Blue captain healing anomalies

[Cafat]

As title says.

More then sure that this topic have been brought up a hundred times already.

Checked todays HoR T2 HPS data and this is what I've found in my combat analysis:
(Data is from Loknashra since it's a relative long tank and spank fight.)

Valour, our capstone trait:

(The Captain's healing skills have a 20% chance to build stacks of valour. At 5 stacks, you burst an AoE heal around yourself and your next Valiant Strike is guaranteed to crit.)

Did 0.2% of my overall heal, 44 procs during 8 min fight, avg hit 9.200, 0% crit.

-Valour rarely procs and has a very low base heal so doesn't have any meaningful effect on the overall HPS or the Valliant strike crit chance.

Hands of Healing

(On every Captain Healing skill, 10% chance to +[Scaled] Morale Cooldown: 1s)

Did 0.1% of my overall heal, 13 procs during 8 min fight, avg hit 11.100, 0% crit.

-Trait line specific heal rarely procs and it doesn't benefits from crit chance which taxes blue capts really hard due to the high crit magnitude we have.
(There were 6.228 "attacks", I guess hots included and since it has a cooldown, hots should proc it too.)

Focus

(Restore 2% Max Morale over 10s if sure strike were used with battle readied state)

Did 2.3% of my overall heal, 368 procs during 8 min fight, avg hit 11.300, 20.1% crit, which is ok since my base crit chance is 18.1%.

-While the number of attacks depends on my rotation, the healing amount still seems a bit low, especially that this is again a trait line specific heal.
(Yes it scales with the ppl's morale since % based, but 4% would be more realistic and it would also help a bit with tank healing.)

Standard of Honour

Did 10.5% of my overall heal, 50% uptime during the fight, avg hit 35.000, 5.3% crit.

-Base healing seems ok since its an AOE with 50% uptime, however it's not inheriting the crit rating which taxes blue capts really hard due to the high crit magnitude we have.

(I would be absolutely fine with this skill if it would benefit from the full crit rating.)

Rest of the healing skills

Currently I don't see any issue with them, blue capt has it's own pros and limitations, but all in all a very fun class.

I believe that every healer spec should be able to main heal 6man and be able to fit either ST or GRP healer role in raids, so while healers don't have to push out exactly the same ST HPS, devs should make sure that the existing skills are working, have an effect on the overall HPS and if needed, numbers have to be adjusted.

(Please. don't tell me that it's a support class...yellow capt is more than a capable tank.)

I know that raw HPS is just one metric since -historically- ST burst healing was much more important in previous expansions (something blue capt lacks), but so far it looks like boss mechanics either one shots you or you have time to recover from it, with other words sustained ST / GRP and the avoidance of non trivial dmg is more important.

At least as long as mits and morale pools are adequate, glass cannon builds and higher tiers compared to the group's ilevel would require ST burst, but that's something which is optional, and I'm absolutely fine with it.


Feel free to correct me, there is always something to learn and you may have different experiences or expectations.

[Joedangod]

Might also be worth mentioning the weird interaction between gallant display stacks and Inspire.

Right now Inspire cashes out the Gallant Display stacks to give you a bigger initial heal on Inspire....but I'd really much prefer it didn't do that as the Gallant Display stacks are way more valuable.

[Zaheer]

Might also be worth mentioning the weird interaction between gallant display stacks and Inspire.

Right now Inspire cashes out the Gallant Display stacks to give you a bigger initial heal on Inspire....but I'd really much prefer it didn't do that as the Gallant Display stacks are way more valuable.

Gallant display cashes out on inspire use. This is pretty normal. It does amplify ONLY the initial heal of inspire, which is a bug.
It's best to keep using inspire unless you have a few seconds left on your inspiriting presence cooldown, which you should track internally with something like gibberish. Then use gallant to bridge that gap by using its t3 heals.

there are many problems and scaling issues with the blue captain, which most of them are still very present within the bugs archive.
Blue also lacks a lot of the damage it should be doing, because it simply lacks in that department. It also has many accountable scaling issues and poor single target healing.
I was soon planning on pushing a new topic regarding all 3 cappy lines.

[mizkid]

If valiant strike crits cashed out valour and gallant display stacks could hit two birds with one stone. Inspire doesn’t mess up your gallant display stacks and cashing in valour stacks actually fixes a gap in blue cap healing. A buff to valour would make sense as it is the whole idea behind blue line…

[Cafat]

Gallant display cashes out on inspire use. This is pretty normal. It does amplify ONLY the initial heal of inspire, which is a bug.
It's best to keep using inspire unless you have a few seconds left on your inspiriting presence cooldown, which you should track internally with something like gibberish. Then use gallant to bridge that gap by using its t3 heals.

there are many problems and scaling issues with the blue captain, which most of them are still very present within the bugs archive.
Blue also lacks a lot of the damage it should be doing, because it simply lacks in that department. It also has many accountable scaling issues and poor single target healing.
I was soon planning on pushing a new topic regarding all 3 cappy lines.

