Are Minstrel buffs working correctly ?

[Technician46]

Hi Devs,

As a Minstrel I've just assumed in the past that the mini's buff are working correctly until recently. What leaded me to this discovery was my constant desire to improve my heals. This lead me to check the so called minstrel anthems and and skills buffs on the tooltips of these skill/buffs. As I was testing my healing I notice that when I applied, "Anthem of the 3rd Age - Resonance" the tooltip says that I am suppose to receive the following buffs/effects :
1) + 10% Outgoing Healing
2) - 25% to all skill inductions

Without the +10 Outgoing healing buff from "Anthem of the 3rd Age", my normal outgoing healing is at 80% which is the limit a Minstrel can reach w/o other buffs(food)/traits/gear etc... . Upon looking at my character's outgoing healing stat I notice that my outgoing healing didn't increase to 90% after applying "Anthem of the 3rd Age" which is what I assumed would happen per skill tooltip. So I thought to myself that maybe it didn't increase cause I was at 80% which is the soft cap for Minstrels and thought it strange. So I decided to lower my normal outgoing healing to about 70% and retest only to find out that the stat remained at 70% despite the tooltip saying it should increase by +10%. I further tested this finding by lowering the outgoing healing to about 60% and found the same results. The other effect (buff) did reduce the induction of my skills but the +10% outgoing buff did not apply..

So upon finding this problem I decided to also tested, "Major Ballad". As you all know part of the effect of Major Ballad according to the tooltip is to increase your outgoing healing by +6 % per stack. You can stack the effect 3x so you would assume it would increase our outgoing healing by 18% but it did not, at least not according to the stats reflected on my character's stat panel. Upon further testing Major Ballad I notice that my tactical damage increase by 3% per the 2nd effect of this skill so this part is working correctly. I further tested MB by lowering my outgoing healing as I did previously for "Anthem of the 3rd Age" to 70% and 60% and the results were the same...... THE +18% BUFF DID NOT APPLY AT LEAST ACCORDING TO THE CHARACTER STAT PANEL. . The outgoing healing % remained the same.

The funny thing (not so funny actually) is that I switch over to red line but stayed in Resonance stance and tested the healing effects of Major Ballad again. The primary effects of MB in red line is to increase your healing by +3% per stack (not +6%), 3 stack max for a total of 9% increase to outgoing healing but the effect(buff) did not apply at all and therefore is NOT working correctly in red line either at least its not reflecting in the character stat panel. The secondary effects (buffs) seem to be working and stacking correctly. I did receive the +10% increase to outgoing healing that comes from just being in resonance stance even while in red line so that effect/buff is working.

I did NOT test all the other effects related to healing for example buff or stat increases from being in yellow line. I would suspect the same results from MB in yellow line while in resonance stance. Can someone please confirm my result and let the Devs know that those particular skill buffs are not working according to the tooltip description.

On an added note, Devs please take a look at minstrel heals particularly the HoTs on some of these skills and the aoe of MB which is ONLY 8 meters. I desperately feel these need to be update/increased given all the reasons mentioned on my previous post.

Thank You and I look forward to any input from the Devs in these matters.

[WeirdJedi]

This was a fascinating read, so I decided to do an experiment myself. The first thing I wanted to attempt was whether or not a non-minstrel outgoing healing stat was updated. With the help of my captain, I noticed that both Relentless Attack and the Battle-hardened Outgoing Healing Buff legacy both increased the stat in the character sheet.

Then I checked my minstrel. It is level 130 and sitting at around 68% in Resonance Stance. As you mentioned, my character's sheet was not updating for any of the abilities. However, that was the only thing I saw out of place. The tool-tips for each of my abilities properly updated each time I used any of my abilities and the amount I was healed, on average, increased as well.

There are a lot of issues and bugs in this game. Just hop over to any class forum to check it out. This does not invalidate this problem. But this is merely a cosmetic problem, not a mechanical one. So I don't think it is high on their priority list to fix.

[Technician46]

Thanks, but I'm not 100% sure its just a cosmetic problem. My heals seem to be about the same and the increase would total up to +28% just from:
1) +10% from Anthem of the 3rd Age plus
2) +18 from Major Ballad buffs
This doesn't include an additional 15% from "Inspiring Finish" trait when you cash out Coda of Resonance. So the +28% increase itself would see a pretty significant buff to our heals let alone an additional 15% from Coda of Resonance and lets not forget an additional +10% from the trigger essence. So if we manage to get all these buffs to work together (and it's not difficult to time them together) we would see a total increase to our outgoing healing of :
1) +10% - Anthem of the 3rd Age
2) +18% - Major Ballad buffs/effects
3) +15% - Coda of Resonance
4) +10% - Trigger Essence (Mender's Moonlight Trigger Essence)

for a additional +53% increase to our outgoing healing. If my present outgoing healing is at +80% and we add +53% to it (given all the buffs are applied at the same time), we would have a grand total of 133% outgoing healing which is very significant and we would definitely notice the difference. So its my opinion that its NOT cosmetic and there is something definitely wrong. The total tooltip themselves are correct but the buff/increases don't reflect either on the character stat panel or in our healing.

[WeirdJedi]

I'm not very good when it comes to figuring out the exact math of things. Some of these might only add a percentage on top of a percentage. But one thing I do know is that the game has added diminishing returns when things go beyond a certain limit. This means that even though the rating of something still goes beyond the cap, the actual amount rewarded is only a fraction of the potential.

[Joedangod]

But one thing I do know is that the game has added diminishing returns when things go beyond a certain limit.

