Developer's Diary – Warden Updates from OnnMacMahal

[OnnMacMahal]

Are we getting any new skills to manage the order of gambit builders on the bar? It would make things a lot more dynamic. For example imagine a skill that...

if you have an odd gambit removes your middle builder: for example changing Brink of Victory into Goad or Dark Before the Dawn into Mighty Blow
or the opposite, an even gambit where your next builder goes into the center: for example changing Goad into Brink and Mighty Blow into Dark Before the Dawn
or inverts your current gambit completely: for example turning Surety of Death into Dance of War to be either used or built up further into Conviction
or a pseudo-potency that saves 2 builders rather than a skill: for example you have First Spear then you use this skill and it 'saves' these, you add another Fist to use Piercing Strike, then you use the new skill and have First Spear again which you can turn into Spear of Virtue or whatever.

Obviously these new skills would need to be Immediate to work smoothly, I'd really like something like this added to the Warden to make it even more complex at the highest levels making it really possible to eke out everything out of Masteries even the less used ones. It would also be nice if you could remove or reduce the CDs on Quick Recovery and Recovery.

This is a really delightfully fun idea, but unfortunately I don't believe a mechanic of this nature is technically possible. It's not trivially easy to modify your active gambit builders as suggested here. That said, the warden ought to still be a very dynamic and complex class. Like building gambits out of only three builders, you should be rewarded for thinking deeply about how to optimize your warden gameplay, relying on clear, intelligible principles to execute complex maneuvers.

And yes, cooldowns for both Recovery and Quick Recovery will be reduced.

[OnnMacMahal]

Rapid Techniques seems pointless since its missing point of what STM offered. It was ability to instantly react mid rotation with whatever gambit you needed to, increasing skill cap of the class despite being flawed with RNG. This CD would only partialy offer that since there is plenty of gambits you could build instantly and plenty you cant, while it would still focus on mastery builder mastery gameplay which is already gonna be heavly enforced via strong foundations trait. It would be much better if CD was ~30s and it offered old STM effect with maybe 2-3s duration. Which would let us react instantly with gambits.
If that is not the case then it is better to just remove rapid techniques since it devalues from masteries use while not offering gambit reactivity that STM (or should i say sustained masteries no CD) offers.

I don't think the ability to freely/immediately cast any gambit for a period is a central part of keeping the warden skill cap high.

Can you explain what you mean by Rapid Technique devaluing masteries? I'm not sure I understand this comment (and especially how it differs from the StM effect.

[OnnMacMahal]

1. With no yellow spec, and red spec having minus healing, why would i use 21 line in red?

You'll still have self-heals in red, but they'll be weaker than those of a tank warden is all.

2. Rumour has it NS is going for red. Will we see alternative for red?

There's no plan to change NS at this time.

3. We are missing utility like otger tanks (run speed, AoE stun, buffs) will we see these come?

See Javelins and Assailment on post two at the beginning of this thread. In general, utility effects will be on gambit skills now, and your run speed is tied into Ambush.

4. Will range dps traits stay? I dont want to sit in range for top dps, but its a nice option when we need it.

Yes, there will be several ranged-specific traits/buffs.

[Mikuma]

Whether people agree or disagree with all the changes, I can say that with of all the interactivity while addressing concerns on the forum is astounding and greatly appreciated. I don't recall this level of transparency in the longest time and goes a long ways in building trust and community. I'm looking forwards to seeing how the changes play out once released on BR.

[OnnMacMahal]

Incoming damage is just too high!

The problem with how wardens tank has everything to do with its passive mitigations being too low and no reactionary cooldowns ON PAR with juggernaut, pledge, ward.

We dont have as many or as useful of cooldowns either. We have never surrender, a silly blue capstone (which you are addressing), and that's it.


Most of our mitigations is tied up in gambits and defiant challenge. If any mitigations are tied up in gambits they should be EXTRA like guardian fortification, not our base mitigations.

And with everything up you are STILL BELOW a guardian or cappy in mitigations.

We have self heals that will EVENTUALLY heal us (only if the self heals critical). Guardian has an immediate 700k(last time I played) catch a breath.

Spike damage is what keeps wardens below other options as tank. And it really is that simple.

