Orc Defiler - Feedback

[SSG_Orion]

Please put all Orc Defiler feedback here.

[Spilo]

Need to make sure that stance-dancing isn't abuseable in combat, and there's a chance that the damage stance needs an additional skill.

Would be nice if Herb-Tender had a single target IC rez as well.

[Daec]

Copied from other thread.

Orc Defiler:

• The trait 'Enhanced Curse of Sticky Feet' now reduces Fire Mitigation and an appropriate amount of Tactical Mitigation for level 140; however, the debuff is now a cleansable wound effect.
• 'Anointing of the Slick Flesh' now removes up to three Physical or Tactical effects.
• 'Constant Pain' now deals significantly more damage and significantly less healing.
• 'Curse of the Lethargic Heart' debuff potency increased slightly.
• 'Curse of Deadly Sorrows' now reduces an opponent's Fate, Tactical Mastery, Armour Value, Resistance, and and Finesse.
• 'Curse of the Melancholic Heart' now reduces Outgoing Healing by 50% (from 25%).
• 'Gooey Gourd' now increases Skill Inductions by 100% (from 20%) but is now a cleansable poison effect.
• Summoned Flies improvements:
  - Regular summoned flies from 'Plague of Flies' now last 10s and deal much less damage, but have more morale, and significantly increased evade chance.
  - When traited, Improved flies now last 20s (down from 30s) but have a greater miss chance debuff, more morale, and even greater evade chance.
• 'Efflorescence' induction increased from 1s to 2s.
• Morale cost of Fell Sacrifice increased to 2% of max morale.
• Gourd skills base inductions increased to 2.5s.
• New stance: 'Curse-shouter':
  - Reduces outgoing healing and increases damage.
  - Reduces inductions of Gourd and Curse skills.
  - Disables 'Efflorescence'.
  - Alters 'Fungal Bloom'.
  - Reduced healing, increased cooldown.
  - Applies a 30s buff 'Poison Bloom' which increases potency of Damage over Time effects.
  - 'Fell Restoration' becomes 'Doom of the North':
  - Doom of the North deals Frost damage and applies a Fear that counts down for 5s before dealing significant Frost damage to the target. If cleansed, the effect deals significantly less damage.
  - 'Fungal Spores' becomes 'Stinging Spores':
  - Stinging Spores deals a small amount of Acid Damage, as well as Acid Damage over Time, and stacks up to 3 times on a target.
• New stance: 'Herb-tender':
  - Increases healing and decreases damage.
  - Healing skills gain the ability to tier up the 'Invigorated' Corruption effect on allies, increasing damage, reducing attack speed, and increasing incoming healing.
  - Curses become Boon skills which apply Corruption buffs to allies.
  - 'Curse of the Lethargic Heart' becomes 'Boon of the Blackened Heart':
  - +15% Damage dealt
  - 'Curse of Rotten Flesh' becomes 'Boon of Toxic Flesh':
  - -10% Incoming Damage
  - 'Curse of Deadly Sorrows' becomes 'Boon of the Battle-scarred':
  - Increases Armour, Beleriand Mitigation, Light Mitigation, and Resistance Rating
• Fixed some out of date & incorrect tooltips.

Defiler feedback, a lot of this will mirror one of my previous posts in the MP forums, but after seeing the changes on BR, i've added some additional in.

Herb-tender: Seems in a good spot on for it's intended purpose, the boons, heals, and RNG corruption it applies are all nice for various reasons. The boon induction time seems a bit long, but this really depends on the pace of combat over all.

Curse-shouter: Overall its nice defilers finally got a DPS stance. The DPS in it seems a slightly on the low side, and i don't think the defiler will do enough damage to overcome any freep classes' self healing. A small bump here would be helpful.

Curses/gourds (curse-shouter): The fact gourd skills have inductions (0.5s) is a huge hinderance and overall makes the class feel awful to play. Make both curses and gourds usable on the move with no induction. The skills themselves are nice however with the little bit of messing around i did.

