New Legendary System Implementation/Rollout - Horrid

[wrath247]

So true though. It's so difficult to figure out how to click a button to convert; head to rivendell, trade in for a new LI, get new traceries, plug and pick, then upgrade with enhancement runes.

Like, omfg, this was so so so so difficult. Like, omg! SO difficult to figure out in like a few seconds of reading their post on twitter or on their website. It's so so so so so difficult.

It's like they didn't post this link on twitter and their website: https://t.co/ni6vPN5vfj?amp=1 or https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articl...tems-explained

Yeah they could have an in-game pop up or smth, but sweet jesus ppl chill tf down. I would have thought ppl actually knew how to read more when they got older.

[Nehniriel]

It's like they didn't post this link on twitter and their website: https://t.co/ni6vPN5vfj?amp=1 or https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articl...tems-explained

Yeah they could have an in-game pop up or smth, but sweet jesus ppl chill tf down. I would have thought ppl actually knew how to read more when they got older.

Seriously...
It's not they could have, it's more like they must have...
People going on twitter (not me), forum or website are very few in proportion on all games, you just can't use it as an unique vector of communication for a change so important.
It must be made ingame (a quest or/and a mail for example).

You, you know of it because you are in the forum, perhaps even in BR or that imaginery thing of Palantir, but the vast majority are not. And that's this majority who must taken in consideration for this, not us.

[DKenny]

Seriously...
It's not they could have, it's more like they must have...
People going on twitter (not me), forum or website are very few in proportion on all games, you just can't use it as an unique vector of communication for a change so important.
It must be made ingame (a quest or/and a mail for example).

You, you know of it because you are in the forum, perhaps even in BR or that imaginery thing of Palantir, but the vast majority are not. And that's this majority who must taken in consideration for this, not us.

Yeah, that's the thing. Many players just play the game and don't use, may not even be aware of, the forums, FB, Twitter. It really would not have been that much work to create a link to the information on the launcher or something, if not a full blown in game tutorial. After all, the company is forcing this change on players. If the intention was really to address player concerns, they could simply have massively cranked up the availability of empowerment scrolls and left the imbued system in place.

[bjute]

If the intention was really to address player concerns, they could simply have massively cranked up the availability of empowerment scrolls and left the imbued system in place.

They didn't even have to "massively crank up the availability of emp scrolls", they could have just unlocked the legacies to level with you, removing the scroll/crystal requirement until you hit character level cap. And make the imbument start at 50. This would have made most sense.. It would also be future proof, once a new cap is released, unlock the legacies to level with you and make scrolls/crystals a requirement for endgame only.

Instead we got this abomination.

[Makawulf]

Pure disappointment. I thought this new LI system was suppose to encounter heavy grind that the old one required.Frankly, seems like the grind will be even worse. I logged in last night and I was clueless like my grandma trying to figure out PC, I had to ask around why I cant slot my new LI or how can I upgrade traceries etc. Honestly I don't see any change other than the words. Same legacies with additional stats and some extra slots for more mastery and what not but still they will require alot of enchantments for upgrade so my question is how the grind is improved for better? Crystals and scrolls are gone and now we have enchantments and other currencies. Same... different colour. Kind of killed my enthusiasm pre Fate of Gundabad. I have all classes on cap level with capped LIs. From what I've seen if I want to play further with the limited time I have I have to continue with 1 character and retire rest. Highly possible this update is the last stop for me. Retirement is near.

[Trixie_Me]

I am grateful that this underfunded treasure of a game didn't spend unnecessary dev time/money to a one-time event that you will never repeat. I'm grateful that they've done such a good job with the new LIs and that people in-game are so pleased with the results, even if the process is laborious.

Leave it to the forums to complain about a job well done, all things considered.

[oggbnvwnyc]

So true though. It's so difficult to figure out how to click a button to convert; head to rivendell, trade in for a new LI, get new traceries, plug and pick, then upgrade with enhancement runes.

Like, omfg, this was so so so so difficult. Like, omg! SO difficult to figure out in like a few seconds of reading their post on twitter or on their website. It's so so so so so difficult.

It's like they didn't post this link on twitter and their website: https://t.co/ni6vPN5vfj?amp=1 or https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articl...tems-explained

Yeah they could have an in-game pop up or smth, but sweet jesus ppl chill tf down. I would have thought ppl actually knew how to read more when they got older.