I hear your concerns. There should not be a vast mitigation gap between tanks, but you should also have self-healing capability that far outstrips what a Guardian has access to. If Bullroarer opens and the HPS you provide yourself is still below what a Guardian can provide for themselves, that's an issue.

As an aside, you will also be gaining a small (though not insignificant) Incoming Damage reduction from Shield gambit buffs.

And yes, your direct damage mitigation is mostly attached to FtFP and Restorative Shieldwork. They may not be strong enough, or two skills may just be too few. It's not out of line with most other tanks though, so I'm not too worried in that regard. I'll be keeping an eye on overall values during Bullroarer in any case.

[OnnMacMahal]

If battle prep isn't going away maybe we could remove the long animation? It's annoying to have to hit the skill but I think it would be a lot better if the animation wasn't so long.

The plan is to shorten its animation a bit. As a note, this is one of the errant animations which was actually being sped up or slowed down with your movement speed, so using it with Forced March on has been much faster than not. Going forward, it will be unaffected by movement speed, but should be faster than it was before (faster than with forced march on).

[OnnMacMahal]

Thanks for your work on the warden class.

There is another big problem with wardens (and champions) that is not mentioned here: Stats.

Hunter's, which are a ranged class, will get 1 tactical mitigation for each point of vitality they have, but both wardens and champions, both classes that have to be close to enemies, do not. This results in the effect that Hunters have it much easier to cap their mitigations while still being able to cap their offensive stats - a situations both wardens and champions can only dream of. They have to sacrifice their offensive to have a chance at surviving, while the hunters, that have range to their advantage can have both without sacrifices...

I hope there are some changes planned in that regard .. at least give wardens and champions also one tactical mitigation per vitality. For even better balancing, removing the tactical mitigation bonus from the hunters on top of it would have an even better effect on game balance.

There might be changes to stats in the future, but that would have to be part of a broader update to all classes, so your warden stat derivations will not be changing with U35.

[OnnMacMahal]

Are there any plans to give wardens a bonus for using spears?
Right now, many people use sword because of the racial bonus.
Would be nice to see a +5% spear damage for the warden class or something like that.

At the moment, no significant change is planned. However, the spear's inherent bleed DoT will pulse every 3 seconds (rather than every 5 seconds) which will increase its overall DPS slightly.

[OnnMacMahal]

The systemic issues that most affect the warden are the following:
- Block, Parry, and Evade have been repeatedly nerfed and the rating-to-percentage conversion offers really bad value.
- Likewise, Outgoing Healing offers really bad value, and wardens don't get any from their main stats. Warden healing is a bit underwhelming in general.
- Warden DPS rotations are very monotonous and quite inflexible, apart from Seize the Moment.
- It's not viable to cover multiple roles in the same fight, even to a very limited extent. For example, it's not worth speccing or gearing to do even a little DPS on a tank, and it's not worth holding even a single add on a DPS.
- The warden is a slow class by design, but it doesn't have adequate tools to be successfully slow, if you will. For example, wardens were terrible at interrupting for the longest time, and the tool they got was a bog-standard immediate interrupt on a separate skill, instead of, say, an interrupt-over-time on Wall of Steel.
- Trait trees are badly designed and don't allow for many different builds. Warden trait trees are especially badly designed. Nearly all the trait ranks in red line are boring increases to damage.

I'm not suggesting that wardens should be able to fill different roles within the same fight, but within your chosen role you should be able to more flexibly react to moment-to-moment changes in a fight.

Current State Overview

So what headwinds are wardens currently facing?

Arguably the biggest issue facing wardens is a lack of defensive cooldown abilities for Determination wardens.

Yes, it is. But you don't say much about it. Nothing specific at all, in fact. We need details, or we can't provide useful feedback.

Also: No, For the Free Peoples is not a "strong effect". As cooldowns go, it's decidedly poor. So is Never Surrender, actually. NS gets mentioned a lot because it's unusual, not because it's strong; it works very well against a few very specific effects, and it can occasionally save a raid, but it's nowhere near the level of Juggernaut, or Last Stand, or Thickened Hide, or any of the brawler stuff.

