warleader	Tactical	48.300	4,8%	1,0%	0,0%
Warg	Melee	50.800	5,1%	1,1%	0,0%
Defiler	Tactical	50.800	5,1%	1,1%	0,0%

Fully decked out with 6 critical corruptions gets you to ~25% critical chance and ~5% devastate chance, give or take.

I'm gonna leave at these stats, since these are the major ones that everyone needs. But we can at least draw some conclusions from it. First of all, we have 12 corruption slots to fill in the canyons in our stats. If we don't want to die instantly we're gonna need to slot some mitigations (both types) and probably some morale. Now there's limited slots left for critical rating, mastery and possibly other stats as well. Which means if you want some mitigations your output will be massively gimped due to a lack of both criticals and mastery. If you want output, you'll be stuck at single digit mitigations. And I'm not even taking in consideration: the lack of finesse, extremely low critical defence in comparison to freepside multipliers and magnitudes, base resistance being 0, and morale not being scaled forcing the use of morale corruptions.

Potential solutions

1. Straight up scale base stats. This can be done though the base values that each class has, but also through scaling, adding, or extending the stats and tiers of the Core and Advanced Passive Skills.
2. Increasing the amount of corruption slots available.
3. Combining corruptions into one. E.g. combining physical and tactical mitigation corruptions into a single one, or adding finesse to the mastery corruptions.
4. Update class and racial with higher ratings and a larger scala of stats which fit the trait. E.g. front line fodder could (next to the present BPE) add some armour, critical defence or resistance. Disadvantage is that this would leave newer players in the dust for not having these traits. The first 3 options would be a lot better for everyone.

Thanks for doing the grunt work, and your suggested solutions are exactly what I'd suggest.

[Sindhol]

There are several big issues that need to be addressed before this update goes live.

(1) Power and power drain scaling. Power costs are too high, power drains are too big, power regeneration debuffs are too big, maximum power debuffs are too big. As-is, it's barely playable.
(2) Legendary items and runes. Legendary weapon DPS is still too low, and damage and healing runes are too weak.
(3) Rune-keeper changes. Like the previous round of warden changes, the actual issues did not get addressed; instead, some numbers got shifted around. See this excellent post.
(4) Warden changes (there are none). Wardens are suffering badly from the power, legendary rune, and stat scaling (Hey, our legacies got even less relevant! And we have to lose even more stats to do our job!), are still reling on Throne armour to perform their one viable role, and haven't had any help in the tanking department since 95 cap came around. Please take the time to buff them properly, and don't just shift numbers around. The numbers required to make wardens viable tanks are insane.
(5) Creep scaling. See Urundus' excellent post.
(6) Captain changes. See this thread.
(7) Virtues scaling (there isn't any).

There are loads and loads of other bugs and small fixes to be addressed, in the vein of (6), but for other classes.


For (1), the main problem is that power hasn't scaled since... well, 95 cap, I think.
For (2), it's obvious that LI runes need to go up in strength to remain relevant. A 32-damage rune on a 1300-dps weapon isn't going to excite anyone--especially considering that 1300-damage weapon isn't scaled properly, either--but it's going to be even worse when new LI tiers get added. I would suggest balancing the runes at 6%/8%/10% of the damage of a weapon of that level (with an appropriate boost for 2hs), and scaling legendary weapon damage to be the same as that of off-hands. The result would be that a legendary weapon with the best rune will have a dps value 10% higher than the equivalent off-hand weapon.


Overall, this beta makes me hope for a lot more betas before the update goes live.

[Hzn]

My 2 cents :

