A Look at LOTRO's 2023

[MadeofLions]

This particualr aspect of the crafting system has been working absolutely fine for 15 years. Literally noone ever asked for this change.

This is a good example of the different perspectives people can have on a single feature of the game, because I've seen people complaining about the Vocation combinations ever since they were first revealed, and every single year since 2007. If I had to point at a single unpopular feature, it might be requiring people to drop from group to do a solo instance... but if I had to point at two, it might be the Vocation combinations.

MoL

[istvana]

I have been happy with the crafting system as is. But I agree some people have complained about having to take crafts only in pre-set combinations ever since the start. What percentage of players this represents is debatable and it wouldn't have been on my list of the top 10 things people gripe about but MoL may well be right about that too.

Having to grind class skill deeds to get trait points seemed to generate a lot more complaint - and now it is gone - hooray - so time to work on other things.

[Elmagor]

I do not think that breaking Vocation System is a good idea, it brings a lot of issues (instruments being only one of them). Once again, do not try to fix what is not broken. This particualr aspect of the crafting system has been working absolutely fine for 15 years. Literally noone ever asked for this change. Do not do unneeded and even useless work. Fix the crafting itself firsts, make it relevant and desirable. Make gold relevant and economics actually working, then care about additional options, lilke profession combinations at one's will.

P.S. The new class in openly stated in the letter -Corsair.

Some vocations very weird and don't make people who choice them very happy, like weaponsmith without Prospector, or Cook without Farmer, or Woodworker without Forester. Of course people can level them all, but that force them create other characters and send resources almost every day back and forth.

[RiverBirch]

I always like having more choice. So I can stick with the existing vocations, or I can choose to create my own combination. It seems like there would be no losers with this change

[Edelhardt]

That's as modern of a new player experience as you can get. Must have been fun.

I forgot to mention Wildwood. I spent a lot of time in there and gained several levels.

Yes, it was a lot of fun, a brand new experience after having done the original route to level 50 more times than I care to remember. I can heartily recommend it to anyone who wants to roll and level a new character.

And if you don't fancy the old Moria/Lorien/Eregion etc experience after that, there are always Valar packages you can buy. But an alternative route there would also be very welcome. I doubt though that the South Gondor/Umbar region will allow for that. They are clearly intending that for level 140+ and I can see why (and my main needs another workout as well lol). But there are still other voids in the ME map that might offer some opportunities.

[Skyfoot_A]

Yes, it will be looked at. No, there are no plans to address Mounted Combat directly.

No disrespect, but this is one of those times when you probably were better off not even answering the question.

If there are no plans to fix it, why even tease that you are going to "look at it". Be clear, be straight forward and no corporate double speak, please.

If it's one thing I could change about how you folks communicate with the player base it would be that^^.

[Elmagor]

No disrespect, but this is one of those times when you probably were better off not even answering the question.

If there are no plans to fix it, why even tease that you are going to "look at it". Be clear, be straight forward and no corporate double speak, please.

If it's one thing I could change about how you folks communicate with the player base it would be that^^.

I like previous version of that answer more. "Yes, we can spend time and revamp mounted combat, but after we spend time and resources for it, most players still hate mounted combat"

IMHO, they have 3 fatal mistakes with mounted combat, and I don't understand how they can fix all of them in same time. 1)They make fast hard to control mounts on ancient server, so slow working server don't allow you love them on 100%. 2)Mounted combat skills come from your skill sets, so melee classes stay melee on warsteeds. From what I seen, most rdd players (LM, hunter, RK, mini) love mounted combat, and close combat players hate it. 3)Mounted combat skills designed such way so you can kill anything when you stay in distance, it's hard to create landscape outside of Rohan (Rohan have huge, broad plains, other locations have forest/lava/rocks/rivers) and keep in mind what players can use 100+ level warsteeds on them

[TesalionLortus]

I like previous version of that answer more. "Yes, we can spend time and revamp mounted combat, but after we spend time and resources for it, most players still hate mounted combat"

If they actually fixed it, as in its terrible movements/lag it causes perhaps, would people still hate it though? In any case, I certainly hope they can bring at least some of it back for Rhun and Harad, at the very least in Gondor's scope, where it was still used, albeit not such a main deal. It's just immersive to have these mounted enemies where it makes sense, and not all on foot forever and ever. Roaming, patrolling, . Sometime, which did happen back in Rohan/Gondor. In other words more movement, the enemies just standing there in the fields is a bit old, and it would look terribly in these men lands, of Rhun and Harad. (while orcs and brigands invading Eriador are somehow more tolerable)