I've updated the second post with an outline of the new tanking cooldown skills. They don't have all the specific values, but should give you an idea of how they'll add to your tanking kit. All the specific numbers will be available on Bullroarer soon.

Regarding 'For the Free Peoples' I've repeatedly heard this sentiment from players. I'm not sure if folks simply haven't looked at it in a while, or maybe it's just been written off because it requires you to laboriously use a lot of regular builders to tier up it's effect. In any case, it is unquestionably a strong effect when tiered up. And in this update, it's being changed so that you don't need to tier it up at all; it will immediately consume your AT to grant you and your fellowship Incoming Damage Reduction.

Gambit chains are an underutilized tool.

No, they're really not. Gambit chains are stupid. You don't ever want to use gambits from shortest to longest, and you shouldn't encourage that. It runs counter to the whole concept of gambits.

The idea of gambits is that your biggest gambits are highly efficient (in terms of effect over cast time, including build time (but not effect time)), and your smaller gambits in the same class are progressively less efficient.

If you want to do a bit of damage, you can do so very efficiently--hit three big DPS gambits and you're done. That leaves you with 20+ seconds of spare time in you rotation; you can use that time to heal, or move, or debuff, or whatever. But if you don't want to do any of that, if you want to do a lot of damage, you can fill that time with more DPS gambits. Since your bleeds don't stack, you don't get to use those highly efficient gambits again (if you could, you would have too much DPS). You have to use smaller gambits, instead. So you go down the list, casting weaker and weaker gambits, until you're reduced to Precise Blow or whatever. (In practice, of course, people work out the smallest gambit they're going to get to, then order their gambits for efficient mastery use, which isn't necessarily largest-to-smallest.)

Because of this natural progression of gambits, wardens are most efficient when combining different types of gambits--a few big healing gambits for very efficient healing, a few big damage gambits for very efficient damage/aggro, and so on (this was the basis of warden solo performance, as well--this, old DC, and 100% partial BPEs). In theory, anyway. In practice, healing gambits on DPS wardens are so weak you might as well not bother, and vice versa for tank wardens. That is something that could do with a change, but not through gambit chains. Gambit chains suck.

(Now, if you want to re-tool gambit chains into a "set bonus" for using different gambits in the same class in a short amount of time, that could be a thing. But ordering them from small to large is stupid.)

I'm sorry you feel this way. While I agree that the optimal way to play the class right now is to use gambits large-to-small, that doesn't change the fact that gambit chains in abstract are literally designed to push you in the opposite direction. If it's never optimal to use some of your 2-length gambits, then why have them at all? I understand that they have little value right now, but that doesn't mean that they ought to have little value in principle. Even with gambit chains, if you only have time to use a single gambit, you're still better off using a 4- or 5-length gambit. It's a balance.

For damage-oriented wardens, Seize the Moment looms too large over all other class mechanics [...]

I agree. It's quite fun, though, and about the only thing that breaks the deterministic warden DPS rotations. There is no need to change Seize the Moment, unless you have a really fun substitute ready. Strong Foundations does not sound that fun. It sounds like it will, in practice, work out to a pretty generic mastery cooldown reduction, which will sometimes line up well with what you want to do, and sometimes not. *Shrug*.

For what it's worth, Recklessness (the skill) isn't fun either. It's boring.

I don't disagree that Seize the Moment is fun. Having the ability to repeatedly cast an AoE morale-tap that deals a million damage to every mob in front of you would probably be fun too, but it would also be unhealthy for the design of the class and the balance between classes. I do disagree with the statement that StM is the only thing which breaks up the deterministic warden gameplay. It's only truly deterministic if you're doing a straight damage parse on a morale sponge, or running through the same short sequence repeatdely (say, switching to the next-upcoming RAT to apply Marked/Diminished and your strongest DoTs). There are plenty of situations, even for the current warden, where your rotation is not entirely deterministic, but even in those cases, StM mostly serves to 'reset' your fixed rotation to a certain point, or simply allow you to get through part of it faster (so some of your bleeds benefit from effects like Momentum when they wouldn't be able to without a StM proc).

Damage-dealing wardens also have a distinct lack of instant damage.

