Guardian/Tanking Guide u25+ and LvL 130 Gearing

[Olebenny]

Heyo all!

So over the last couple weeks I have been working on a Guardian guide. I kinda wrote one up back at lvl 120 but it was mainly for gearing with some tips here and there. This one touches on all the trait lines and goes really deep into tanking and blue line. I am still by no means an expert on red or yellow line so I did get some help from Zipfile on those sections, shout out to him. Make sure to also check out Zonflux's guide as well >> https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...or-Update-22-2 << He has more knowledge of those 2 trait lines than I do and even though his guide has fallen a little behind the times, it is loaded with good information still.

This guide is updated for our current LI's/Virtues/and 94 trait points so there will be some new information to be had about red and yellow.

I will be keeping this updated as best as I can, posting new builds as I get them and updating information that may end up being changed. If you have any comments, suggestions or want me to break down something more feel free to drop them down below or send me a mail in game on Arkenstone @Olebenny.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

The "Tanking Basics" section is where you will find more generalized tanking discussion. The rest pretty much focuses on the guard. You can look at the "Rotation" section if you want a feel for how guard tackles aggro management in different fights and see how it plays into other tanking classes.

I hope ya'll find this useful in some aspect, cheers!

p,s, Any devs that happen to swing by, there is a little section for you at the end of the document :wink wink:

Updates

-Build #2 added 12/31/2019

-Build #3 added 4/27/2020 the raid build

-Build #4 added, updated break ranks/stoic/challenge changes. Update LI Relics/Title pictures and info + virtues new tiers 1/13/2021

[Archiemundo]

Heyo all!

So over the last couple weeks I have been working on a Guardian guide. I kinda wrote one up back at lvl 120 but it was mainly for gearing with some tips here and there. This one touches on all the trait lines and goes really deep into tanking and blue line. I am still by no means an expert on red or yellow line so I did get some help from Zipfile on those sections, shout out to him. Make sure to also check out Zonflux's guide as well >> https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...or-Update-22-2 << He has more knowledge of those 2 trait lines than I do and even though his guide has fallen a little behind the times, it is loaded with good information still.

This guide is updated for our current LI's/Virtues/and 94 trait points so there will be some new information to be had about red and yellow.

I will be keeping this updated as best as I can, posting new builds as I get them and updating information that may end up being changed. If you have any comments, suggestions or want me to break down something more feel free to drop them down below or send me a mail in game on Arkenstone @Olebenny.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

The "Tanking Basics" section is where you will find more generalized tanking discussion. The rest pretty much focuses on the guard. You can look at the "Rotation" section if you want a feel for how guard tackles aggro management in different fights and see how it plays into other tanking classes.

I hope ya'll find this useful in some aspect, cheers!

p,s, Any devs that happen to swing by, there is a little section for you at the end of the document :wink wink:

Thanks for these. Good class guides that are up to date are so handy to show newer players.

[Enzdid]

As someone seriously leveling a Guardian for the first time, thank you so much for making an updated guide. It's going to be a great help.

[Gildoriel]

Hi, I can't somehow access your picture with the virtues in Red Line ... it says access denied?

[Olebenny]

Hi, I can't somehow access your picture with the virtues in Red Line ... it says access denied?

Thankyou so much for pointing that out. I dont know what happened, I couldn't even view the picture :/

I have swapped it out for a new image and appears to be working now, let me know if you run into any more problems!

[GarethB]

I'll just mention a not so obvious detail about Take to Heart from yellow.

One of the effects of TTH is "Marked by Light". https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Marked_by_Light

Marked by Light adds a 10% chance that melee skills used on a mob marked with TTH will proc a 5% max morale heal.
Unlike Thrill of Battle in red, Marked by Light does not rely on skills gated by a parry (or block) response, all melee skills count, and crits are not required to proc the Marked by Light heal.

Marked by Light should also be copied to other mobs by Radiate and Cataclysmic Shout. I'm quite certain that Radiate does copy MbL, I've seen Sweeping Cut proc heals on multiple mobs at the same time that were too large to be proced by ToB. I don't use Cataclysmic Shout often enough to have noticed it copying TTH to other mobs but based on the description for CS, I expect it should do that.

One detail I haven't tried testing is if TTH will only proc heals for the guard or if other players in a group can proc heals from a mob marked with TTH.