I asked you to provide an argument for your empty claim of "the overall system is better", but I guess it's "too difficult to figure out how to formulate an argument", right?

And stop it with your narrative that "the user is too dumb to figure it out": said article doesn't even mention that you need to reforge for the LI to catch up to your character level.

[DKenny]

They didn't even have to "massively crank up the availability of emp scrolls", they could have just unlocked the legacies to level with you, removing the scroll/crystal requirement until you hit character level cap. And make the imbument start at 50. This would have made most sense.. It would also be future proof, once a new cap is released, unlock the legacies to level with you and make scrolls/crystals a requirement for endgame only.

Instead we got this abomination.

I agree. And to be fair, some tiers would be unlocked for "free" when an LI was imbued, depending on the LI imbued, and when they increased the max legacy tier level, some of the additional tiers were also unlocked for free. But I agree, the system would have been better, and better lived up to the original billing of "growing with us" if the link had simply been between character level and tier level, rather than depending on mountains of empowerment scrolls and to a lesser extent crystals and not on character level at all.

[wispsong]

I agree. And to be fair, some tiers would be unlocked for "free" when an LI was imbued, depending on the LI imbued, and when they increased the max legacy tier level, some of the additional tiers were also unlocked for free. But I agree, the system would have been better, and better lived up to the original billing of "growing with us" if the link had simply been between character level and tier level, rather than depending on mountains of empowerment scrolls and to a lesser extent crystals and not on character level at all.

This was something mentioned several times over the years. But as Raninia mentioned one time, if you want the best you should invest in it.

With the right tutorial this conversion would have been a better experience. I went to Rivendell, found the barter/reforger in the room and clicked on her. First there should have been a pop up to guide to Rivendell, second either in this quest or at the barter should have been step to step directions.
Other then that imo this system is easier to understand for newcomers, you deal with less steps and parts, can choose right away what traceries you need/want, don't have to worry about dps, exchanging traceries, deconstruction, finding relics, scrolls of Delving, crystals of remembrance and whatever else the old LI systems needed.
Ancient scripts and enhancement runes are what you need and it has to be seen where and how many you get questing through landscape and/or in instances to see how grindy this system is. Maxing out your traceries will take time and keep players busy but will not be needed except maybe high tier endgame. And resets will come with major updates with higher level traceries. No catch up for years of not playing end game. No serious falling behind. No hundreds of scrolls needed to even be able to play landscape. Having already gotten some enhancement runes from epic quests, everything is tied to level. I can't use them, so they are for later characters. But that also means that I don't have to worry about stockpiling in advance for the latest end game.

Does it require rethinking, sure. We are so used to this monster ILI we have that we don't even remember how complicated the whole system is. Some are so used to stockpiling crystals and scrolls(never even maxed these legacies on even one character) to have the perfect top LI right away, maybe even for the 10 next alts. These advantages will be gone.

And before you complain about the new LIs not being maxed right away with the conversion items, play with them. My 110 LM is more powerful now when before.

[DKenny]

...Other then that imo this system is easier to understand for newcomers, you deal with less steps and parts, can choose right away what traceries you need/want, don't have to worry about dps, exchanging traceries, deconstruction, finding relics, scrolls of Delving, crystals of remembrance and whatever else the old LI systems needed ....

Some of that is not correct. They may have changed names, but many equivalent items have been replicated with different names. Admittedly, initial set up may be easier than under the imbued system. However, once set up, all that was necessary with an imbued LI was to add star-lit crystals and scrolls of empowerment - only two items you ever needed to worry about. Again, admittedly, far too many scrolls were necessary. However, the large number of scrolls under the imbued system was only required to reach max. Many tiers were unlocked for free upon imbuing an LI (depending to an extent on the LI that was imbued) and when max tier was increased, some were unlocked for free. So if you were satisfied with less than the best, over half of the tiers could have been unlocked without requiring empowerment scrolls. The other thing about the imbued system, legacies didn't have a level range which caused them to be disabled when the character levelled too high. You may be able to set up your new LI somewhat more easily than under the imbued system. However, you'll have to do it over again when you level out of the range of the traceries.

[gripply]

First and foremost you can tell there was very little user input asked for or taken on this, it appears to be an internal decision to make legendries as monetizable as possible. There are opportunities to spend MC everywhere you look.

Second, There has been little to NO guidance or what to do once you actually click the appraise button. There are no guiding prompts in game, nothing explaining what to do after. There is a website link that explains things at a very high level but not enough to keep users from wasting their appraised currencies.