Also the power to drop curse-shouter stance and throw your full heals/hots (as stanceless) is very powerful and will make the defiler almost unkillable (granted they won't be killing much either). Adjust the damage in curse-shouter upwards and add a tail debuff (-50% healing) somewhere between 8-15s to exiting curse-shouter like minstrel warspeech used to have.

Make the Curse of the Sticky Feet worth something, at least in curse-shouter. Perhaps the stance modifies the skill (along with the trait) to be a 30-40% slow total.

Plague flies: For an AoE 25% ranged miss chance, and a 10% general miss chance the evade on the flies is actually insane, it will definitely keep them alive and make them useful in group/raid fights, but it seems a bit too high for melee/ranged (the ones its hindering) to get rid of. They're swarm level mobs so i'm assuming mits are low, but in 1v1 testing they've expired before champs have been able to kill them. Raid situation rks/lms/minis should be able to dispatch them relatively easy. If this is the intended design, then its spot on.

[CHEBURASHKA]

Basic problems:
1) Cleanse problem: all creep curable debuffs are almost useless in group pvp because freeps have tons of cleanse skills on short CD (some of which are even raidwide).
How to solve it?
- Either add tier system to debuffs and bleeds (e.g. 1 debuff requires 3 cleanses to remove it and becomes less potent with each cleanse)
- or give creeps more curable effects so that they could spam them more often; decrease CD on these skills; make them aoe
2) Fear resist problem: ‘Muster Courage’ (+40% fear resist raid wide buff) in combination with other resist buffs make all ‘Fear type’ skills resist all the time.
How to solve it?
- make these skills ignore a big portion of fear resist that freeps have (40% for example)
- change skill resist type from Fear to Disease, for example



Defiler:
1) GIVE DEFILER INCOMBAT REZ (2-4m CD) and nerf WL rez accordingly (reduce max targets).
Reasons: a) freeps have way more incombat rezzes than creeps and that is especially evident in small group pvp (example: 6 man group with 1 wl has 1 rez for 5 targets, while freeps with cappy, blue mini and yellow RK have 4; WL DOES NOT REZ when 5 targets are dead, it rezes when 1 is dead so the amount of targets is irrelevant here).
b) freeps can win most fights by focusing Wls first because that leaves creeps with no incombat rezzes. Creeps can’t do the same because there are a lot of classes that can rez on freepside. (example, focus WL with oathies and that’s it; creeps have no CD to save WL from that, defiler bubble is useless because it is easily negated by skills that interrupt induction).
c) WL rez is almost never used for 5 targets in small group pvp (6-12 man groups). Is is used for 1-2 creeps. You can’t wait till 5 creeps are dead because you won’t be able to kill anything or heal.
2) Make Fear CC ignore 40% fear resist. This skill is one of the best CC on creepside and the fact that it is blocked by ‘Muster Courage’ is bad.
3) add 5s CC immunity and immunity from interrupt skills to ‘Blessing of Darkness’. Reason: currently this skill is ABSOLUTELY USELESS AS A DEFENSIVE CD against good freeps because it can be immediately interrupted. That is especially true in small group pvp (6-12man) where freeps can just prepare in advance to interrupt this bubble when they burst some creep. Increasing this skill CD slightly might be also needed if you actually add 5s immunity.
4) 100% induction debuff is too high even though it is cleansable now
5) miss chance from flies seems too high, i think you should reduce it
6) Curse of deadly Sorrows tact mastery debuff is too strong, reduce it by half at least

[Carved]

I really like the direction you're going with Defiler, and I think it's a great first pass.



As Daec said, Curse-shouter is going to want induction-less gourds, able to be thrown on the move, and probably the same goes for curses (though having some inductions is not the end of the world - Doom of the North could stand to be around 1s).

Tenderize, of all the damaging skills, sticks out like a sore thumb. Very low damage, and a largely useless effect. Would be nice to see this changed in to something different, either double down and make it an actually useful CC/utility ability, or just another DoT or something.

Curse of Deadly Sorrows is way too much, completely bottoms out any Fate the target might have (I had hoped we were getting away from mechanics related to power), and 500k Tactical Mastery is just an obscene number. But of course, it can be removed, so it's either: crippling or useless. A bit extreme.
(Edit: A similar story with Gooey Gourd's new +100% induction debuff, as Oiz pointed out.)

