Orc Reaver - Feedback

[SSG_Orion]

Please put all feedback relevant to the Orc Reaver here.

[Spilo]

- Miss chance isn't nice

- Removing immediate from Disarm/Charge isn't nice- clunks up the class a ton

- Sundering 3% pmit is nice, but isn't strong enough

- Class still could use a bit more utility- as it is feels like Reavers can now cycle their rotation faster, but not a whole lot more

[galrodan]

Some thoughts on reaver changes:

TL;DNR
The good: fun mechanics.
The bad: more RNG and situational defeat skills.
From the fights I’ve had reaver definitely feels better than compared to live.

Immediates and Charge
Blood of Fire, Charge and Disarm no longer being immediate is not something I was not expecting. However, with the new upper hand, I do understand why this has been changed but not having Disarm as an immediate to animation cut is a HUGE nerf as it interrupts the flow of skills firing. On Live Disarm is an animation cutter first and a debuff second. The animation cut from disarm is a crucial part of a reaver rotation. Personally, I'd give up a lot of the new upper hand only to have Disarm as an immediate. Charge no longer being an immediate is understandable but the nerf to the out-of-combat charge (going from 8s to 6s) will result in situations you barely miss out on someone riding away on horseback where with the 8-second Charge they could have been dismounted. I understand that the blade toss knockdown somewhat makes up for this is adding more rng to a class that is overflowing with rng. Make charge 8 seconds or make it so blade toss knockdown is 100% if you have positional/or dismounts. The in-combat charge will not be used for anything but catching up to a running/kiting freep due to its long animation. The run speed buff and duration are fine (even if compared to freepclasses it's nothing) but having no slow immunity makes it pretty useless.

Upper Hand
The new Upper Hand is an interesting mechanic. However, with it reducing 3 seconds, a reavers rotation is going to revolve around it. Should 1 corruption removal change an entire rotation? It seems to me like a very powerful mechanic if played well but very easily countered. Perhaps change it to a debuff you can hide behind other debuffs? Even if it gets nerfed to -2 or -1 seconds. Gotta keep in mind that the corruption removal skills are pretty unequally spaced around freepside. LM is going to have an absolute nightmare with removing corruptions, while other classes have one on a 3 second cd. I'd like to see an undying rage approach with upper hand where the freep can choose to remove the corruption but that too has an effect. This should be a small effect.
Cooldown of Thrash doesn’t get reduced by upper hand corruption.
Improved sudden strikes no longer reduces the cd of wrath. I don't know if this is a bug or not. Haven't had enough fights to see how this plays but again. A mechanic that you could rely on working to decrease wrath CD has been turned into something that you can't rely on. Perhaps the morale boost makes up for it but perhaps consider slightly lowering the cd of wrath or make it so improved ss only get rid of -1s of wrath active cd.
Blade toss;
I really like that reavers have some kind of cc. However now reaver knockdown is gonna be like WLs shieldbash where you can knockdown every time the freep immunity runs out. That’s awful to fight against. Again this is if the upper hand corruption doesn’t get removed.

Undying rage from reaver perspective;
Undying rage change to 50% morale threshold and making the orc immune to death is a welcome change because now it can be used without completely changing the playstyle. However should a 7min cd skill be counted by 1 or 2 corruption removal skills? Yes, you can mask it with upper hand and rng double edge. (again, this is bringing rng into yet another reaver skill) Just seems like a 7 minute cd skills shouldn’t be countered by using 1 or 2 skills that cleanse corruptions. This also indirectly nerfs freepclasses that don’t have as many corruption cleansers. A suggestion I have is a tiered DR system. You start with 5 or 4 tiers or whatever and if a tier gets removed undying rage becomes less powerful. Lastly you need to slot upper hand and double edged blades (and if you slot double edged you really need to slot the stupid GiV trait) to have the choice to mask DR. so to have 1 skill not be insta removed you need 2 class trait slots and 3 to be realistic.
Undying Rage still kills you with and without corruption. Its not just the 50% morale tap.