Another point is that TTH can be used as a pull skill, it will aggro it's target and has a range of 40 meters, compared to 30 meters for Fray the Edge and 25 meters for Let Fly.

[zaboch]

I'll just mention a not so obvious detail about Take to Heart from yellow.

One of the effects of TTH is "Marked by Light". https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Marked_by_Light

Marked by Light adds a 10% chance that melee skills used on a mob marked with TTH will proc a 5% max morale heal.

It's 50% chance on any aggresive skill (including Fray the Edge) to proc a 5% max morale heal every 5 seconds.
During the off-cooldown of the passive, you can multiproc it with an AOE skill.

Unlike Thrill of Battle in red, Marked by Light does not rely on skills gated by a parry (or block) response, all melee skills count, and crits are not required to proc the Marked by Light heal.

Thrill of Battle is extremely horrible trait that should've been reworked along with the Red Guardian a year and a half ago.
However, partial hits will not proc Fighter Of Shadow heal (name of the heal in Combat Tab). Only fully-connected hits will. In AOE situations, it'll proc based regardless, as long attack isn't fully BPE'd or resisted.

Marked by Light should also be copied to other mobs by Radiate and Cataclysmic Shout.

Shout doesn't copy Marked by Light.

I'm quite certain that Radiate does copy MbL, I've seen Sweeping Cut proc heals on multiple mobs at the same time that were too large to be proced by ToB. I don't use Cataclysmic Shout often enough to have noticed it copying TTH to other mobs but based on the description for CS, I expect it should do that.

Stated above. Any AOE skill will have a chance to copy the debuffs. The skill itself doesn't have to hit the mob for this to happen.

One detail I haven't tried testing is if TTH will only proc heals for the guard or if other players in a group can proc heals from a mob marked with TTH.

Exclusively Guardian. However, if there's multiple Guardians happening, they will proc extra damage and the non-Yellow Guardian's debuffs (Stagger, War-chant, Engage) will be applied as if they're Yellow traited. Self-heal doesn't work cause it's a trait tree specific, however.

Another point is that TTH can be used as a pull skill, it will aggro it's target and has a range of 40 meters, compared to 30 meters for Fray the Edge and 25 meters for Let Fly.

50 meters is the traited Fray the Edge range.

[Gildoriel]

Thankyou so much for pointing that out. I dont know what happened, I couldn't even view the picture :/

I have swapped it out for a new image and appears to be working now, let me know if you run into any more problems!

Thank you, everything works now.

[Olebenny]

I'll just mention a not so obvious detail about Take to Heart from yellow.

One of the effects of TTH is "Marked by Light". https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Marked_by_Light

Marked by Light adds a 10% chance that melee skills used on a mob marked with TTH will proc a 5% max morale heal.
Unlike Thrill of Battle in red, Marked by Light does not rely on skills gated by a parry (or block) response, all melee skills count, and crits are not required to proc the Marked by Light heal.

Marked by Light should also be copied to other mobs by Radiate and Cataclysmic Shout. I'm quite certain that Radiate does copy MbL, I've seen Sweeping Cut proc heals on multiple mobs at the same time that were too large to be proced by ToB. I don't use Cataclysmic Shout often enough to have noticed it copying TTH to other mobs but based on the description for CS, I expect it should do that.

One detail I haven't tried testing is if TTH will only proc heals for the guard or if other players in a group can proc heals from a mob marked with TTH.

Another point is that TTH can be used as a pull skill, it will aggro it's target and has a range of 40 meters, compared to 30 meters for Fray the Edge and 25 meters for Let Fly.

Oh yes I forgot about the healing from the mark, my apologies. When I get some time I will add it to the guide along with some of Zaboch's remarks.

Good info guys, dont be afraid to drop stuff like this in here, trying to make this a pretty flushed out guide!

Thrill of Battle is extremely horrible trait that should've been reworked along with the Red Guardian a year and a half ago.

I miss healing to full with 1 sweeping cut

[Lifthil]

It would be cool if you opened up the Google Doc for us to comment. Until you do, here are my responses:

Red Line Trait Tree

I don't see a red tree that includes Bring On the Pain. It's usually mutually exclusive with Strong Bursts, but 94 trait points can get you both and still reach Hammer Down -- you just have to give up To the Rescue and a few ranks elsewhere in Red.

Brutal Assault... can be traited to have a 50% chance to reset on use of any parry response skills, I break down whether or not you should trait that above in my trait tree discussion.