Three, in this system you basically reinvented the wheel and made it a square....instead of focusing on what was in place and working.

At bare minimum you owe your players some form of compensation for a horrid rollout that is resulting in high levels of frustration for many players.

I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but after hours of nervously working on it, with an alt, because I was too scared to work on my main... I realized how powerful and what a buff this is. Unlike the old system that dictated what traceries / legacies you got, and then made you expensively change that after imbuing, this way you can just pick what you need. I actually was thinking for Beorning that more traceries would be better. There's a lot of skills and abilities that are not touched by the legacies / traceries and I'd love to see them represented and scaled to every level. But there are still modifiers that are generic that are very awesome, like size increases for AoE, dmg and crit increases for AoE, both damage AoE and Heal AoE are included in Word of Power. You can benefit both your Heal AoE and your Bees. I'm not sure I ever had that ability before. If I did, it was too obscure for me to figure out.

I wasn't frustrated, I was being careful, but I am seeing the benefits right away. I'm going back today to work on my main.

[Harvain]

I am grateful that this underfunded treasure of a game didn't spend unnecessary dev time/money to a one-time event that you will never repeat. I'm grateful that they've done such a good job with the new LIs and that people in-game are so pleased with the results, even if the process is laborious.

Leave it to the forums to complain about a job well done, all things considered.

It was good they were able to finally get a Legendary Item Revamp out.

How it was handled was beyond subpar and it is pathetic that not even basic Tutorial Instructions were not available in-game with Update 30.3 to help ensure as smooth as a transition as possible.

I personally saw 2 dozen people state that they tried to start messing with the New Legendary Item System, looked at everything, they just gonna stop and log out and some even stating they might need to find a new game or at the very least stay away from LOTRO for a time.



First Impressions are everything and SSG failed hard here and you don't get a second chance when it comes to First Impressions especially in Gaming.

[wispsong]

Some of that is not correct. They may have changed names, but many equivalent items have been replicated with different names. Admittedly, initial set up may be easier than under the imbued system. However, once set up, all that was necessary with an imbued LI was to add star-lit crystals and scrolls of empowerment - only two items you ever needed to worry about. Again, admittedly, far too many scrolls were necessary. However, the large number of scrolls under the imbued system was only required to reach max. Many tiers were unlocked for free upon imbuing an LI (depending to an extent on the LI that was imbued) and when max tier was increased, some were unlocked for free. So if you were satisfied with less than the best, over half of the tiers could have been unlocked without requiring empowerment scrolls. The other thing about the imbued system, legacies didn't have a level range which caused them to be disabled when the character levelled too high. You may be able to set up your new LI somewhat more easily than under the imbued system. However, you'll have to do it over again when you level out of the range of the traceries.

I think I said this before, it is this level range that forces a reset like with the Moria LI where the whole weapon was replaced. And that is needed to prevent this new system to run rogue again. The traceries also overlap which is better then the Moria system. This system, once set up is like essences, you overwrite with better traceries if you find them but don't really have to do much before cap. And you can't stockpile for that either which puts everybody at a relatively same starting point every so often. I just have to play with it and see how it works out for levelling from scratch, at cap etc. Where to get new traceries, ancient scripts, enhancement runes and in what quantities. These are all unknowns and only through play will we find it out. I know the ILI bogged me down and I wasn't going to grind crystals again but my LM LI conversion has me made confident that I can tackle Mordor and beyond. And my mostly purple tracerie are just 330/349.

[gripply]

It was good they were able to finally get a Legendary Item Revamp out.

How it was handled was beyond subpar and it is pathetic that not even basic Tutorial Instructions were not available in-game with Update 30.3 to help ensure as smooth as a transition as possible.

I personally saw 2 dozen people state that they tried to start messing with the New Legendary Item System, looked at everything, they just gonna stop and log out and some even stating they might need to find a new game or at the very least stay away from LOTRO for a time.



First Impressions are everything and SSG failed hard here and you don't get a second chance when it comes to First Impressions especially in Gaming.

This is some awfully heavy weather. Since when has any mmo relied entirely on in game instructions? We check if servers are up on websites, we go to a wiki for advice when stuck on quests, we seek lore online, we read Dadi's guides, we check Twitter to see if the game is back after an update, we check reddit to see if anyone's asked a deep question recently, we check the forums for the release notes....

