When will you fix everything?

[Moskva]

Cry from the heart

I welcome the community from different countries, moderators and developers (if they read the forum, but I hope)!
LM a very useful class today and at the same time, broken from many sides. Why create new game servers when the game has a lot of problems that need to be solved urgently? I think I will never understand such logic.
LM I am very upset for this class now, as it is badly broken.

1. Long animation skills (how many years have passed, have not been fixed)
2. Pet's bug (run away and disappear, do not respond to commands)
3. The blue branch now as a separate branch is not playable, only in combination with others there is still some sense in it.
4. A yellow arrow appears above the head of a bear, which can be seen in many other bears in locations (for example, near Gondamon). Why is it still not fixed?


They constantly do something with other classes, but LM they bypass it. Some new pet, skills, and more. All the same. The same problems ...
I'm sorry, I wrote through Google translite

The game does not have such a huge number of players to create and create new servers, but it’s better to deal with the problems that are known today. The game has a lot of bugs, lags and other problems. There are racial skills that need to be updated. For example, a bear has +100 rage and adds up to 6k hp ... when a bear has at least 300k hp now ... aren't you funny for such moments? I am offended.

[Pavlin]

Short answer- Never.
Sadly, im not even trolling...

[Elmagor]

Cry from the heart

I welcome the community from different countries, moderators and developers (if they read the forum, but I hope)!
LM a very useful class today and at the same time, broken from many sides. Why create new game servers when the game has a lot of problems that need to be solved urgently? I think I will never understand such logic.
LM I am very upset for this class now, as it is badly broken.

1. Long animation skills (how many years have passed, have not been fixed)
2. Pet's bug (run away and disappear, do not respond to commands)
3. The blue branch now as a separate branch is not playable, only in combination with others there is still some sense in it.
4. A yellow arrow appears above the head of a bear, which can be seen in many other bears in locations (for example, near Gondamon). Why is it still not fixed?


They constantly do something with other classes, but LM they bypass it. Some new pet, skills, and more. All the same. The same problems ...
I'm sorry, I wrote through Google translite

The game does not have such a huge number of players to create and create new servers, but it’s better to deal with the problems that are known today. The game has a lot of bugs, lags and other problems. There are racial skills that need to be updated. For example, a bear has +100 rage and adds up to 6k hp ... when a bear has at least 300k hp now ... aren't you funny for such moments? I am offended.

4. It was discussed in Cord of the Rings and developers working on fix in one of next patches. 1-3 I don't see how they can fix it. Long animation skills looks perfect for LM, we don't need turn Gandalf into Kung Fu Panda. AI problems typical with all classes with pets and fixing that not easy in all. Blue line looking like "we put some random skills what don't have enough place red and yellow, and fine with that". I don't see in all how they can turn blue line pet as valuable member of team in high tier instances or raid without fixing AI and without adding them new skills. It's clear what all LM pets don't have enough skills, and LM already have too much skills for use. And increasing morale/DPS from pets just allow LM one-shot everying on landscape even on high levels.

[Melkorben]

Cry from the heart

I welcome the community from different countries, moderators and developers (if they read the forum, but I hope)!
LM a very useful class today and at the same time, broken from many sides. Why create new game servers when the game has a lot of problems that need to be solved urgently? I think I will never understand such logic.
LM I am very upset for this class now, as it is badly broken.

1. Long animation skills (how many years have passed, have not been fixed)
2. Pet's bug (run away and disappear, do not respond to commands)
3. The blue branch now as a separate branch is not playable, only in combination with others there is still some sense in it.
4. A yellow arrow appears above the head of a bear, which can be seen in many other bears in locations (for example, near Gondamon). Why is it still not fixed?


They constantly do something with other classes, but LM they bypass it. Some new pet, skills, and more. All the same. The same problems ...
I'm sorry, I wrote through Google translite

The game does not have such a huge number of players to create and create new servers, but it’s better to deal with the problems that are known today. The game has a lot of bugs, lags and other problems. There are racial skills that need to be updated. For example, a bear has +100 rage and adds up to 6k hp ... when a bear has at least 300k hp now ... aren't you funny for such moments? I am offended.

You right,
1. Long animation skills ruin the LM game play, it looks like more like a dancer than a caster.
2. Pets- useless, dated- more suitable as a cosmetic ones...
3. Blue line- useless, dated and most important- so boring!!!
4. Yellow arrow- dont care- I dont use pets.

