Current Yellow DPS

[Allyjspurs]

Hi all

just a question to people generally. After the recent reduction in CA to 2 seconds how are people finding their dps output.

We spent a night at our Kin House testing vs the lvl130 dummy damage parses between differing classes mainly a hunter vs RK matchup.

I have full tier 1 shelob gear max legacies in the all the usual LIs. i was doing on average about 90k dps over a 3min parse did this a number of times over the session peak was 102k lowest 85k (particularly bad atunement management by me) but look to me 90-95k dps is a realistic min. Now the hunters were managing around 105-110k dps consistently and our warden was doing around 120-125k dps consistently.

I had to work really hard to hold a 90+dps and i mean real hard making sure i didn't needlessly cash in shockingwords/hoping Epic did crit and relying on a good amount of SS procs is this where RKs are supposed to be now? I know in raids with cappy buffs burg buffs i do about 120-130k but then hunters are shipping 150k+ and i shudder to think what wardens and burglars can shift. With the fate crit bug fixed CA should either return to as it was or at the very least make the pay offs of Epic and Shocking for using our atunement up worth it. I know this has been discussed a lot before but just interesting to see everyones take with the latest CA tweak.

In remmo i'm seeing regularly now 4-5 hunters and 1 RK or no RKs surely this should be a bit more fairly balanced out hunters now seem to be picked way ahead of RKs so has the balance gone a bit too far the other way?

And can non RKs not reply to this its not about YOU its about RKs.

[Aeviternus]

And can non RKs not reply to this its not about YOU its about RKs.

Let's start off by pointing out how silly this request is. Anyway, I have an RK, so thank goodness, I'm allowed to respond.

1) The players involved in the tests clearly don't have the same skill level, and even if they did, it's not a good idea to assess class balance by looking at the parses of very mediocre players.
2) The T1 raid gear means you're missing out on the set bonus, which changes rather a lot for RKs as well as Hunters, and not so much for Wardens (in terms of DPS, anyway).
3) Hunters have 10% passive mitigation penetration and another 4% from Pen. Shot, RKs have significantly more (15% from Writ isn't passive, but it only affects Lightning RKs, and 10% after every crit -> around 20%). Therefore, RKs would benefit substantially less from raid debuffs, meaning that dummy parses are skewed in favour of RKs.

So, while there's no denying that RKs are currently the worst commonly played DPS class to take to the raid, the means by which you attempted to verify this are by no means rigorous. Moreover, all of the numbers that you shared are very, very low, so your first priority should be getting better at your classes, rather than worry about class balance. RKs being a weak choice for DPS has been well known every since the bugfix that made fate give critical multiplier to tactical skills. If SSG decide to do something about it, great. There have been plenty of posts about it.

[Allyjspurs]

Let's start off by pointing out how silly this request is. Anyway, I have an RK, so thank goodness, I'm allowed to respond.

1) The players involved in the tests clearly don't have the same skill level, and even if they did, it's not a good idea to assess class balance by looking at the parses of very mediocre players.
2) The T1 raid gear means you're missing out on the set bonus, which changes rather a lot for RKs as well as Hunters, and not so much for Wardens (in terms of DPS, anyway).
3) Hunters have 10% passive mitigation penetration and another 4% from Pen. Shot, RKs have significantly more (15% from Writ isn't passive, but it only affects Lightning RKs, and 10% after every crit -> around 20%). Therefore, RKs would benefit substantially less from raid debuffs, meaning that dummy parses are skewed in favour of RKs.

So, while there's no denying that RKs are currently the worst commonly played DPS class to take to the raid, the means by which you attempted to verify this are by no means rigorous. Moreover, all of the numbers that you shared are very, very low, so your first priority should be getting better at your classes, rather than worry about class balance. RKs being a weak choice for DPS has been well known every since the bugfix that made fate give critical multiplier to tactical skills. If SSG decide to do something about it, great. There have been plenty of posts about it.

Ok - 'silly request' yes but it just turns into a i hate RKs thread which I didnt want this to be ideally - and I did a test which I think some may find useful and get some information out of replies as this forum seems dead right now of any help for the class....

Same skill level as compared to what? I was comparing my RK and our kin leader and 2 other experienced hunters who all got round about the same parses with all their respective hunter T1 raid gear on same as my RK and another 2RKer with the same Tier 1 raid gear on....we all have maxxed out equivalent bows/rune stones and our RKs had the same LIs so did the hunters. As far as the RKs go we both have 200% tm and 28% crit rating no one used foods or any other outside char skills/buffs so id say that is a good baseline barring of course human skill in rotation if this is the factor then fine.