No, the first mention of Brutal Assault is in the red LI section. Perhaps you forgot to mention the Tireless Blows trait?

Get a non-imbued sword with charge duration on it for a swappy.

I have one with Charge Duration, Pledge Cooldown, Turn the Tables Cooldown, and Warrior's Heart Duration on it. It used to have AoE targets on it as well, but they changed that legacy. Putting those other cooldown legacies on it frees up space on my tank weapon, and leveling them is cheaper.

I would recommend swapping out Overwhelm damage which may sound crazy to you, but I find myself almost never using that skill, I always use Thrust instead when I hit that part of the parry response rotation, rarely does a mob live long enough for me to get all 3 main bleeds on it and then hit the point of using Overwhelm to upgrade the Thrust bleed.

If you're not gonna use Stamp Cooldown, I'd recommend Brutal Assault Damage over Overwhelm Damage, since you'll use that skill more often. If you're a tryhard, you can even use separate 2h weapons for AoE (AoE Skill Damage, Whirling/Sweeping/Vexing) and single target (BA, TTK, Stamp, Overwhelm or stats), but be advised that you'd have to double the scrolls just to level Bleed Damage and Bleed Crit Damage. But IMO AoE skills are more important to buff if you're sticking to landscape. PvMP lends itself to ST, so that's the main niche. I have a ST weapon, but it's pretty far down on my list of priorities.

I made these LI’s back at lvl 105 when main stat legacies were actually good so the might on the belt made sense back then. Now I would swap that might out for Warriors Heart heal just so I don’t have to worry about swapping to my tank belt when I need to WH on a dime, yes I am lazy

I don't think Stagger Positional Damage is worth that much. How often do you get to hit your target from behind, burglar-style? Since I have a dedicated swap belt for cooldowns (Warrior's Heart, Catch a Breath, Pledge), and since I haven't changed legacies on my LIs since L105, I have Vitality on my DPS belt instead.

I miss healing to full with 1 sweeping cut

That was Prey on the Weak healing, not Thrill of Battle, but yeah, those were the days.

I may be more thoughts, but that's all I have time for today.

[Olebenny]

First point is Im not really open to comments on the guard guide itself because I want all the discussion here on the forums so people can see all the ideas. If there is something I disagree with and thus do not add to the guide I would still like other people to be able to read it, I could leave comments on the guide itself but with how much there is to it already, Im not interested in it being plastered with comments all over the place as well

I also do not do intense weapon swapping. My champ doesn't do the crazy weapon swapping you can do with it and none of my other characters ever will. I know swapping for pledge or turn the tables is not at the level a champ has to do but i find it much simpler to just have these buffs already for skills you hit reactively, adds another button press. Guard isn't a dps class so having different LI's for AOE and Single target to me is way too much effort.

I don't see a red tree that includes Bring On the Pain. It's usually mutually exclusive with Strong Bursts, but 94 trait points can get you both and still reach Hammer Down -- you just have to give up To the Rescue and a few ranks elsewhere in Red.

You can get one point in it at 94 trait points I suppose since I just spend the 93rd and 94th in more parry, didn't really think of that but I don't think that little heal will ever amount to much in most red line situations. I guess when you are pulling a large group of mobs you could get some decent healing from it but when I go for the large pulls I normally do it with brutal charge knockdown and kill most of the mobs before they wake up. It is definitely a possibility but I'm not sure I'd ever want to commit more than one point to it.

No, the first mention of Brutal Assault is in the red LI section. Perhaps you forgot to mention the Tireless Blows trait?

Oops, this was a left over comment from an old iteration of the red line where I was no traiting brutal assault cooldown reset. I will remove this, thankyou

I have one with Charge Duration, Pledge Cooldown, Turn the Tables Cooldown, and Warrior's Heart Duration on it. It used to have AoE targets on it as well, but they changed that legacy. Putting those other cooldown legacies on it frees up space on my tank weapon, and leveling them is cheaper.

Oooo, I should add a section about just straight up using an un-imbued sword for tanking. I know some Guard's do that and it is totally plausible and you can get +duration to Ward Tactics buff and Charge duration all on one LI since un-imbued swords still have the other major tanking legacies. You would lose out on some damage yes, but its worth considering. I'll write up about that when I get some time, otherwise, using it coupled with an imbued sword for LI swapping with all those skills I won't do. I talk about that above.