If running out of damaging skills to press is a concern, might I suggest lowering the cooldown of Constant Pain to 5s, or even removing it completely, making it the go-to filler when all else is spent. I think this would create a nice flow of back and forth between gourds/curses and channelling.
(Edit: In addition, an initial tick would be nice, so you're not waiting 2s after pressing the skill before doing any damage.)

Efflorescence being disabled, while Fungal Spores and Fell Restoration were converted to damage skills, seems like a bit of a missed opportunity, and sticks out a bit. Not sure what you could turn it in to in Curse-shouter, but I think it should probably be something.
(Edit: After playing around a bit more in Curse-shouter, the lack of an interrupt ability was noticeable. The currently disabled Efflo seems like the perfect place to put one.)

The increased movement speed debuff from Enhanced Skill: Curse of Sticky Feet needs to be bumped up a bit, to end up making the skill debuff around 30%-40% movement speed. The mitigation values are fine and should not be increased.

Damage across the board could be turned up a bit, perhaps on skills other than Fire Gourd which is a clear outlier in terms of throughput contribution.



As for Herb-tender, I think it's mostly excellent.

However, inductions are basically up across the board and I'm not entirely sure why. The 2s inductions on Efflo/Fungal Bloom really bog the class down, and it feels very sluggish going between instant cast HoTs and having to stand still for 2 whole seconds. Personally I hope they return to the 1s they were before, or at least 1.5s as a compromise.

Turning Curses in to Boons was a stroke of genius, major props to whoever came up with that. Don't have any particular suggestions for them right now, we'll have to see how their effects play out.

I think it's about time for an in-combat rez for this stance. Defiler is the only healer in the game without access to one. Nothing crazy, just as others have suggested - a single target rez with a moderately high cooldown.



All in all, really positive stuff. I hope you are able to fully commit to making DPS defiler viable, by either leaving a heavy trailing debuff upon dropping stances, or even just making them usable out of combat only (such as swapping trait trees).

[voodooalien]

I'm going to be real rough at the start here against Curse-Shouter but I'm going to try to give it a fair shake. I don't really like the idea of a DPS stance for defiler so I'm a little biased going into this but here it is:

Curse-Shouter: I'm going to say the DPS is far too weak to be viable at all. Most of your dots are curable and most of your skills require you to be standing still to use for very little pay off especially considering Head Breaker and Fire Gourd are still your best skills in regards to damage. The stance as a whole really doesn't feel great to play, feels clunky, and doesn't have any real synergy with its skills and just feels like toss gourds wait for CD. It lacks any kind of role outside of debuff/DoT which is something the Weaver already does and considerably better. It feels like this stance belongs more in the level 60-65 era rather than the current sandbox. The lack of any kind of CC or slows also makes it more difficult as you have no counter to any slow or CC that every class you'll be fighting has access to. Giving the defiler a more potent slow while in Curse-Shouter and perhaps consider making Tenderize into a guaranteed stun rather than a maybe mez. Allow the defiler to use Fire gourd, Plague gourd, and Explosive gourd on the move, you can even keep the induction on them just please for the love of god let us be able to move. Having to constantly stop to toss any of these skills really messes with the flow of combat especially in the current sandbox of the game. I'd like there to be a little more synergy between skills as it really feels clunky and messy just randomly throwing gourds that don't benefit you hardly at all. Plague gourds B/P/E debuff doesn't help you much as most of your skills are tactical and I really feel like a B/P/E debuff isn't worth the same as it may have been many years ago. I feel like this could perhaps be changed to increase DoT effects on a target(This would apply to all DoT effects on the target including others) to better pair with the defilers role while in Curse-shouter to weaken targets.