Double-edged Blades
I like Double-edged Blades but it's RNG. Again adding more RNG to an RNG-heavy class. It should remain a corruption. My fear is also that the difference in damage taken at the start of a fight vs at the end is going to be too great. With GiV and double-edged strikes increasing in-coming damage and relentless going down to 0%. (spilo also mentioned this) I’d like to see severing strike receive a buff where it guarantees +1 tier of double edged blades. This skill is not gonna be used given the current reaver on br (and on live). Severing Strike can be excluded from the active cd reduction so you have 1 tier per 20 seconds min. tier up. Takes away the rng a little bit at least.
I haven't had many fights on BR but given that reavers already take a lot more damage when they are almost dead on live and now adding more incoming damage worries me. Especially when it combines with freep debuffs.

Defeat response skills:
TL;DNR: Having big downsides to RNG-activated skills is a bit weird. For solo reavers, it doesn't make sense whatsoever. When in raids it's a bit better as you're getting more defeat responses and can put debuffs on yourself as long as you're not focused. still weird though. Should be rewarding skills with little to no downside.
With the Double-edged Blades corruption now also have reavers taking +2% Incoming Damage for each tier. Can we get rid of the stupid trait for Glory in Victory? Perhaps nerf the heal and change the trait to make it better? GiV is still gonna be the 'main' defeat response, even with the changes to the other skills. As the other skills are situational.
There's no morale cost for Blood lust. Don't make this too big or it won't be worth using at all. I like the change where the buff increases the potency with each cleanse. If this is gonna be a skill for raids/very situation when solo or an actual good alternative to GiV depends on how much morale it takes.
I don't see myself using the new Time Out a lot. Perhaps in a raid scenario where you're being targeted but being bursted while having a defeat response up is again RNG. As in; you see you're getting bursted and the only thing you can do is hope for a gut punch crit while kiting. From a solo perspective, I don't see much use in the new Time Out even though it's better than the old one. Perhaps during oathies but all and all it's a very situational skill that usually isn't up.

Personally, I'd like to see defeat response skills be simple buffs (heal, damage boost and cleanse) even if the buffs would need a little nerf. Making them have downsides makes them more situational (the more the downside the more situational) which IMO is not a good idea when it comes to defeat response skills. Then again, balance should be around 6v6 and in that scenario they make a lot more sense then for solo play.
Jagged cut AoE arc change is a great quality of life change.
As Spilo said. Sundering blow debuff should probably just be a straight mit debuff a little more than 3%

Mulatic
R14 Reaver
Arkenstone

[Vo1c3zzz]

Here are my thoughts:

-- Dust 40% miss chance feels horrible to play with and against. Winning and losing a fight based on a dramatic miss chance is not a reward experience for anyone involved. We went through this (and still do to an extent) with burglars and I do not think it is a healthy mechanic to go back to

-- Disarm not being immediate feels terrible to use. It may partially be because it not even a “fast” skill at the moment which results in an incredible delay between the previous skill and disarm when disarm is a debuff that needs to be applied quickly to line up with burst for disruption. At the very least it needs to be a fast skill but preferably an immediate as it helped the class flow.

-- Sundering blow getting a mit % is incredibly nice but I feel it should be slightly higher and include tactical mits. In theory, reaver can trait fire damage which means sundering would not be helping us at all which feel strange. There really is not space to trait fire damage with the vast amount of almost required reaver traits but if we were to trait it, Sundering would not do much besides the armour which is less than a % debuff. Armour is 1:1 to with creep armour (1000 armour = -1000 beleriand mits) which means armour debuffs are strong against creeps. The tooltip on armour for creep says only 20% of armour debuff goes to non-common mits but really 100% does. Furthermore, creep armour can go negative which perpetuates this issue further but our armour value is high enough now that it does not really matter anymore. I say this because the “armour being 20% of your non-common mits” is true for freeps which means our armour value debuffs on them are pitiful and bad. This is why we are advocating for straight mit debuffs instead of armour ones.