Lately, mainly from these factors, I found my self less and less playing with my LM at end game contents.
In a game that so focused on DPS classes, this class (LM) is fading away

[Mithithil]

The problem, as ever is DPS. There's too much of it, and too many scenarios are simply a dps race. I have long assumed that in a situation where there are limited resources available for development a dps race is an easy encounter to code up. Alternative interpretations may be rude.

Things I'd give to the LM to make this less of an issue when grouping.

1. Increase Ancient Craft armour debuff. I had in mind +50% but an alternative could be to set it at the current maximum amount you can get without the tier down after 10s so that it can be up all the time if you know what you are about. While its a very crude yardstick it "sortakinda" drops melee armour to missile armour, missile armour to caster armour and caster armour is "ish" negated. Indded tune AC such that the crude example is the reality.
2. STOP making bosses and mini bosses immune to CC. High resistance is fine, that's what our finesse (and fix them!) our book legacies are about. Reduced CC duration may even be fine.
3. An interrupt skill that doesn't require a stun (see #2 above) that is at our control and has a sensible cd and can be instacast without induction. Eagle and staff strike are not really relevant here.
4. Bring back Deep Lore which automatically increased the number of targets affected by a Lore skill.
5. Who gives a [jolly firm words removed here, lots of them] what happens in Pv(M)P places? Stun immunity has been nerfed to pointlessness. Its time to bring it back to validity so that you can cover yoursefl and one other again. 18s CD and 20s duration, make it 10s cd and 25s duration.
6. Make the cd of Ents Go To War sensible. The skill is currently useless and needs some form of major rewrite. Damage + stun + root seems appropriate, say 5 targets get damaged, 5s stun and 25s root with 25% chnace of break on damage. Its meant to be (and used to be) a "big hit". If you want to reward skill stacking then Cracked Earth during the root duration does double damage, or automatic critcal or what have you
7. Somewhere in yellow line reduce the cd of Storm Lore and make it quite possible to get it down to a minute
8. Pets should have an extra skill accessible from Tutelage of the Brown Wizard if you are not giving the +3 levels back and exisiting skills should have their effects significantly enhanced with that capstone. Things like Roaring Challenge gets +2 targets, Lynx stealth stike is an automatic critical hit with 5s stun, the spirit pet can combat rez at the cost of its own existnece and cannot be resummoned for 20 minutes. Bog Gaurdian gives +a very large number Poison and Disease resistance AoE.
9. Inner Flame is currently more than just a little bit meh. Bringing that into line with the modern gamke perhaps it should be a percentage of the max morale pool per unit time, with an uninterrupted use being good for >25% morale return. Perhaps with the spirit pet you can focus it on someone else.
10. Back in the day Ancient Craft was the prerequisite before casting Lightning Storm. Give AC a specific debuff to Lightning damage mitigation and buff to damage as well as its normal effects, a debuff level similar to Sticky Tar for fire damage mitigation and increase. Do the same for Gust of Wind with Frost damage
Any and all of these may reset the balance a little. If dps and huge morale pools are here to stay give us the tools as a support class to give that support and tune our debuffs and support to reflect the party skills, and indeed the target's weaknesses.

And finally. The Ancient Master capstone should improve Knowledge of The Lore Master. Unless someone knows otherwise the values observed should be directly relateable to the LMs own resistances and mitigations, perhaps show the rating number rounded to the nearest 50K or somesuch.

[-Tanyc-]

They ruined the class years ago with the class revamp. Quoting from my post from 2014 here:

"I think every Lore-master will agree that the class is less fun to play these days.
My overall impression is that the class is unfinished, not polished after the class revamp.
(...)

List of recent Lore-master nerfs (with class revamp, some of it fixed/improved today but the class hasn't recovered from this):

Raven tactical mitigation aura removed
Raven ranged debuff skill Distraction not working properly
Wind-lore ranged debuff removed
Fire-lore single target
Fire-lore +targets legacy removed
Fire-lore potency only 30% with maxed legacy
Fire-lore miss chance debuff removed
Frost-Lore only single target
Gust of Wind single target
Gust of Wind miss chance debuff removed
Gust of Wind induction/animation broken
Deep lore trait removed
Master of the Staff trait removed
Burning embers +pulses legacy removed
Burning embers base number of pulses nerfed
Wizard's fire +pulses legacy removed
Herb-lore root removed (only in yellow)
Herb-lore +targets legacy removed
Water-lore incoming healing buff nerfed
SoP:Command +attack duration slow nerfed
SoP:R duration and cooldown nerfed
SoP:R has no icon in tanks vitals displaying buff duration
See all Ends -crit debuff not scaled
Power of Knowledge amount of power drained nerfed
Knowledge of Cures only single target
Light of the Rising Dawn cooldown nerfed
Ent cooldown nerfed
Test of Will removed (only in yellow)
Inductions on most skill longer

Pretty sure there's even more nerfs I forgot.

