Question about LI Slot upgrades

[GozmitJosh]

So me and my friend reached level 101 and decided to reforge/buy new traceries for our legendary weapons as we were still using level 95 stuff.

i have just upgraded all my old traceries and reforged my weapons to level 101 and am confused about the item level of the tracery slots and how they work. So to begin with i had a legendary weapon i reforged when i became level 101. And finally replaced my level 95 traceries with level 101 traceries. I noticed ALL my tracery slots item level went from 125/125 -> 201/215, and two of my slots went from from 85/125 -> 201/215. So now ALL my tracery slots are sitting at 201/215 regardless of how many enhancement runes i used on them previously or not, i thought cool, going from 85/125 to 201/215 just from swapping out an outleveled tracery with a current level tracery was great as i didnt have to spend any enhancement runes.

So i helped my friend upgrade their legendary weapons as they havent touched them at all besides a few reforges, and they havent used many enhancement runes, (they had not claimed any rewards from their legendary tracker either). So their legendary weapon was sitting at level 95, and ALL traceries were level 95 and the slot/item level was 85/125. They had plenty of ancient scripts after claiming all those rewards, so i had them buy new level 101 traceries and equip them. They now have all of their slots/item level sitting at the same as mine 201/215.

So im wondering what the point of me using my enhancement runes would be, if when i equip the next tier of traceries my slot level minimums increase anyways? is it just to fill in a gap a bit until we get to the next tier?

[Belechael]

So me and my friend reached level 101 and decided to reforge/buy new traceries for our legendary weapons as we were still using level 95 stuff.

i have just upgraded all my old traceries and reforged my weapons to level 101 and am confused about the item level of the tracery slots and how they work. So to begin with i had a legendary weapon i reforged when i became level 101. And finally replaced my level 95 traceries with level 101 traceries. I noticed ALL my tracery slots item level went from 125/125 -> 201/215, and two of my slots went from from 85/125 -> 201/215. So now ALL my tracery slots are sitting at 201/215 regardless of how many enhancement runes i used on them previously or not, i thought cool, going from 85/125 to 201/215 just from swapping out an outleveled tracery with a current level tracery was great as i didnt have to spend any enhancement runes.

So i helped my friend upgrade their legendary weapons as they havent touched them at all besides a few reforges, and they havent used many enhancement runes, (they had not claimed any rewards from their legendary tracker either). So their legendary weapon was sitting at level 95, and ALL traceries were level 95 and the slot/item level was 85/125. They had plenty of ancient scripts after claiming all those rewards, so i had them buy new level 101 traceries and equip them. They now have all of their slots/item level sitting at the same as mine 201/215.

So im wondering what the point of me using my enhancement runes would be, if when i equip the next tier of traceries my slot level minimums increase anyways? is it just to fill in a gap a bit until we get to the next tier?

You are correct.

Use the runes as you find them on your items, because the moment you get to the next tier you will get a bump on your min/max levels for your traceries regardless of what you have enhanced before. This is to ensure that all the players start on the same footing if you may, at certain reset levels.

[GozmitJosh]

Kinda wish i knew that before i spent scripts on enhancement runes with my "excess" scripts. As i assumed it was similar to the older LI system where the slot stayed the same "rank" and you farmed scrolls of empowerment to upgrade them.

I guess i wont be spending/bartering any currencies for enhancement runes and will barter for tracery boxes to flame for scripts instead....until i hit the max level at least.

[Hastran]

It can never be said often enough...read a Guide before delving into the new LI system.

Here is one: https://lotroplayers.com/2021/10/06/li-guide-u30-3/

[Tinuredil]

There are break points in the LI progression. I think you might want to look at the lotro wiki chart on this page, scroll down to see the chart...

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Legendary_Item

[DoRonRon]

Kinda wish i knew that before i spent scripts on enhancement runes with my "excess" scripts. As i assumed it was similar to the older LI system where the slot stayed the same "rank" and you farmed scrolls of empowerment to upgrade them.