-- The upperhand corruption I find to be very interesting. It adds a lot of variance to combat with the magnitude of the cooldown reduction. This makes the decision making in a fight more interesting but seems to end up with just spamming bleed skills to reset cooldowns and ignoring things like Severing Strike, Serration, and even ravage as it does not reduce CDs. This is a very exciting mechanic but maybe reducing the magnitude by a second could be healthier. I agree with Mulatic however in that some freep classes are going to have a much harder time dealing with such a powerful effect.

-- Double edged Strikes. Another very cool addition to the game but the rng of it feels horrible and it is very hard to try to maintain. The inc damage for stacking it up is a cool idea but I am not sure how it will play out considering freeps damage numbers are beyond crazy right now that it might be a death sentence to use. This being yet another class trait further exposes the class trait bloat problem on reaver and requires you to use Glory in Victory trait even more (I will touch on this issue later). The proc chance needs to go up on this for it to realistically be used, otherwise it will get be removed at t1 every time as it takes an incredible amount of time to stack it.
-- Charge. The reduction of duration on out of combat charge feels very bad as it can already be tricky to catch up to a horse and I think should be reverted. The in combat charge is an incredibly nice addition but if it is only 4s and 50% speed, I think we should at the very least be immune to slows for the duration. The first second or so of charge is already taken up by the animation of the skill where you cannot press anything so it feels fairly wonky to use anyways. I personally do not think it should be an immediate skill in combat and it should be used for a light escape when focused in raid and/or a way to cross the fight to your target. Immediate would be interesting depending on your intentions for the class but keeping it as a fast skill and just giving it slow immunity if the duration is only 4s would be more than fair in my opinion.

-- Thrash. The DoT buff is very strong; however it will be removed basically immediately in any solo situation. We do not have enough effects to actually mask it so it essentially ticks once or twice in the majority of situations before getting removed. This removes both the DoT damage and the added damage to impale. This skill is also on a 30 second cooldown (10s longer than the base CD of impale), the initial hits are barely stronger than ravage (a 4s CD) and the AoE is beyond negligible. If the DoT was not curable, I could understand the long CD but considering it gets removed instantly (or even resisted) it seems crazy that it’s a longer CD than Impale (and dev strike I guess) AND is not even reduced in CD by the new corruption

-- Class traits. Reaver has had a class trait bloat issue since forever. We have 7 class trait slots with what will now be 5 required traits to be there always leaving 2 slots to “flex” into other traits. Resillience, Jagged cut, Dev Strike, Glory in Victory, and Upperhand are way too powerful and mandatory to take in normal gameplay. This leaves Burning blades (if you want to go tactical, again not buffed by sundering blow at the moment), Against the Odds Enhanced, Extended reach, Blade toss, Double edged. FIVE more traits that are all very good to try to use. It is arguable that Blade Toss is required solo which makes it 6 slots of the 7 taken up but blade toss could now be dropped in raid where it would never be before with these changes. Honestly, glory in victory trait needs to be removed as the inc melee damage is beyond outdated at this point and it feels awful to have to trait it so we don’t take extra damage from a skill that should just be buffing us. It would at least allow us to decide between damage types, added targets, or a heal from ATO as viable options because as of now a few good traits just could never ever be taken.

-- Jagged cut. Just a note that the jagged cut arc is still wonky and heavily favored to the right side of the character. While it adds a bit of diversity to using skills on the class, it makes it hard to hit on enemies during lag and/or when either the reaver or the target is moving quickly. Like charge, dying rage, champ sprint, guard charge, etc.