If you're not gonna use Stamp Cooldown, I'd recommend Brutal Assault Damage over Overwhelm Damage, since you'll use that skill more often.

Good point, I think I will change that

I don't think Stagger Positional Damage is worth that much. How often do you get to hit your target from behind, burglar-style?

There just literally is no other DPS legacy for when you are running 2hander. If you plan to run sword+board then you can pick up stuff like shield damage in its place.

Thankyou for the notes!

[zaboch]

If you're not gonna use Stamp Cooldown, I'd recommend Brutal Assault Damage over Overwhelm Damage, since you'll use that skill more often.

No, you won't really use it that often. Optimally, every 10 seconds just to refresh the bleed.
Overwhelm also has a 10 second CD, does a lot more damage and upgrades to the strongest bleed you have, at worst, I use it on between last and second to last tick of Terrible Wound (every 12-14 seconds).
Comparing tooltips on my build right now:

[Olebenny]

Build #2 is up yall, hope it is helpful!

[Marxlne]

I want to ask other Guards out there who are still maining Guardians what are your thoughts about current end-game blue-line Guardian-meta - do you still enjoy current taunt-based tanking meta or do you think tanking has turned out to be a total joke ?
Sadly personally i've been having hard time enjoying post-Abyss blue-line guardian due to some changes SSG has introduced since Abyss:
Let me explain - during (Pre-)Abyss there was basically two different ways to build your blue-line guardian:
1) Full mits/morale build/zero finess build - doable but you have to juggle a lot mobs with tab/single taunts to pick up loose mobs. I have never been a fan of this kind of tanking.
2) Good finesse/AoE threat build where you basically generate enough threat without using any force taunts. For example i was doing 100k+ dps on my tanking build during Abyss thrash pulls so i basically never even had to use taunts ...

First thing that hit me hard post-Abyss was Physical Mastery gain nerf from Might (from 8 to 2) - so basically ,*bang*, our threat output was nerfed 4x times. And we all know what that turned out to be in Anvil raid era - Guardians running around in their "awesome" builds with will/agility gear.
Other thing that additionally hit my tanking abilities was change from T2C to T1-T5 model - Every Guardian tank knows that your main skill to get aggro of spawned mobs is War-Chant. During T2C there was a constant finesse rating you had to reach to be able to comfortably to get "attention" of mobs wheather it was T2 or T2C run. Since introduction of T1-T5 tiers this is not the case anymore. You need incrementially higher finesse for each tier to get the same effect. War-Chant is especially prone to get resisted sadly. I am fairly sure i am running higher finesse than every other tank in my server and the resists i get on War-Chant on T5 is still ridiculous - on the last week's Harrowing T5 run i had 20% resist on War-Chant on the last boss while having 25% finesse, after whitch i literally was considering uninstalling the game. By my calculations you have to have around 35% finesse on T5 to not have many resists, which is ridiculous amount to achieve for a tank. Overall, that means i have to compensate my finesse for a lot of surviveability (morale/mits). That puts me about 100k less morale than other Guardian tanks (who feel comfortable using taunt-based build) and about 200k morale lower compared to Captain tanks (Captain class is kinda ridiculous atm anyways and needs to revised imo, but i doubt it will happen because SSG never does nerfs).

Happy New Year btw to all Guardians out there!

[MistyMountains]

Thanks for such a detailed guide. really appreciate the time you took on this!
Curious to how you have your skill bar set up. I find with this being my first guardian I am trying to find a set up that is intuitive and makes sense.
Any feedback is great from anyone!

[Lobotomi]

not any updates/advice/tips for stats ? document seems outdated ?

[Olebenny]

not any updates/advice/tips for stats ? document seems outdated ?

Its not horribly outdated, its pretty decent, I dont have major upgrades currently on my guard compared to the most recent stuff up there (only got a couple raid set bonus pieces I have not yet pieced together) jewellery stays about the same (I keep getting dps might jewels, oof)

The most recent build on it should handle t1 of the raid quite fine considering my minor upgrades from raiding handle tanking on T2 of it, but I should be able to farm up some stuff and maybe get a new build out next weekend when I get some days off from work again

The 6man loot wasnt too extravagant for tanks, such as no new tier of the awesome incoming healing jewels, is the thing and tbh some of the non-set bonus armour from the raid is WORSE than 3/6man armour pieces because all the raid pieces do is give a bunch more armour but you lose out on vitality/other stats (like the raid gloves lose the 6k tmit that the 6man gloves have) and when I already have base 800k physical mits the extra armour is not that great, sure it gives some tmit (20% of armour gets turned into tmit) but the benefits are minimal

So yeah, still amassing some raid pieces to put out a new build

[Olebenny]

I have added a T1 raiding build to the document, hope it helps some ya'll out!

