Disparity in mats given for old LI to make new LI

[Hastran]

From everything I read the goal in the new LI system was to turn your old LI into the new LI and them be reasonably equivalent. Now I am reading how people had to appraise and Claim several LIs mats to try to get the 2 new ones up to par of the old ones. It should not take 3 LIs converted to get 1 of the new LIs to equivalency. If I have a maxed Level 60 LI then that should convert to a new LI of equal power. Add the disparity of materials given to the "well you can always use mithril coins comments" it seems more like a move to boost the cash store than an LI improvement.

[Braer]

Best advice was to go in game and discover what sources other than appraise and archive bartering were available.

The Cyan traceries I'm finding will save me a load of currency when it's time to switch over. It's only likely to be Gundabad that will get a hike in difficulty to match our new "powers". Break out the infused gems.

What is happening is peeps have appraised and made their new LIs and are now finding many of the things they bought to make 'em available in the game.

[DKenny]

Unfortunately they shortchanged people who sincerely just converted their max LI because there was room to "game the system". There were those who tested it and found pre-imbued LI got a fair bit, but that same LI if imbued with nothing added got practically nothing. Getting the tiers unlocked and filled with ixp up to tier level 54 was the sweet spot for conversion of imbued LI. A fully max imbued LI gained very little in conversion compared to one with tier level 54. So if you had the mats, and the knowledge, to prep beforehand, you would have filled all of your LI slots in preparation, and then either had unimbued LI or imbued LI with level 54 legacy tiers filled with ixp and gained a lot of mats in the conversion. Simply having a pair of fully max imbued LI would leave you far behind that.

[Joedangod]

From everything I read the goal in the new LI system was to turn your old LI into the new LI and them be reasonably equivalent. Now I am reading how people had to appraise and Claim several LIs mats to try to get the 2 new ones up to par of the old ones. It should not take 3 LIs converted to get 1 of the new LIs to equivalency. If I have a maxed Level 60 LI then that should convert to a new LI of equal power. Add the disparity of materials given to the "well you can always use mithril coins comments" it seems more like a move to boost the cash store than an LI improvement.

I'm not sure who you've been reading here.

If you appraise an old LI and spend everything that 1 appraisal gives you on a new weapon, that new weapon will be more powerful than your old weapon. They don't give you a conversion for equal power, they give you a power increase in the new system.

[Once_of_Bree]

Ignore the people moaning for the sake of moaning, as you'll see when you do it yourself, in reality you can reclaim more than enough stuff to build LIs that are way more powerful than current ones.

I changed my mind on my RK and redid several of their new LIs and now have 5 maxed out new LIs, yet somehow despite all moaning I had more than enough mats to change my swap item from stone to satchel , remove all traceries from several LIs, ditch an LI, get a new LI, decon now unwanted traceries etc.

[DKenny]

Well, as at point in time they made a middling LI in the new system equal or better than a max imbued LI. It seems they also stealth nerfed old LI, as well as disabling ixp and any changes to them. The point is, will a middling LI under the new system be sufficient to handle new content to the same extent that a max imbued LI was sufficient for old content?

[Pewpewmidget]

I started with farming lvl 121-122 school of tham mirdain for hours and racking up 4-5k ancient script and 10 usable traceries.
I appraised both of my maxed FAs on Arkenstone. (I only have one level 130 there to play with a friend)
I go to Rivendell to get what I needed to make my LIs
I was able to get every slot filled with incomparable traceries that wouldn't have been possible if I didn't farm since the maxed FAs only gave 9 cracked fragments of morgul each.
Each new LI has 1 heraldry, 2-3 power, 6 mastery and 2 craft slots, that is 11 slots for mainhand and 12 for class item or ranged weapons = 23 total slots to your 18 fragments.

Given that I was able to fill, I was just not given enough ancient script or runes of enchantment to get every tracery to ilvl 440.

But in all hindsight, the new LIs are better than what you had but the point is that you shouldn't have to need to farm some instance for hours to make up for the shortage of converted materials.

[Joedangod]

But in all hindsight, the new LIs are better than what you had but the point is that you shouldn't have to need to farm some instance for hours to make up for the shortage of converted materials.

