Future Warden in danger. Class traceries need to be changed.

[Simba-]

Bit irrelevant, even with those base damage buffs they aren't matching the nerfed Warden base damage. I really don't care if "X got buffed" or "Y got nerfed", only thing that matters is the end result. Wardens still have some of the highest base damage amongst DPS specs.

thank you for your feedback, warden got overnerfed I think everyone can agree with that

[Nubja]

Maybe take a walk

Yeah it's too much.

[Simba-]

Maybe take a walk

Yeah it's too much.

taking two walks with myself

[Joedangod]

thank you for your feedback, warden got overnerfed I think everyone can agree with that

Is Warden in the bottom half of DPS specs before getting LI's? Nope.

Is Warden in the bottom half of DPS specs after getting LI's? Nope.

You're better than this.

[Simba-]

Is Warden in the bottom half of DPS specs before getting LI's? Nope.

Is Warden in the bottom half of DPS specs after getting LI's? Nope.

You're better than this.

warden got dots and quicksweep nerfed in 2 patches


red




yellow



both are doing abnormal 6.7s mastery cd rotation with 654k crit rating & hope token, officially worse dps than live. Need I say more?

I know you don't even play warden at this level cap so you don't know much


Oh and champ does even more.

[Fresuvi]

Red Warden parse as of the update. I have a rotation that uses both quick sweeps so maybe why mine isn't nerfed quite as badly as I'm not so reliant on medium qs damage.



Looks like they nerfed the higher ends of Warden DPS to reduce some of the rng. However, HUNTER IS STILL DOING 400K DPS when is this going to stop? Why nerf the 2nd highest dps class(warden) by 100k DPS and still give Hunter almost double their dps on live servers.

Some guy on hunter on BR this morning came up and did 1 parse to a dummy and it was 386k. He wasn't even fully geared or heavily crit stacking.

[Brimhaven]

Not everything is about DPS, I wish they would address the base issues of the class rather than try to brute force things by nerfing or buffing our damage.

I am happy with them nerfing our damage so long as they change/add traceries that are actually relevant to the class and not just a copy and paste from the old legacies.

They really only have two options, modify the traceries or change the class to make the traceries that we have actually relevant. Buffing Wages of Fear would be a change I would like to see, or adding a Bleed pulses tracery?

On a side note I am happy with the new Quicksweep change, very much appreciated on that front!

[gaara908776]

Not everything is about DPS, I wish they would address the base issues of the class rather than try to brute force things by nerfing or buffing our damage.

I am happy with them nerfing our damage so long as they change/add traceries that are actually relevant to the class and not just a copy and paste from the old legacies.

They really only have two options, modify the traceries or change the class to make the traceries that we have actually relevant. Buffing Wages of Fear would be a change I would like to see, or adding a Bleed pulses tracery?

On a side note I am happy with the new Quicksweep change, very much appreciated on that front!

Umm well true. There are a lot of useless traceries but that doesn’t change the fact that the past 6 raids have been designed around DPS threshold requirements. So, while not everything is about dps, it’s pretty integral to doing any sort of group content. If they went back to the DN-Orthanc days, and started making instances with more complex mechanics and removed the DPS race/1 shots, DPS balance would matter a whole lot less.

Right now, I don’t see them doing that but who knows.

[Nubja]

and started making instances with more complex mechanics and removed the DPS race/1 shots, DPS balance would matter a whole lot less.

Right now, I don’t see them doing that but who knows.

I take it you've not done FoKD then?

Also, DN and ToO pretty much every boss had a dps requirement lol

[gaara908776]

I take it you've not done FoKD then?

Also, DN and ToO pretty much every boss had a dps requirement lol

Orthanc only 2 bosses had a DPS requirement for their Challenge modes. Shadow wing was hardly a dps check even with a 5 minute timer for challenge, acid sure could be zerged with 3 burgs. Those bosses could all be done without Zerg methods or even without optimal group comps. Even Saruman wasn’t that much of a dps race which is why all groups brought 3 healers.
Fire/frost t2c was poorly designed and only boss in there with a hard DPS race of 60 seconds to kill the first giant.

DN Blind one maybe was a DPS check? Wasn’t for my kin, we brought like a dozen different DPS comps for that raid.

I’ve done FoKD tier 4 on a few characters about 5-6 times each and honestly that raid is definitely an AoE dps check. Up until phase 5, the timing of phase completion is extremely important to determine when you’ll get a ground smash. Tier 5 you’re adding Rogmul to the mix and I can only imagine it gets worse. Yes, it has a lot of mechanics and other than Shelob is the only boss at 130 cap with any real mechanical difficulty IMO. That doesn’t change the fact that there is a hard line you must meet to match the underlying DPS requirements.