Set bonuses as I see for T2 is 'Bubble bonus' and 'Smouldering wrath' and some more Will so sorry I don't see where a big DPS increase for RKs here is coming from.... this is lightning testing so smouldering wrath is not relevant or am I missing something else on the gear, extra will is irrelevent I am already capped on TM or does this increase then? I could be a clutz here obviously, appreciate your further comments.

Finally you say our numbers are low vs a 130 dummy? So what should a RK / Hunter / Warden be doing vs a lvl 130 dummy in my above scenario using T1 Raid gear? we are all experienced players here hunters weren't bow swapping etc and could do more than stated with current gear but you are saying all low... so how much should people be doing then IYO vs a lvl 130 dummy Yellow T1 kitted RK a Red Traited hunter T1 for example?

[Despotis]

The raid set bonus he is talking about is +10% static surge proc which adds a good amount (10-15k perhaps) to your dps. RK generally has a lot of rng while parsing but I would say anything below 105k means you are doing something wrong. Without the raid set totally unbuffed you should be around 110-130k.

[Aeviternus]

Same skill level as compared to what? I was comparing my RK and our kin leader and 2 other experienced hunters who all got round about the same parses with all their respective hunter T1 raid gear on same as my RK and another 2RKer with the same Tier 1 raid gear on....we all have maxxed out equivalent bows/rune stones and our RKs had the same LIs so did the hunters. As far as the RKs go we both have 200% tm and 28% crit rating no one used foods or any other outside char skills/buffs so id say that is a good baseline barring of course human skill in rotation if this is the factor then fine.

Yes, I'm of course talking about player skill, not gear. Experience can help, but if you're experienced in playing a class the wrong way (which I am not saying you necessarily are, but could be), then that isn't a good thing at all.

Set bonuses as I see for T2 is 'Bubble bonus' and 'Smouldering wrath' and some more Will so sorry I don't see where a big DPS increase for RKs here is coming from.... this is lightning testing so smouldering wrath is not relevant or am I missing something else on the gear, extra will is irrelevent I am already capped on TM or does this increase then? I could be a clutz here obviously, appreciate your further comments.

There's a set bonus for each spec, and the Lightning RK set bonus is an additional 10% chance to proc Static Surge. That means every skill has a 20% chance to activate it, rather than a 10% chance. This makes a big difference for DPS.

Finally you say our numbers are low vs a 130 dummy? So what should a RK / Hunter / Warden be doing vs a lvl 130 dummy in my above scenario using T1 Raid gear? we are all experienced players here hunters weren't bow swapping etc and could do more than stated with current gear but you are saying all low... so how much should people be doing then IYO vs a lvl 130 dummy Yellow T1 kitted RK a Red Traited hunter T1 for example?

It's hard to say for me how much an RK should be doing without the set, but a Hunter should be able to sustain 130k+ DPS on a dummy with T1 raid gear. I haven't played my RK in a while, so even I'm not even able to make an estimate of what your DPS should be like with the set bonus, much less without. However, as a lower bound, I'll say that 120k should be easily achieved. I will try for myself and see whether I can verify that claim.
Edit: I was able to do 120k but I would consider it a reasonably lucky parse (without set bonus). However, given how much I dislike playing Lightning, I can't be bothered to try more parses. Average parse would be below 120k, though.

[Osglinthor]

Ok - 'silly request' yes but it just turns into a i hate RKs thread which I didnt want this to be ideally - and I did a test which I think some may find useful and get some information out of replies as this forum seems dead right now of any help for the class....

Same skill level as compared to what? I was comparing my RK and our kin leader and 2 other experienced hunters who all got round about the same parses with all their respective hunter T1 raid gear on same as my RK and another 2RKer with the same Tier 1 raid gear on....we all have maxxed out equivalent bows/rune stones and our RKs had the same LIs so did the hunters. As far as the RKs go we both have 200% tm and 28% crit rating no one used foods or any other outside char skills/buffs so id say that is a good baseline barring of course human skill in rotation if this is the factor then fine.

Set bonuses as I see for T2 is 'Bubble bonus' and 'Smouldering wrath' and some more Will so sorry I don't see where a big DPS increase for RKs here is coming from.... this is lightning testing so smouldering wrath is not relevant or am I missing something else on the gear, extra will is irrelevent I am already capped on TM or does this increase then? I could be a clutz here obviously, appreciate your further comments.