In terms of aiding skill synergy, perhaps consider having HeadBreaker also increase the DoT effect of Stinging Spores(Or vice versa) to incentivize these skills to work together more. Maybe allow HeadBreaker to refresh the duration of Stinging Spores as well and allow the defiler to maintain these DoTs on a target. Having Sticky Feet benefit fire gourds is good but the fire mit debuff could be raised to 10% rather than 5% as that's what it used to be many moons ago. If we're going for a DoT tactical type DPS then consider playing into this trope more and giving more ways for the defiler to increase DoT effects on a target that also allow for some group play benefits. Consider giving the defiler the ability to stack DoTs and keep them refreshed with various skill usage to maintain a sense of purpose between skill cooldowns and allow proficient players the ability to maximize damage output with skill mastery.

Stinging Spores: The new Stinging spores seems to be resisted a lot as well. I had 35% finesse and was still getting resisted fairly frequently and even if it didn't resist I didn't find that the DoT was worth the effort to throw to begin with. Maybe add some kind of resistance, incoming damage or mitigation debuff attached to the skill itself to give the defiler more reason to use it as well as the above mentioned synergy with head breaker( In addition to not in lieu of)

Doom of the North: I like the idea but not the execution. I like less RNG in PvP and knowing "Ok, I lost because I didn't do X/Y/Z" and this skill just feels like there's too many "ok, IF". If it lands you have to hope it isn't cured, if it isn't cured you have to hope that the damage doesn't get resisted anyway, if it doesn't get resisted you have to hope that it crits for it to do any real damage.(This is a problem for most of creep side as anything less than a crit does too little damage and almost always determines a fight which is not fun for either side) on top of the requirement to stop and use a lengthy induction. I'd rather see this turned into a powerful debuff that negated all positive effects on a single target(This would include -incoming damage effects). This would give creeps a counter to the stack -inc damage trope and allow some counters at least to various skills and abilities that simply have none right now.

Constant Pain:I'm not a fan of Long, Channeled skills that offer no pay off and are just boring gameplay wise and that's pretty much what this is. The range is too short, the damage isn't worth being rooted in place and the healing has never been something that was viable. Ideally I'd like to see this Morphed into a debuff of some sort that the defiler can either inflict and lasts for a duration or simply toggles onto a target(Like a captain mark). It can retain the damage/heal element but I think it'd be more interesting to have it as a short duration debuff that either negated or reduced the effectiveness of temporary morale bubbles. There's not really a counter to morale bubble spam for creeps( Outside of simply nuking the target) I feel like this could at the very least give creeps a counter to a persisting problem.

Defiler Curses: I feel like most of them are fine(I'm sure many will disagree) as is, though I would like to see Rotten Flesh increase incoming damage to 10-15% rather than 5. Increase the CD if you have to but the 5% is not worth the induction+stopping healing/DPS whatever you may be doing now. I'd rather see Curse of Deadly Sorrows reducing mitigation values rather than armor similar to Reaver. Lethargic heart is mostly fine though I feel like the Vitality debuff is a relic of a bygone era.(Much like creepside in general)


Before I tackle Herb-Tender I'd like to ask why Fungal Bloom is back to a 2 second induction. I get it's hip to hate on defiler but this seriously messes with defiler healing and as freeps are still capable of nuking you in the blink of an eye I find myself asking why this was even changed? If the pace of combat were to slow down back to the days of 50-65 cap I'd be more open to this change ( I'd actually like combat to slow down a bit and for inductions to be longer again) But in the current sandbox and how fast paced people dying is and action in general, I feel like this could perhaps be rolled back for now as defilers only strength is HoT and being able to maintain multiple people with HoTs while in group since the defiler lacks any ability to reduce or negate incoming damage(Blessing is a redirect not a negation of damage)

Herb-Tender: Now, I like where your heads at here. But.
Again the 2 second induction time really kills it for me. I already ranted on that so moving on
Buffs: I like all of these I'd really only like to say this: can we eliminate or reduce the induction time on these? It really messes with the flow of gameplay having to stop and wait. You can keep Boon of the battle scarred induction at 1.5 seconds if you really have to but I'd like to see these reduced if at all possible or have fast lob affect these as well( Maybe it's supposed to? If so it's bugged and not)

Boon of Toxic Flesh: Only applies to 3 targets and should affect the entire group instead

Blight: If you're playing into the healing stance aspect of this and to differentiate the play style a little bit more maybe consider turning Blight into an incoming healing ground effect similar to captain banners or a similar boon or buff ability of some sort. Perhaps calling it Fungal Sanctuary and allowing it to apply +Inc healing or increase out going damage. . Again just a thought.