What we got (with class revamp):
Blinding Flash with Fast Loader function
No cooldown on Fire-Lore/Frost-Lore
Power Sharing without losing power
Wizard's fire AoE/Searing embers upgrade (broken atm)
Lightning Storm cooldown shorter
Sticky Gourd always Improved version
Sic'em skill that isn't fixed until today (need to command pets..)
Clever Escape skill.. "

[Zavad]

I would love to have a good and legitimate reason to pull my LM out of neglected retirement. I foresee none.

[Tatharil]

List of recent Lore-master nerfs (with class revamp, some of it fixed/improved today but the class hasn't recovered from this):

Raven tactical mitigation aura removed
Raven ranged debuff skill Distraction not working properly
Wind-lore ranged debuff removed
Fire-lore single target
Fire-lore +targets legacy removed
Fire-lore potency only 30% with maxed legacy
Fire-lore miss chance debuff removed
Frost-Lore only single target
Gust of Wind single target
Gust of Wind miss chance debuff removed
Gust of Wind induction/animation broken
Deep lore trait removed
Master of the Staff trait removed
Burning embers +pulses legacy removed
Burning embers base number of pulses nerfed
Wizard's fire +pulses legacy removed
Herb-lore root removed (only in yellow)
Herb-lore +targets legacy removed
Water-lore incoming healing buff nerfed
SoP:Command +attack duration slow nerfed
SoP:R duration and cooldown nerfed
SoP:R has no icon in tanks vitals displaying buff duration
See all Ends -crit debuff not scaled
Power of Knowledge amount of power drained nerfed
Knowledge of Cures only single target
Light of the Rising Dawn cooldown nerfed
Ent cooldown nerfed
Test of Will removed (only in yellow)
Inductions on most skill longer

Pretty sure there's even more nerfs I forgot.
"

Too add some more:
- Water-lore initial heal gone.
- Flank heals became a bad joke. It used to heal as much as a morale potion of same level now it even scales poorly in low lvl.
- Sword and Staff 20% melee damage bonus lost.
- Flank bonus damage scaling poorly.
- No more physical mastery from ANY main attribute anymore.
- Improved Flanking aka target of Air-lore receives flank heals as well.
- Beacon of Hope used to have 0,3 seconds induction preHD.

[Moskva]

I have been playing LM for 11 years already and I see that this class is simply breaking! Do developers read the forum ???
Why did they kill the blue branch? She is not independent at all! And buffs are imposed only by a pair of skills and all, from which there is very little sense in the group! Before LM he could heal himself, the pet and the group. He cannot treat the group now. Why did you do that? Why is this at all? LM Now only needed in the yellow branch, that's all. ALL! The rest of the class is utterly useless! I really want to run in the blue branch and give buffs to my group, but from the critical skill of the pet they go only to me! I am extremely disappointed

[Moskva]

And yes, the raven imposes a mitigation of tactical damage on so little that I would say nothing to him - zero!

[Elverior]

I have been playing LM for 11 years already and I see that this class is simply breaking! Do developers read the forum ???
Why did they kill the blue branch? She is not independent at all! And buffs are imposed only by a pair of skills and all, from which there is very little sense in the group! Before LM he could heal himself, the pet and the group. He cannot treat the group now. Why did you do that? Why is this at all? LM Now only needed in the yellow branch, that's all. ALL! The rest of the class is utterly useless! I really want to run in the blue branch and give buffs to my group, but from the critical skill of the pet they go only to me! I am extremely disappointed

There are buffs you can give your group if your pet does a critical hit.

Yes, yellow is the most usefull in group play but that does not mean the class is utterly useless. LM can still do a decent amount of AoE DPS if used correctly and blue also has it´s uses (very fun in 3 man with Blue/yellow instead of Yellow/blue)

[Elverior]

I honestly don´t understand why so many people seem to dislike the LM these days. I agree that some bugs and scalings need to be fixed but overall LM is at a really good spot right now.