[Elmagor]

If they actually fixed it, as in its terrible movements/lag it causes perhaps, would people still hate it though? In any case, I certainly hope they can bring at least some of it back for Rhun and Harad, at the very least in Gondor's scope, where it was still used, albeit not such a main deal. It's just immersive to have these mounted enemies where it makes sense, and not all on foot forever and ever. Roaming, patrolling, . Sometime, which did happen back in Rohan/Gondor. In other words more movement, the enemies just standing there in the fields is a bit old, and it would look terribly in these men lands, of Rhun and Harad. (while orcs and brigands invading Eriador are somehow more tolerable)

I can use my expeirence as example. Yes, even when spend time and resources and revamp or buff warsteeds, I still hate them on most classes. I use it on guardian, beorning, captain and even without lags warsteed wasn't fun. Because it's melee wasteed, they don't have enough rdd damage and I can't keep distance. It's fun for LM, but with LM, mini, rk and hunter I can kill anything without using warsteed and don't need them.

Rhun and Harad... warsteed in desert? Or camel? Rohan have not only place where you can use warsteed for fun, but also storyline with that and monsters what created specific for warsteeds.

[Belnavar]

This is a good example of the different perspectives people can have on a single feature of the game, because I've seen people complaining about the Vocation combinations ever since they were first revealed, and every single year since 2007. If I had to point at a single unpopular feature, it might be requiring people to drop from group to do a solo instance... but if I had to point at two, it might be the Vocation combinations.

MoL

I've seen the same. And while I like being a "Tinker" on my main, I have zero use for a Cook who isn't also a Farmer (that's another alt), but I would love to be able to gather wood or scholar nodes instead. In fact, I'd like to have all three gathering professions and jeweller together, if more than 3 options were allowed (even if it took more xp/resources to level a profession beyond the first three). Doing resource instances would be more fun and engaging for me then.

-Bel

[TesalionLortus]

Rhun and Harad... warsteed in desert? Or camel? Rohan have not only place where you can use warsteed for fun, but also storyline with that and monsters what created specific for warsteeds.

You must have missed story bits where the cavalries of Rhun and Harad were present at Pelennor. It's not just Rohan who uses horses in Middle-earth or cultivates them for war. Horses are used in the deserts too (well, more arid exotic/oasis places anyway, going far into lone desert isn't a good idea). Patrolling bandits on horses in an arid canyon somewhere near their hideout or Rhun scouting parties on some planes near/in Rhun are perfectly reasonable and expected things, unless you want to tell me everyone just goes on foot everywhere and man cavalryman don't exist (I would agree they don't exist for brigands, that they don't exist for Corsairs, that they don't exist for Dunlendings and Hillmen and the Angmarim and Mordorrim, I would agree they don't exist for orcs, other than occasional mounted goblins and such, but that's not as common, but... soon we'll be way past that point which why I wanna see mounted people and enemies, it's just *right*).

And for everyone who dislikes them, there are other who are fine with them, so to each their own. Also if they would bring them back, I'm pretty sure they would make mounted a bit more difficult maybe - or if they didn't, and you can still kill them on foot, then do it? No one is telling you you can't? So I don't understand that attitude that they should never ever be used. You just want everything to feel same same same and boring. (not to mention stupid, if there are no Rhun and Harad cavalrymen and mounted guys anywhere to be find) For me more variety = more fun, because not everything feels the same. You can just opt out from killing those on mounted, if you prefer to shoot at them. Me, as a champion, I do like an idea of having to roam for a bit and peruse those, rather than have them on a silver plate, and no, I can't do these on foot either, because then I can't easily reach them and the combat turns into an unimmersive unfun with me just walking around like a fool and trying to kill them when they bother to charge or when they get into water and dismount. Sometimes the feeling of combat is immersion too (not just efficiency), and these are clearly designed for roaming which is when it feels good.