[Mercurise]

Great guide learnt loads since my time away... just to confirm, for the current meta, the priority of stats in up to date in the guide, right? 1. Phy/Tact mits 2. Vitality 3.Finesse!?

Asking because I asked a few guards for advice choosing between two heavy- armour rewards which were fairly equal apart from resistance/finesse, and most of the guards said that finesse is not important at all, to go with the items with +resistance

[Olebenny]

Great guide learnt loads since my time away... just to confirm, for the current meta, the priority of stats in up to date in the guide, right? 1. Phy/Tact mits 2. Vitality 3.Finesse!?

Asking because I asked a few guards for advice choosing between two heavy- armour rewards which were fairly equal apart from resistance/finesse, and most of the guards said that finesse is not important at all, to go with the items with +resistance

I think I make it pretty clear in the guide that I have a unique preference for finesse in my builds on guard and I wont critique someone who does not wear finesse. As it stands, content given to us right now heavily favours pure morale stacking and nothing else. Steady, lower hitting sources of damage aren't used much these days making avoidances and crit defence meaningless on top of avoidance ratings on essences and gear being quite ####. Most damage sources are simply hitting too hard and the meta is, as much as it pains me to say, moving to cappy main tanks since they can get more morale and have better cooldowns for managing raw damage spikes (shield of the dunedain -incoming damage and last stand)

Something like what I have built will make tanking 6mans and t1 of the raid a cake walk. Theres still a good amount of tactical damage in the 6mans to make the tmit viable and finesse helps me hold aggro on trash and adds in fights.

One thing to keep in mind is if you are looking at a piece of gear with finesse on it you are most likely looking at a dps piece and it probably has some other dps stat on it like crit rating or mastery that is useless to a tank and most likely less vitality than its tanking counterpart. If I am not mistaken the only tanking pieces of gear with finesse on it are T1 Remmorchant pants, T4/T5 pants from the 3mans and the set bonus armour from T2+ in Remm. So like 3% of all the tanking gear out there at end game. If you do want to get some finesse, most likely need to slot essences for it OR get some from your settings on LIs OR use the dps pocket pieces that I believe I talk about in the guide

To give you an idea real quick on how the meta is set up right now, to my knowledge no guardian has beaten Shelob on T3 (last boss in Remmorchant) since its a 1 tank fight to be able to hit dps thresholds and the cappy just has a better kit for how content is designed these days. Not a fault of the Guard or the Cappy, its the fault of content design and bad scaling on stats such as avoidances.

[Mercurise]

Ok that makes sense. With regards to the finesse, I've just hit cap and starting to pickup better pieces from quest rewards, which I know will be replaced very quickly... but I'm kinless atm, and haven't really ventured into any 3/6 mans or raids yet and trying to make choices that will help me when I do group content, for example:

[Olebenny]

Whoa it's been awhile.

Hey everyone! I have been on quite a break from lotro and while I would not say I am back playing, I'd say I am atleast back messing around :P

I have actually tossed some updates into the guide! Fixed up a couple guard changes that happened while I was gone and yes! I do plan on adding a new build. As of writing this comment everything non-gear related should be up to date which includes
-Traiting
-LI legacies
-Which virtues to slot
-Rotations

I plan to hopefully within the next week slap up a full gear guide, prob a bit late :P But if I am told correctly we should be at this level cap for a bit longer and thus there is plenty of time to get good use out of it. I also plan to update the LI pics with the new titles and relics and slap up a new virtue pic just so yall can see what the main tanking virtues look like when maxed. And I guess I'll add a new pic of trait trees for the 95th point we unlocked (spoiler alert, I put it into parry for my red line and block for my blue line :P)

Finally, I also am tentatively planning a consolidated thread in the near future for guard changes and I hope when I slap that up we can get some good constructive conversations going over there. Though my mentality still remains that the class itself needs little changes and the focus should be more on content and avoidances.

Cheers all!

[Wolfhelm]

Huge thanks from me for this excellent guide, it very comprehensive and well written. It covers almost every aspect of guardian play. Well done!