I agree they should put instructions in there. But maybe they're waiting because they want those instructions to be useful and widely read. How about you learn the system and suggest good concise written ingame instructions they could add?

[Makawulf]

This is some awfully heavy weather. Since when has any mmo relied entirely on in game instructions? We check if servers are up on websites, we go to a wiki for advice when stuck on quests, we seek lore online, we read Dadi's guides, we check Twitter to see if the game is back after an update, we check reddit to see if anyone's asked a deep question recently, we check the forums for the release notes....

I agree they should put instructions in there. But maybe they're waiting because they want those instructions to be useful and widely read. How about you learn the system and suggest good concise written ingame instructions they could add?

Since like ever??? You think all the websites you mentioned existed long before when MMOs first came to be? Also you are forgetting the age range this game has and not all of us are using twitter or reddit. As product owner/developer, if you are introducing a new system you are obligated to explain and show how it works. You don't expect people to run around and figure it out from external resources which could be right or wrong. He put it rightly, it is the first impression. Do you think a new player will be rejoiced from what he will see?

[Harvain]

This is some awfully heavy weather. Since when has any mmo relied entirely on in game instructions? We check if servers are up on websites, we go to a wiki for advice when stuck on quests, we seek lore online, we read Dadi's guides, we check Twitter to see if the game is back after an update, we check reddit to see if anyone's asked a deep question recently, we check the forums for the release notes....

I agree they should put instructions in there. But maybe they're waiting because they want those instructions to be useful and widely read. How about you learn the system and suggest good concise written ingame instructions they could add?

I spent the better part of October 13th just answering questions people had and probably answered the same several questions dozens of times.

Personally, for me, the New LI System is not hard. I can easily within maybe 2 to 3 paragraphs of 3 to 4 sentences each explain what a Player needs to do with this transition.

There were already instructions in other forms as an overall guideline out there which SSG had available and knew would likely be obstacles to Players.

Taking the time to provide 3 to 5 in-game pop-ups with some Tutorial Information to ensure a Player had visible info both in terms of Pictures & Written Info to help with the transition would have helped ensure a smoother First Impression especially when arguably one of LOTRO's most Key Systems and among it's Oldest Systems was getting such a radical change.



It's too late now for such and doesn't seem likely in the coming weeks for such.

This is just another area the SSG LOTRO Team needs to improve about themselves so they can improve what they do to LOTRO especially if 2022 is gonna be a year where they want to do more work akin to if not to the extent of what they did with the New Legendary Item System.

[sapienze]

This was something mentioned several times over the years. But as Raninia mentioned one time, if you want the best you should invest in it.

With the right tutorial this conversion would have been a better experience. I went to Rivendell, found the barter/reforger in the room and clicked on her. First there should have been a pop up to guide to Rivendell, second either in this quest or at the barter should have been step to step directions.
Other then that imo this system is easier to understand for newcomers, you deal with less steps and parts, can choose right away what traceries you need/want, don't have to worry about dps, exchanging traceries, deconstruction, finding relics, scrolls of Delving, crystals of remembrance and whatever else the old LI systems needed.
Ancient scripts and enhancement runes are what you need and it has to be seen where and how many you get questing through landscape and/or in instances to see how grindy this system is. Maxing out your traceries will take time and keep players busy but will not be needed except maybe high tier endgame. And resets will come with major updates with higher level traceries. No catch up for years of not playing end game. No serious falling behind. No hundreds of scrolls needed to even be able to play landscape. Having already gotten some enhancement runes from epic quests, everything is tied to level. I can't use them, so they are for later characters. But that also means that I don't have to worry about stockpiling in advance for the latest end game.

Does it require rethinking, sure. We are so used to this monster ILI we have that we don't even remember how complicated the whole system is. Some are so used to stockpiling crystals and scrolls(never even maxed these legacies on even one character) to have the perfect top LI right away, maybe even for the 10 next alts. These advantages will be gone.

And before you complain about the new LIs not being maxed right away with the conversion items, play with them. My 110 LM is more powerful now when before.

I suspect nearly the entirety of your post will in the future get turned on its head. Even the first line.

This new weapon system is overflowing with future potential monetization. I'm not one to let the cat out of the bag, but whats the difference when I can see the cat jump out over a mile away?

[wispsong]

I suspect nearly the entirety of your post will in the future get turned on its head. Even the first line.