[Elmagor]

You must have missed story bits where the cavalries of Rhun and Harad were present at Pelennor. It's not just Rohan who uses horses in Middle-earth or cultivates them for war. Horses are used in the deserts too (well, more arid exotic/oasis places anyway, going far into lone desert isn't a good idea). Patrolling bandits on horses in an arid canyon somewhere near their hideout or Rhun scouting parties on some planes near/in Rhun are perfectly reasonable and expected things, unless you want to tell me everyone just goes on foot everywhere and man cavalryman don't exist (I would agree they don't exist for brigands, that they don't exist for Corsairs, that they don't exist for Dunlendings and Hillmen and the Angmarim and Mordorrim, I would agree they don't exist for orcs, other than occasional mounted goblins and such, but that's not as common, but... soon we'll be way past that point which why I wanna see mounted people and enemies, it's just *right*).

And for everyone who dislikes them, there are other who are fine with them, so to each their own. Also if they would bring them back, I'm pretty sure they would make mounted a bit more difficult maybe - or if they didn't, and you can still kill them on foot, then do it? No one is telling you you can't? So I don't understand that attitude that they should never ever be used. You just want everything to feel same same same and boring. (not to mention stupid, if there are no Rhun and Harad cavalrymen and mounted guys anywhere to be find) For me more variety = more fun, because not everything feels the same. You can just opt out from killing those on mounted, if you prefer to shoot at them. Me, as a champion, I do like an idea of having to roam for a bit and peruse those, rather than have them on a silver plate, and no, I can't do these on foot either, because then I can't easily reach them and the combat turns into an unimmersive unfun with me just walking around like a fool and trying to kill them when they bother to charge or when they get into water and dismount. Sometimes the feeling of combat is immersion too (not just efficiency), and these are clearly designed for roaming which is when it feels good.

I remember it, BUT how that sell Harad, like warsteeds sell Rohan for us? We don't know much about Harad history. Even with Umbar, first things what comes to mind to people... something like corsars, Johnny Depp and other Hollywood things, but Tolkien's Umbar wasn't something like that

[TesalionLortus]

I remember it, BUT how that sell Harad, like warsteeds sell Rohan for us? We don't know much about Harad history.

It's a basic common sense, they're not supposed to sell Harad to you and be the main selling point of it like they were of Rohan's, they're just supposed to be at least somehow visible part of it, so it's a believable high civilization culture - it's a no brainer these civilizations use horses and for Iluvatar's sake you even have Wainriders for Easterling history or Theoden's charge against the Serpent King cavalrymen. Plus, as I said, as far as the game's canon goes through mobs, horses are already a legit part of their cultures, with many varieties of riders.

[gildhur]

P.S. The new class in openly stated in the letter -Corsair.

No, it isn't. The word "Corsair" is only used once in the entire letter: "There was an overwhelming consensus that we wanted to head south to less traveled shores. Across the salty sea, beyond the Bay of Belfalas to the shore of the Corsair Kings, Umbar." The new class isn't even mentioned in the letter at all, only in the roadmap graphic at the top. Where did you get this idea?

[Elmagor]

It's a basic common sense, they're not supposed to sell Harad to you and be the main selling point of it like they were of Rohan's, they're just supposed to be at least somehow visible part of it, so it's a believable high civilization culture - it's a no brainer these civilizations use horses and for Iluvatar's sake you even have Wainriders for Easterling history or Theoden's charge against the Serpent King cavalrymen. Plus, as I said, as far as the game's canon goes through mobs, horses are already a legit part of their cultures, with many varieties of riders.

Wainriders from Rhun, not from Umbar or Harad. Of course they use horses, but I don't consider that as motivation to bring warsteeds back to life in Harad

[TesalionLortus]

Of course they use horses, but I don't consider that as motivation to bring warsteeds back to life in Harad

Well then, if they use them, I wanna see it and feel like they really use them, otherwise my immersion will suffer terribly, like I'm being cheated, and like they're being civilization no different from a common Dunlending village. I think that good reason enough to have some mounted enemies back.

[Belnavar]

No, it isn't. The word "Corsair" is only used once in the entire letter: "There was an overwhelming consensus that we wanted to head south to less traveled shores. Across the salty sea, beyond the Bay of Belfalas to the shore of the Corsair Kings, Umbar." The new class isn't even mentioned in the letter at all, only in the roadmap graphic at the top. Where did you get this idea?

Severlin hinted that there are clues in the letter as to what the new class is, which is why many are speculating on something like Corsair or Swashbuckler.

-Bel

[gildhur]

Severlin hinted that there are clues in the letter as to what the new class is, which is why many are speculating on something like Corsair or Swashbuckler.