Finally you say our numbers are low vs a 130 dummy? So what should a RK / Hunter / Warden be doing vs a lvl 130 dummy in my above scenario using T1 Raid gear? we are all experienced players here hunters weren't bow swapping etc and could do more than stated with current gear but you are saying all low... so how much should people be doing then IYO vs a lvl 130 dummy Yellow T1 kitted RK a Red Traited hunter T1 for example?

How can you miss most important set bonus for yellow RK?
Ill not comment on others but warden should be able to pull 140k on avg with no set and no quick sweep/throne 25% bleed.

[Allyjspurs]

yeah i don't know how i missed the SS set bonus tbh - I will have to relook tonight - Honestly T2 wasnt on my radar as I have only just cleared T1 last few days and have other alts to maintain first.

Interesting so should be able to hit around 115k ish we must be doing something horrendously out on our rotations then need more dummy practice.

Thank you all for your comments been very helpful.

[Osglinthor]

yeah i don't know how i missed the SS set bonus tbh - I will have to relook tonight - Honestly T2 wasnt on my radar as I have only just cleared T1 last few days and have other alts to maintain first.

Interesting so should be able to hit around 115k ish we must be doing something horrendously out on our rotations then need more dummy practice.

Thank you all for your comments been very helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyP9Gvam--U you can check this one out,its with set so your rotation will be bit different probably but its worth checking videos of what others are doing if you didnt already

[Suzina]

I wouldn't trust the dps numbers posted by someone who's quoting anything other than unbuffed vs a training dummy.

You have to do multiple 3 minute parses on a training dummy just to figure out your approximate average. If someone is posting numbers form in a raid, or they want to tell you what their numbers are while running hope, scrolls, and other buffs, or they will only tell you dps numbers while they are grouped with a captain who's made them blade bother... then this person doesn't actually care about having accurate consistent comparisons of damage per second. They want their number to look bigger. They don't care about accuracy. If they get lucky and get some extra crits, they think "Great, now I have a good one to show off!" not, "Well that's not representative of the last couple tests, let me find a more typical parse to post."

95k on a training dummy unbuffed is fine. You'll do more in raids, we know this, but don't trust the numbers of anyone who gives you raid numbers only or buffed numbers only. Such people are less concerned with finding a consistent parse to measure changes in rotation or patch notes.

[Allyjspurs]

I wouldn't trust the dps numbers posted by someone who's quoting anything other than unbuffed vs a training dummy.

You have to do multiple 3 minute parses on a training dummy just to figure out your approximate average. If someone is posting numbers form in a raid, or they want to tell you what their numbers are while running hope, scrolls, and other buffs, or they will only tell you dps numbers while they are grouped with a captain who's made them blade bother... then this person doesn't actually care about having accurate consistent comparisons of damage per second. They want their number to look bigger. They don't care about accuracy. If they get lucky and get some extra crits, they think "Great, now I have a good one to show off!" not, "Well that's not representative of the last couple tests, let me find a more typical parse to post."

95k on a training dummy unbuffed is fine. You'll do more in raids, we know this, but don't trust the numbers of anyone who gives you raid numbers only or buffed numbers only. Such people are less concerned with finding a consistent parse to measure changes in rotation or patch notes.

thanks - had someone show me his dummy stats in game was using the galtrev dummy which is like lvl 90 is it? try a lvl 130 dummy for a start. as you say with Red cappys 15% speed up 5% damage buff and if blade brothered 15% on top min every 30secs std of war oath breakers yellow burg double enrage etc etc speed spouting numbers in raids is pointless I just want to know a simple unbuffed expectation of reasonable dps so we can compare kin output firstly, magic number seems to be to me 100k dps holding for 3mins you can do that unbuffed on the lvl130 dummy then come raid with support buffs we would have sufficient dps.

[AceDwarf]

how are people finding their dps output.

DPS output is one of those subjects that you will rarely get an honest answer about. Most people will show off their best parse as their 'normal' ( all the youtube videos you will see ) and will hide the low parses due to the fear of criticism.

At the moment RKs do the least damage out of all the DPS classes. We were out DPSing everyone with a mind numbingly boring rotation ( CA spam ) for too long. So this was to be expected.

Unbuffed ( no scrolls, hope, food etc etc ) and without the 4 piece set bonus, the bulk of my 3 minute parses on level 130 training dummy fall in the 95k - 110k range. There is the occasional high parse if the RNG gods are in your favor that goes upto 120k but its not the norm. I do not have the AM earrings.

