PvMP Update and Changes

[Fulgurix]

This is all useless if you don't upgrade your servers. It will be even more unplayable than already is.

[Fants_SSG]

Welcome and thank you for the post! Glad to have you working on PvMP. My question for you is, as part of your work cleaning up the current PvMP system, can we also please consider bringing PvMP to the legendary servers (Treebeard, Shadowfax, Anor)? Balance certainly doesn't need to be perfect, but as we revamp current PvMP and actually have a resource focused on it, a lot of us would GREATLY appreciate if we can at least have the opportunity to partake in PvMP on the legendary servers. Thank you!

The issue with legendary servers is that none of these changes will actually occur, as all the new gear and loot is cap level content. If we did decide to support PvMP on legendary servers, it would be a sub-optimal experience, as it would be double the effort to make any meaningful changes.

[venyos]

What about for fix stuck spots on borders of moors parts, example Hoardale->Steps of Gram (on Y-road to Lug), Hithlad->Coldfields (near Good TR map) stuck chance is 10-15% now.

[Fulgurix]

-Increased most Monster Player melee skills to have a 5.2m range, to be on equal footing with Free People.

Careful with this, non every freep class has 5.2m range. Captain's range is still 3.5m on most melee skills, and they're already easily kited!

[venyos]

Careful with this, non every freep class has 5.2m range. Captain's range is still 3.5m on most melee skills, and they're already easily kited!

No one Freep melee class have 5.2m range. Only Area Effect skills have 5.2m

[ConsistentRager]

No one Freep melee class have 5.2m range. Only Area Effect skills have 5.2m

[galrodan]

Some freep skills are indeed 3.5m range. Like some burg melee skills are 3.5m. I don't know about the rest. I just know that champions and guardians do have 5.3m range on melee skills and 8.2 on aeo. Reavers now have 3.5 on melee and 5.3m on aoe.




Mulatic
R14 Reaver
Arkenstone

[Starkorm]

No one Freep melee class have 5.2m range. Only Area Effect skills have 5.2m

Stop saying this.

[Strider5548]

The issue with legendary servers is that none of these changes will actually occur, as all the new gear and loot is cap level content. If we did decide to support PvMP on legendary servers, it would be a sub-optimal experience, as it would be double the effort to make any meaningful changes.

Thanks for the quick response!

Yup, I totally get that, and to be honest I think it's OK. The current PvE content on the legendary servers is completely unbalanced, and proper itemization is non-existent, so having the moors be accessible won't come with great expectations of a fully optimal experience.

I think by simply unlocking the Ettenmoors on the legendary servers you'd get two things that are both positive:

1) Those of us who are completionists and want to be able to do all the PvE quests in the moors will be able to.

2) Those of us who want to experiment with PvMP will simply enjoy having the option even if balance isn't there. People on Treebeard currently spar each other just to get a feel for PvP, I promise it's totally broken in terms of balance but we do it anyway because it's enjoyable even though not optimal.

[venyos]

Sorry, my bad. [no have champ, guard]
Then need increase for other melee classes

[Nanganark]

Some freep skills are indeed 3.5m range. Like some burg melee skills are 3.5m. I don't know about the rest. I just know that champions and guardians do have 5.3m range on melee skills and 8.2 on aeo. Reavers now have 3.5 on melee and 5.3m on aoe.




Mulatic
R14 Reaver
Arkenstone

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It gives Classes like Burglars (Only 3.5m), Brawlers (Only 3.5m) and Captains (Only 3.5m)
This must be considered a little more carefully if you want to bring such a change...
In general, I think all melee classes should have the same range and not different... for real

[ConsistentRager]

The issue with legendary servers is that none of these changes will actually occur, as all the new gear and loot is cap level content. If we did decide to support PvMP on legendary servers, it would be a sub-optimal experience, as it would be double the effort to make any meaningful changes.

People, including myself have immediately started asking about things that you did not include in your original post. If you have time, I think if you said what the scope of this upcoming beta will be on it would save a lot of speculation posts, saving our time and yours.

Just an idea =p

[Arantha]

Thanks so much for your work and communication

[Nanganark]

People, including myself have immediately started asking about things that you did not include in your original post. If you have time, I think if you said what the scope of this upcoming beta will be on it would save a lot of speculation posts, saving our time and yours.