Entirely possible. But the person I was responding to said it was "openly stated." It literally isn't.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

After-battle Gondor will almost certainly be a separate layer on top of the existing Gondor regions, like After-battle MT is. Assuming Umbar will also be post-War, it should logically connect to the After-battle Gondor region(s), possibly even Midsummer MT depending on how far in the timeline they place it.

Most likely, I was also wondering if they were going to Expand on after the Battle Maps (those are connected to the over all Mordor map and that map doesn't extend south) or create an entire new updated gondor map separated from everything else (just like after battle is), I guess will wait and see were the new Gondor will be.

[Bromlin]

I do not think that breaking Vocation System is a good idea, it brings a lot of issues (instruments being only one of them). Once again, do not try to fix what is not broken. This particualr aspect of the crafting system has been working absolutely fine for 15 years. Literally noone ever asked for this change. Do not do unneeded and even useless work. Fix the crafting itself firsts, make it relevant and desirable. Make gold relevant and economics actually working, then care about additional options, lilke profession combinations at one's will.

This is simply not true. The vocation system doesn't make sense in so many ways, it's an annoyance to me and many other players ever since and that has been discussed regularly in this forum. The removal of the vocation limitations is no. 1 on my wishlist for changes, so I'm absolutely delighted we'll get rid of it soon. I'll never understand why people, who actually don't care about certain aspects of the game, still complain when there are changes being made in these very aspects they don't care about anyway.

I always like having more choice. So I can stick with the existing vocations, or I can choose to create my own combination. It seems like there would be no losers with this change

This!

[k40rne]

IMHO it will be new creep class

Doubt it, it'll be a (good) Corsair type.

[k40rne]

Rest assured, we will have more details to come on what the update includes as we get closer to its release.

This implies it will contain Southgard or parts of Harondor. that lead down towards Harad. In fact i'm pretty sure you talked about this when you said how good the zone you were reworking looks now (presumably that was South Ithilien) in one of your casual strolls.

It seems the new class will be a Corsair, since Severlin told us the Roadmap hints at the class, there can only be that.

I'm really excited you guys are taking a serious look at personal watercraft for the future.

Also will be great to finally see a lot more of Gondor in the day, hopefully you guys decide to clean up Dol Amroth too, so it can finally be the Jewel in the Crown Tolkien had envisioned.

I figured it had to be Umbar, you probably anticipated as I did that the Amazon series would have went there, and this also gives us a chance to play out the Thorongil adventures now.

For the crafting, a few of those professions aren't really crafting. Will you remove Prospector & Forester from options and give it as standard, then you pick 3 actual professions?

And you use the term biomes, not just biome, so presumably we will get some jungle as well as desert/arid type landscapes.

[k40rne]

I can use my expeirence as example. Yes, even when spend time and resources and revamp or buff warsteeds, I still hate them on most classes. I use it on guardian, beorning, captain and even without lags warsteed wasn't fun. Because it's melee wasteed, they don't have enough rdd damage and I can't keep distance. It's fun for LM, but with LM, mini, rk and hunter I can kill anything without using warsteed and don't need them.

Rhun and Harad... warsteed in desert? Or camel? Rohan have not only place where you can use warsteed for fun, but also storyline with that and monsters what created specific for warsteeds.

I found all classes mounted combat fun (except maybe Burglar because such tiny range), it is just more challenging to target, that's all, but it should be that way unless they created one boring set of universal mounted range skills.

I seriously hope they they incorporate it again for such new vast landmasses, since they have the technology to create large ones fairly easily now, as they did Cardolan.

hopefully with the new Gondor, Harad & at some point Dorwinian, Rhun, Khand, Nurn etc.

[Elmagor]

Most likely, I was also wondering if they were going to Expand on after the Battle Maps (those are connected to the over all Mordor map and that map doesn't extend south) or create an entire new updated gondor map separated from everything else (just like after battle is), I guess will wait and see were the new Gondor will be.

We have portal on bridge in Ithilien, he can lead us to After-war content and to the South Gondor

[TesalionLortus]

Doubt it, it'll be a (good) Corsair type.

How is a Corsair who is called a Corsair to be even considered a good guy? Surely the name would need to be different... If they're really doing a "Corsair" class named as such then they might as well give us a "good" Goblin, Orc, Uruk and Troll Like, Corsairs are supposed to be slavers and plunderers, not even Jajax is to be considered a "good" guy here