-- Resilience. The bug where you do not get any benefits from resilience remains if used as an actual CC break. For example, if I use resilience before any CC is applied, I get two buffs: “Immunity” Which gives the immunity to daze, stun, knockdown, slow, etc for 15s and “Protection from Slows & Roots” for 10s. However, if I use resilience after I am stunned to break the CC, you get neither of those buffs and only get the “Temporary state of Immunity” buff which does NOT give slow, root, silence, disarm immunity essentially making resilience a bad CC break. This in practice and has been this way since resilience was a skill, means the reaver never ever uses resilience to actually break cc unless you absolutely need to, but it is dramatically worse to use it to break cc rather than wait out the CC then use it. I am not sure if this is a bug or a design choice, but this same issue does not happen with the rank 15 brand as if you use the brand to break CC, you still get the “immunity” buff like you should. A prime example of how awful this is, if you have DoTs up on an RK that uses armour of elements that chain dazes you off any Auto attack, skill, or DoT, you have to very precise on when you hit Resilience. If you press it in the split second you get dazed, you break the daze and get almost no time of immunity. If you press resilience in the split second you are not dazed, you get the 10s+ of immunity.

-- Time Out. Finally, a skill we can use to help us when we are focused in a raid. The cleanse and damage reduction are nice, but it seems hard to use. It is a skill you would want to press to momentarily let you survive but it being tied behind a gut punch crit means it will be rare you can have it up in the moment you want it. On top of this, you also do 75% less SKILL damage which is dramatic. So, to use this skill I must sacrifice using Glory in Victory for heals, require a crit on gut punch (8s CD) at the right time, AND sacrifice 75% damage. I feel like this skill could simply not require a defeat response and retain the -75% skill damage and maybe reduce the cleanse amount to 1 or 2 effects instead. It is a 7s duration with a 40s CD (could make the CD longer even) with big downsides of using it. Allowing us to use it without a defeat response means we can respond to focus in a raid rather than just running in a circle and hope for a gut punch crit.

[Urundus]

A lot of good stuff has already been said, but here's my 2 cents based on the first round of BR. Plus some documentation on the changes.
Haven't had time to look at/test everything yet. Will probably follow up soon with another post on Upper Hand CD's, Double-Edged Blades math, Undying Rage and the defeat response skills.
Might also work in some of my own suggestions for other skills in that post.

---

Sundering Blow

Before	After
-213000 Armour Value	-168000 Armour Value -3% Physical Mitigation

Good start, but as already mentioned before it should get a Tactical Mitigation component as well for Burning Blades (the fire damage trait) while at the same time it will offer more group support for other classes.
The 3% is still very low though. So my idea would be to allow both the Armour Value and Mitigations to tier up to 3 times between reavers.

---

Blinding Dust

Before	After
+20% Miss Chance	+40% Miss Chance

I do not like this change. Like the people above here have already said it's infuriating to fight against like we've experienced with burglars. If we do want to keep a high potential of miss chance on Dust I would prefer it to be 15%, but allowing it to stack up to 3 times between reavers.
This will also help with Dust being immediately cleansed by the plethora of cure abilities on freepside.

---

Disarm

Before	After
Immediate Melee Skill	Melee Skill

Dropping the immediate from Disarm absolutely guts reaver rotation as it's rather crucial when chaining. It's also needed when countering certain inductions. I would prefer the immediate being reinstated.
This skill can also be resisted, which is kind of weird.

---

Jagged Cut

Before	After
90° frontal cone to the right	180° frontal but still tilted to the right

Appreciate the fix, thanks. Still crooked to the right, but I can live with that. Do have a bone to pick with the trait though.

---

Enhanced Skill: Jagged Cut

Before	After
	+15% Lacerate and Mutilation Bleed Damage

While damage is always appreciated this feels kind of goofy. Reaver is already struggling with the available trait slots and this one remains mandatory due to it adding a bleed to Jagged Cut which is necessary for Impale.
What I would like to suggest is to have the bleed default on the skill Jagged Cut, and have this trait add initial hits to all four bleeds. This way the trait is no longer mandatory while still giving the opportunity to add a significant (AoE) DPS bump with bleeds.