You didn't need to do that at all. The mats from the appraisal of the FA's alone would've been enough to make a stronger pair of LI's.

[Braer]

You didn't need to do that at all. The mats from the appraisal of the FA's alone would've been enough to make a stronger pair of LI's.

Not if you are between level 100 and 124ish and had fully maxed ILI already. And if you are used to maximising then ploughing resources into a sub optimal pair makes little sense.

Appraisal stuff is your bank against another capped currency. I'd already figured my cyan geared norm goals would have to take a reduction to purple however it seems with some in game efforts the cyan route remains open without having to pug with numpties. Cheesing gold traceries now seems unlikely to be repeated going into Gundabad, who knows? My test f2p char is certainly more powerful but still has their two ILIs to use and appraise when Scripts are required. My main account chars can gather purple for the flame bank and cyan for the time the cross over makes more sense, resources wise. Smith's tokens were more important staying in your wallet if you didn't have an immediate use for ASoE that you'd only have to store. The suddenly much easier time of it the early adopters are getting the rest of us have had for years, because we maximised the potential. So we are going to try to maximise the potential once again! I'm resigned to cyan enhancements being my zenith, but that'll likely be enough, for me. Still early days, there's a ton of conversion stuff to come into the game that might prove useful.

[DKenny]

Not if you are between level 100 and 124ish and had fully maxed ILI already. And if you are used to maximising then ploughing resources into a sub optimal pair makes little sense.

Appraisal stuff is your bank against another capped currency. I'd already figured my cyan geared norm goals would have to take a reduction to purple however it seems with some in game efforts the cyan route remains open without having to pug with numpties. Cheesing gold traceries now seems unlikely to be repeated going into Gundabad, who knows? My test f2p char is certainly more powerful but still has their two ILIs to use and appraise when Scripts are required. My main account chars can gather purple for the flame bank and cyan for the time the cross over makes more sense, resources wise. Smith's tokens were more important staying in your wallet if you didn't have an immediate use for ASoE that you'd only have to store. The suddenly much easier time of it the early adopters are getting the rest of us have had for years, because we maximised the potential. So we are going to try to maximise the potential once again! I'm resigned to cyan enhancements being my zenith, but that'll likely be enough, for me. Still early days, there's a ton of conversion stuff to come into the game that might prove useful.

Oh oh. Purple and cyan? That's not going to look good upon group inclusion inspection. Welcome to the ranks of the "numpties".

[maartena]

You may not reclaim enough to max out your weapon.

But what you do reclaim makes your weapon already MORE POWERFUL than your old weapon, so you are not losing any dps or stats, and you can continue to build up your weapons.

[Pewpewmidget]

You didn't need to do that at all. The mats from the appraisal of the FA's alone would've been enough to make a stronger pair of LI's.

I mentioned that I have appraised both FAs in the paragraph above. It wasn't enough to max all tracery slots and barely enough to get the rest of the traceries.

[Braer]

Oh oh. Purple and cyan? That's not going to look good upon group inclusion inspection. Welcome to the ranks of the "numpties".

When the numpties took up raiding I stopped grouping. When they bought into sub par mechanics/implementation I stopped paying. Could say the dumbing down since HD has NOT sat well with me!

[JERH]

Not sure why there is an issue. The 121 teals are good through endgame gundabad (140). My experience farming library, school, woe and others is about 1 in 8 is teal and 1 in 5 could be usable. When closer to 140 you can farm for gundabad traceries if you want or just wait 2 years for the next cap to do the work. The difference between teals and gold is small on words of power, heraldries, and craft. So, if someone kicks you for only having teals it wasn’t because of performance.

Note also that the legendary box now dropping in wotp was bound to account so you can use alts to funnel the legendary boxes to a main just like some of the gold essence boxes in the past.

Edit: 121 alternated with 122 school done by a 130 ember equipped (not raid) champion (AoE is best!) does school in 3 minutes. 10 purple traceries, 2 teal (1 usable by champ). Trivial farming for AoE classes, easy for any class. Can probably be replicated at 140 or before. This is easier than South Wall of Minas Tirith and infinitely repeatable (no daily limit). You should be able to farm starting at around 60 for low levels. Resources are not an issue with some time investment. You also get IXP runes for the "reward track".

