Balance and SSG logic.

[0987654321]

Well I'm confused then. If you understand that dps and crit stats are capped currently, what are you hoping the pvp armor will do? Just nerf morale and mitigations? I understand not wanting to be one shot I get that, but that's purely a mechanic of dps. That has nothing to do with morale. If your argument is that pvp armor caps dps well it's already capped for all of the players you want to wear the armor. Now you just want to kill them faster by capping their morale too it sounds like.

Personally i hope that PvP armour will give freeps a fairly standard base of stats that creeps can be balanced against. Will it be perfect? of course not, but i think it will be a lot better than now. You wont have freeps with 700k morale and 200k morale. Less of an insane gap

[SingularityNow]

Personally i hope that PvP armour will give freeps a fairly standard base of stats that creeps can be balanced against. Will it be perfect? of course not, but i think it will be a lot better than now. You wont have freeps with 700k morale and 200k morale. Less of an insane gap

There is a fairly standard base of stats that creeps can be balanced against right now. Off the top of my head it's 630k Crit and 800k Mastery maybe? Turbine said that they've put in tools that are going to allow them to more quickly tune creeps to rising freep stats. So when the Crit Cap goes to 800k and Mastery goes to 1m, then you will be adjusted accordingly. Morale is no different. If you hit your stat caps in terms of crit and mastery, you can pretty easily figure out what the new morale cap is if you were so inclined. Why do you need another mechanism?

Freeps have a mechanism to meet the caps, it's called playing pve.

[Yuzuriha_EN]

I can say this only.

1. i can die from a norbog im a bad player i got to a mad mode that means how pathetic can i be. So the noob kromiel who got killed with a champ in a 2vs1 from your spider before update make this post cause garbage needs to cry.

I couldn’t agree more.

played the guardian with a level 95, rank 10 and then retired ...

The Lord of the Rings Online: Rise of Isengard
Rise of Isengard
- September 27, 2011
- Nickname RoI
- Level cap 75

True, retired my freeps being server top and at Dec, 2011. That means 9 years ago, means before you even started to play, according to your impressive 4 year frame...

Something any of you, nabs, will never achieve.







PS: You are misguided, erroneous, fallacious, unwarranted, unfounded, unsound, misplaced, misconceived, unwise, deluded, wrong, mistaken... saying the "Queen of Evernight", is a "He". ROFL

[TronGilrain]

You guys just don't understand big SSG plan. They made very elite service when they balanced creeps around best geared freeps. Freepside numbers were limited by VIP restrictions. Now it's challenge for best of the best. I'm totally shocked looking at freeps for last 13 years they not flocking to etten looking for ultimate challenge when they conquered lvl 130 raids. I don't have any symphathy for hardcore freep players who were backstabbed by their mates who were camping gramms with them when balance shifted they shooting them from BAs. Etten should be las and biggest challenge for freeps from top tier kins who already have nothing to do in Lotro. I don't understand why Vastin say that they can't do pvp armour when they made so many (2 full sets of armour and jewellery from stairs and AD) for this mini expansion. They have no problem to change item lvl in loot boxes and ember boxes in almost every update to game so where is problem with just update current pvp gear to power 130 lvl? No one would cry about looks of this sets just change numbers and lets go. Pls VASTIN enlight us where is problem with pvp armour.

[Ethrildar]

There is a fairly standard base of stats that creeps can be balanced against right now. Off the top of my head it's 630k Crit and 800k Mastery maybe?

Freeps have a mechanism to meet the caps, it's called playing pve.

Is this post intentionally ignorant or are you really overlooking the obviously omitted detail here? To get this straight, you're genuinely suggesting that a "damage (crit/mastery) capped" Freep with 200k morale is identical to a damage capped Freep with 750k morale and that balancing against one is balance for the other and everything in-between? Right now Creeps are balanced against the 1% of Freepside (and even still over-tuned in defensive ratings) when the 99% are working with literally a quarter of the stats.

Regarding "playing pve", read Spilo's posts, after a long time on Creepside he tried the Freepside grind and got precisely a week in before abandoning it. A week, with numerous friends who helped him do T3-5 raids, so he had a far easier time of it than most players would. Not trying to single him out, simply point out that even someone with a will and intent to gear up often cannot.