---

Thrash / Savage Wound

Before	After
T1: 15-21k T2: 15-21k T3: 15-21k	T1: 35-51k T2: 53-76k T3: 71-101k

Good change. This skill was very lackluster for a curable 30s CD bleed. Although the curing still is a bit of an issue. Not sure if it's possible, but have the bleed tier down when cured instead of fully removed?

---

Sudden Strikes

Before	After
-3s Wrath Active Cooldown

Not in the patch notes, but Sudden Strikes no longer reduced the CD on Wrath. Intended or not? Wrath really isn't that strong but does provide a sustained amount of healing.

---

Devastating Strike
I'm confused by the patch notes on this, as it's kind of vague.
"Devastating Strike now has a 15s/8s cooldown and a threshold require of 33%/50 for the differing variants decreases the incoming healing on a target for 8s and increases the damage done by 150% and 250% for the normal and enhanced version respectively."
So the CD is working as expected.
The threshold for the normal version is still 50%, just like the enhanced one. From the notes I distill that the normal version would have a 33% morale threshold?
Duration of the Incoming Healing debuff is still 15s for both versions instead of the 8s mentioned in the notes. Afaik, it can also still be resisted, which has always been a strange thing a bit of a pet peeve of me.

---

Blade Toss

Before	After
	-20% Run Speed Duration: 5s

Solid change. The patch notes do say though that the duration is 15s, yet in-game it's 5s. Typo? (Un)intended?

---

Enhanced Skill: Blade Toss

Before	After
-40% Run Speed Duration: 10s	-40% Run Speed Duration: 10s 50% chance to apply 4s Knockdown

Amazing change. Reaver was the only class in the entire game without any form of CC, highly needed. Although, the RNG aspect is a bit weird, but Upper Hand potentially solves that.
Here as well the patch notes do say that the duration is 15s, yet in-game it's 10s.

---

Upper Hand

Before	After
-120000 Block Rating -120000 Parry Rating Duration: 15s +68600 Armour Value Duration: 15s Cooldown: 15s	-120000 Block Rating -120000 Parry Rating Duration: 15s +68600 Armour Value Duration: 20s +50% chance for Blade Toss to knock down your target Cooldown: 15s

Patch notes mention that "Upper Hand now has a 15s reduction of B/P/E by 120k on a target" but the tool tip only stats B/P and so is the reduction.
Talking about that, Upper Hand applies but is not shown as debuff on your opponent's vitals.
Increase in armour duration is nice as it allows you to now have a 5s window where both buffs stack. That being said, the buff itself is still fairly low though.
Blade Toss knockdown chance is great as it allows for a 100% chance and less RNG while freepside has the opportunity to counter it by removing the corruption.

---

Enhanced Skill: Upper Hand

Before	After
-200000 Block Rating -200000 Parry Rating Duration: 30s +68600 Armour Value Duration: 15s Cooldown: 15s	-200000 Block Rating -200000 Parry Rating Duration: 30s +68600 Armour Value Duration: 20s +50% chance for Blade Toss to knock down your target With Improved Upper Hand, combat skills will reduce active cooldowns Duration: 20s Cooldown: 15s

Cooldown reductions is an extremely fun and promising mechanic. I will probably do a follow up post later on this specifically with some thoughts and experiments on which skills are being effected.
One thing to note is that Ravage doesn't seem to proc the reduction effect.

---

Charge!

Before	After
Immediate Sets Run Speed to 200% You become immune to all combat states while charging. Duration: 8s Cooldown: 20s	Immediate Sets Run Speed to 200% You become immune to all combat states while charging. Duration: 6s Cooldown: 24s

Also not part of the patch notes but a massive change. Charge is the only way you are able to somewhat catch horses, when jumping them off guard. Lowering the duration makes this very difficult for reavers. The immediate was in place to prevent reavers from being CC'd out of a charge.
I'd really want to see these changes being reverted, returning to the original Charge! Thus it being an immediate with an 8s duration and a 20s CD.