Constant Pain: Similarly retool into a buff or boon of sorts to allow a more varied play style between the stances: Buff resistance values to physical/tactical effects or boost mitigations. just thoughts

Fell Sacrifice: This is a point of contention for most people and I have to say for years I was of the opinion defiler did not need an in-combat rez(Still mostly am) And would have rather the skill simply not have a cooldown like every other OOC rez in the game. I would like maybe to see the traited version become in-combat just so the defiler has more utility to bring one person back rather than wasting a WL rez but it's far from the top of my priority list which I know many will disagree but figured I'd throw my two cents in there.

Invigoration Corruption: So, I'm sure others will mention this but having a completely random buff that you have no control as to whether or not it's applying is just not a fun gameplay mechanic. I'm sure plenty of people will try to defend this and I don't hate the idea but the fact that the buff is pretty much forced to rely on multiple people healing the same target for me is just a turn off and a no no when balancing a class. The defiler shouldn't need other defilers to function at its full value and capacity nor should any class have to rely on RNG to bless them. Skill should be measured by how you play the class not by the lord messiah RNGesus. I'd rather the buff be retooled into something that is more consistent and easier to plan around rather than a hailmarry that either wins you the fight or leaves you at the end going "Oh man if only!". Perhaps have blessing of darkness apply the buff or even constant pain. Anything that gives the defiler control over their buffs and skills and the freedom of when and how to use them.

That's all I got. Overall I like Herb-Tender and its bonuses I'm just not a fan of the RNG nature of Invigoration. Curse-Shouter I'm not really sold on or a fan of but I see the potential to give creeps a tactical DPS focus and allow for some counters to various annoyances. I'm sure most of this is outside the realm of possibility but that's my two cents. If you made it to the end I salute you. That's all.

[Daec]

Orc Defiler:

• The trait 'Enhanced Curse of Sticky Feet' now reduces Fire Mitigation and an appropriate amount of Tactical Mitigation for level 140; however, the debuff is now a cleansable wound effect.
• 'Anointing of the Slick Flesh' now removes up to three Physical or Tactical effects.
• 'Constant Pain' now deals significantly more damage and significantly less healing.
• 'Curse of the Lethargic Heart' debuff potency increased slightly.
• 'Curse of Deadly Sorrows' now reduces an opponent's Fate, Tactical Mastery, Armour Value, Resistance, and and Finesse.
• 'Curse of the Melancholic Heart' now reduces Outgoing Healing by 50% (from 25%).
• 'Gooey Gourd' now increases Skill Inductions by 100% (from 20%) but is now a cleansable poison effect.
• Summoned Flies improvements:
  - Regular summoned flies from 'Plague of Flies' now last 10s and deal much less damage, but have more morale, and significantly increased evade chance.
  - When traited, Improved flies now last 20s (down from 30s) but have a greater miss chance debuff, more morale, and even greater evade chance.
• 'Efflorescence' induction increased from 1s to 2s.
• Morale cost of Fell Sacrifice increased to 2% of max morale.
• Gourd skills base inductions increased to 2.5s.
• New stance: 'Curse-shouter':
  - Reduces outgoing healing and increases damage.
  - Reduces inductions of Gourd and Curse skills.
  - Disables 'Efflorescence'.
  - Alters 'Fungal Bloom'.
  - Reduced healing, increased cooldown.
  - Applies a 30s buff 'Poison Bloom' which increases potency of Damage over Time effects.
  - 'Fell Restoration' becomes 'Doom of the North':
  - Doom of the North deals Frost damage and applies a Fear that counts down for 5s before dealing significant Frost damage to the target. If cleansed, the effect deals significantly less damage.
  - 'Fungal Spores' becomes 'Stinging Spores':
  - Stinging Spores deals a small amount of Acid Damage, as well as Acid Damage over Time, and stacks up to 3 times on a target.
  - Leaving Curse-shouter stance now applies a trailing debuff which reduces Healing for 10s.
• New stance: 'Herb-tender':
  - Increases healing and decreases damage.
  - Healing skills gain the ability to tier up the 'Invigorated' Corruption effect on allies, increasing damage, reducing attack speed, and increasing incoming healing.
  - Curses become Boon skills which apply Corruption buffs to allies.
  - 'Curse of the Lethargic Heart' becomes 'Boon of the Blackened Heart':
  - +15% Damage dealt
  - 'Curse of Rotten Flesh' becomes 'Boon of Toxic Flesh':
  - -10% Incoming Damage
  - 'Curse of Deadly Sorrows' becomes 'Boon of the Battle-scarred':
  - Increases Armour, Beleriand Mitigation, Light Mitigation, and Resistance Rating
• Fixed some out of date & incorrect tooltips.