[Matlev]

Unfortunately they shortchanged people who sincerely just converted their max LI because there was room to "game the system". There were those who tested it and found pre-imbued LI got a fair bit, but that same LI if imbued with nothing added got practically nothing. Getting the tiers unlocked and filled with ixp up to tier level 54 was the sweet spot for conversion of imbued LI. A fully max imbued LI gained very little in conversion compared to one with tier level 54. So if you had the mats, and the knowledge, to prep beforehand, you would have filled all of your LI slots in preparation, and then either had unimbued LI or imbued LI with level 54 legacy tiers filled with ixp and gained a lot of mats in the conversion. Simply having a pair of fully max imbued LI would leave you far behind that.

The problem as I see it is that the conversion is so unlogical. My Imbued 1st Age Reshaped Javelin, which obviosly costed me a lot of effort and resources, symbol for instance, to gain. But when I appraise it gives the equal amount of mats as my 3rd Age non imbued not maxed out Javelin and to me that is not a fair trade to earlier investment. Curiously though, this unfair trade is only happening to my Javelin. My other Imbued 1st Age reshaped LI:s gives a lot more mats when appraised

[Hastran]

I am glad to hear that everyone at End game thinks the new LI system is wonderful and that they get a fair exchange, but what about toons at lower levels? My Level 54 Hunters Level 53 SA LI with 3 star-lit crystals and taken to level 70 looks to be a better weapon than the new LI I can get which will have 1 Heraldic, 2 word of mastery and 1 word of craft. Is everything just Endgame now and lower level content meaningless?

[DKenny]

I am glad to hear that everyone at End game thinks the new LI system is wonderful and that they get a fair exchange, but what about toons at lower levels? My Level 54 Hunters Level 53 SA LI with 3 star-lit crystals and taken to level 70 looks to be a better weapon than the new LI I can get which will have 1 Heraldic, 2 word of mastery and 1 word of craft. Is everything just Endgame now and lower level content meaningless?

Really, they focus mostly on end-game. Sometimes lower level is completely ignored and changes there are mostly guesswork until it's implemented. For example, characters got stuck in the pre-Moria quest chain because they had already obtained an old LI and ixp on old LI was disabled so that the conversion system couldn't be gamed. Thus they cannot complete the quest chain which requires levelling up the first LI to 10 and reforging (neither of which can be done with old LI now). There's also an issue with the first level range being 50-85. That may be OK for a character ~50, but for a character low 80's you have to be careful not to spend too many resources on an LI which will be worthless when you hit the next level range. Obviously the range 50-85 should have been broken up more, but they couldn't be bothered.

[Pewpewmidget]

There are 23 total tracery slots per pair of LIs, right?
Each appraised, maxed out FA, should give 600 ancient scripts PER tracery slot as well as 1 cracked fragment of morgul, 30 rare and 10 incomparable each slot as well
But what we get is not not that. We get only 5400 ancient script, 9 cracked fragments of morgul, 270 rare runes and 84-86 incomparable runes each.

23 x 600 = 13,800 while 5400 x 2 = 10,800 (ancient scripts)
23 x 30 = 690 while 270 x 2 = 540 (rare rune of enchantment)
23 x 10 = 230 while 84-86 x 2 = 168-172 (incomparable rune of enchantment)
23 =/= 18 cracked fragments of morgul

Whoever did the math for the appraisals was either off a bit or were only expecting us to use uncommon or rare traceries.
If the latter, that still doesn't explain the shortage of fragments or enchantment runes.

[Raninia]

As other folks have pointed out, our goal was to make sure that your new LI was at least as powerful as your old one. Since a lot of the power has been shifted on to the base stats of the LI itself - without needing any traceries - and is tied to your player level, we were pretty confident we were gonna be able to make that happen. And worst case, if we weren't, you still had your old LIs to use if need be. Traceries definitely make that power comparison a bit trickier - if you had a fully maxed ILI, and suddenly you have a few empty tracery slots on a new LI, it looks like you lost something. But our goal was maintaining the power, not the specific slotting status you had.