Just an idea =p

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I agree with you..., also on the whole these suggestions should now be considered by the devs and changed and taken into account before the beta.

[ithinkiamserious]

This update seems promising!

Freep PVP gear must exist as the best option in PVP to allow PVP-focused individuals to play freep.

100% agree. Some players want to login only to pvp and are put off by annoying grinds of pve content in order to be pvp ready. It's already enough of a grind for new players to get to level cap, fix legendaries, grind trait tree points, virtues, etc. If players want to avoid this grind then the simplest solution is to play on creepside. So making viable freep pvp less cumbersome would be very welcome. Please make the pvp gear the best gear option for pvp.

It would be also useful if the rest of the barters at gv could be updated and offer additional options to curtail the necessity to leave the moors. Legendary upgrades would be one very welcome option, but also consumable buffs, tracks (perhaps tied to the same races that can be tracked by monster players), and/or other such things that are available for barter on creepside.

Additionally, back in the days of SoA, pvp use to appeal to players who would not normally be spend time pvping because the delving stones could only be obtained from the moors (they weren't bound, so they could be traded or sold on the ah, but they could only be originally obtained in the moors) and were used to barter for gear from gv which was as good as the best pve raid gear. I'm not suggesting this necessarily be the case, but offering some incentives, such as weeklies similar to those available at end game (those that offer virtue xp, shards, embers, etc.) or some other cookie(s) to pve players might encourage them to try out or routinely check-in the moors.

[Askelin]

Good news! I'm eager to see how this turns out.
The Audacity rework is a neat idea to make it so that PvP gear is indeed for PvP and PvE is for PvE. It also means for people who only want to do PvP won't have to do big grind to participate.

Regarding the camp positions, it is essential that the camps also operate in the old way too, the invisible walls around the camps make it so that you cannot possibly escape if the enemy rushes through. It turns from a defensive position where you can take potshots from the ramps and fall back in to a deathtrap with some trash mobs in there.
I look forward to the work done on PvMP. The moors hold a very special place in many of our hearts.

[Fants_SSG]

People, including myself have immediately started asking about things that you did not include in your original post. If you have time, I think if you said what the scope of this upcoming beta will be on it would save a lot of speculation posts, saving our time and yours.

Just an idea =p

The upcoming beta will be on the items detailed in the OP.

[ConsistentRager]

The upcoming beta will be on the items detailed in the OP.

ok thank you!

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

Good news! I'm eager to see how this turns out.
The Audacity rework is a neat idea to make it so that PvP gear is indeed for PvP and PvE is for PvE. It also means for people who only want to do PvP won't have to do big grind to participate.

Regarding the camp positions, it is essential that the camps also operate in the old way too, the invisible walls around the camps make it so that you cannot possibly escape if the enemy rushes through. It turns from a defensive position where you can take potshots from the ramps and fall back in to a deathtrap with some trash mobs in there.
I look forward to the work done on PvMP. The moors hold a very special place in many of our hearts.

+1 on this... modern elf/orc camp are useless deathtraps. the NPCs do absolutely nothing, the location is meaningless, and you can't shoot from the parapets or do anything but get trapped and die.


old elf/orc camp were great. modern implementation is awful, always has been.

[Fants_SSG]

What about for fix stuck spots on borders of moors parts, example Hoardale->Steps of Gram (on Y-road to Lug), Hithlad->Coldfields (near Good TR map) stuck chance is 10-15% now.

If you post in this thread with a /loc I will try to get them fixed before release.

[Snowlock]

If you post in this thread with a /loc I will try to get them fixed before release.

I think this would be difficult to do as we get stuck on server lines. Do you just need a single example of a loc of a server line? That's doable.

[venyos]

If you post in this thread with a /loc I will try to get them fixed before release.

There are few locations:


1.[10/19 00:13:29 AM] You are on [EN] Evernight server 44 at r1 lx1311 ly1063 ox159.58 oy153.77 oz376.60 h230.6. Game timestamp 453246024.955. (important)

2.[10/19 00:14:16 AM] You are on [EN] Evernight server 23 at r1 lx1307 ly1064 ox78.46 oy0.04 oz372.14 h305.2. Game timestamp 453246072.353.