Yes, they do. We should have appropriately massive long-term damage to compensate (which we don't), not a ####ty version of burst damage so that we can pretend to play the burst damage game while the champions/burglars/hunters smile condescendingly. It's a damage-over-time class. The one thing it's not supposed to have is instant damage. It's supposed to have so much damage over time that you'll bring a warden to a fight even if you lose burst, just because you gain so much damage in the long run.

I'm not sure why you feel this is how the class should be. Just because skills like Combination Strike do meaningless damage right now does not mean that it shouldn't do meaningful damage. It is possible for a skill to have decent immediate damage while still dealing less overall DPS in the long run when compared to a DoT skill. Sometimes you want to run an instance with a large number of mobs that don't survive for very long. Why should a warden be shut out of joining groups running that instance?

Wardens specializing in Recklessness should still be versatile damage dealers with a wide range of gambits for dealing with different situations. In a pinch, offensive wardens should be able to line up some skills and gambits to deal meaningful instant damage during encounters. While damage-over-time effects should still be your most reliable and consistent damage, we don’t want wardens to feel completely shut out in encounters with a greater emphasis on groups of mobs that have smaller morale pools.

No. You misunderstand the class. Wardens are not versatile and should not be versatile. Wardens do one damn thing, and it's indiscriminately delivering lots of damage while indiscriminately taking (healing) a lot of damage. It's unwieldly, slow, late damage/healing, but there is lots of it. Well, should be lots of it. Ought to be. We'd like it to be. Can we finally get our "lots"?

It's worth noting that you've consistently nerfed and removed versatility in the game. It's now virtually impossible to cover multiple roles with the same build or to change builds in combat. Consequently, covering multiple roles in the same fight, even to a limited extent, is not really done anymore. Lore-masters come closest to being versatile, with all their different tricks. Wardens are nothing like lore-masters.

Can you tell me why you think wardens should not be versatile? the whole class revolves around three basic skills being used to create sequences which can deal damage, apply bleeds, hit single-targets or multiple, heal you, provide you with defensive bonuses, or steal morale from enemies. That's not versatile? Versatility doesn't necessarily mean you should be able to quickly fill in the role of a main tank when you're traited and itemized for damage (or vice versa) but you can have flexibility within your given role in order to deal with different gameplay circumstances.

Gambit effects should be cleaned up a little bit across the board. This will be covered in greater detail later on, but the general principle is that there are a lot of different gambits, so no individual gambit needs to have more than one or two effects.

That doesn't follow, but in practice, I don't think you need to do any work here.

Gambits already do only one thing you care about, and some do nothing (Combination Strike), or have a beneficial secondary effect (Desolation). Only Persevere/Safeguard really have two noticable effects, but those effects are individually pretty weak.

Different gambit classes are already associated with specific effects. It's not on the level of spear/shield/fist gambits, because those classifications are mostly meaningless (wardens have more than three kinds of gambits), but SP-SH interrupts, SP-SH-FI bleeds, SH-SP heals/blocks, and so on.

Also: spear gambits don't naturally make sense for instant damage at all. Spear gambits have the lowest instant damage of all--it's fist gambits that have significant up-front damage. Spears have a bleed as a weapon passive, for crying out loud!

Spear-bleed aside, why should fist gambits have both better instant damage and DoT damage? I apologize, but Surety of Death is being knocked down a peg off its pedestal. A single gambit should not have your best initial damage and one of your best DoTs while being AoE. Why use any other gambits? You'll now have some gambit sequences focused on initial damage, others focused on DoT effects. Some sequences single-target, others AoE. That's what I mean by gambits having one (maybe two) effects. We don't want a single (or even a small few) gambits carrying all of your output value. Different gambits should be useful for different purposes and different contexts, and balanced accordingly.

Finally, a note about wardens leveling up for the first time. We’re planning to reinstate the leveling paradigm for wardens in which you start off with access to only 2-length gambits, later unlocking 3-length, then 4-length, then 5-length gambits. This will have no impact on any warden already over level 50, but will hopefully help make learning the class a little more manageable for those stepping into it with little prior knowledge of the class or specific gambits.

