Rings of Power

[Arnenna]

I'm still enjoying the series, quite a lot to be honest. Is it what it should be, no, its not, but it is entertaining.

[Kheld_GB]

RoP is trash.

LOTRO isnt.

Long live LOTRO.

[DavidmeetHal]

I never could bring myself to watch it. From all the lashing out on both sides of the coin, it just seems too much of a social issue to deal with it. Lenny Henry and Sophia Nomvete act like Lobelia snapping her fingers when she finally walked into Bag End, when it comes to them talking about themselves starring in the show. One side is "ROP doesn't follow the lore!", and the other side is "You don't like our show! That means you're racist!" It just takes the fun out of seeing it.

From my personal point of view, all I see is Identity Politics all over it. No thank you.



I have way more better things to do than watch a season of something I have no interest in. For example, I'm binge watching some Netflix series now, good stuff. Loving The Witcher.

[The_Worst_Player]

I never could bring myself to watch it. From all the lashing out on both sides of the coin, it just seems too much of a social issue to deal with it. Lenny Henry and Sophia Nomvete act like Lobelia snapping her fingers when she finally walked into Bag End, when it comes to them talking about themselves starring in the show. One side is "ROP doesn't follow the lore!", and the other side is "You don't like our show! That means you're racist!" It just takes the fun out of seeing it.

From my personal point of view, all I see is Identity Politics all over it. No thank you.



I have way more better things to do than watch a season of something I have no interest in. For example, I'm binge watching some Netflix series now, good stuff. Loving The Witcher.

There is so much baggage that goes with big entertainment that the game/show/whatever becomes irrelevant. It's all about someones opinion about someone else's opinion and which 'side' you're on that seems to matter. So I pretty much ignore it. And with youtube I don't have much trouble finding someone I enjoy listening to.

[TesalionLortus]

Yeah, except RoP is such a flop and huge offence to human intelligence (falling far behind PJ, House of the Dragon, the Witcher...) that it's kind of a "historical" tv moment that we're being witness to... The pinnacle of shallowness, repurposing and unsubtle irl agenda, no substance and no creativity as far as storytelling goes. (unless they reveal in the finale or Season 2 that my simulation matrix theory was canon all along, then I'll say they are geniuses!)

[Skyfoot_A]

RoP is trash.

LOTRO isnt.

Long live LOTRO.

Without RoP (nudging that nostalgia spark), some folks wouldn't have returned to LOTRO. Myself included.

They are two completely different forms of entertainment.

Making it some sort of juvenile competition between the two is pointless.

[Skyfoot_A]

Yeah, except RoP is such a flop and huge offence to human intelligence (falling far behind PJ, House of the Dragon...

Actual the Nielsen ratings have RoP doing double the numbers of House of Dragons for it's for 2 episodes and in subsequent weeks still pulling ahead of House of Dragon.

/shrug.

[TesalionLortus]

Without RoP (nudging that nostalgia spark), some folks wouldn't have returned to LOTRO. Myself included.

They are two completely different forms of entertainment.

Making it some sort of juvenile competition between the two is pure idiocy.

Well, not really, he just said it is trash according to him, while lotro isn't, and certainly there is plenty to compare because it's not like LOTRO shies away from dancing around the material they don't have the rights to.

Whether a nostalgia spark was raised is not relevant (this would happen as a result of ANY big Tolkien-based adaptation).

[TesalionLortus]

Actual the Nielsen ratings have RoP doing double the numbers of House of Dragons for it's for 2 episodes and in subsequent weeks still pulling ahead of House of Dragon.

/shrug.

isn't that the one that's being distorted when it's usually reported? (so like they are reports of how many people tuned in and checked out the episodes = watched for a few minutes, not how many actually watched the whole thing). And there are certainly legions of people checking out RoP... some of them fall asleep and drop it, as can be often seen in various places online. There was even a fun news piece about a certain analyst who was worried because he feel asleep during the first two.

[wispsong]

Well, not really, he just said it is trash according to him, while lotro isn't, and certainly there is plenty to compare because it's not like LOTRO shies away from dancing around the material they don't have the rights to.