This new weapon system is overflowing with future potential monetization. I'm not one to let the cat out of the bag, but whats the difference when I can see the cat jump out over a mile away?

The old system had MC button and monetization spelled all over it as well. Doesn't mean I ever used it. If what the game gives you is not enough to play the game then just stop and play new characters. I already got several enhancement runes and traceries from quest rewards.

[Sorhabil]

I agree whole heatedly. This game is becoming a major attempt at a cash grab. My wife and I have been VIP for 10 plus years and that means very little now. We don't participate in raids so getting high-end kit is a grind, we now have to pay for every upgrade and it looks like we now have to pay to have a decent weapon too. I'm nearly at the end of my charity to these new owners.

So if you don't raid you don't get a decent weapon?

[jackrabbit4512]

Is it possible to sell your account? Does anyone want to buy one? I just recently paid my VIP bill. I've been playing this game since day one and have invested tens of thousands of hours and thousands of dollars leveling my toons and weapons. I had plans I invested money in to build my weapons... all gone. This is criminal. What were these people thinking? Obviously this game is being developed for the very few at the expense of many. I have NO desire to be forced to learn and invest in a new system while knowing all my effort and funds invested in the old system were stolen from me and burned to the ground... I'm done... looking for a new game... see ya!

[DKenny]

So if you don't raid you don't get a decent weapon?

"Decent" is highly subjective. It won't be a max weapon, unless you spend MC.

[Harvain]

So if you don't raid you don't get a decent weapon?

You can get Legendary Items akin to what Content you are doing.

If you want be doing Entry Level and possible Tier 2 Raiding, you'll build up to such.

[DKenny]

I think I said this before, it is this level range that forces a reset like with the Moria LI where the whole weapon was replaced. And that is needed to prevent this new system to run rogue again. The traceries also overlap which is better then the Moria system. This system, once set up is like essences, you overwrite with better traceries if you find them but don't really have to do much before cap. And you can't stockpile for that either which puts everybody at a relatively same starting point every so often. I just have to play with it and see how it works out for levelling from scratch, at cap etc. Where to get new traceries, ancient scripts, enhancement runes and in what quantities. These are all unknowns and only through play will we find it out. I know the ILI bogged me down and I wasn't going to grind crystals again but my LM LI conversion has me made confident that I can tackle Mordor and beyond. And my mostly purple tracerie are just 330/349.

Well, the difference is the original (Moria) LI system didn't disable your old LI when your character levelled up, it just couldn't be upgraded any further. That's unlike the new LI system where traceries will become disabled when your character levels above the tracery level range. Not so sure about "overlapping". There was an official statement that level 121-130 level range traceries will continue to function up to level 140, but that was an exception. So at lower levels you'll have to get replacements as soon as you out level the level range, or your LI will be crippled. That's not how the original LI or imbued LI systems worked. Not sure why you believe that having to regrind to replace / rebuild traceries will be an improvement over the old system.

I've read that when you enhance your traceries you're actually upgrading the slot on the LI, not the tracery itself. So for example, if you enhance the tracery in slot 1, but not in slot two, then remove and swap the traceries, the previously slot 2 tracery that is now in slot 1 will become the enhanced one, while the formerly slot 1 tracery now in slot 2 will not be enhanced. So if enhancement is tied to the LI slot, not the tracery in it, then won't enhancement simply build up over time? And then there won't really be a "reset" in the sense that you mean, it's simply traceries themselves that will need to be replaced. Whatever enhancement you did, or failed to do, will be carried forward.

[gripply]

Since like ever??? You think all the websites you mentioned existed long before when MMOs first came to be? Also you are forgetting the age range this game has and not all of us are using twitter or reddit. As product owner/developer, if you are introducing a new system you are obligated to explain and show how it works. You don't expect people to run around and figure it out from external resources which could be right or wrong. He put it rightly, it is the first impression. Do you think a new player will be rejoiced from what he will see?

If you're having this little fun and are this miserable, you should stop trying to play this game. It's obviously not bringing you joy. It's a game. You've suggested an improvement. Good for you.

[gripply]

Why does the existence of a cash option = a cash grab in the minds of some players? Is it the youngest players who think this? The ones who need permission to spend anything? FYI I haven't spent a penny on Mithril to create my new LI's, and they're better than my old ones. You're missing something great.

Edit: They're not even maxed, they're still better than my old ones.

Edit 2: You're missing out... you're missing ouuut! :P