- Values of power drain debuffs and skills power cost are out of hand, it's badly scaled (since lvl 120 these debuffs are broken, especially in Haudh Valandil, the Kergrims have the same issue). It is globally due to your universal scaling system, some calculations have not been done. (unless removing the entire power bar is a new mechanic, but I don't think so)
- Gear progression is nearly as bad as it was during Mordor, I'm doing the first instance (required by the progression) with 2 purple pieces and 3 green pieces (yellow if you prefer), hopefully you can reduce the level of these instances.
- Rare chest was a bad idea in Mordor, searching for chests across the landscape in hope to obtain a blue gear piece was too RNG and generally a bad design. (unless you reworked it this time, since atm it's a placeholder)
- Essences drop rate is way too low (dropped around 3 essences for nearly the whole landscape of the expansion) and please make them free to trade, especially if you can't turn them into embers.
- Legendary weapons buff is broken, the DPS is the same as Live server and offhand are still way ahead but I guess it's broken for now.
- Instances so far have too many trash mobs, imo.
- End Bosses of both instances have multiple bugs, but I'm sure you know about it.
- Quest "The Morgulduin" it is not possible to target the object required to sample the water without using the key "Nearest Object".
- Fumaroles aggro is as boring as it was in Mordor, they stay aggro for a long period of time at a very large distance, it's really, really annoying. Reduce their aggro duration/range or something.
- Texture missing in Eithel Gwaur. (66.9S, 7.5E)
- Texture missing in Minas Morgul. (65.9S, 2.8E)
- Texture missing in Minas Morgul (67.9S, 0.0W)
- Texture missing in Mnas Morgul (67.3S, 0.3E)
- Quest "Confronting Shakfut" : one of the orc you're supposed to kill is protected by an invisible wall, you can't aggro/pull him in Minas Morgul. (68.5S, 0.3E)

I'm sure you have a build more recent than this one, so let us find bugs in a more polished build and not in a relic from weeks/months ago.

[elzeqq]

My 2 cents :

- Values of power drain debuffs and skills power cost are out of hand, it's badly scaled (since lvl 120 these debuffs are broken, especially in Haudh Valandil, the Kergrims have the same issue). It is globally due to your universal scaling system, some calculations have not been done. (unless removing the entire power bar is a new mechanic, but I don't think so)
- Gear progression is nearly as bad as it was during Mordor, I'm doing the first instance (required by the progression) with 2 purple pieces and 3 green pieces (yellow if you prefer), hopefully you can reduce the level of these instances.
- Rare chest was a bad idea in Mordor, searching for chests across the landscape in hope to obtain a blue gear piece was too RNG and generally a bad design. (unless you reworked it this time, since atm it's a placeholder)
- Essences drop rate is way too low (dropped around 3 essences for nearly the whole landscape of the extension) and please make them free to trade, especially if you can't turn them into embers.
- Legendary weapons buff is broken, the DPS is the same as Live server and offhand are still way ahead but I guess it's broken for now.
- Instances so far have too many trash mobs, imo.
- Quest "The Morgulduin" it is not possible to target the object required to sample the water without using the key "Nearest Object".
- Fumaroles aggro is as boring as it was in Mordor, they stay aggro for a long period of time at a very large distance, it's really, really annoying. Reduce their aggro duration/range or something.
- Texture missing in Eithel Gwaur. (66.9S, 7.5E)
- Texture missing in Minas Morgul. (65.9S, 2.8E)
- Texture missing in Minas Morgul (67.9S, 0.0W)
- Texture missing in Mnas Morgul (67.3S, 0.3E)
- Quest "Confronting Shakfut" : one of the orc you're supposed to kill is protected by an invisible wall, you can't aggro/pull him in Minas Morgul. (68.5S, 0.3E)

I'm sure you have build more recent than this one, so let us find bugs in a more polished build and not in a relic from weeks/months ago.

There are several big issues that need to be addressed before this update goes live.

(1) Power and power drain scaling. Power costs are too high, power drains are too big, power regeneration debuffs are too big, maximum power debuffs are too big. As-is, it's barely playable.
(2) Legendary items and runes. Legendary weapon DPS is still too low, and damage and healing runes are too weak.
(3) Rune-keeper changes. Like the previous round of warden changes, the actual issues did not get addressed; instead, some numbers got shifted around. See this excellent post.
(4) Warden changes (there are none). Wardens are suffering badly from the power, legendary rune, and stat scaling (Hey, our legacies got even less relevant! And we have to lose even more stats to do our job!), are still reling on Throne armour to perform their one viable role, and haven't had any help in the tanking department since 95 cap came around. Please take the time to buff them properly, and don't just shift numbers around. The numbers required to make wardens viable tanks are insane.
(5) Creep scaling. See Urundus' excellent post.
(6) Captain changes. See this thread.
(7) Virtues scaling (there isn't any).