I don't think this works at all. Early wardens are easy to play because they have a one-size-fits-all solution to combat: Surety > Restoration. And since these are long gambits, you either have to be really really slow, or you learn to use masteries. But you only have to use the two masteries that are obviously relevant to Surety, and the two that are obviously relevant to Restoration, which is a nice easy starter.

What we do need is a better class tutorial. For example, something that explains the paragraph above. But then all LOTRO classes have terrible tutorials (insofar the game contains tutorials at all), and I haven't seen any efforts towards improving those at all.

I fundamentally disagree that leveling wardens should be expected to rely almost entirely on two gambits. Why have all the other ones, if two skills are all you need to get by in every circumstance? When the class was released with Mines of Moria, you earned increasingly-long gambits over time, reinforcing the idea that your basic building blocks are expanding in potential and complexity. I think that part of the learning process has been lost over time, and is frankly confusing to players who are new to the class.

Advanced Technique
Several new Warden skills will be ‘normal’ skills bound by cooldowns, rather than gambit skills requiring builders. These skills will have short, strong effects and moderate cooldown times. However, rather than being freely available at full strength, their potency will be driven by Advanced Technique. Each skill will require at least one Advanced Technique, consume all of your Advanced Technique when used, and will become stronger with each additional Advanced Technique consumed when the skill fires.

And how will you earn Advanced Technique? You’ll receive one count every time you complete a gambit chain, up to three maximum, until they are either consumed by a skill or you leave combat.

This sounds like a nightmare. Gambit chains are stupid. Nearly all two-icon gambits are useless. You'd be deliberately using gambits you don't need just to earn Cooldown Points so you can survive what guardians and brawlers can already survive for free.

Again, you're conflating skills and gambits right now, rather than thinking about what skills and gambits could be. In practice, the new gambit chains are much, much easier to complete than existing gambit chains, so this is really only a soft check on your ability to chain cooldown skills in rapid succession with one another.

[OnnMacMahal]

Can you speak to effect and buff consolidation?

Mostly this means getting rid of all the small, stacking buffs and debuffs: those applied by builders and the 10% proc ones applied by gambits depending on your specialization.

Will it require fewer gambits for me to maintain my defensive buffs, and can you show us where those buffs have moved or changed?

Defensive buffs, at least the 'standard' ones with 100% uptime will all be attached to Shield gambits now. Offensive buffs will more or less be limited to Adroit & Warden's Triumph. Honorable mention for various debuffs (Marked, Diminished, Battering Strikes, Suppression, No Respite) which are applied to enemies via gambits of varying types.

Can we see the Advanced Technique spenders?

I updated the second post in this thread with info about three tanking cooldown skills. More detail about other spenders will be up soon.

Can we see the new or changed gambit animations?

Not right now, unfortunately. The goal isn't anything radical, but a tune up that brings longer skill execution times down to be more consistent with other skill animations.

Can we see the new or changed traceries?

Not quite yet, but soon!

What group support has been added to Determination? Aside from Warden's survivability troubles, we also can't offer the same group support that other tanks have.

Right now, your main cooldown support is in FtFP, but tanking wardens will also be able to support the group through mob debuffs.

[thymos]

And yes, cooldowns for both Recovery and Quick Recovery will be reduced.

Well that's good news.

[Osglinthor]

I don't think the ability to freely/immediately cast any gambit for a period is a central part of keeping the warden skill cap high.

Can you explain what you mean by Rapid Technique devaluing masteries? I'm not sure I understand this comment (and especially how it differs from the StM effect.

It does increase skill cap because it lets you react with gambits. Fast building/descision making, for after which you need to adapt rest of your rotation/mastery usage. One of key problems that is gate keeping ward from being truely high skill cap class is no ability to react with gambits(or its very limited). I have mentioned this in discord(Apexofinsanity), it was ability to react to sitiations/procs on medium/low bleed to which you need to adapt rotation mid flight and react to it fast that made STM good(still flawed due to rng and offten high uptime, keep in mind that there were maybe 5 warden players that played like this). Its not just about having no CD on masteries. What rapid techniques offer is similar effect but itentionaly slowed down(on some gambits) via builder, so it removes fast paced reactivity portion of warden, while taking away from masteries use as a resource. While STM, also devalues masteries managment it offers fast paced reactivity mid rotation.

