Does race really matter that much?

[Gelmit]

I want to create a dwarf champ, but people keep telling me not to because their animations are too slow. They say I won't get invited to groups if I'm a dwarf champ. Does the race/animations really make that much of a difference?

[Hephburz-2]

I want to create a dwarf champ, but people keep telling me not to because their animations are too slow. They say I won't get invited to groups if I'm a dwarf champ. Does the race/animations really make that much of a difference?

You would still get invited, however you are undoubtedly hindering yourself by choosing it, because, as others have said, they have slower animations compared to the other races that play champ and as a result WILL do less damage.

[Barivak]

You would still get invited, however you are undoubtedly hindering yourself by choosing it, because, as others have said, they have slower animations compared to the other races that play champ and as a result WILL do less damage.

True (maybe*). But does the damage difference really matter that much?

That WILL be a matter of opinion depending on how you approach the game, and how inclusive you want to be. Name a single instance, raid or quest where the difference between success and failure was dependent on having that Stout-Axe Dwarf instead of an Elf at Fire RK. And to take it further "success and failure" for some, prioritizes playing with others and making things work out.

I think there are maybe a hundred people alive who remotely care about LOTRO "parses." It's mostly in people's heads (THEREFORE, you better pick the faster animation race and yes this is worse for Champs than any other class but Raids are a bug-laggy mess anyway half the time and skill >>>race etc)

* There is very little hard data on this, even the Reddit searches estimate a percentage on combat animations. Is it less? Sure. But imho, who cares unless there is a long line for Lotro content that I missed where everyone is watching the clock.

[Strider5548]

True (maybe*). But does the damage difference really matter that much?

That WILL be a matter of opinion depending on how you approach the game, and how inclusive you want to be. Name a single instance, raid or quest where the difference between success and failure was dependent on having that Stout-Axe Dwarf instead of an Elf at Fire RK. And to take it further "success and failure" for some, prioritizes playing with others and making things work out.

I think there are maybe a hundred people alive who remotely care about LOTRO "parses." It's mostly in people's heads (THEREFORE, you better pick the faster animation race and yes this is worse for Champs than any other class but Raids are a bug-laggy mess anyway half the time and skill >>>race etc)

* There is very little hard data on this, even the Reddit searches estimate a percentage on combat animations. Is it less? Sure. But imho, who cares unless there is a long line for Lotro content that I missed where everyone is watching the clock.

It matters to anyone who raids. This isn't the case for FoKD, but both Remm and AD were full on DPS races, so every bit counts. I say this as someone who plays a man hunter (and has cleared current T5 raids). A Dwarf champ won't kill your chances at getting into a group, but if you want to do high tier raids then you will have to deal with people judging you and picking other people before you simply because of your race.

Ironic because Champs were inspired by Gimli.

[Omen_Kaizer]

Name a single instance, raid or quest where the difference between success and failure was dependent on having that Stout-Axe Dwarf instead of an Elf at Fire RK.

That's a poor comparison. Stout axe fire RK will get <1% more dps from the +3% fire damage trait due to how additive bonuses work there.

Frame count difference between dwarf and man champs doing the same rotation was shown by Gertes in that one ~2015 thread to be more like 10% difference, and kinda corroborated by folks doing frame counts in Ghyn discord (see below) in April. To be clear, that means everything is stil doable, but it's a noticeable handicap for the individual and a small one for a raid (but who hasn't wiped at 1% left on boss?). It's less damage for dwarf comparing Gelmit the dwarf champ to Gelmit the woman champ, not necessarily Gelmit the dwarf champ to Joepug the HE champ.

Basically agree with Hephburz. It's not nothing but shouldnt earn someone automatic declines from anyone but the most toxic of pug leaders. In a steady raiding kin, the leader is going to care about and get familiar with your dps numbers on dummy and/or lower tier farmed raids (i.e. t2 FoKD) and your movement/mechanics, as well as that of the other champs.

I found my stats for Dwarf vs Man
Dwarf

116 rend
117 wa
128 brutal

Man

110 rend
113 WA
95 brutal
Those are the frames for each skill.
I didn't bother doing them all cuz it's annoying as hell to do.

Link if you're in Ghyn's discord.

[MimDerZwerg]

I chose Dwarf champion back then because its exactly what a champion is in my opinion.
Armored and stacked with weapons to the teeth.
And the look of a dwarf with an axe greater than himself is awesome <3.

Nevertheless I just valar'd a high elf Champion to see myself if it does matter for me.
And I am really disappointed because it is.
Even with Legacies at LVL 53 I almost reach the same DPS on a dummy as with a maxed dwarf LI.

I also noticed that it is less laggy.
Makes me feel that the dwarf animations do not benefit from attack speed bonus. (not proven by trace or alike).