"Playing pve" is the statement of someone who's never actually had to try it. Go do Shelob Tier 5 with a PUG and enjoy the 4% drop rate of T5 bracelets, so farm it on every alt, every week for the next three months until you get the bracelets you need... Do you honestly think the 99% of the player-base that do not have T5 bracelets simply don't have them because they can't be bothered to run a little PvE for a ~100k morale boost? Short-sighted isn't even the word.

I don't have any symphathy for hardcore freep players who were backstabbed by their mates who were camping gramms with them when balance shifted they shooting them from BAs.

Interesting you should say this, as I don't partake in GV or Grams camps, but more often than not when it's a camp I see this new range of names I've never seen before, Creeps/Freeps that come out of the woodwork when ezmode hits one side or the other. I'd say the majority of Creeps camping Grams when there's a huge Freep buff are probably Creepside flippers, the same ones that right now are camping GV on BAs and Defilers.

The solid Freeps/Creeps I see, those that are respectable soloers/small groupers, I never see those players in said camps unless passively observing from the sidelines.

[Jakreal]

So you dont like the action ??? Should ask spilo, sarumanofistilldontknowwhothat is, and the other yesman's who blame the action on something else. They even made a silly thread about it.

[SingularityNow]

Is this post intentionally ignorant or are you really overlooking the obviously omitted detail here? To get this straight, you're genuinely suggesting that a "damage (crit/mastery) capped" Freep with 200k morale is identical to a damage capped Freep with 750k morale and that balancing against one is balance for the other and everything in-between?

No. Do you often accuse others of being ignorant when you're dealing with concepts going over your head?

[Laerthan1997]

No. Do you often accuse others of being ignorant when you're dealing with concepts going over your head?

Normaly I wouldn't approve calling someone else ignorant, but, saying that the only thing devs should balance creeps against is freeps offensive stat cap (which you got wrong by the way, it's actually 630 000 crit (soft cap that can be overcapped for more devastate chance and more critical magnitude) and 850500 mastery (hard cap), but you also not even responded to his point about the disparity between a 200k morale freep with capped offensive stats but very little mitigations (typical tier 1 raid gear) or a freep with 600k+ morale with capped offensive stats and some mitigations (typical t4+ raid gear with Shadowed king earrings). You also forgot to mention the finesse stat, which is another important one in my opinion. So either you are being willfully ignorant or are just unfamiliar with a lot of the aspects of the game.

[SingularityNow]

Normaly I wouldn't approve calling someone else ignorant, but, saying that the only thing devs should balance creeps against is freeps offensive stat cap (which you got wrong by the way, it's actually 630 000 crit (soft cap that can be overcapped for more devastate chance and more critical magnitude) and 850500 mastery (hard cap),

Off the top of my head it's 630k Crit and 800k Mastery maybe?

...

[Ethrildar]

...

Your rebuttal to my point was to personally attack me whilst completely dodging the question?

I'll ask again, are you suggesting that a mastery-capped player with 200k morale is indentical to balance against as a 700k morale player also with the mastery at cap?

If so, let's leave "things going over people's heads" out of it, for your own sorry sake

[SingularityNow]

Your rebuttal to my point was to personally attack me whilst completely dodging the question?

No, you called me intentionally ignorant. I ignored the rest of what you had to say and pointed out that that behavior is typically found in stupid people. Perhaps if you don't want to whine about people making negative commentary about you, you should refrain from doing it first. I don't think we have anything more to talk about. You can go get into some silly argument with others. Seems to be your m.o.

[Spilo]

So you dont like the action ??? Should ask spilo, sarumanofistilldontknowwhothat is, and the other yesman's who blame the action on something else. They even made a silly thread about it.

What? The action is bad because of an imbalance in gearing and ease of access? I'm sure I never brought up that issue in my feedback! Thanks for your quality feedback, Jak! Always a pleasure speaking with someone who is always up front and honest with his communication!

[Jakreal]

What? The action is bad because of an imbalance in gearing and ease of access? I'm sure I never brought up that issue in my feedback! Thanks for your quality feedback, Jak! Always a pleasure speaking with someone who is always up front and honest with his communication!