I guess i wont be spending/bartering any currencies for enhancement runes and will barter for tracery boxes to flame for scripts instead....until i hit the max level at least.

It is why they have barter options for enhancements in every tier and variety in the archive but for the 131 LI range. To have you make you waste your Ancient Script and have all that investment thrown back in your face when you finally figure it out. Or you are even "dumberer" and buy MC to advance them and have that "loyalty" thrown back at you. It's not like Cord's LI page is going to highlight such is it?

[Neinda]

The new LI system is not exactly intuitive or user friendly.

When my character hit level cap rather than use enhancement runes I just removed my previous traceries (which were still active) and replaced them with the cheapest newer traceries available. The slots leveled and then I put the old traceries back on the weapon. Saved me the equivalent of several thousand ancient script and helped me avoid dailies. Whenever possible just replace the traceries and the slots will level rather than grinding enhancement runes. This is just another odd system with a built in exploit/glitch of sorts.

[Tralfazz]

The new LI system is not exactly intuitive or user friendly.

When my character hit level cap rather than use enhancement runes I just removed my previous traceries (which were still active) and replaced them with the cheapest newer traceries available. The slots leveled and then I put the old traceries back on the weapon. Saved me the equivalent of several thousand ancient script and helped me avoid dailies. Whenever possible just replace the traceries and the slots will level rather than grinding enhancement runes. This is just another odd system with a built in exploit/glitch of sorts.

Neinda, are you sure you are remembering that correctly? The item level of any tracery is the item level of the slot into which it is placed. Any time an enhancement rune is applied to a slot, the item level of that slot increases. Any time the LI is reforged at one of the "break points" (see the table in the section "Tracery Advancement and Item Levels" on https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Legendary_Item), the item level of that slot increases – by a lot! There is no need to unslot the traceries or put in traceries with a higher min/max level in order to benefit from item level increase of a tracery slot.

It is not at all obvious, even to someone who reads the wiki let alone other guides which tend to not mention this at all, that the tracery slot item level gets a big boost at various "break points" simply from reforging. As someone else mentioned, go ahead and use whatever enhancement runes fall into your lap but don't spend any Ancient Script to buy them until you are past the final "break point" because any enhancement runes used before that will be superseded by the first reforge you do upon hitting the next level "break point".

[Neinda]

Neinda, are you sure you are remembering that correctly? The item level of any tracery is the item level of the slot into which it is placed. Any time an enhancement rune is applied to a slot, the item level of that slot increases. Any time the LI is reforged at one of the "break points" (see the table in the section "Tracery Advancement and Item Levels" on https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Legendary_Item), the item level of that slot increases – by a lot! There is no need to unslot the traceries or put in traceries with a higher min/max level in order to benefit from item level increase of a tracery slot.

It is not at all obvious, even to someone who reads the wiki let alone other guides which tend to not mention this at all, that the tracery slot item level gets a big boost at various "break points" simply from reforging. As someone else mentioned, go ahead and use whatever enhancement runes fall into your lap but don't spend any Ancient Script to buy them until you are past the final "break point" because any enhancement runes used before that will be superseded by the first reforge you do upon hitting the next level "break point".

Going from 130 to 140 is a one time good deal that we can use this feature in the system as there is no difference in the traceries between 130 and 140. It won't work the same with other levels but will for the 130 to 140 window. I know several people who used this particular method to upgrade weapons and avoid using script or dailies to get enhancement runes. Make sure you get a scroll to remove the old traceries. Put on the least expensive new ones that you can find to raise the level of the slot (not the max level but the actual level) then overwrite them with the old good traceries. You save the difference in enhancement runes from the 130 weapon to the base 140 weapon. Anything that saves a bit of grinding and repetitive dailies is a positive.

[Tralfazz]

Make sure you get a scroll to remove the old traceries. Put on the least expensive new ones that you can find to raise the level of the slot (not the max level but the actual level) then overwrite them with the old good traceries.

This is the part that isn't necessary. You might have done this but I think you are misremembering exactly what happened when you did. All you need to do is the reforge, there is no need for removing traceries, slotting in other traceries, and then replacing the traceries you removed. I know I can't prove this to you just by writing it, and memory is a powerful thing to overcome. Maybe if Bullroarer is still up you can try it yourself there.