Whether a nostalgia spark was raised is not relevant (this would happen as a result of ANY big Tolkien-based adaptation).

Just listened to Tolkien Untangled, how he would have done the first season and that sounded so much better.

[Celebrawn]

To keep it short, I've watched a few breakdown videos of what's been going on in that show, and all the gory little details that make the brain bleed, and I'm in utter amazement. And not in a good way.

[Skyfoot_A]

isn't that the one that's being distorted when it's usually reported? (so like they are reports of how many people tuned in and checked out the episodes = watched for a few minutes, not how many actually watched the whole thing). And there are certainly legions of people checking out RoP... some of them fall asleep and drop it, as can be often seen in various places online. There was even a fun news piece about a certain analyst who was worried because he feel asleep during the first two.

Nope. Nope to all of this ^^

[TesalionLortus]

To keep it short, I've watched a few breakdown videos of what's been going on in that show, and all the gory little details that make the brain bleed, and I'm in utter amazement. And not in a good way.

Oh, the gory little parts are actually interesting, believable and less boring things. But not even that seems consistent. In one scene there is a death by papercut, in another we get an orc bleeding from his eye socket in an obvious attempt to beat the 1 on 1 between Aragorn and Lurtz from PJ's FOTR. They're just doing things on a whim and randomly, apparently, from one episode to the next, no consistence. And all the main characters got plot armor of course so can't ever be too dirtied, wounded or tired, even if faced with an active volcano and a direct hit :P

[Skyfoot_A]

To keep it short, I've watched a few breakdown videos of what's been going on in that show, and all the gory little details that make the brain bleed, and I'm in utter amazement. And not in a good way.

Or you could have just watched a few episodes yourself and come to your own conclusion instead of being another one of those people who says something is bad because someone else told them it was bad even though they didn't actually watch it themselves.

Or you know, continue to rely on other people to tell you how to think.

[Skyfoot_A]

Like, I totally know this guy...he is like so well versed in the world of Tolkien or like, whatever...you know what I mean.

And like, he totally watched all the episodes of Ring of Power and he just OBLITERATED them, it was unreal.

Like, I never watched a minute of the show, but like...because this guy I know on the internet is like so...you know, into Tolkien...like, based on what he says...I KNOW I wouldn't like it.

I mean, it totally sucks y'know.

But I haven't watched it. At all.

Like, who has time?

It totally sucks though.

[Brunonono]

As a lover of Tolkien's lore and a deep reader of the text, I'm loving the show. And I refuse to let anyone spoil my enjoyment of it. Believe me, they have tried.

[TesalionLortus]

Nope. Nope to all of this ^^

If you mean the part about the ratings, I just checked to make sure and I think huge yes.

Here

"Nielsen “reach” figures — a measure of people who watched at least six minutes of a given program — for House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power are somewhat similar. The Rings of Power holds an edge among streaming viewers only, with 12.6 million people in the U.S. checking out the series over its first four days, compared to 10.6 million for House of the Dragon. Adding in viewing of the latter on HBO’s main cable channel, however, brings the total for House of the Dragon to 14.5 million; on-demand viewers and those who watch on HBO’s multiplex channels aren’t counted."

[Skyfoot_A]

As a lover of Tolkien's lore and a deep reader of the text, I'm loving the show. And I refuse to let anyone spoil my enjoyment of it. Believe me, they have tried.

Bravo! The show is far from perfect (what is?), but it's beautifully shot and the world and landscapes are something to behold. There are characters I love and characters that grate on my nerves. I will say this, I am no fan of SSG and how they have treated this game, but after watching the show I couldn't resist the urge to jump back into Middle Earth.

Looking forward to next week's season 1 finale!

[Vilan]

I've watched the first 3 episodes. I wanted to like it. But the terms "nonsensical" and "dumpster fire" spring readily to mind. Impressive visually, but the plot makes little sense and my interest is the characters is hovering around nil. One problem is that being set in the Second Age, it's trapped by things that have to happen later. So rather than wondering how someone's character arc will go, you already know the ending, so all that's left is to see how they get there, and I can't say I much care at this point.