FYI I’m referring to all of the raids that existed through Level 60-75. There are always a few bosses with exceptions but out of the 21 or so bosses they released in that timeline, maybe a handful required strict DPS requirements to actually complete. The first NA kin to clear Orthanc did it with a suboptimal group comp, a red captain who didn’t use oathies reset bonus, and 2 champs who didn’t weapon swap.

Compare that to level 130 cap, where 5-6/7 bosses are DPS races.

[Brimhaven]

Umm well true. There are a lot of useless traceries but that doesn’t change the fact that the past 6 raids have been designed around DPS threshold requirements. So, while not everything is about dps, it’s pretty integral to doing any sort of group content. If they went back to the DN-Orthanc days, and started making instances with more complex mechanics and removed the DPS race/1 shots, DPS balance would matter a whole lot less.

Right now, I don’t see them doing that but who knows.

Yea I agree with you there, they could definitely improve on their raid design in that aspect.

I also wish SSG did a better job at absorbing the player feedback from the players who actually dedicated themselves to the specific class. When you have players that understand their class better than the developer working on it, it isn't ideal and it's even worse when those players aren't heard.

They really need to hire more developers to help with general game balance, I could only imagine the spaghetti code that they have/had to get through.. I still don't see that as an excuse to be incompetent and rushing to push updates that clearly still need work.

[gaara908776]

Yea I agree with you there, they could definitely improve on their raid design in that aspect.

I also wish SSG did a better job at absorbing the player feedback from the players who actually dedicated themselves to the specific class. When you have players that understand their class better than the developer working on it, it isn't ideal and it's even worse when those players aren't heard.

They really need to hire more developers to help with general game balance, I could only imagine the spaghetti code that they have/had to get through.. I still don't see that as an excuse to be incompetent and rushing to push updates that clearly still needs work.

Yeah fully agree here. It isn’t an excuse I was just trying to point out the reality of the situation. It’s been a long time since any class didn’t have a myriad of useless skills or broken mechanics. They always do this and release a new patch half-baked. U30 was pretty good for class balance IMO but it took them forever to get there. Now they’re going to release 30.3 and it’ll restart the process all over again.

[Simba-]

Would've been more fun and interactive if they made quicksweep not remove med/low bleed and refreshing it over and over again instead. Looks like there will only be one set rotation which is to use them at the end or always using battlememory on medium bleed. The damage is too low for it to be priority now except for aoe.

[Fresuvi]

Would've been more fun and interactive if they made quicksweep not remove med/low bleed and refreshing it over and over again instead. Looks like there will only be one set rotation which is to use them at the end or always using battlememory on medium bleed. The damage is too low for it to be priority now except for aoe.

IMO once we lose the -5s mastery cd set, using bmem every rotation to refresh mighty blow if it consumes or hold it until the next rotation to add an additional DoT will be the meta move. Low QS will definitely not be worth using outside of AoE cleave. I think with the loss of mastery set we’ll be able to fit 2-3 less gambits per rotation. Might be able to still fit everything in yellow with a double STM rotation.

I practiced a bit more today and got up to 332k DPS in Red and 339k DPS in yellow. It was with the normal build I think I’ll use after the update. Just under 1m crit, 875k mastery, 610k morale, and a solid 9 slots of tact mit for FoKD and everything leveled to 440 on the LI. Don’t have the screenshots from my phone, unfortunately but I might post them later. Will be fun raiding for the next month and seeing what kind of ridiculous numbers Hunters/Wardens hit in raids.

[Sindhol]

Would've been more fun and interactive if they made quicksweep not remove med/low bleed and refreshing it over and over again instead. Looks like there will only be one set rotation which is to use them at the end or always using battlememory on medium bleed. The damage is too low for it to be priority now except for aoe.

I agree that this Quick Sweep change is just boring.

I think it'd be more fun if it was something like: "If you don't get the Quick Sweep bleed, your mastery cooldowns are reduced by 10 seconds". That way you get a good thing or another good thing, and your rotation can continue along two paths.

[Aragield]

I'm wondering why hunter is still doing +400k dps with 4 buttons compared to wardens ~300k, it's quite a sad position we are in balance wise when a RANGED burst is overperforming vs a melee DoT class in every scenario. Dont you think? @ssg

I guess DoTs will be staying bad in every way compared to burst dps. I wont be playing warden anytime soon since it's just a support. Cheers,

That's of course not a good point to be in.

DoT damage profile would need to be somewhat higher when sustained than burst damage profile due to lack of control and slower wind-up. Ranged is always better than melee, up-front damage is better than gradual and more of course better than less. Hunters can't be winning on all fronts.

That said, it looks like it's the hunter who's sticking out and not Warden as such.

I would have Warden do in-line with other classes with current traceries. It would be of interest to fine-tune the performance with class traceries after that, maybe including more useful ones.