Round 2 feedback.

Barring the skills be usable on the move, which i assume requires a more technical change to the skill itself, the reduction in explosive, fire gourds and doom of the north inductions are a step in the right direction, solid changes. I'd like to see this reduction applied to plague and gooey gourd as well.

The tailing effect on leaving curse shouter should be a bit longer imo, defiler heals still feel decently potent when dropping stance, should be 15s duration at the very least to align with stance CDs.

Barring anymore larger improvements to the class, making curse of the sticky feet at least 30% slow when traited (or tie some of the slow potency to curse shouter so heal stance doesn't have a potent slow if thats a concern) would be the biggest improvement to both classes' functionality and quality of life and is honestly something that's been asked for for years at this point.

Edit: also decoupling the DoT potency buff from fungal bloom onto something else would be nice, having to stop and induction a 2s cast time skill for a marginal dps increase is a bit meh.

With constant pain being more focused towards DPS now with the significant heal reduction on it, just do away with the heal and up the DPS significantly, damage is pretty low currently, and for how easily interruptable channel skills are the dmg should be significant since you're probably only going to get a couple ticks off, also it literally draws a line to the source if someone was confused on what needed to be interrupted :-P. Alternatively can raise dps by a more modest amount and lower the tick rate from 2s to 1s.

[Spilo]

The leaving curse-shouter punishment isn't strong enough to reasonably discourage the type of "cheese drop to stanceless then heal stance and survive any 1v1) which I assume is the goal. The 10s duration on the debuff isn't near long enough. A damage oriented defiler is still going to be able to drop stance, gain access to all its heal skills, and hang in there for 10s (which, is -75% outgoing healing, not as impactful as -75% inc healing), then full heal back up again. It's literally the equivalent of a yellow RK changing traitlines midfight

Additionally, would be nice to have some insight on exactly what is the purpose of the Defiler DPS stance. Is it just a quality of life change for questing/1v1 options? Is it supposed to compete for a group spot? If the latter, then what is its niche? I feel a debuffing/buffing Yellow Minstrel/Burg hybrid would be the aim for the class design, but that would mean opening up the buffs that are locked behind its primarily heal stance, and letting a DPS Defiler contribute by enabling teammates and disabling enemies along with its DPS support.

[Strider3x3]

...
Barring anymore larger improvements to the class, making curse of the sticky feet at least 30% slow when traited (or tie some of the slow potency to curse shouter so heal stance doesn't have a potent slow if thats a concern) would be the biggest improvement to both classes' functionality and quality of life and is honestly something that's been asked for for years at this point.
...

For me a ranged interrupt skill to dismount freeps would be the biggest improvement. Curse shouter is useless if you can't even force a fight! How about: While in curse shouter, curse of the sticky feet becomes an immediate skill that interrupts? Would be useful in addition to the debuffing (and disrupting) role of curse shouter.

Getting a decent slow follows close behind, sure. But it would simplify kiting significantly for a class that can already heal on the run... Binding it to curse shouter is a great idea indeed!