[Skyfoot_A]

I've watched the first 3 episodes. I wanted to like it. But the terms "nonsensical" and "dumpster fire" spring readily to mind. Impressive visually, but the plot makes little sense and my interest is the characters is hovering around nil. One problem is that being set in the Second Age, it's trapped by things that have to happen later. So rather than wondering how someone's character arc will go, you already know the ending, so all that's left is to see how they get there, and I can't say I much care at this point.

Well, at least you actually watched some of it.

That's more than what can be said of a lot of people on here who tend to skew negative without even watching it.

I don't agree, but I respect that you at least gave it a shot.

[Beia]

As a lover of Tolkien's lore and a deep reader of the text, I'm loving the show. And I refuse to let anyone spoil my enjoyment of it. Believe me, they have tried.

I like it yep YEP.

Beia

[Trobon]

Well overall I am enjoying it. This latest episode had some confirmations that I was less than thrilled with, but at the end of the day - taking the show for what it is - I find it entertaining and enjoy watching it each week. I’ve looked forward to each episode and it keeps me wanting to see more. I’m really hopeful for future seasons and getting to see some big moments like the War in Eregion, the founding of Imladris, and the Fall of Numenor. I’m also liking a lot of the character arcs so far and the acting draws me in.

Could it be better? Yeah, probably. Is it especially lore friendly? Not overly. But I read the books for the books and don’t really feel that bad about some departures (although making Mithril have a magical light doesn’t make me thrilled). I’m glad it’s doing well in viewership so far and hope that continues.

[TesalionLortus]

Well, to each their own, I never begrudge anyone enjoying what they enjoy but I don't turn the blind eye to falsehoods and lack of reason either. Ever since the show's premiere I've been trying to find a take on it by someone who likes it, in an article or a blog post, that would actually talk in detail about the show's qualities that made them like it in the first place (or why they like these characters). But none of them actually talk about anything other than just some superficial factors at best or just projecting things at worst even though they aren't there on screen. So, for example, I've seen someone doing the mental gymnastics to justify Galadriel taking a swim from Valinor by saying elves are supposed to be "extraordinary" and besides people are silly because she was picked up by a raft (...in a forced, contrived deus ex machina scenario!) so "technically she wasn't trying" to swim across it... Hmm, ok, so they mean I'm not supposed to think anymore apparently? Or try to put myself in these characters' situations? But that doesn't mean the show is good and smart, if anything that's a reason why it's not, but they still try to pretend and tell us it is good. Bet people will be doing the same with that volcano blast from last episode. Not even Corey Olsen is convincing. Sure, he records these 2 hour long videos about the episodes but... these are all just anecdotes, easter eggs, lore name drops that just *happened, the end* but they are not really utilized in plots. Actually, all the things actually utilized in plots are very harshly repurposed or changed, and sometimes not even consistent from episode to the next, as it turns out. Many people talking in excitement seem to do that just like Olsen, seems to turn into Tolkien lecture and Tolkien anecdotes based in actual Tolkien (prompted by a show because a name was said, a prop was shown in the background or there was the visual artist's take on something specific here and there), but NOT about the show's plot, characterization, how compelling these characters are and things like that. Oh, and of course they never bother to mention any of the blatant changes or 'creative choices' - it's always look the other way and "oh, but it had this anecdote so it's great Tolkien!"

So I'm still looking and still can't find such wholesome enthusiastic review that's based on all factors that actually comprise a tv show and its story...