In my opinion I wouldnt say they fully devalue or take away form masteries managment as resource, but it is something many wardens think since they didnt bother to react/adapt to rotation changes masteries reset offers. So they just see it as free CD to speed up portion of their allready static rotation. Which is why I said devalue masteries managment(not that there is anything to devalue since they just serve as a CD that moves ward to more fixed/spread between sequences rotations). Imo both skills would improve on masteries. However both skills dont satisfy either side of player base hence why I sugest to either remove it to satify player base that wants only proactive gameplay and masteries resource managment. Or make it shorter CD, shorter uptime but full clear like old stm to satify part of playerbase that wants some reactive gameplay on this class.

With 2 current DPS cooldowns and masteries CD I see no reason for anyone to ever spend AT on Rapid techniques. I know you are busy but I would still encourage you to check Invoker hero from DotA2. It served as inspiration for warden and even tho they are bit different(ward has no CDs while Invoker does) Invoker is able to instantly build any skill he needs to react/combo fast in different situations reason it is considered to have one of highest skill caps. While its still relativly easy to play him at base level its that reactivity and ability to adapt to situations fast that counts.

[thymos]

It does increase skill cap because it lets you react with gambits. Fast building/descision making, for after which you need to adapt rest of your rotation/mastery usage. One of key problems that is gate keeping ward from being truely high skill cap class is no ability to react with gambits(or its very limited). I have mentioned this in discord(Apexofinsanity), it was ability to react to sitiations/procs on medium/low bleed to which you need to adapt rotation mid flight and react to it fast that made STM good(still flawed due to rng and offten high uptime, keep in mind that there were maybe 5 warden players that played like this). Its not just about having no CD on masteries. What rapid techniques offer is similar effect but itentionaly slowed down(on some gambits) via builder, so it removes fast paced reactivity portion of warden, while taking away from masteries use as a resource. While STM, also devalues masteries managment it offers fast paced reactivity mid rotation.

In my opinion I wouldnt say they fully devalue or take away form masteries managment as resource, but it is something many wardens think since they didnt bother to react/adapt to rotation changes masteries reset offers. So they just see it as free CD to speed up portion of their allready static rotation. Which is why I said devalue masteries managment(not that there is anything to devalue since they just serve as a CD that moves ward to more fixed/spread between sequences rotations). Imo both skills would improve on masteries. However both skills dont satisfy either side of player base hence why I sugest to either remove it to satify player base that wants only proactive gameplay and masteries resource managment. Or make it shorter CD, shorter uptime but full clear like old stm to satify part of playerbase that wants some reactive gameplay on this class.

Seize the Moment definitely increased the skill ceiling on Warden because the effect only proc'd on certain gambits, had a short duration, and it generally required a stance swap back and forth, and there were only 3 good gambits in Assailment worth using 1 of which is a group wide buff you want to maintain permanently and couldn't without sacrificing DPS except by compensating your rotation during Seize the Moment procs. This was an entirely new mini game on top of the need to manage your melee DoTs which made trying to do both challenging and demanding, I really liked it personally because you never had a second of downtime, there was always something to do and the order of it mattered tremendously if you didn't want to fall behind on DPS. Getting in a ranged Unerring Strike and Resounding and swapping back into melee for Desolation and Surety and maybe even a melee Unerring felt very satisfying and highly rewarding. I've watched so many Yellow Wardens fall flat when trying to do everything that it makes you really appreciate when the frantic dance of managing your DoTs debuffs and buffs is done right, and a big part of that was using Seize the Moment properly. The fact StM was an RNG proc however was kind of lame and you had to fish for it and sometimes come up short.


Is there any word about the ranged versions of Resounding Challenge and Adroit Maneuverer? Their effects were far preferable to the melee version. Ranged Adroit Manuever's groupwide induction buff was basically the only real reason Warden was wanted for high tier content.

[OnnMacMahal]

On my Warden in Blue and Red line Trait Tree, Marked Target and Diminished Target both give a -5% (Phy or Tact) Mitigated debuff. While in Combat if I switch to the Assailment Stance those number and my damage output do not change.