---

Rush!

Before	After
	+50% Run Speed Duration: 4s Cooldown: 24s

Amazing change, allowing reavers to have some form of sprint. Run speed is additive, which means you're not slow immune, which is fine.
A suggestion I'd like it make is to allow Rush to break slows and roots, but again, not giving immunity to them.
The skills flavour text is also the same as Charge and doesn't match what the skill does.

---

Resilience
So Resilience still has the same issue as it's always had. When you break CC (in this case a Stun, didn't test with Daze or Fear) with Resilience you will not get the 10s immunity to slows.

---

Enhanced Skill: Resilience

Before	After
You gain immunity to daze, stun, knockdown, root, slow, silence, disarm and fear effects for a short time. Duration: 5s	You gain immunity to daze, stun, knockdown, root, slow, silence, disarm and fear effects for a short time. Duration: 15s

Same issue goes for the Enhanced version. Breaking CC with it neither gives the 10s slow immunity nor the 15s CC immunity.
Weird scenario, but when you have the 5s immunity from the r15 brand, you do get the 10s slow immunity but not the 15s full immunity.
Glad to see some other issues are fixed though. It used to be the same when breaking slows with it or when using it while you still had temp stun immunity from being stunned recently.
Will still have to check the immunities against other freep slows and CC, as some skills had the tendency to flat out ignore the immunity and still apply.

---

Blood of Fire

Before	After
Immediate Cooldown: 1m 30s	Cooldown: 30s

No longer an immediate, but that's fine as it's not the purpose of the skill anyway.

[Thorandril]

if savage wound lands, tiers to 3, and sticks it is the highest damage skill by a factor of over 2x the damage of the next skills behind it. but the only classes it sticks on will be classes that can't remove multiple wounds, which is like..... captain? you can't keep debuffs and wounds applied to almost anything because of condition cures. so thrash is pretty much pointless if it isn't included in the cd reduction.

reaver feels quite a bit more potent, and has good counter play associated with it that makes me less skeptical than i was about the changes. i find myself not using time-out because when i proc a gp crit I either need the GiV heal immediately or the attack duration/phys cure from bloodlust. It will be useful for group combat when you are focussed, or raid fights. but even then relying on either gut punch critting or someone dying around when you are focussed is so weird and niche that it makes this skill hard to fit in anywhere.

the loss of 2 immediates but addition of cd reduction through upper hand is going to just have people sub in against the odds to cut one of the reavers long animations (they're all really long, so pick literally any one) to get impale off early or any burst rotation they're attempting to go through.

and i'm not sure about the dispelling of dying rage with a corruption removal. the cd's of removals vs. DR are a bit at odds.


The only things that should be addressed otherwise are severing strike and maybe jagged cut bleed, the latter of which is only useful for impale, the former is useful as filler I guess if you need another 3s cd cut while upperhand is active. Overall changes are good, dev. strike and charge/blade toss are big winners. Thanks for the work, reaver will be competitive again.

[Urundus]

Alright, so here's part two. I haven't had much time during last BR so I didn't get to play around with the new Undying Rage, so I'll skip this skill for now.

Double-Edged Blades
Fun skill in theory, but will probably need some more tuning. Did some test and calculations on proc chance which I would like to share.
For now we'll be assuming a 30s window as this is also the duration of the corruption buff before expiring. During a 30s window you can get about 4 Ravages and 7 Sudden Strikes in whilst still maintaining a normal rotation against a dummy.
This does not factor in any kiting, so take this as a sort of an optimum value in a controlled scenario. This also does not factor in Devastating Strike being able to proc the corruption as this skill is conditional and 1-2 hits more isn't going to dramatically change the situation.