3.[10/19 00:16:08 AM] You are on [EN] Evernight server 23 at r1 lx1280 ly1081 ox0.09 oy23.56 oz381.69 h151.9. Game timestamp 453246183.871. (important)

4.[10/19 00:17:17 AM] You are on [EN] Evernight server 27 at r1 lx1274 ly1063 ox45.35 oy159.58 oz355.36 h223.6. Game timestamp 453246253.550.


This is spots when one part of moors change to other part. We stuck at this and only game client restart will help us.

[TearMaker]

We're aware that most players prefer the older locations, and it's on the list for reversion.

Good luck with all your endeavours. You are a truly brave person to tackle such an unenviable bunch of tasks.

And thanks, if nothing else - it will be great to see the old camps back. I do hope you are bringing the old camps and not just moving the new ones because speaking for myself - that isn't what we want. Old camps in the old positions always gave great fights and having a place to jump out over the sides either led to a cool escape (sometimes) or was used to lure those following into a trap... good times...

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

If you post in this thread with a /loc I will try to get them fixed before release.

The region is divided up into "server blocks" of identical size that handle all data within the block. when passing from one block to another, character data is handed off from the old block to the new block. The borders of these blocks are static and unchanged since Moors release, and are at this point well known by the majority of the historic playerbase.


somewhat frequently, the following scenarios will happen:

1) the transfer from block-to-block fails (known as "getting stuck on the server line"), happens more frequently under laggy conditions or when doing "weird" stuff on the line like going back and forth repeatedly, but can happen even under no-stress conditions. This requires you to restart the game. can happen to many people at once (know as "losing half your raid on the server line"). Sometimes you can "see" the failure to get data from a neighboring server block when your comrades and creeps and NPCs appear to also get "stuck" on a nearby server line that you are approaching (they are not actually stuck, just the way you see them) .... when you see this you know you cant go any further because you will get stuck if you hit that line and won't be able to go back without restarting the game. Sometimes there is no indication, you just hit the line and are stuck while everyone else runs in place.

2) server line lag: when a large fight is happening along or across a server line, huge skill delay and movement lag can occur for everyone involved. this is especially bad at the nexus of 4 server blocks (where the 4 corners meet). This is especially noticeable when fights involve 25+ people, prompting leaders to "move away from the server line" or "move towards/across the server line" to improve or hurt combat performance depending on the situation (if your opponent's raid is more melee-sustained heavy, crossing the line is to your advantage).

3) ghost pets: occasionally a pet will spawn or move across a server line and fail to transfer into a new block, locking it in place at the edge of the old block forever as a targetable and attackable mob, but never loses morale or updates its statuses. if the server situation is laggy enough, several of these pets can stack up from multiple random occurrences of this.

4) perma blight/perma banner/perma tar/perma webs/etc : if you cross a server line while a ground-effect status is active, and the border of the ground puddle lines up with the edge of server line and a couple extra things happen (which I will not disclose here due to the possibility of exploiting this), you can permanently get the status on yourself, be they negative (blight -75% incoming healing) or positive (+20% incoming healing from cappy banner). these effects that would normally be dispelled by exiting the ground AOE are not dispelled because the "leaving ground effect" event is not triggered, so the effect says on your forever. sometimes this can happen to several people in a raid at the same time, forcing them to either relog or die to dispel the negative effects (or brand if its a slow). This trick is sometimes used by advanced players to permanently bug negative effects on large numbers of opposing players.



good luck fixing it before release

[Kinmur]

This is great news!

4) perma blight/perma banner/perma tar/perma webs/etc : if you cross a server line while a ground-effect status is active, and the border of the ground puddle lines up with the edge of server line and a couple extra things happen (which I will not disclose here due to the possibility of exploiting this), you can permanently get the status on yourself, be they negative (blight -75% incoming healing) or positive (+20% incoming healing from cappy banner). these effects that would normally be dispelled by exiting the ground-targeted AOE are not dispelled because the "leaving ground effect" event is not triggered, so the effect says on your forever. sometimes this can happen to several people in a raid at the same time, forcing them to either relog or die to dispel the negative effects (or brand if its a slow). This trick is sometimes used by advanced players to permanently bug negative effects on large numbers of opposing players.

^^ real annoying.
always happens to me, lol.