[Trobon]

Well, to each their own, I never begrudge anyone enjoying what they enjoy but I don't turn the blind eye to falsehoods and lack of reason either. Ever since the show's premiere I've been trying to find a take on it by someone who likes it, in an article or a blog post, that would actually talk in detail about the show's qualities that made them like it in the first place (or why they like these characters). But none of them actually talk about anything other than just some superficial factors at best or just projecting things at worst even though they aren't there on screen. So, for example, I've seen someone doing the mental gymnastics to justify Galadriel taking a swim from Valinor by saying elves are supposed to be "extraordinary" and besides people are silly because she was picked up by a raft (...in a forced, contrived deus ex machina scenario!) so "technically she wasn't trying" to swim across it... Hmm, ok, so they mean I'm not supposed to think anymore apparently? Or try to put myself in these characters' situations? But that doesn't mean the show is good and smart, if anything that's a reason why it's not, but they still try to pretend and tell us it is good. Bet people will be doing the same with that volcano blast from last episode. Not even Corey Olsen is convincing. Sure, he records these 2 hour long videos about the episodes but... these are all just anecdotes, easter eggs, lore name drops that just *happened, the end* but they are not really utilized in plots. Actually, all the things actually utilized in plots are very harshly repurposed or changed, and sometimes not even consistent from episode to the next, as it turns out. Many people talking in excitement seem to do that just like Olsen, seems to turn into Tolkien lecture and Tolkien anecdotes based in actual Tolkien (prompted by a show because a name was said, a prop was shown in the background or there was the visual artist's take on something specific here and there), but NOT about the show's plot, characterization, how compelling these characters are and things like that. Oh, and of course they never bother to mention any of the blatant changes or 'creative choices' - it's always look the other way and "oh, but it had this anecdote so it's great Tolkien!"

So I'm still looking and still can't find such wholesome enthusiastic review that's based on all factors that actually comprise a tv show and its story...

Well I don’t think my review will help with that because I don’t think everything can be excused or makes sense totally. You mention Galadriel swimming from the boat and honestly I think it’s a fine part to suspend my disbelief but I don’t think I could put myself in her shoes other than the possibility she went a tad bit insane when faced with the decision to go to Valinor, but even that would be a post-hoc excuse on my part more than anything I think the writers intended.

However, in spite of thinking it may not completely reach you I think it’s fair to ask for an enthusiastic review from someone who enjoys it, and its as good an opportunity to self-reflect on my feelings about the show, so here's what I will say about the seven episodes I have seen so far. First a little bit about where I am coming from. I have read most of what the Tolkiens have put out over the years. I have read the Simarillion, Hobbit and Lord of the Rings of course, but have also read Unfinished Tales, a lot of the Histories of Middle Earth, and the three Great Tales books. I have the Atlas of Middle Earth and a beat up copy of the Middle Earth Encyclopedia. So I'm definitely a huge fan. I'm not, however, a person who feels overly critical about things which go against the lore. To me something set in Middle Earth can take liberties and I will judge it based on the liberties it took and whether I think it enhances the story it tries to tell. If something can supplement the lore in a way that would fit in - like I feel Lord of the Rings Online often does - then that's great, but I don't hold it against a property for not enhancing the lore and have enjoyed things even to the detriment of the lore - for example Shadow of Mordor. I just wanted to say that because no review will matter without a little bit of an idea of where the reviewer stands on things like that.

So what can I say about Rings of Power?

Visuals: To get the most obvious out of the way. I don't think there needs to be a lot said about the visual aspect of the show. Even among critics many have agreed that the show looks great. It's sets have been really gorgeous, the CGI has - mostly - looked amazing. There have been missteps like the wolves (I can take or leave the wargs, but the wolves were really weird), but overall the story looks great. And its not just the spectacle of the sets and places for me. It's also the overall direction of the show. For example, in the most recent episode there is a stark contrast shown going from the fires of the newly formed Mordor to the calm stream water that helped evoke the innocence of the Harfoots and how far away they feel from Mordor and then that quickly follows up with devastation caused by fire, breaking the innocence of the scene. There are a number of examples of this kind of visual storytelling that I think works well and hits a lot of Middle-Earth beats to me.