With 4 ravages (12 hits) and 7 Sudden Strikes (14 hits) you're sitting at a total of 26 hits spread over 30s with a proc chance of 15%.
Throwing this into a binomial distribution gets us roughly a 1.5% chance to not get any procs, a 77% chance to get 3 or more procs and a 35% chance for 5 or more.
Within the 30s window a single freep could dispel 1 at the very least (being LM) and up to 10 (Guard/Champ). It's probably safe to say that on average a freep could dispel about 2-3 corruptions in a 30s window.
As we can see tiering up is going to be a bit of a pain, especially when we start to factor in dynamic fights and freeps actively dispelling the corruptions.

Suggestion:
I'd like to suggest the following changes to help with maintaining some corruption tiers.

• Increase the proc chance to 20%. This leaves us with a 0.3% chance to not get any, a 92% chance to get 3 or more and a 62% chance to get 5 or more while using the same scenario as described above.
• Give Severing Strike a 100% chance to add a corruption tier. This would give the reaver a tier every 20s, allowing to maintain stacks when having some serious bad RNG and not proccing for the entire 30s duration of the corruption stack.
• Increase the proc chance for Devastating Strike to 100% as the skill is conditional.

Upper Hand Corruptions
The Upper Hand corruption has two separate buffs attached to it and I'd like to address them separately.
First suggestion I'd like to make is to split these two into separate corruptions. Both buffs are very potent and feel almost crucial for playing but can instantly be countered by a single dispel.

Allow the Blade Toss knockdown corruption to tier up, as the duration of the corruption is 20s and the CD of the skill 15s. A tier can be consumed whenever Blade Toss is used. This should also help with dispel issues.
Add some sort of downside for dispelling (or not dispelling) the corruption like we already have with Reckless and Undying Rage. A simple suggestion could be that Blade Toss CD is reset upon this corruption being dispelled.

Allow the CD reduction corruption also to tier up, without increasing the reduction. Acting as a sort of mask for instant dispels.

From the patch notes:
Skills affected by the corruption cooldown effect are: Sundering Blow, Blinding Dust, Disarm, Severing Strike, Blade Toss, Impale, Devastating Strike, and Mutilation.

I don't necessarily agree with this list of skills being affected.

• Sundering Blow - Already has a low CD of 10s and is not part of any rotation. Will be applied at the start of the fight and is then never touched. Lowering it's CD is useless.
• Mutilation - Already has a low CD of 10s.

I would want to propose to instead add the following skills:

• Thrash - Has a very long CD of 30s and a curable bleed. Would be my go to skill for any CD reduction effect.
• Against the Odds - Might be controversial but with this skill having a 3min CD, resetting CD's on a few select skills and, while using the trait, giving a 15% heal this skill has fallen to the wayside.

Defeat Responses
We currently have three defeat response skills to use, for which I would all like to make some proposals. There's currently little distinction between all and Glory in Victory will remain the go-to defeat response if nothing changes.

Glory in Victory
This is currently the most used defeat response skill for a reaver as it's one of the few sources of decent HPS and also adds damage. I'd like to propose the following changes to make this the go-to healing defeat response.

• Remove the +10% Skill Damage
• Remove the +10% Incoming Melee Damage
• Remove the Enhanced trait
• Half the healing pulses but have them proc every 2s instead of 4s.
• CD increased to 30s.

Time-Out
This skill got changes with the Beta to cure effects and provide an incoming damage reduction and outgoing damage reduction. I think this changes is fine as it's now the tank defeat response. But I would want to suggest the following:

• No longer requires a defeat response to activate.
• CD increased to 1 min.

Blood Lust
This defeat response got changed this BR to consume physical and wound effects and add a tiering critical bonus. I feel like it has some heavy competition with Time-Out while adding damage, making the aforementioned redundant.
I'd rather see this as the go-to damage defeat response leveraging on the new Double-Edged Blades trait and reducing RNG.