Needed in 3/6/12-man, easy to solo, every Traitline has it´s use (yes blue can be improved with some major changes I know but it´s not completely useless)

And don´t get me started on the lists from -Tanyc- and Tatharil.
Why would we need physical mastery and a 20% meele damage legacy?

[Tatharil]

I honestly don´t understand why so many people seem to dislike the LM these days. I agree that some bugs and scalings need to be fixed but overall LM is at a really good spot right now.

Needed in 3/6/12-man, easy to solo, every Traitline has it´s use (yes blue can be improved with some major changes I know but it´s not completely useless)

And don´t get me started on the lists from -Tanyc- and Tatharil.
Why would we need physical mastery and a 20% meele damage legacy?

LM was a tactical melee hybrid. Melee damage and flank n spank used to be a huge part of lm dps. It was more fun to use flanking and a strong staffstrike. The choice of using flank for a good heal with improved flanking and aoe flank heal setbonus(od set, hytbold set) or for noticeable bonus damage on staffstrike. Lm nowadays is stun, embers loot, repeat. AITI is boring, but staffstrike and flanking are dead. Core mechanics of the preHD lm, that was way more fun.

[groucho42]

You right,
3. Blue line- useless, dated and most important- so boring!!!
4. Yellow arrow- dont care- I dont use pets.

Lately, mainly from these factors, I found my self less and less playing with my LM at end game contents.
In a game that so focused on DPS classes, this class (LM) is fading away

3. Huh? Now that I've moved all my war-steeds to medium because SSG hasn't scaled them, Sic 'Em stand out alone as the most enjoyable skill to use. Trample, the other funny one, has gone away.
4. Then you're a fool. Pets add to dps and not using them makes no sense.

I've been steady blue line for years, once in a blue moon going bad to red to remember buttons and to ensure my points are allocated. It's a fun skill.

The only thing I'd say is most of the pets are useless. Bear for tanking, lynx for dps, tiger for the occasional smile at having a larger cat. I've never understood why folks use the lurker, but some like it too. I can't remember when's the last time I saw other pets used.

[Melkorben]

3. Huh? Now that I've moved all my war-steeds to medium because SSG hasn't scaled them, Sic 'Em stand out alone as the most enjoyable skill to use. Trample, the other funny one, has gone away.

For RP and landscape yes, its a fun and enjoying skill, nothing more than that. WF makes more than twice damage than Sic Em for the same time.

4. Then you're a fool. Pets add to dps and not using them makes no sense.

Obviously I meant beside support the raid, if I wasn't clear about it Im sorry.

I used the Lurker for "pulling" skill when I did slayer deeds, its like another WF skill that you can use.

[Melkorben]

The problem, as ever is DPS. There's too much of it, and too many scenarios are simply a dps race. I have long assumed that in a situation where there are limited resources available for development a dps race is an easy encounter to code up. Alternative interpretations may be rude.

Things I'd give to the LM to make this less of an issue when grouping.

1. Increase Ancient Craft armour debuff. I had in mind +50% but an alternative could be to set it at the current maximum amount you can get without the tier down after 10s so that it can be up all the time if you know what you are about. While its a very crude yardstick it "sortakinda" drops melee armour to missile armour, missile armour to caster armour and caster armour is "ish" negated. Indded tune AC such that the crude example is the reality.
2. STOP making bosses and mini bosses immune to CC. High resistance is fine, that's what our finesse (and fix them!) our book legacies are about. Reduced CC duration may even be fine.
3. An interrupt skill that doesn't require a stun (see #2 above) that is at our control and has a sensible cd and can be instacast without induction. Eagle and staff strike are not really relevant here.
4. Bring back Deep Lore which automatically increased the number of targets affected by a Lore skill.
5. Who gives a [jolly firm words removed here, lots of them] what happens in Pv(M)P places? Stun immunity has been nerfed to pointlessness. Its time to bring it back to validity so that you can cover yoursefl and one other again. 18s CD and 20s duration, make it 10s cd and 25s duration.
6. Make the cd of Ents Go To War sensible. The skill is currently useless and needs some form of major rewrite. Damage + stun + root seems appropriate, say 5 targets get damaged, 5s stun and 25s root with 25% chnace of break on damage. Its meant to be (and used to be) a "big hit". If you want to reward skill stacking then Cracked Earth during the root duration does double damage, or automatic critcal or what have you
7. Somewhere in yellow line reduce the cd of Storm Lore and make it quite possible to get it down to a minute
8. Pets should have an extra skill accessible from Tutelage of the Brown Wizard if you are not giving the +3 levels back and exisiting skills should have their effects significantly enhanced with that capstone. Things like Roaring Challenge gets +2 targets, Lynx stealth stike is an automatic critical hit with 5s stun, the spirit pet can combat rez at the cost of its own existnece and cannot be resummoned for 20 minutes. Bog Gaurdian gives +a very large number Poison and Disease resistance AoE.
9. Inner Flame is currently more than just a little bit meh. Bringing that into line with the modern gamke perhaps it should be a percentage of the max morale pool per unit time, with an uninterrupted use being good for >25% morale return. Perhaps with the spirit pet you can focus it on someone else.
10. Back in the day Ancient Craft was the prerequisite before casting Lightning Storm. Give AC a specific debuff to Lightning damage mitigation and buff to damage as well as its normal effects, a debuff level similar to Sticky Tar for fire damage mitigation and increase. Do the same for Gust of Wind with Frost damage
Any and all of these may reset the balance a little. If dps and huge morale pools are here to stay give us the tools as a support class to give that support and tune our debuffs and support to reflect the party skills, and indeed the target's weaknesses.