No instead the backdoors were blamed for the action. You guys had one shot of a good update and wasted it complaining about the backdoor, which does nothing to action. Next thing to complain about will be the one shots at gv.

[Starkorm]

Next thing to complain about will be the one shots at gv.

If there's no one shots the freeps HAVE to come out to fight. They should be removed for the future health of the Ettenmoors and continued prosperity of LotRO PvP.

[Ethrildar]

If there's no one shots the freeps HAVE to come out to fight. They should be removed for the future health of the Ettenmoors and continued prosperity of LotRO PvP.

Agreed. I mean, we can't leave GV anyway so what's the harm in just giving up GV entirely and simply not entering the Moors at all.

[TronGilrain]

No instead the backdoors were blamed for the action. You guys had one shot of a good update and wasted it complaining about the backdoor, which does nothing to action. Next thing to complain about will be the one shots at gv.

We can complain about one shoots in gv when they can be killed by creeps. Not like one in gramms can be by freeps riiiight? When you can be killed by warg sitting safe on gv stairs you will trully know what creeps had to deal with since Mordor expansion. Backdoors were doing nothing to action? OMG best joke i heard this year!

[Ethrildar]

We can complain about one shoots in gv when they can be killed by creeps.

I think you missed the point there....

[zaboch]

No instead the backdoors were blamed for the action. You guys had one shot of a good update and wasted it complaining about the backdoor, which does nothing to action. Next thing to complain about will be the one shots at gv.

Backdoors are utterly terrible, using them in-combat is a joke of a system as it allowed brainless shuffling.
Creeps buffs were entirely justified and right now, they sit in an amazing spot. However, key to balance is that there's two sides that you balance against each other and it seems that Creeps are currently sitting really well at high T4-5 AD/Remm Freepwise, which is an issue cause 99% of Freeps are garbage that complain T1 Fire is still too hard.
PVP standardized gear, with smaller progressions within based on rank, should've been implemented on Freepside, it's stats relatively matching at least T3-4 AD gear and barring other gear from the Moors. Then you'd have actual balance.

As it stands, it's far too cheap for a brainlet Creep to defeat a brainlet Freep cause it takes 0 effort due to gear skewing.

[BlitzKr1eg]

It's funny when creeps complain about one-shoots, like Barrage and Snare required any skills to get easy kills this time a year ago.

[Elmagor]

It's funny when creeps complain about one-shoots, like Barrage and Snare required any skills to get easy kills this time a year ago.

It's funny when freeps complain about one-shoots when they one-shot low ranked creeps for years.

[ithinkiamserious]

It's funny when freeps complain about one-shoots when they one-shot low ranked creeps for years.

Creeps have been able to one-shot undergeared and level-scaled freeps for years.

[Magnumum]

It's funny when creeps complain about one-shoots, like Barrage and Snare required any skills to get easy kills this time a year ago.

lol yeah that's why all the creeps played in the Black-Arrow.

[Elmagor]

Creeps have been able to one-shot undergeared and level-scaled freeps for years.

Not all classes of creeps, and I rarely seen that. If level-scalled or undergeared freep enter Ettens, it's his decision. He have huge amount of content and decide not to do it. While creeps don't have any choice - they have only 1,5 location

[Nouri]

First, it was really good to see that SSG put a lot of time and effort into the recent PvMP update. It sounds like, with the work they did, it will be much easier to make adjustments to creep stats in the future. It has been a long time since a major creep update, so I have to give them a lot of credit for the work they did there. With that said, as well-intentioned as the work they did was, they put the cart before the horse. It's impossible to try to balance creeps against freeps and strike a good balance when there is such a huge gap between well-geared freeps wearing T5 gear and freeps wearing quest gear or T1 gear. Trying to do so has resulted in the situation that we now see in the Moors: a map with all red keeps more than 90% of the time, and 95% of the action taking place in front of the steps of GV. Until such time as they implement PvP gear, we will keep seeing these hit-and-miss attempts at balancing because there are no benchmark stats for freeps to balance against.

[Nouri]

The solution would appear to be fairly simple. Since from what I've read, creeps appear to be pretty well-balanced against freeps with BiS gear, put 'Moors use only' BiS gear at the vendors in GV. No new gear sets needed for PvMP, and just keep balancing creeps against those sets.