There are loads and loads of other bugs and small fixes to be addressed, in the vein of (6), but for other classes.


For (1), the main problem is that power hasn't scaled since... well, 95 cap, I think.
For (2), it's obvious that LI runes need to go up in strength to remain relevant. A 32-damage rune on a 1300-dps weapon isn't going to excite anyone--especially considering that 1300-damage weapon isn't scaled properly, either--but it's going to be even worse when new LI tiers get added. I would suggest balancing the runes at 6%/8%/10% of the damage of a weapon of that level (with an appropriate boost for 2hs), and scaling legendary weapon damage to be the same as that of off-hands. The result would be that a legendary weapon with the best rune will have a dps value 10% higher than the equivalent off-hand weapon.


Overall, this beta makes me hope for a lot more betas before the update goes live.

+1 to these posts.

[Elmagor]

Mordor Beseidged slaying deeds: Final deed have 200 mobs. Thank to Gods they don't make it to 400.
Mordor Beseidged quest deeds: Complete 46/50 quests so far, can't find other 4 quests. May be they gated behind Gil Galad and other disabled NPC
Mordor Beseidged expoloer deeds: Can't complete it, because one of points of interest don't counts (1st one)

[Lord.Funk]

There are several big issues that need to be addressed before this update goes live.

(1) Power and power drain scaling. Power costs are too high, power drains are too big, power regeneration debuffs are too big, maximum power debuffs are too big. As-is, it's barely playable.

- Values of power drain debuffs and skills power cost are out of hand, it's badly scaled (since lvl 120 these debuffs are broken, especially in Haudh Valandil, the Kergrims have the same issue). It is globally due to your universal scaling system, some calculations have not been done. (unless removing the entire power bar is a new mechanic, but I don't think so)

Power consumtion and power drain out of hands, like DoT's were after a certian update not too long ago during Ered Mithrin (later fixed or tuned down). You don't say, he he he !!!

On Live Servers, the Weaver Ability "Latent Poison" reduces Maximum Power by 5800 at the moment.

However, now that there is Level 130 coming with Minas Morgul, this Ability was scaled up to 12,629 Maximum Power. This is more Power than any freep class can/will have, which means that all freeps that have this debuff on them won't be able to use ANY abilities during "Latent Poison". Keep in mind that Latent Poison has a duration of 15 seconds and a CD of 20 seconds (=75% uptime). The debuff value is not intentional, this is due to LotRO's broken ability level scaling on Creep abilities.



Please fix this before U25 goes live!

Also, this thread is not meant to create a general PvMP balancing discussion, we all know that PvMP has some serious balancing issues. However, this skill will single-handedly make Freeps/Freep Groups unplayable as you can just perma-shutdown any freep class except Beorn.

[Osglinthor]

I have made few other threads/posts about problems people are pointing out here also in hopes devs acknowlage them in any of these threads.

At the moment there is almost no progression DPS wise when you lvl up from 120 to 130.Most of your skills drop down in value(I understand mastery % drops for example if you are capped at 120) but skills damage should still go up by significant ammount to separate us from last lvl cap.At the moment there is almost no difference and no progression as I have said already.This also affects heals probably and same thing applies to morale.I understand gear should play part in character strenght and majority of it should be from gear but good portion must come from lvls,esp when you need to separate from past lvl cap.For example just look at morale of naked lvl 130 character or its damage and compare it to lvl 120 or lower level and see how much progresion is attached to lvls.
There is a lot of other problems but until I see some acknowlegde from devs Ill not bother posting details as you already have hands full from what has been pointed out already.
Gona need at least another month for this expansion if you want to have decent release.

[Elmagor]

I have made few other threads/posts about problems people are pointing out here also in hopes devs acknowlage them in any of these threads.