• No longer removes physical/wound effects.
• No longer has a morale cost.
• Provides a base -10% Attack Duration and +5% Critical Chance for 30s. Doesn't stack.
• Adds -5% Attack Duration and +1% Critical Chance for each tier of Reckless currently present. Buff tiers up to a maximum of 5 tiers and lasts for 30s. Tier can increase when the skill is used again while not at 5 tiers yet.
• Consumes a tier of Reckless and adds a 10% Skill damage buff for 30s. Doesn't stack.
• CD lowered to 20s.

[mald123]

These smart reaver's above really nailed it! Listen to them!

I just want Dying Rage to stay the same and just add the immune to death.....since we die anyway.

Also please consider an AoE stance and Single target Stance.

K thank you

[Spilo]

Thanks for nerfing Dust, reverting Disarm, and, hey, Blood lust buff is cool.

Biggest thing for me is that Reaver still doesn't have a class identity outside of its sustain. It's outpaced in Single target DPS by both BA and Warg, and has significantly worse utility/debuffs than both. I've had some ideas on how to make Reaver a relevant AoE class, but maybe that's too ambitious currently.

If AoE isn't the goal, then Reaver needs to have the highest utility/Debuffs, the highest Single-Target sustain DPS, OR the best Single-Target burst between BA/Warg, and all changes done should be with that in mind. GiV/Wrath healing is just not relevant in Group vs. Group.
If you reworked Wrath so that it gave Reaver a significant Attack duration reduction AND then buffed the single target skills/DOTs massively, that would be one option (aim for Reaver with Wrath doing more DPS than any Creeps during that 10s window). I'm sure the Reaver mains could come up with some better ideas, but with all of these changes, Reavers still won't be invited to groups, casual or otherwise.

[Vo1c3zzz]

Thank you for the changes so far! Like Spilo said, reverting dust and disarm is great, and blood lust is much more interesting now. Further than that, allowing Thrash to be less CD than Impale is a change that was sorely needed as well as allowing Ravage to reduce cooldowns (assuming this gets fixed to work). I understand we are at the end of the implementation stage of this round of development so the only two things I would like to talk about to still be considered is this:

1. Time-Out is a much-needed defensive for Reaver as right now Reaver is basically fodder when they run into a freep group and fall over once they get focused as the heals and “sustain” of a Reaver is not meant to deal with that kind of damage. Glory in Victory heal is for one slow,and for two requires RNG with a gut punch. Wrath does not heal very much anymore so you basically hope you get saved, which almost never happens compounding the reasons Reavers are not taken to group content. Time-Out is a potential solution for this but in its current state is instead almost useless unfortunately.Requiring a Gut Punch crit to get the value means you will often not have it up for when you need it to be. It is 7 second duration so the chances you have this ready for focus is very low so it just will not get used much. It already comes with a hefty damage loss, but I feel you could bump the cooldown up a bit and maybe reduce the cleansing but take the skill off requiring a defeat response. It would go a long way to have a button to press when you are taking the incredible amount of damage freeps are doing right now. Keep the detriments for pressing the button though.


2. Sundering Blow. Finally having a -% mit debuff is a welcomed change as armor debuffs are very bad and outdated. However, 3% is low and the fact that it is only Physical Mit feels weird considering we can trait to do Fire damage which will not benefit from this debuff at all. I feel like tact mit should be added to this in some regard but the debuff could see an increase in some way.


These are just basically echoing or "bumping" the suggestions others had, but I wanted to present it one more time.


Again, what Spilo has said, Reaver still suffers some from alack of identity, but I think a fair amount of this could be addressed by simply adding damage to reaver skills to make the riskier play-style of simply being melee better. Changing wrath into a more offensive cooldown is a neat idea,adding debuffs/effects to severing or serration are also ideas. There are a lot of ideas and things that could be added to this class but I wanted to touch on simpler issues that could perhaps be realistically considered at the end of this implementation phase. I am very excited for all these changes and am very positive about everything done so far, thank you.