[Neinda]

This is the part that isn't necessary. You might have done this but I think you are misremembering exactly what happened when you did. All you need to do is the reforge, there is no need for removing traceries, slotting in other traceries, and then replacing the traceries you removed. I know I can't prove this to you just by writing it, and memory is a powerful thing to overcome. Maybe if Bullroarer is still up you can try it yourself there.

Look closer at the 130 vs 140 traceries. It is a fault/intention in the design at those levels. I remember this because at the time when I looked at it others told me no it would not work. When it did work they were pleasantly surprised and did the same thing. I think it only works with the initial 130 to 140 because the traceries at those levels are exactly the same stats. The only difference is the maximum level. The traceries we received at 130 max out and go inactive at 140. The newer traceries (with the exact same benefits) max out and go inactive at 150. I think the trick here is that once a tracery slot upgrades it does not go back down and between 130 and 140 the traceries are exactly the same stats. No idea why they did this design. I actually think it was designed this way on purpose to make the new level cap less painful with the new LI system. The way SSG set up the conversion may have played into this also. But please if you have someone that converted weapons at 130 and just recently hit 140 look closely unless you have a stash on enhancement runes now and it won't make a difference. A year ago we had no enhancement runes and dailes were it. This was a shortcut at the time.

Bottom line, people need to look very closely when they decide to add enhancement runes or buy new traceries. Sometimes it is better to just redo the traceries, reforge or wait a couple of levels. The new system even with the guides put out by the player base is "tricksy" and if someone is not careful it can cost a bunch of LI currency that is not necessary to spend. This system requires one to look at the items and analyze the cost of an upgrade before spending on the upgrade. People also need to be very careful whenever they are close to a level where the traceries go inactive and need to be replaced. Most times it is more cost effective to wait a couple of levels than to immediately upgrade with enhancement runes.

[DoRonRon]

Neinda - Just another player who never got how the thing works. Most don't know they've been duped or are beyond its understanding.

Has likely done the 130 LI build, has done the 131 LI upgrade just a month later and the final cap grind.

I only bought in with whatever 150 purples I had at 131 to set the ranks then popped in the free teals from the appraisal. That's a bunch of serviceable traceries some will adamantly tell you will break at 141, yet haven't tested with a lower alt, like I have. I've been focused on 150 cap since then ofc, that will setup 160 to save up for 170. Beats me why people are doing several grinds when one will do. I'll require 80k AS to cover all my chars token barters at 150 but I have that on tap already and a good year to go.

Mostly the 131's have been on tick over making sure I have enough fixed 131 enhancements for each periodic raise in item level. Not saving the 2X Teals anymore. Once I have enough for IL 290 may make a mule to save the excess, I have IL 285 covered.

No one at SSG demonstrated being adept at the ILI game, can't expect them to figure out this bizarre system all of a sudden. Throw MC at it, for free and deny/overlook it was intentional.

Sometimes I feel they are only developing the game to cater to my specific interests... A complex puzzle to solve and act on. Just not intentionally.

[CloudCastle]

I can confirm that what Neinda is talking about works. It only works on that small level range though where there is an overlap in level 13 and level 14 traceries. I didn't know about it on my 140 RK, but when I heard about it I tried it on my 140 hunter and all my traceries levels were bumped automatically to 10 levels higher, (as if I had done a reforge), yet I was already at the max reforge level. Since all I had at the time were uncommon level 131-150 traceries, I then used the scroll to remove them again, and put back my old teal 121-140 traceries. The tracery level stayed the same and I got to use teal traceries again. Eventually I was able to slowly replace my old teals with new teals, but in the meantime I didn't have to downgrade. This feature is unique to this level range of traceries (they both go to level 140) and is due to the way the new system was implemented at the time. I don't expect that we will ever see it work that way again.

[Tralfazz]

Neinda and CloudCastle: Well, how odd! I’m glad to know it now.