DMG

My original plan was to build a blue capt with 2H to create a heal/off-dps/support build, but the DMG was so low that it doesn't make sense to sacrifice the stats by not using a shield.

Now, if I count all the buffs a blue capt (or capt in general) brings to the table, I have to say that a somewhat potent DMG would be too much for blue, that should be the niche of red capt.

I would be ok with a design where blue capt and beo are contending for the raid GRP healer spot where the former brings more buffs+utility while the later debuffs and more DMG.

ST

I'm ok with having somewhat low ST compared to mini/rk without a meaningful burst capability as long as it doesn't invalidate the class for single healing 6man on all tiers.

In raids, blue capt should be a raid healer any ways.

As pointed out in my original post, its absolutely ok that mini excels in ST burst and it makes it the best "progression" healer, every class should have a niche.


My question is, how much ST HPS do the different healers compared to an equally geared blue capt, and how much is actually needed on a reasonable challenge level?
(Tanks and DPS should use their mitigation skills and CDs according to the fight and have to meet the needed mit/morale levels.)

While blue capt is my main atm, I'm still testing it's capabilities to see if it's worth investing time and effort in it.
(I'm ok with having hard times on certain fights as long as it's doable.)

[Cafat]

If valiant strike crits cashed out valour and gallant display stacks could hit two birds with one stone. Inspire doesn’t mess up your gallant display stacks and cashing in valour stacks actually fixes a gap in blue cap healing. A buff to valour would make sense as it is the whole idea behind blue line…

Valour

If valiant would cash out valour, then valiant would become a 100% crit skill after the first crit...I wouldn't go that way nor would I remove the valiant crit bonus.

I don't say that what we need is a random AOE which will either heal or go wasted, but since SSG is limited in resources, I would simply buff up the proc chance so valiant would actually benefit from valour. ST healing would probably benefit from this too since most of the time, tanks aren't on full morale.

Taking the fact that the base heal of valour is pretty weak, messing with the proc chance is not that big of a risk.

Gallant

Personally I like the current mechanic, if you pay attention to stack up 3 GDs, you get a more potent Ins. Overall healing should not depend on GD spamming, rather on layering multiple levels of hots and utilizing our CDs.

Inspiration healing

If only the initial heal is affected by GD stacks than it should be fixed.

Hands of healing, focus healing, banner

If these were fixed too, we probably wouldn't lament on HPS.

Also they are either blue line specific or require a lot of skill points so buffing them wouldn't affect red and yellow HPS, which is important too.

[Joedangod]

Gallant

Personally I like the current mechanic, if you pay attention to stack up 3 GDs, you get a more potent Ins. Overall healing should not depend on GD spamming, rather on layering multiple levels of hots and utilizing our CDs.

Inspiration healing

If only the initial heal is affected by GD stacks than it should be fixed.

Those two points kinda don't match up. If the HoT were affected by GD stacks then you would just be spamming GD off cooldown to empower the HoT. If GD doesn't get cashed out you wouldn't be pushed to spam it off CD, you'd just be encouraged to use it a minimum of once every 12s to maintain stacks. The latter feels like more preferable behaviour.

[Cafat]

Those two points kinda don't match up. If the HoT were affected by GD stacks then you would just be spamming GD off cooldown to empower the HoT. If GD doesn't get cashed out you wouldn't be pushed to spam it off CD, you'd just be encouraged to use it a minimum of once every 12s to maintain stacks. The latter feels like more preferable behaviour.

This is how I've meant it with dummy numbers:

Inspire initial heal 100, hot 100 over 12 sec.

Inspire + GD Tier 3, initial heal 115, hot 115 over 12 sec.

Not a 100% sure, so correct me if I'm wrong but RC casted with defeat event works similar to the above, I think it's a double initial and hot heal (+ power regen), but have to check it when the game is up.

[Joedangod]

This is how I've meant it with dummy numbers:

Not quite understanding what you're trying to say here?

Gallant Display stacks are getting consumed by Inspire each time you cast Inspire, the bump in value to Inspire from Gallant Display stacks is pretty small. The impact Gallant Display stacks have on the heal of Gallant Display is a fair bit larger.

So right now we're dealing with a situation where we can build up Gallant Display stacks, boosting the skill by a moderate amount, but they get eaten for a fairly worthless Inspire boost. I'd really much prefer to keep my Gallant Display stacks and have them only empower Gallant Display, no cashout.

[Cafat]

Not quite understanding what you're trying to say here?

Gallant Display stacks are getting consumed by Inspire each time you cast Inspire, the bump in value to Inspire from Gallant Display stacks is pretty small. The impact Gallant Display stacks have on the heal of Gallant Display is a fair bit larger.