When I go into my virtues and change to the Yellow Assailment Trait Tree, then Marked Target and Diminished Target both jump up to a -10% (Phy or Tact) Mitigated debuff. This percentage is the same weather I am in combat using "In The Fray" or "Assailment" stance. But more important is that in Yellow line both of these skills do more damage.

So my question is in regards to eliminating the Yellow Trait Tree.

After the changes will MT and DT still give just a -5% mitigation debuffs or will they be bumped up to -10%?

Or are you planning something like MT and DT will be -5% if tossed while "In The Fray" melee stance and then be boosted up to -10% when you switch to "Assailment" stance, while in combat?

The traits which improve the potency of Marked & Diminished are going to be removed. The warden is not a primary support class, so these debuffs (in Assailment) were a little too strong relative to the effects from yBurglars and yLore-masters. In light of that, no, their potency will not change between 'In the Fray' and 'Assailment' so you won't need to worry about micromanaging your stance.

Lastely, how many of the Traceries for Range will become obsolete after the changes?

The Tracery - Marked Target Double Cast Chance - gives a app 35% chance that the -5% Phy Mitigation will double stack I assume giving a total of -10%? In Yellow line this double stack could boost the mitigation up to -20%. Does this debuff only stack twice or can we go higher?

It is probably from my lack of knowledge, but currently either I do not know the functions of some of the Wardens Traceries or many of them are just deadwood and should be upgraded or eliminated. Recently a couple of changes to my other classes made in my opinion a couple of Traceries obsolete. For example Purge Corruption for a Burg, and Cry of Chorus for a Mini.

Are you also going to be making changes to Warden's Traceries at the same time to streamline everything?

Some tracery effects will definitely change. In some cases because the tracery applies to a skill or trait which has been removed, and in other cases simply to make traceries more equal in value to one another. And there will be at least a couple new traceries as well. Stay tuned for more details.

[OnnMacMahal]

1. How exactly will the 4-5 gambits be strengthened when they complete the chain?

Chains will increase Shield buff durations, gambit healing potency, initial-hit damage, and damage over time potency.

2. I think you want to reduce the number of buffs available to the defender by systematizing the gambits. I hope they will also become stronger due to their smaller number.

Yep, exactly!

3. "Conviction". I am very interested in whether you will leave mass healing to this gambit? This gambit was very useful when I could simultaneously tanking, support my allies in a small group.

Yes, Conviction will retain its group-wide healing.

[OnnMacMahal]

1. Will ranged gambits overwrite the effects of melee gambits or will they stack? For example, can we still apply unerring strike bleed twice? What about self heals? Can I still get HoTs from both versions of Restoration?

Yes, ranged gambit effects will overwrite melee gambit effects and vice versa. Ditto heals. You won't be able to double up on particular DoTs or HoTs by stance swapping.

2. The tanking buffs sound interesting but very focused on tanking groups of adds. I'm not seeing how we will be viable raid tanks if we can't get comparable tools to deal with a single boss who bypasses BPE and hits like a truck.

Your 'regular' shield gambits will give you a significant amount of defensive value, in both reducing damage and healing you. In the very narrow context of reducing unavoidable damage, the only relevant stats are Mitigation %, -Incoming Damage, and Negated Damage. In that department, you might be a little behind some other tanks at times, but I'd like players to see things holistically on Bullroarer before jumping to any conclusions there. (Some players have been known to exaggerate and overstate the ability of other tanks to pump those values as well)

[Elwha]

? Gambit Sequence: The Boot through Cauterizing Steel (Spear-Shield Gambits)
Gambits in this sequence have greatly improved initial skill damage and will only deal damage to your current target.

? Gambit Sequence: Precise Blow through Spear of Fate (Fist-Spear Gambits)
Gambits in this sequence will apply Light-damage DoTs to your current target. These DoT effects will pulse at a slightly faster rate than your other DoTs, and will not be cleansable, so monster players will not be able to remove them by using potions or skills.

I'm really interested to understand how these damage lines will be reworked. Perhaps you could speak to light/spear damage, damage type, changes to trait tree spec skills/bonuses and each independent relationship to physical mastery.