On shorter parses, you can achieve higher numbers. Typically I have one high parse + 2 lower parses in the 3 minute parse.

[Allyjspurs]

Hi Ace thanks very much for posting. I agree with your figures myself. did some more testing No outside buffs - all the t1 Will kit was equipped so not set bonus. Had a fellow kinny who has the same armour and jewelry and same LIs, as I copied his, he was a lvl130 RK before me.

We both did 5 3 min parses each best both of us achieved was 109k worst was 89k - averaged all 10 runs we got just around 100k dps.

As a matter of interest my other kinny did a fire test - i dont have all the LIs for it my secondary kit is healing 5 3 mins parses lowest was 73k highest was 85k it was very noticeable that Fire has a smaller min/max spread so average about 78k.

Be interesting to see then the improvement the T2 sets would give with increased SS set or Smouldering wrath set.

[Aeviternus]

I wouldn't trust the dps numbers posted by someone who's quoting anything other than unbuffed vs a training dummy.

You have to do multiple 3 minute parses on a training dummy just to figure out your approximate average. If someone is posting numbers form in a raid, or they want to tell you what their numbers are while running hope, scrolls, and other buffs, or they will only tell you dps numbers while they are grouped with a captain who's made them blade bother... then this person doesn't actually care about having accurate consistent comparisons of damage per second. They want their number to look bigger. They don't care about accuracy. If they get lucky and get some extra crits, they think "Great, now I have a good one to show off!" not, "Well that's not representative of the last couple tests, let me find a more typical parse to post."

95k on a training dummy unbuffed is fine. You'll do more in raids, we know this, but don't trust the numbers of anyone who gives you raid numbers only or buffed numbers only. Such people are less concerned with finding a consistent parse to measure changes in rotation or patch notes.

You have got to be kidding. How delusional are you, that you accuse other people of distorting the numbers, just because you apparently don't meet the standard?

[Suzina]

You have got to be kidding. How delusional are you, that you accuse other people of distorting the numbers, just because you apparently don't meet the standard?

The only video linked in here of a training dummy fight, the person has hope, scrolls, food, and a +damage tome.

I'm sure you've noticed how difficult it is to get consistent numbers for comparing builds and rotations from raid groups where 11 other people can influence your results. Additionally there are mechanics that make it extremely difficult to test different builds. You might get an "eye" and have to run rather than dps. Or perhaps you're fighting the pale herald and have to hold dps at 60 million and just wait until after the next blood surge before you can dps. There's no reason to post raid numbers if you're looking for accurate comparisons between builds, rotations, & classes.


Now if someone wanted to test something that requires buffs, like if they wanted to test whether using an orange enamal and dagor infused parchment is good at the start of a fight or waiting until they have 3 tiers of writ of lightning on an enemy before using those things, then sure, it makes sense to use those buffs in those cases. But when someone asks "what's your dps?", they definitely mean unbuffed via level 130 training dummy. Anyone who treats improving their dps as a mini-game will be looking for a consistent basis of comparison. If you're actually using a +5% tome each time plus hope, scrolls, and food, that would be a waste. And the more you practice your dps rotation or theorycraft, the bigger a waste it would be!

[Osglinthor]

The only video linked in here of a training dummy fight, the person has hope, scrolls, food, and a +damage tome.

I'm sure you've noticed how difficult it is to get consistent numbers for comparing builds and rotations from raid groups where 11 other people can influence your results. Additionally there are mechanics that make it extremely difficult to test different builds. You might get an "eye" and have to run rather than dps. Or perhaps you're fighting the pale herald and have to hold dps at 60 million and just wait until after the next blood surge before you can dps. There's no reason to post raid numbers if you're looking for accurate comparisons between builds, rotations, & classes.


Now if someone wanted to test something that requires buffs, like if they wanted to test whether using an orange enamal and dagor infused parchment is good at the start of a fight or waiting until they have 3 tiers of writ of lightning on an enemy before using those things, then sure, it makes sense to use those buffs in those cases. But when someone asks "what's your dps?", they definitely mean unbuffed via level 130 training dummy. Anyone who treats improving their dps as a mini-game will be looking for a consistent basis of comparison. If you're actually using a +5% tome each time plus hope, scrolls, and food, that would be a waste. And the more you practice your dps rotation or theorycraft, the bigger a waste it would be!