At the moment there is almost no progression DPS wise when you lvl up from 120 to 130.Most of your skills drop down in value(I understand mastery % drops for example if you are capped at 120) but skills damage should still go up by significant ammount to separate us from last lvl cap.At the moment there is almost no difference and no progression as I have said already.This also affects heals probably and same thing applies to morale.I understand gear should play part in character strenght and majority of it should be from gear but good portion must come from lvls,esp when you need to separate from past lvl cap.For example just look at morale of naked lvl 130 character or its damage and compare it to lvl 120 or lower level and see how much progresion is attached to lvls.
There is a lot of other problems but until I see some acknowlegde from devs Ill not bother posting details as you already have hands full from what has been pointed out already.
Gona need at least another month for this expansion if you want to have decent release.

+1 They give us +10 levels. And in same time, we get 0 trait points, 0 updgraded skills, if you compare 120 level character and 130 level character with same gear, 1st one will be better

[Lord.Funk]

Just two minor Quest text Errors I spotted.

This first one has been in game on live for some time now (since the ember quest rewards were lowered in skarhald), but not really been worth spending alot of time to fix, as the quest still deducts the correct amount of 20 and not 25 Marks Of The Longbeards. However now with bigger changes coming and needing to update text anyway it might as well get corrected alomg with the rest.

I also noted that even the name of the quest is not changed yet. It should of course be renamed "Longbeard Marks for Motes".



The second is a very similar text error.

[Lord.Funk]

For those intersted I thought I'd post some more info on the Quests rewarding Embers currently live and how they will be chnaged to reward Motes with Minas Morgul Expansion.

In case anyone is interested in the values and maybe debate around that before it gos live.

Longbeard Marks For Motes



Fight For The Grey



For running all 3 Ered Mithrin Instances. Solo and duo versions don't count.

Reclaiming The Grey



For doing 20 quests in the Skarhald daily resource instances (playing a regular ered mithrin instance to the end also counts as 1 quest).

Craft For Motes

See image of that in my previous post (I don't want to repost the same image already again).

It will now reward 500 Motes for aquiring and crafting 7 Dwarrowgleam Shards.

Protecting The Beornings/Woodsmen/Elves

They will now reward 300 Motes Of Enchantement for the wrapper to run each instance and do all quests in them twice (once per day cooldown).

Meaning they all require same effort/grind as before but now reward even less amount of Motes compared to the amount of Embers they currently reward on live. The question is if the prices on the coffers for the gear for these regions will still cost as many Motes as they now do Embers (that had not been added or changed on barterers yet) ??? Who will ever get enough to gear up for that region then ??? And in any case I wonder how many will bother to run the 20/20 Skarhald quests for 300 Motes and 1 outdated Shard etc, or the Craft quest using 7 Shards to get 500 Motes ??? Not to mention that gear deconstructed to Motes usually only reward like 20-40 Motes and not 200-400 like Ember gear does. I guess the Vale quests are at least not that bad and can be run two days in a row fairly fast and aquire 900 Motes.

This in my opinion is definetly a weakness with the Ember/Mote system. That gearing up in old regions as You play them will be way too grindy. Try gearing up in Mordor unless You have capped motes from start (even then not worth it really). You'll be through it by ther time You can start grinding for Motes with dailies (as it requires all regions completed more or less) and simply not bother to gear up.

In my opinions hese numbers should be adjusted dramatically before release, or I feel sorry for all that comes late to the game and these regions. It probably is just some first automated script changing these to Motes and not manually adjusted yet.

[Lord.Funk]

As mentioned in other posts and threads by people.

I too leveled a character to 130. Got the 130 gear from Vastin NPC in Tavern (abyss gear scaled to 130 ili 395 I think, best I could find). Added all the best vale essences (as no other were around in beta), which are not that much worse than the new purple Minas Morgul Essences I've seen posted. I were nowhere near capping the new mastery and crit caps (which caps now seem to be double to before), not to mention other stats. I could reach the old capped values of 303K and such, but my character were worse at 130 than at 120. Yes with maxed out LI of course.

The scaling seem to be off on alot of things. Not only the power consumtion and drain effects.

[Hephburz-2]

As mentioned in other posts and threads by people.