So right now we're dealing with a situation where we can build up Gallant Display stacks, boosting the skill by a moderate amount, but they get eaten for a fairly worthless Inspire boost. I'd really much prefer to keep my Gallant Display stacks and have them only empower Gallant Display, no cashout.

What I'm saying is that, GD is a +5/+10/+15% bonus to Inspire healing done, based on its tier.

It should affect the hot part not just the initial heal, this is one of the anomalies.

I'm fine with the current build up - consume approach, as a mechanic.

I've never tested if casting inspire is actually a HPS lost and I should be spamming GD or not, but will check it, thanks for the heads up.

[Joedangod]

What I'm saying is that, GD is a +5/+10/+15% bonus to Inspire healing done, based on its tier.

...right, but at T3 stacks it's a +100% heal bonus to Gallant Display. I don't care for the Inspire healing boost, Inspire is pretty irrelevant and the % boost amount even more irrelevant. I'd much rather have the 100% Gallant Display bonus.

[Cafat]

...right, but at T3 stacks it's a +100% heal bonus to Gallant Display. I don't care for the Inspire healing boost, Inspire is pretty irrelevant and the % boost amount even more irrelevant. I'd much rather have the 100% Gallant Display bonus.

Unfortunately not, GD only gets 30% bonus dmg and healing at Tier 3 (and 60% power cost but its irrelevant).

16K-23K at start and 18K-26K at tier free for me without any buffs.

I did a quick test.

Pure GD spam on dummy with herald, 9K HPS on 3 min fight.

GD casted out on Tier 3 with Inspire, 21K HPS on 3 min fight.

Now, GD scales better with more people because every individual will get the same amount of heal, while Inspire will only give 100% benefit for the capt and for the song brother, the rest of the fellowship will get 60% (power or heal or both, idk).

Anyhow, based on the above test, GD + Inspire would slightly be ahead of pure GD spam.

GD did 4.150 HPS / target
Ins did 6.050 HPS / target but would only do 3.630 to the rest of the team (4 people not counting the herald).

So in a 6 man fellowship, GD spam would result 24.900 HPS while GD and Ins would do 26.620 HPS.
(Without buffs, BH ect.)

The difference is small, but still, the fellowship will get power regen and if you are only concerned about tank healing, Ins + GD is clearly better as long as you keep the song brother on the tank.


If you have different result, pls. let me know.

[Joedangod]

Unfortunately not, GD only gets 30% bonus dmg and healing at Tier 3 (and 60% power cost but its irrelevant).

Hmm, my mistake. Could've sworn there was a 100% written on the tooltip at some point but perhaps my memory is a tad faulty there. As for the rest of it, doing Gallant Display and Inspire will obviously perform better overall HPS-wise, my comments weren't referring to that at all. I'm saying you lose effectiveness on Gallant Display due to this meaningless cashout, I'd prefer Gallant Display was the thing being improved by the stacks, the Inspire interaction is not at all interesting.

Cappy has an issue where a lot of its healing is being cranked out constantly via HoT's, so I really don't appreciate one of the skills you're spamming off-CD effectively nerfing one of the few burst/reactive heals the class has (I'm aware Gallant Display itself is kinda mediocre as things currently stand). I'd appreciate Gallant Display getting buffed to the point where it can somewhat function as a more responsive heal for spike damage and I'd like the gameplay loop of maintaining the tiers to be part of that. Inspire just throws it away for no reason.

[Cafat]

Hmm, my mistake. Could've sworn there was a 100% written on the tooltip at some point but perhaps my memory is a tad faulty there. As for the rest of it, doing Gallant Display and Inspire will obviously perform better overall HPS-wise, my comments weren't referring to that at all. I'm saying you lose effectiveness on Gallant Display due to this meaningless cashout, I'd prefer Gallant Display was the thing being improved by the stacks, the Inspire interaction is not at all interesting.

Cappy has an issue where a lot of its healing is being cranked out constantly via HoT's, so I really don't appreciate one of the skills you're spamming off-CD effectively nerfing one of the few burst/reactive heals the class has (I'm aware Gallant Display itself is kinda mediocre as things currently stand). I'd appreciate Gallant Display getting buffed to the point where it can somewhat function as a more responsive heal for spike damage and I'd like the gameplay loop of maintaining the tiers to be part of that. Inspire just throws it away for no reason.

No worries mate, I was wrong on the hot duration, I've wrote 12 sec but its 15 sec for Ins.

Yes, this is a design question you have brought up which is strictly connected to the design of the fights in general.


While I would keep the current design which is layering hots, rotating CDs and keeping up buffs, Valour could be the thing you build up and cast out.

In its current form, it doesn't affect game play in any way and doesn't contributes to sustained or to burst heal, so it's mis designed.