If people want to parse unbuffed/undergeared thats ok.Video is linked just to help with rotation.Regardless how people parse/practice on dummy when you are going for what class should be able to do at its max you should use all self buffs you can.Scrolls/tomes arent rly that expensive that you cant spare few hours of their worth on parsing once in a while.And do majority of it unbuffed if thats your thing.

[Aeviternus]

The only video linked in here of a training dummy fight, the person has hope, scrolls, food, and a +damage tome.

I'm sure you've noticed how difficult it is to get consistent numbers for comparing builds and rotations from raid groups where 11 other people can influence your results. Additionally there are mechanics that make it extremely difficult to test different builds. You might get an "eye" and have to run rather than dps. Or perhaps you're fighting the pale herald and have to hold dps at 60 million and just wait until after the next blood surge before you can dps. There's no reason to post raid numbers if you're looking for accurate comparisons between builds, rotations, & classes.


Now if someone wanted to test something that requires buffs, like if they wanted to test whether using an orange enamal and dagor infused parchment is good at the start of a fight or waiting until they have 3 tiers of writ of lightning on an enemy before using those things, then sure, it makes sense to use those buffs in those cases. But when someone asks "what's your dps?", they definitely mean unbuffed via level 130 training dummy. Anyone who treats improving their dps as a mini-game will be looking for a consistent basis of comparison. If you're actually using a +5% tome each time plus hope, scrolls, and food, that would be a waste. And the more you practice your dps rotation or theorycraft, the bigger a waste it would be!

No one posted raid numbers. They posted dummy numbers. I can't speak for anyone else, but the ones I was talking about were completely unbuffed, at that. The video was linked by someone to show how to execute a proper rotation. No one would deny that the actual DPS figure in that video is with relatively lucky RNG, and not representative of an average parse, particularly without the raid set bonus.

Furthermore, unbuffed dummy parses are useful to gauge how good your own DPS is, relative to that of others.

[Rialtan]

No one posted raid numbers. They posted dummy numbers. I can't speak for anyone else, but the ones I was talking about were completely unbuffed, at that. The video was linked by someone to show how to execute a proper rotation. No one would deny that the actual DPS figure in that video is with relatively lucky RNG, and not representative of an average parse, particularly without the raid set bonus.

Furthermore, unbuffed dummy parses are useful to gauge how good your own DPS is, relative to that of others.

I dont comment on the parse in the video since without buff would be a 120k dps more or less. Dont even know if it worth to consume attunements or if it's better to consume them with EC instead. Rk dps is too RNG to really tell. I had same parses without buffs and without consuming attu so couldnt say

[Instand]

Really good dps on a dummy is 125k average w/o any % buffs. My kinship's members got 130k average w/o any % buffs (with remmo set). If u got 100k or less u should change your rotation.

[Zahu]

Let's start off by pointing out how silly this request is. Anyway, I have an RK, so thank goodness, I'm allowed to respond.

1) The players involved in the tests clearly don't have the same skill level, and even if they did, it's not a good idea to assess class balance by looking at the parses of very mediocre players.
2) The T1 raid gear means you're missing out on the set bonus, which changes rather a lot for RKs as well as Hunters, and not so much for Wardens (in terms of DPS, anyway).
3) Hunters have 10% passive mitigation penetration and another 4% from Pen. Shot, RKs have significantly more (15% from Writ isn't passive, but it only affects Lightning RKs, and 10% after every crit -> around 20%). Therefore, RKs would benefit substantially less from raid debuffs, meaning that dummy parses are skewed in favour of RKs.

So, while there's no denying that RKs are currently the worst commonly played DPS class to take to the raid, the means by which you attempted to verify this are by no means rigorous. Moreover, all of the numbers that you shared are very, very low, so your first priority should be getting better at your classes, rather than worry about class balance. RKs being a weak choice for DPS has been well known every since the bugfix that made fate give critical multiplier to tactical skills. If SSG decide to do something about it, great. There have been plenty of posts about it.

1) Wardens benefit a lot from 4 red set bonus.

2) The rk's being the weakest dps atm, while I agree with that, unfortunately is not SSG's opinion. Just watch what Cordovan stated in his last stream.

3) They did not plainly just fix a bug (fate one). They raised the cd of rk skil, which destroyed the rotation. As I have said numerous times in the past, when you want to nerf something, the last thing you do is to raise the cd of skills. Unfortunately, it is the easiest and laziest thing to do,and ofc SSG goes that way.

