Blue line champ love.

[Misdirection]

Hey just wanted to post a basic thread here seeing if there was any dev knowledge of why blue line horn of champions is only a 5 second taunt and not a threat copy like most taunts in game are because they have extremely long taunt cooldowns as it is.
Also, whilst on the blue champ subject, why does the martial combatant set for blue champ (from hiddenhoard raid) have 2% block 1% parry as the 3 piece bonus when every other tank/off-tank gets 1% physical mit/2% tact mit?? With BPE in the current place it's in now, them values for block and parry aren't too great.

Just figured i'd post this to see if anyone reads this stuff and thinks the same way at times.
Thanks,
Misdirection.

[Gorikon]

Threat copy for Horn of Champions has been asked vor a couple of times. It is probably just an oversight, there are other examples of threat skills that were added later and missed the copy component initially. But this doesn't seem to be a high priotity bug.

I'd like to see:
a) add Threat copy to Horn of Champions (D'oh!)
b) reduce cooldown of Champion's Challenge to 15 seconds when in blue line
c) change blue capstone Quick with a Blade so it...
- adds a taunt component to Merciful Strike (unavoidable, and with with threat copy, please)
- increases CD by 5 or 10 seconds (because 10 seconds CD is probably too short for a melee taunt)
d) remove Threat component from True Heroics, add some kind of debuff instead (e.g. increased attack duration)

This would bring blue champ more in line to Guard and Cappy regarding taunts.

[Misdirection]

Threat copy for Horn of Champions has been asked vor a couple of times. It is probably just an oversight, there are other examples of threat skills that were added later and missed the copy component initially. But this doesn't seem to be a high priotity bug.

I'd like to see:
a) add Threat copy to Horn of Champions (D'oh!)
b) reduce cooldown of Champion's Challenge to 15 seconds when in blue line
c) change blue capstone Quick with a Blade so it...
- adds a taunt component to Merciful Strike (unavoidable, and with with threat copy, please)
- increases CD by 5 or 10 seconds (because 10 seconds CD is probably too short for a melee taunt)
d) remove Threat component from True Heroics, add some kind of debuff instead (e.g. increased attack duration)

This would bring blue champ more in line to Guard and Cappy regarding taunts.

I'm all for those adjustments, just need a tiny bit more reliability with a taunt for sure .

[Cafat]

Threat copy for Horn of Champions has been asked vor a couple of times. It is probably just an oversight, there are other examples of threat skills that were added later and missed the copy component initially. But this doesn't seem to be a high priotity bug.

I'd like to see:
a) add Threat copy to Horn of Champions (D'oh!)
b) reduce cooldown of Champion's Challenge to 15 seconds when in blue line
c) change blue capstone Quick with a Blade so it...
- adds a taunt component to Merciful Strike (unavoidable, and with with threat copy, please)
- increases CD by 5 or 10 seconds (because 10 seconds CD is probably too short for a melee taunt)
d) remove Threat component from True Heroics, add some kind of debuff instead (e.g. increased attack duration)

This would bring blue champ more in line to Guard and Cappy regarding taunts.

I'm pushing my blue champ in HH T2 currently and while don't have T3+ experience yet, the shortcomings are already coming to surface.


Threat copy

The minimum changes I would welcome are:

-reducing the CD of True Heroics to 1m for blue so it becomes a somewhat available multi threat copy + debuff
-lowering the ST taunt to 20 sec (compared to guard's 10 and capt's 15 sec, since we have a strong debuff attached to it too) or change Quick with the Blade to become force taunt and threat copy as mentioned above

Based on the current/upcoming raid design and philosophy, adding threat copy to Horn of Champions (could be provided via the talent so red/yellow can avoide it) should be considered as well, but personally I would be fine with the dmg+reflect threat generation model, if our threat scales with the dps players' and we have on demand threat copy for situations where we have to tank swap or save the day.
(Currently we are too limited in this departement.)

Regarding threat from reflects, due to the low proc chance, it only really counts on a prolonged time frame and and also have zero use in the current threat copy meta...if you are not actively tanking you fall behind and there is no way to secure a group if your TH is on CD.