I too leveled a character to 130. Got the 130 gear from Vastin NPC in Tavern (abyss gear scaled to 130 ili 395 I think, best I could find). Added all the best vale essences (as no other were around in beta), which are not that much worse than the new purple Minas Morgul Essences I've seen posted. I were nowhere near capping the new mastery and crit caps (which caps now seem to be double to before), not to mention other stats. I could reach the old capped values of 303K and such, but my character were worse at 130 than at 120. Yes with maxed out LI of course.

The scaling seem to be off on alot of things. Not only the power consumtion and drain effects.

Of course your character is going to be worse off??

The stat caps are undoubetedly higher than level 120, so if your current values only reach the old level 120 stat caps, what do you expect? lol

Such as it is with every level cap increase - we will eventually get better gear and be able to cap out things.

But no, you aren't going to be able to cap everything on release -_-

Just as you weren't able to when EM was released, or when Mordor was released.

[Osglinthor]

Of course your character is going to be worse off??

The stat caps are undoubetedly higher than level 120, so if your current values only reach the old level 120 stat caps, what do you expect? lol

Such as it is with every level cap increase - we will eventually get better gear and be able to cap out things.

But no, you aren't going to be able to cap everything on release -_-

Just as you weren't able to when EM was released, or when Mordor was released.

That is not how things were before ratings rework,lvl 120 cap iirc cant remember now.For example from 100 to 105 in same gear you were still stronger when you hit 105 than you were at 100 even tho your mastery drops by % because your skills scaled with lvl also.Now that scaling is either too little or non existant.In no other MMO you lose DPS when you lvl up regardless of your gear.Noone asks to cap stats at release but to do less damage than you do on live atm all the way till you get BiS gear and then for that increase to be almost non existant is just stupid.Your characther almost has 0 progression over 10 lvls and entire expansion that is suposed to last at least a year.You can see clear effect of this on skills that still pull scaling from lvl as well as mastery such as 15% bleed proc on warden light ST gambits,their value gets a lot higher than non 15% proc despite them not scaling from weapon damage only from mastery.In no sane mmo should you get weaker as you lvl up despite wearing past lvl cap gear.It insane that lvl 120 character with nothing changed lvls up to 130 deals less damage,with exception of some skills.

[Hephburz-2]

That is not how things were before ratings rework,lvl 120 cap iirc cant remember now.For example from 100 to 105 in same gear you were still stronger when you hit 105 than you were at 100 even tho your mastery drops by % because your skills scaled with lvl also.Now that scaling is either too little or non existant.In no other MMO you lose DPS when you lvl up regardless of your gear.Noone asks to cap stats at release but to do less damage than you do on live atm all the way till you get BiS gear and then for that increase to be almost non existant is just stupid.Your characther almost has 0 progression over 10 lvls and entire expansion that is suposed to last at least a year.You can see clear effect of this on skills that still pull scaling from lvl as well as mastery such as 15% bleed proc on warden light ST gambits,their value gets a lot higher than non 15% proc despite them not scaling from weapon damage only from mastery.In no sane mmo should you get weaker as you lvl up despite wearing past lvl cap gear.It insane that lvl 120 character with nothing changed lvls up to 130 deals less damage,with exception of some skills.

Do you not imagine that their idea behind this is to keepp values the same? Yes our levels have increased, but why is it that we need to go up so massively in stat / damage between updates? Why will it matter that when we get BiS gear our dps/hps will be the same as 120?

[Osglinthor]

Do you not imagine that their idea behind this is to keepp values the same? Yes our levels have increased, but why is it that we need to go up so massively in stat / damage between updates? Why will it matter that when we get BiS gear our dps/hps will be the same as 120?

Then what is the point of raising lvl cap by 10 when there is 0 progression from it?Might aswell copy entire gear with same item lvls from vales put it in new instances and keep lvl same.There,we would still have 0 progression and would not need to bother with 10 lvls for nothing.Ill log in later today and link one skill as good example of how bad current scaling is.Point of lvl caps and mmos in general is to progress with your character.Expansion needs to create bigger stat gap between past expansion/quest pack when it has 10 lvl increase.I dont understand how are people fine with this.We are losing every bit of progression one gets in mmo so what is the point of even buying expansion going trough instances and gearing up if you end up being same as you were 10 lvls ago besides doing it for the story.