Music: I don't think I can speak to the music of the show too much. I have enjoyed it soundtrack for the most part, and I can tell you that it had never taken me out of the scene, but at the same time I don't have an ear for music in the way others do. I will say that nothing has had the same evocative through-line that both the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings movies did, but there have still been a couple of stand out pieces. The theme song is perfect and its little wonder that Howard Shore was behind it. Poppy's song also was something that was perfect. I know that it is a bit cheap to use lines from Bilbo's poem in the future, but at the end off the day whether borrowed or not it did the job of capturing the beauty that I have seen from Tolkien's world.

Characters: No that I've gotten some of the easy stuff out of the way I'll talk about the characters. I can readily agree that there are certain character choices which are made that do not make sense. However, for the most part I think the characters feel authentic in most situations and the arcs that they are currently in the middle of have kept me engaged and invested in them. One of the big divisive points is Galadriel, and I have had journey in my feelings for her character. I enjoyed her in the first two episodes, but she quickly left me wanting for more. I thought her impetuousness got old fast and hoped that it was a starting point for her to grow. In the latest episode especially I think that hope is coming to fruition as I have seen her start to come to terms with her faults and how destructive they are. Her chiding Theo about his hatred of the Orcs was viewed by some to be hypocrisy and I think to an extent it was, but at the same time I think she knows how much pain her own hate is causing her and those around her and she doesn't want that for herself or others.

Part of this is sold, in my opinion, by the acting of almost the whole cast. Galadriel's actress has had it the hardest because her character was so limited for so long, but in the past two episodes I've seen a bit of subtlety which sells her changes. At the end of episode 6 when she looks at the cloud of Doom coming at her you see her breaking. She looks resigned to the idea of dying and seems to realize that no matter how hard she fights she can't stop terrible things on her own. In this last episode there were times when she was talking to Theo where it seemed to me to show on her face that she was feeling pain over how much hate she has internalized.

Of course, the rest of the cast is mostly great as well. Adar and Durin IV's actors are definite stand outs, but Elrond, Durin III, Elendil, Halbrand, Disa, Stranger, and Nori all are very good bringing the emotion of their characters out. Adar brings a whole new realm to the Tolkien world, showing an elf who had been captured and broken in a way we never got to see elsewhere and in my opinion enhances the lore of the world in a way I discussed before. The dwarf cast play up on dwarf society and just how strong of emotions they feel in a way the movies never were able to. I feel Durin's friendship with Elrond more deeply than I ever did Gimili's with Legolas in the movies and while I understand some feel it hasn't been "earned" I think there's only so much you can do in a visual medium without focusing all your attention on the pair and it doesn't feel unnatural either. I don't feel its any more or less "earned" that Gimli and Legolas.

Elrond is an elf to me. In Fellowship of the Rings Sam describes elves as feeling young and old at the same time after meeting Gildor's troupe. That is how Elrond feels to me. So often the elves have felt old and eternal which is one aspect of them, but missed the youthfulness elves were also supposed to have. He brings joy and pain out in good measure and reminds me why elves were so important to me when I read Lord of the Rings.

Finally, we have the Harfoots. This is a divisive one, but I like them a lot. I find their story charming, down to earth, but also with a level of peril that halflings should have had before they settled down. To use this as a slight soap box, they didn't put Nori's family at the back of the caravan because of her father's broken leg as some have chosen to interpret it. They originally were going to have them at the front setting the pace. They did it because Nori brought danger into their tribe and broke a cardinal law. A rule that was supposed to lead to exile, but instead Sadoc put them in the back of the train. Sadoc is another character I love the acting for by the way. He really sells a leader who is being pulled by everyone in the tribe in different directions and is trying to hold the whole thing together.

I could go on about more characters, but overall, I think the characterization has mostly been a highlight of the show for me. It's carried me through some of the miss-steps in the plot at least. Speaking of which...

The Plot: So this is the part I have the most misgivings about. Mostly, the plot involving the elves. There have been a number of times where I think the showrunners and writers have really miss-stepped in their decisions for the story. Making Mithril Magic and giving the elves a deadline is an obvious and blatant one. There was next to no reason to have this subplot. It exists only to cause drama which could have been done in other ways. And it detracts from the lore instead of adding to it. As I said above, I am carried through it because Elrond and Durin IV get amazing character stories because of it, but that doesn't mean I think it couldn't have been or shouldn't have been done in some other way. Galadriel being sent to Valinor only to jump off the boat at the last minute is another part that doesn't feel right or sit right with me.