4) Unfortunately the rk numbers op posted are not low. The rk dps in dummy is around 95-100 on average. yeah if you are lucky with crits and procs you can go 115-120k. But that's it. Hunters are on totally different level atm, and in raid they go even higher, as you already correctly mentioned.

Rks are in the sad state of being in bottom dps atm (amongst the "raid" dps classes I mean-my red beorning and my red guardian are crying somewhere now). That was the result of an idiotic bug/rotation in the past, that was handled with an idiotic manner on behalf of SSG. The rk numbers of op are not wrong. They are sad and they clearly show how bad was the way that rks got nerfed. And there are more bad decisions that come our way. Unfortunately.

[Despotis]

Without any buffs or the raid set bonus, I'd say a really unlucky parse would be at least 105k and a really lucky one would be around 125k. These are the numbers I am seeing on my own.

As for the rk place in the dps hierarchy I think it's where it should be. The class is too easy to play and mobile while dpsing to be anywhere near the top.

[TiNdA-LoS]

Without any buffs or the raid set bonus, I'd say a really unlucky parse would be at least 105k and a really lucky one would be around 125k. These are the numbers I am seeing on my own.

As for the rk place in the dps hierarchy I think it's where it should be. The class is too easy to play and mobile while dpsing to be anywhere near the top.

I could agree with you if fire trait were in a better place.

[Rialtan]

1) Wardens benefit a lot from 4 red set bonus.

2) The rk's being the weakest dps atm, while I agree with that, unfortunately is not SSG's opinion. Just watch what Cordovan stated in his last stream.

3) They did not plainly just fix a bug (fate one). They raised the cd of rk skil, which destroyed the rotation. As I have said numerous times in the past, when you want to nerf something, the last thing you do is to raise the cd of skills. Unfortunately, it is the easiest and laziest thing to do,and ofc SSG goes that way.

4) Unfortunately the rk numbers op posted are not low. The rk dps in dummy is around 95-100 on average. yeah if you are lucky with crits and procs you can go 115-120k. But that's it. Hunters are on totally different level atm, and in raid they go even higher, as you already correctly mentioned.

Rks are in the sad state of being in bottom dps atm (amongst the "raid" dps classes I mean-my red beorning and my red guardian are crying somewhere now). That was the result of an idiotic bug/rotation in the past, that was handled with an idiotic manner on behalf of SSG. The rk numbers of op are not wrong. They are sad and they clearly show how bad was the way that rks got nerfed. And there are more bad decisions that come our way. Unfortunately.

Yellow spec is doomed since Cordovan keep saying on his streams that is completly fine. Kappa.

Average yellow dps is 120k in dummy id say. 140k if lucky (always without any buff ofc)

Yellow rk is unfixable cause they dont have the resources to develop a decent yellow rotation. According to the last hunters changes about fire dmg, just bring back red rk and gg.

[Instand]

As for the rk place in the dps hierarchy I think it's where it should be. The class is too easy to play and mobile while dpsing to be anywhere near the top.

Exactly. Rk was the best dps class a lot of time cuz they have dnf. Other dps classes were useless. I guess there were two ways: reduce rk's dps and save dnf, or delete dnf from red and yellow lines and save dps.
What about rk's dps now - he is good, less then hunter, but still good.

[Rialtan]

Exactly. Rk was the best dps class a lot of time cuz they have dnf. Other dps classes were useless. I guess there were two ways: reduce rk's dps and save dnf, or delete dnf from red and yellow lines and save dps.
What about rk's dps now - he is good, less then hunter, but still good.

You cant be top dps cause you have an utility lol. Wasnt top dps in term of raw dps cause warden and burg were still superior. Was more suitable in raid cause of burst required on boss 1 and larvas on boss 2 and yeah, Dnf is a good utility.

Rk isnt good. Warden can parse 160/220k depending on rotation and luck. Burg same, ive seen 190/200k dps. Hunter 160/165k, prolly more now with the fire skills buff.

Rk can get 140k on a very lucky day with an average 120/130k. A dnf isnt worth such a gap especially if the lack of dps prevent you from killing a boss.

[Rialtan]

Without any buffs or the raid set bonus, I'd say a really unlucky parse would be at least 105k and a really lucky one would be around 125k. These are the numbers I am seeing on my own.

As for the rk place in the dps hierarchy I think it's where it should be. The class is too easy to play and mobile while dpsing to be anywhere near the top.

On what planet the ease of play would affects your spot in dps chart? Lol. Every class should be viable in same way, is not a Rks players fault if devs cant make it complicated. There's ppl maining rk since years, way before yellow spec became relevant.