The diminishing returns aren't really a thing that was added so much as "This is how additive % increases work". Every 5% outgoing healing you add...increases outgoing healing by the same amount. There's no diminishing returns there. It's just when you start getting to a higher baseline % that 5% starts looking less and less significant. Going from 0 to 5% outgoing healing is a 5% increase in output, going from 1000% to 1005% is a 0.5% increase in output because your base % was so high to begin with*.

*Numbers exaggerated to make the point.

[subadar]

Valid points OP!

but everything is working as intended.

nothing to see here, please move on.

[Technician46]

Hi guys,

so I've been doing a little more digging into this problem of skill buffs not increase the character panel stat and found what could be another problem. Let me explain, so when I trait for healing I of course equip blue line traits and also go into yellow line traits. The yellow line traits I spend points on are:
1) Anthem of Composure
2) Improved Inspire Fellows
3) Extended Anthems
4) Raise our spirits and
5) Of All Trades

As I examined "Of All trades" it says we get the following buffs at rank 4:
1) +12% Outgoing Healing Effect Modifier
2) +12% Tactical Damage

so seeing this description I assumed I would receive a +12% to Outgoing Healing and Tactical Damage. Upon checking my character stat panel I found it wasn't so. Realizing this I opened my character stat panel and then went into my yellow line to re-specialized and clear all the point from the traits panel. After clearing all the points I proceed in adding only 2 point into yellow line on "Anthem of Composure" and accepted the change. I then looked at my character stat panel and noted the the Tactical Mastery and Outgoing healing:
1) Tactical Mastery = 204.7%
2) Outgoing Healing = 64.6%

After noting the stats I re-specialized again to clear all the points off of yellow line and proceeded to reapply points but this time to:
1) Anthem of Composure = 2 point
2) Improved Inspire Fellows = 8 point
3) Extended Anthems = 10 points and then
4) Of All Trades = 8 points

I purposely avoided the "Tactical Mastery" trait that adds tactical mastery and increases not only tactical damage but outgoing healing. I accepted this set up w/o adding any additional points to yellow or any other line. After accepting I open my character stat panel again to see if "Of All Trades" buff effect would affect my stats and saw that my Tactical Mastery went up to 216.7% and my Outgoing healing remained the same. Now granted the trait tooltip says, " +12% Outgoing Healing EFFECT MODIFER" so I'm not 100% sure if that's the same as +12% Outgoing healing so I could be wrong here. We'll need clarification from the Devs as to the correct meaning. As you see the tactical mastery buff did affect my stats on the character panel by the +12% from the trait but it DID NOT affect my outgoing healing

So the bottom line is that I'm not sure now if spending trait points on this trait will benefit anyone who is trying to gain an additional +12% to their outgoing healing.

Devs really need to look into this cause then we are just wasting TRAIT POINTS and the traits are not working properly.

[Joedangod]

Have you also been checking tooltip values for heals to observe a difference or are you literally just looking at the stats section?

[Technician46]

Have you also been checking tooltip values for heals to observe a difference or are you literally just looking at the stats section?

I have only been looking at the stats. I didn't think of looking at the actual tooltip value of the heals. I will at a look into that. Thank you

[Technician46]

Ok so I went back and checked the the actual tooltip on each skill like Joe suggested and I found that the amount healed did increase. It seems that the % are not reflecting on the character stat panel but do reflected on each skill tooltip. I further decided to check the % that each buff actually applied to the skill and this is what I found (test was done with only Major Ballad and how each different buff affected it):

Major Ballad w/o any buffs (this number represent my outgoing healing rate that sits at 83.4%) = 15,656

MB w/ 3 stack of 6% (total of 18% buff and no other buffs apply) = 16,663
should be 15,656 X 18% = 18,474

MB w/ only "Watcher of Resolve" applied (10%) = 16,216
should be 15,656 X 10% =17,221

MB w/ only "Cry of the Chorus" buff applied = 19,115
should be =18,474
one of the buffs listed on the tooltip of CotC at the very bottom says, "+43.8% Outgoing Healing Effect Modifier so I'm assuming that's why the actually number was higher then what I calculated. Someone w/ better math skills can verify this...... lol.

MB w/ 3 stack of 6% + 10% from "Anthem of the 3rd Age - Resonance" (total buffs of 28% = 18% from MB and 10% for Anthem) = 17,223
should be = 19,037


In conclusion either my math is incorrect, I'm missing something or the Buffs just don't add up correctly. Maybe someone w/ really good math skill can look into this.

[Joedangod]

In conclusion either my math is incorrect, I'm missing something or the Buffs just don't add up correctly. Maybe someone w/ really good math skill can look into this.

Your maths is incorrect. % modifiers stack additively, not multiplicatively.

OGH %	Heal Tooltip	Expected Value
+83.4%	15,656	15,656
+93.4%	16,216	16,509
+101.4%	16,663	17,193
+111.4%	17,223	18,046
+126.8%	19,115	19,361

Numbers are a little bit off but I wonder if there's something you're overlooking on each test that's skewing it (mostly due to how inconsistently it is off of expected values).

[Omen_Kaizer]

Numbers are a little bit off but I wonder if there's something you're overlooking on each test that's skewing it (mostly due to how inconsistently it is off of expected values).

I dont know Minstrel at all, but could there be +OGH% modifiers for the specific skills involved too?

[Joedangod]

I dont know Minstrel at all, but could there be +OGH% modifiers for the specific skills involved too?

Unlikely, it'd be a really weird design choice to single out a skills OGH mod rather than just adjust the base value of said skill.