However, there have been plots I have been hooked by. The current state of Numenor and the internal politics of the nation are something I have been interested in for a long time and seeing a small bit of it play out so far has been really great. It's not exactly how it was described, but that doesn't bother me because its a subplot that is intriguing and has good potential for great story beats. That being said, its early and I won't put the cart before the horse on it. The Southlands plot was probably, plotwise, the best and that's unfortunate because it wasn't that astounding. It has had intrigue surrounding the orcs still being a threat, good story beats ramping up the tension over time in the episodes, digging things deeper into trouble, and then - if you will pardon my pun - an explosive climax with a good (not great, but good) battle and catastrophic ending.

As for aspects where I have to suspend my disbelief. That doesn't really bother me all that much. I am fine with Galadriel living the volcano. I am fine with her living as long as she did swimming. I don't think that's turning your brain off as much as it is allowing for mythological storytelling to overcome reality. Everyone has a different level on how far they can or will suspend their disbelief for that, but mine hasn't been broken yet.

Overall, the plot is definitely the weakest point of the show for me so far. And this is the part where I can see where critics are coming from the most. I have enough hope that it will pick up in later seasons when less needs to be established, but that is definitely optimism on my part.

The Tone: This is the final thing I'll touch on. I think where the plot fails, the tone and themes of the show still shine through. I will try to avoid the "Tolkien anecdotes" and small background pieces you talked about above. While some of those definitely add to the tone, there is more than just that for me. The themes of the show resonate with me as Middle-Earth themes. The Harfoots have a theme of innocence trying to make their way through a dangerous world, keeping to their own ways and traditions to stay safe, but being thrust into a bigger world than theirs and into the danger they have for so long avoided. It handles these themes differently from the Hobbits of the Shire, but in a way that fits the world to me. Galadriel's story showcases themes of Elvish pride and ancient oaths leading to the downfall of heroes and entire peoples in ways that can never match the Simarillion, but still feel right in the world. The dwarves play into the themes of ambition and tradition and how those aspects of society can clash violently with one another and looks to play further into ambition leading to downfall in the future. While at times the plot has been nonsensical and the dialogue has had its ups and downs the tone and theme of the show has consistently felt like Middle-Earth to me and resonates with me on the same wavelength as the books have. While other things can feel like a story with a Middle-Earth veneer, ignoring what the showrunners want to, the theme and tone of the show bring it back and make it a Middle-Earth show again for me. And I hope that wasn't too vague. I know its a bit subjective, but I think there were enough examples to showcase my thoughts.

The tone and characterization are what bring me the most enjoyment of the show so far. I have hopes that the plot will be better, but these two things bring me back to the show and give me something to look forward to each week. If it weren't for some of the plot dragging it down I would easily say this is among my favorite pieces of Middle-Earth media outside the books. But the plot makes that impossible to do right now. But at the end of the day I still can be brought int and enjoy other aspects of the show and hope the plot and some of the dialogue choices catch up a bit.

[Celebrawn]

Or you could have just watched a few episodes yourself and come to your own conclusion instead of being another one of those people who says something is bad because someone else told them it was bad even though they didn't actually watch it themselves.

Or you know, continue to rely on other people to tell you how to think.

I can think for myself just fine, but thanks anyway.
Lol, that's like saying just because there have been ten murders on this subway in the last week, you should still ride it to see how safe it is when nobody is getting murdered.
I've seen enough, there is no context you could put these flaws into that would make them go away. What I've seen also came with detailed commentary about what was going on in the episode, my jaw was constantly on the desk, and I'm thinking does this really exist?
I love Galadriels' orc-explosion slash hanging upside down on her horse, and swinging away from her momentum, btw. And her surviving a pyroclastic flow, and beign the most insufferable personality I migth have

Well i guess I didn't keep it short after all, someone had to egg me on, lol.