[Daec]

For me a ranged interrupt skill to dismount freeps would be the biggest improvement. Curse shouter is useless if you can't even force a fight! How about: While in curse shouter, curse of the sticky feet becomes an immediate skill that interrupts? Would be useful in addition to the debuffing (and disrupting) role of curse shouter.

Getting a decent slow follows close behind, sure. But it would simplify kiting significantly for a class that can already heal on the run... Binding it to curse shouter is a great idea indeed!

The idea was floated by someone else to make efflo an interrupt in curse shouter, which since the skill is gray barred in the stance right now would be great and doesn't stack too much into 1 skill.

[JonXu]

Combat feels like dancing in the back of a slug. Inductions are kind of , boring. they feel boring.

[Carved]

...

I stand by what I said last week, with the main points being:

• Gourd inductions removed, with the ability to be used on the move in Curse-shouter only. In a pinch, just having 0s inductions is sufficient, if not a little clunky. Obviously 2 have been made this way already, would love to see the rest follow (including misc. things like flies)

• Damage brought up across the board, to similar levels as Fire Gourd, but excluding said skill

• Tenderize turned into a 100% daze on a 20s CD, if you don't have time to make it into a more compelling ability

• Efflo turned into an interrupt skill in Curse-shouter

• Remove the CD on Constant Pain and give it an initial tick. It will never be your best option for DPS to just channel it, however it will always be available as a filler, should you have exhausted all other options.

• Sticky Feet brought up to a 30-40% slow in Curse-shouter only (so tie it to the stance). Potentially delete the slow portion of the trait, leaving only the mit debuff traitable.

• Inductions on Fungal Bloom and Efflo are still 2s. I think 1.5s is a fair compromise

• In-combat rez for Herb-tender. You could make Fell Sacrifice work in combat for this stance, but change its CD depending on combat status, like reaver's new Charge. 10s out of combat, and 3-4 minutes in combat.

Last but not least,

• Fully commit to DPS defiler by making the CD of stances 30s, usable out of combat only, and adding class traits for each stance. Mutually exclusive to slot, with a heavy penalty for being in a stance without the corresponding trait equipped.

[Kate00]

The leaving curse-shouter punishment isn't strong enough to reasonably discourage the type of "cheese drop to stanceless then heal stance and survive any 1v1) which I assume is the goal. The 10s duration on the debuff isn't near long enough. A damage oriented defiler is still going to be able to drop stance, gain access to all its heal skills, and hang in there for 10s (which, is -75% outgoing healing, not as impactful as -75% inc healing), then full heal back up again. It's literally the equivalent of a yellow RK changing traitlines midfight

Additionally, would be nice to have some insight on exactly what is the purpose of the Defiler DPS stance. Is it just a quality of life change for questing/1v1 options? Is it supposed to compete for a group spot? If the latter, then what is its niche? I feel a debuffing/buffing Yellow Minstrel/Burg hybrid would be the aim for the class design, but that would mean opening up the buffs that are locked behind its primarily heal stance, and letting a DPS Defiler contribute by enabling teammates and disabling enemies along with its DPS support.

since you main a defiler tell us more.


revert efflorescence induction time back to the way it was.
heals are clunky.

looks like the vocal minority seems to have the loudest voice.

[why-becauseIcan]

I stand by what I said last week, with the main points being:
[LIST]
Gourd inductions removed, with the ability to be used on the move in Curse-shouter only. In a pinch, just having 0s inductions is sufficient, if not a little clunky. Obviously 2 have been made this way already, would love to see the rest follow (including misc. things like flies)

Why do some people want to change induction based classes to being able to instantly cast skills? I hate how they make inductions almost instant on many of the freep classes..Instead of making skills that takes longer to perform do more dmg/heal, they just remove induction or make it super fast that you can't even interrupt it is just bad gameplay. The charm about induction based classes in every MMO for me is that it takes some skill/planning etc to perform optimal. Its just part of the class you came to like. Should these classes no longer exist? If you don't like inductions on a caster class why not play another class?

Also, there is nothing wrong with a stationary class. I also dislike changing every class to being able to cast skills on the move, again it just makes the class less tactical and more easy to play.