And finally. The Ancient Master capstone should improve Knowledge of The Lore Master. Unless someone knows otherwise the values observed should be directly relateable to the LMs own resistances and mitigations, perhaps show the rating number rounded to the nearest 50K or somesuch.

I like your ideas ^^
You should put it also under Bullroarer Class Feedback Forum

[groucho42]

For RP and landscape yes, its a fun and enjoying skill, nothing more than that. WF makes more than twice damage than Sic Em for the same time.

This is the same problem I've mentioned on multiple class forums. The creation of trait trees has almost ruined the game. Every class thinks it needs to be the best dps class in the game. The concept of support classes has gone by the wayside. SSG has supported that by making almost all instances a version of turtle, a dps race.

What I loved in the old days (And stay off my lawn!) was using my support classes as support. LMs have great debuffs and other skills that helped a raid.

As for pure dps, I don't run stats; but I've played my LM in blue forever and he kills things fast. It's one of my better dps toons, faster than not just my guard, but my warden, and captain too. I don't think he's far from my RK, and he's more survivable than the RK because the stones don't last as long as do pets.

The only thing I miss about redline is that I used to want to take 12 LMs into a raid and all put down fire at the same time, to see if we could crash the instance.

[EtherEel]

Lore-masters are still suffering from the total-class-destruction that came with Trait-trees with the Helm's Deep expansion (L85). The then developers aimed for 3-and-only-3 types of classes: Tank, Healer, DPS. Support classes were all broken -- Captains got subsequent class adjustments, they became awesome healers, now they are primo tanks (sry Guards.) Burglars lives eventually have mattered and they are viable again. No Devs since Helm's Deep have had the remotest clue what to do with LMs, as a result the class is "all over the place." The worst part may be that non-LM players don't understand what the purpose of the class is either [an old problem, now just very much worse.]

As I see it, the basic problem is that LMs not only have (overly-)long inductions, but (overly-)long animations as well. The inductions need to be synchronized to the animations in most cases, and some of the animations need to be revised -- yes, Frost-lore should have animation similar to Fire-lore (ie. quick); See All Ends animation has always been silly-long and just plain silly looking. Also too long: Gust of Wind, Cracked Earth, Blinding Flash, Ents... , Lightning-Strike, Lightning-Storm.... everything except Wizard's Fire essentially (lol.)

Then there is the matter of overly-long cool-downs. Combined with long indux and long anims, it gets ridiculous.

Then on top of these things, LMs are are no longer "masters" of anything, but "journeymen." The point of the Lore-master was that it had such a huge variety of skills that it was always useful; now the Lore-master only excels at debuffing -- but what good is that, really, when the "content" is all about DPS races?! The answer: better than nothing. Even passing Power is on a cooldown (it didn't start that way...). AND don't even get me started on Sign of Power: Righteousness (Stun Immunity) !

Right from the beginning, I have been a LM Main (see date in top right corner.) I will not give up on my LM !!! Do we need to start a "Lore-master Lives Matter, Too" campaign?! If you devs need help figuring out what to do with this once-best-in-game class, just ask us, dammit!



>>> So, TL;DR: LMs got the shaft as of L85. Content is not being made with LMs in mind. <<<

I'm tired of being angry about this. It's been too long (overly-).

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