Seeing the data and player feedback, we're generally confident we hit the mark for the overwhelming majority of players. There's a few sub-cap level ranges where a minority of players saw some decreases - mostly if a player had a max ILI when they were like level 103 or somesuch - but those were pretty rare, and as I said, they still had their old LIs to use.

[DKenny]

There are 23 total tracery slots per pair of LIs, right?
Each appraised, maxed out FA, should give 600 ancient scripts PER tracery slot as well as 1 cracked fragment of morgul, 30 rare and 10 incomparable each slot as well
But what we get is not not that. We get only 5400 ancient script, 9 cracked fragments of morgul, 270 rare runes and 84-86 incomparable runes each.

23 x 600 = 13,800 while 5400 x 2 = 10,800 (ancient scripts)
23 x 30 = 690 while 270 x 2 = 540 (rare rune of enchantment)
23 x 10 = 230 while 84-86 x 2 = 168-172 (incomparable rune of enchantment)
23 =/= 18 cracked fragments of morgul

Whoever did the math for the appraisals was either off a bit or were only expecting us to use uncommon or rare traceries.
If the latter, that still doesn't explain the shortage of fragments or enchantment runes.

They don't want you to be able to get anywhere near max. You're supposed to get some cyan and fill in with purple. That way you'll have to grind the rest of the way.

[DKenny]

As other folks have pointed out, our goal was to make sure that your new LI was at least as powerful as your old one. Since a lot of the power has been shifted on to the base stats of the LI itself - without needing any traceries - and is tied to your player level, we were pretty confident we were gonna be able to make that happen. And worst case, if we weren't, you still had your old LIs to use if need be. Traceries definitely make that power comparison a bit trickier - if you had a fully maxed ILI, and suddenly you have a few empty tracery slots on a new LI, it looks like you lost something. But our goal was maintaining the power, not the specific slotting status you had.

Seeing the data and player feedback, we're generally confident we hit the mark for the overwhelming majority of players. There's a few sub-cap level ranges where a minority of players saw some decreases - mostly if a player had a max ILI when they were like level 103 or somesuch - but those were pretty rare, and as I said, they still had their old LIs to use.

Sorry, but if you converted your existing LI to make new ones, and decided that you weren't happy with the result, how would you still have your old LI to fall back on?

[maartena]

Sorry, but if you converted your existing LI to make new ones, and decided that you weren't happy with the result, how would you still have your old LI to fall back on?

You can just continue to use it. It won't level up any more, and you can't empower it more with scrolls and crystals, but you can still use it.

Basically: If you feel the new LI you got is LESS powerful than the old ones, just continue to use the old ones until your new LI matches the dps/feature experience of the old LI.

I have done three toons so far, and the new LI's have been more powerful than the old ones without doing any upgrades. You can even test the difference between old and new on a training dummy, and again.... if not satisfied with the result of the new one, just continue to use the old one.

[OghranNasty]

Seeing the data and player feedback, we're generally confident we hit the mark for the overwhelming majority of players.

From the limited perspective of a hunter doing some modest WoTP and Gundabad BR1 pve testing: you haven't. You overshot it by some margin. One-shotting slightly over level signatures in Gundabad is not what I would expect, given my status before 30.3.

[Joedangod]

From the limited perspective of a hunter doing some modest WoTP and Gundabad BR1 pve testing: you haven't. You overshot it by some margin. One-shotting slightly over level signatures in Gundabad is not what I would expect, given my status before 30.3.

Think they've acknowledged a few times now that Hunters are quite a bit overtuned.

[OghranNasty]

Sorry, but if you converted your existing LI to make new ones, and decided that you weren't happy with the result, how would you still have your old LI to fall back on?

Please stop using the term convert. It implies changing one thing into another and that is just not what happens.

You get an new LI which in most cases is at least as powerful as the old one. Plus you get to keep your old LI fully functional and it wil serve you well in early parts of Gundabad (tested on BR1 up to level +2 mobs). Plenty of opportunity for improvements on your new LI doing landscape. based on live testing (not available on BR yet). So by the time your old LI gets a bit rusty, your new one should be more than capable to take over. Check it out, BR is just a long download away.