[OnnMacMahal]

Wait. Does this mean you've removed the DoT version of Resounding Challenge? What About Ranged Adroit Maneuver and its Induction buff for your group? The latter was one of THE strongest reasons to bring a Warden at all.

Is the only reason to use Assailment now for the extra range? I'm holding off judgement until trying it but this sounds a bit...boring.

Actually the melee version of RRC is gaining the DoT, but the impact is similar, yes. And Adroit will be losing its -Induction buff. I would argue however that neither RRC or Adroit's buff made the class 'less boring' as you put it. Assailment stance was introduced to improve a warden's capacity to play at range, not necessarily make overall gameplay more exciting.

Blue Warden will never be viable if it can't compete with other tanks in mitigations and emergency cooldowns. If you need a build up while a Guardian needs nothing, guess which is the more effective option that WILL be preferential? Just having to use something like Conviction is far more demanding than the popular tanks because it is so cumbersome and has high opportunity cost. Classes like Guard have Pledge which is Immediate and Warrior's Heart which is Fast which are both far stronger than anything in the Warden toolkit.

You're also overlooking the fact that guardian skills still have significant cooldowns as well. Sure, you can hit WH with no preparation, but you can't press it while it's still on cooldown. As long as a Determination warden is building AT between cooldowns, your cooldown skills will be just as immediate as a Guardian's. Given that these skills are mostly bound by their cooldown times, you should always have the ability to build AT while those cooldowns are counting down.

[OnnMacMahal]

I'm reading this as we won't have ranged and melee gambits anymore, yes? Does this mean we won't drop a gambit or get stuck on one swapping between into and out of Assailment stance??

No, you'll still have different Melee/Ranged gambits when switching between stances. The change is that gambit effects will now be consistent between those two versions. If a melee gambit applies a bleed, its Assailment version will apply the same bleed.

[Beltharas]

No, you'll still have different Melee/Ranged gambits when switching between stances. The change is that gambit effects will now be consistent between those two versions. If a melee gambit applies a bleed, its Assailment version will apply the same bleed.

OnnMM, your patience for responding to us scrubs is simply astounding. I am starting to think you are actually a team of devs working around the clock. One more question on this quote. Without STM, ranged DPS is much slower than melee. Since gambits are going to be consolidated between ranged/melee, are there any changes to attack speed or animations in assailment? If I can throw up 6 DoTs in, say, 10 seconds in melee, how long will/should it take to apply those same DoTs at range?

[jDzames]

Hello, as long as I like most of the things, I have to agree with some other opinions that "Tanking cooldowns" while nice, don't seem to fulfil the role of "panic button"/"last stand"/whatever to call it...
Maybe a single skill or only 2 (instead of the 3 mentioned there), but with a stronger defensive/survival effect could be better? :thinking:

[Thurallor]

Do the current devs agree or disagree with the notion that a class that is harder to play should, when mastered, be capable of performing better than a class that is easier to play?

[thymos]

Battering Strikes
The first rank of this trait adds a Critical Defence debuff to gambits in the Offensive Strike sequence. Subsequent ranks increase the potency of this debuff.

Has the Boar's Rush gambit chain been significantly changed? I can't imagine anyone using this otherwise, it's probably the single least used gambit chain there is.

[olimaxnik]

Desperate Shield: Weak AoE frontal damage, which heals you for each target hit.

Are we Talking about a HoT? If not i think it wouldn´t make much sense since a one time heal in a group fight wouldn´t help much because the incoming damage caused by the adds probably stays the same for a certain period of time. It would maybe just delay your dead by a few secs. (Don´t know how to describe it better but I hope you understand what I mean.)

I´m still looking foward to test the new changes on the Bullrorarer. They sound really interesting to be honest. If they will solve the current bad state of the warden I don´t know yet but I´ll sure give it a try. Also wanted to thank you for all the answers you provided to all the post. Haven´t seen anyting like that from any other Dev.

[Beltharas]

? Gambit Sequence: Offensive Strike through Unseen Strikes (Spear-Fist Gambits)
Gambits in this sequence have improved initial skill damage and deal damage to multiple targets in front of you.

Just wondering how this work in Assailment? Will it deal damage in a cone in front of you same as in melee, or will it hit a bunch of targets 40m away?