QoL and others

Blade Wall has 4.2 sec CD and the debuff last for 4 sec:

-buffing the debuff to last for 6 sec would be really nice so we could reliably maintain it

Mercifull strike and it's capstone talent:

-depending on the design and philosophy it could become an ST taunt as mentioned above (in this case Champion's Challenge could even stay on 30 sec) or add some kind of utility to it


Something totally personal...would really love to see a change in visuals, where champ's bright animation effects (Sweeping Riposte for example) are consolidated to use the fiery/burning/bleed trinity.
(The iconic dev strike is also spot on, and yellow has some nice golden/iron effect too.)

[HerrDave]

I just wish Champions could use shields again

Then we could live the Boromir life again ;-;

[PartherFar]

I just wish Champions could use shields again

Then we could live the Boromir life again ;-;

I would love to have the shield back.

[Aryox]

Champs are not meant to be a main tank as a guard or even cappy. Brawlers passes champs now with the coming buffs. Champs as they are now can work pretty good for Single target tanking. Especially with their 4 set bonus from the raid. We have a lot of cds and survivals we need more consistent aggro building to be of any use other than keeping 1 mob on us.

- Make Horn of champions a taunt and not a force attack. You loose aggro so easy as it is now.
- Reduce cds on taunts and Make Riposte or merciful strike a taunt skill.
- Would like to see a whole rework on the Blue trait tree. This is most unlikely but one can dream.

Make Champs Great Again!

[Cafat]

Champs are not meant to be a main tank as a guard or even cappy. Brawlers passes champs now with the coming buffs. Champs as they are now can work pretty good for Single target tanking. Especially with their 4 set bonus from the raid. We have a lot of cds and survivals we need more consistent aggro building to be of any use other than keeping 1 mob on us.

- Make Horn of champions a taunt and not a force attack. You loose aggro so easy as it is now.
- Reduce cds on taunts and Make Riposte or merciful strike a taunt skill.
- Would like to see a whole rework on the Blue trait tree. This is most unlikely but one can dream.

Make Champs Great Again!

I've only done HH T2 full and T3 B1 so far as blue champ.

Aggro was only an issue when I had to constantly swap with other tank between boss and adds.

Initial aggro on a fresh group of adds seemed less of an issue, however s* can hit the fan when true heroics is on CD and you need to swap adds or save the day.

Not sure if HoC really needs to be a threat copy, or 1 min TH is enough.

I dont think that we need a full redesign. A bit more controll over threat copy would help though.

I also don't really see tanking as MT and OT any more, you either tank or not. Some tanks are better at handling adds, some more in line with boss x or y dmg pattern, some can kite better, some gives more support.

As far as I know, on higher tiers ppl use 3 tanks any way so its more about complementing each other and planning the fight, who does what and when.

But again, I've only experienced T2 full and T3 B1.

@Aryox what is you tanking experience and on which tier and boss u had problems, and how do you do that fight? I'm just curious what other players are experiencing. Not much champions out there to exchange info about tanking.

[Strider5548]

Initial aggro on a fresh group of adds seemed less of an issue, however s* can hit the fan when true heroics is on CD and you need to swap adds or save the day.

Making horn a threat copy in blue line would solve this pretty easily...There are certainly many other things that could be done as well (i.e. adding ST taunt to merciful strike), but horn fix seems like the simplest and most effective solution to me.

[Arabani]

I would love to have the shield back.

Absolutely, please let champions use shields again. And make Heavy shield a blue line bonus trait. The way it was before. Blue champion lacks two things-agro and survivability. A shield would help no doubt.

P.S. And give Minstrels medium armor back. Or at least +10% mitigation cap increase from traits. We need it.

[Thorandril]

Shields were boring and slow, and counter to the idea of a dps/tank hybrid. We already get the -10% incoming damage stat that heavy shields grant anyways so anything else is pointless stat fluffing.

Right now I think we're in a solid place with a few sole exceptions. Overall attack speed is a bit too slow and gameplay feels sort of sluggish. Survivability-wise we are great. I'd really just like to see flurry given back to us as base kit and the bonus it grants as a secondary just modify based on whatever line you are in. As it stands it remains boring and uninspired that it is locked behind yellow with a proc, and a secondary bonus that hasn't scaled since lvl 85