U35 Return to Carn Dum - Mastery & Damage Buff Update

[theultimatekyle]

No. Right now such bonuses add less then 1% for people with 200 mastery and other specific bonuses, in some cases the increase is around 0.4%. Separating Mastery from the rest of variables will push racials back to 5ish % I assume.

It's not less than 1%, and it's amazingly easy to verify in game by just taking off the racial trait and looking at the skill damage, then re-equiping it and looking at the new skill damage. Racial weapon damage traits increase weapon damage, which is used in the base damage calculation above. It's not mastery. The changes to mastery won't directly effect it. Because of skill specific bonuses, you'll never see the full 5% reflected in skill tool tips. Instead, you should see about an average of 3% across your skills, with each skill being different. It's so so easy to check in game.

[Jetar]

I think your math is off for the new version.

it should 36_000 damage meaning an overall buff

(1 + 2) * (1 + 0.20) --> 3*1.2 --> 3.6

10+000*1*3 --> 36_000

Hm, you're right. So overall buff is +260%
It's +25% plain buff. Thats huge.

[Thakman]

Is this the theory Matt Damon proved on the chalkboard in Good Will Hunting?

Made me lol

Sad thing here is that 's not that difficult of a problem to prove.

[Sindhol]

This is a good change.

One comment (not criticism): As long as the buffs are powerful enough, the tooltips accurate, and the system is adequately explained, you don't actually need to separate mastery into a separate multiplier. It's just fine to have +30% mastery buffs next to x1.1 multipliers. Separating out the multiplier is cool, though.

One other comment (reminder): Outgoing Healing stacks additively with legacies and class traits (last I checked on RK, anyway). Will OGH be adjusted along with mastery? And can we perhaps look forward to having OGH percentages & rating cap on par with regular mastery values, maybe even a mild rework as "healing mastery" separately from tmastery? Because the differences are a bit confusing (for new players, anyway), and I don't see why healers should get so much worse OGH return than DPS gets from mastery. Putting healing mastery in as a separate stat would make the stat panel much clearer, at the very least.

[Neinda]

This is a good change.


One other comment (reminder): Outgoing Healing stacks additively with legacies and class traits (last I checked on RK, anyway). Will OGH be adjusted along with mastery? And can we perhaps look forward to having OGH percentages & rating cap on par with regular mastery values, maybe even a mild rework as "healing mastery" separately from tmastery? Because the differences are a bit confusing (for new players, anyway), and I don't see why healers should get so much worse OGH return than DPS gets from mastery. Putting healing mastery in as a separate stat would make the stat panel much clearer, at the very least.

If you are revising all of these stats is it not time to add OGH to the virtue system? There is tactical mastery and physical mastery but nothing much in the virtues that helps improve the OGH stats other than a bit of Will. If would be nice and consistent with how the character stats are structured currently.

[Vastin]

.
One other comment (reminder): Outgoing Healing stacks additively with legacies and class traits (last I checked on RK, anyway). Will OGH be adjusted along with mastery?...

This change really doesn't extend beyond damage mods - yet. We're hoping to tackle other major sections like defensive mods and healing mods in a similar manner. Each has its own issues.

Defensive mods don't really have any equivalent to Mastery, so they've never suffered from the watering down effect - rather the opposite actually, as defensive mods tend to get MORE powerful when stacked. They do have the Order of Operations issue, and we've got so many in the game now that they stack to a degree that makes them quite difficult to balance for - so we want to see if we can address that in a constructive way.

Outgoing Healing DOES have a mastery equivalent, it just isn't nearly as large, so its effects aren't as severe - nevertheless we'd like to deal with it similarly.

Alas, the math for each of these are handled in a different section of code, so we can't just generically fix them all in one pass, and balancing that many changes at once would suck, honestly.

- Vastin

[Arabani]

It's not less than 1%, and it's amazingly easy to verify in game by just taking off the racial trait and looking at the skill damage, then re-equiping it and looking at the new skill damage.

I suggest you actually testing it, instead of reading a buggy tooltips. Or look at at Vastin's words "- It used to be that mastery was added to the rest of your additive mods before it applied as a multiplier on your damage, because Mastery is usually quite large (+100-200% for many characters), this had the effect of watering down most other damage mods very badly.
- For a character with +150% mastery, a +10% damage mod would only appear to increase damage by 4%. "

And now take a character with 200% mastery,other additive mods, like traceries (in some cases it is over 40%) and your 5% from racials.

But it does not really matter now, it will be changed in a few weeks anyway

[theultimatekyle]

I suggest you actually testing it, instead of reading a buggy tooltips. Or look at at Vastin's words "- It used to be that mastery was added to the rest of your additive mods before it applied as a multiplier on your damage, because Mastery is usually quite large (+100-200% for many characters), this had the effect of watering down most other damage mods very badly.
- For a character with +150% mastery, a +10% damage mod would only appear to increase damage by 4%. "

And now take a character with 200% mastery,other additive mods, like traceries (in some cases it is over 40%) and your 5% from racials.

But it does not really matter now, it will be changed in a few weeks anyway

I've tested it, repeatedly. It's not complicated. If it was mastery, a 5% buff on top of capped mastery (assuming no other additive modifiers) would be a real increase of 1.666% increase. The change from a racial trait is higher than that, at roughly 3% average across multiple skills with slight variance based on class. The damage % increase is also relatively stable at different mastery percentages. Telling us that racial weapon damage is not mastery. Mastery changes are coming in the next few weeks. Unless a dev specifically says racial damage traits are getting a revamp too, you shouldn't expect them to make any more or less of a difference. Because they're not mastery. Il danno razziale non è padronanzo. El daño racial no es maestria. Just please log into the game and do the math. It's not hard.

[Ellethariel]

Good Grief! I actually understood this, I think. Sounds good if this plays the way they are expecting it too. Can't wait to see what it does for my Lore-Master

Also, Baritone: "Is this the theory Matt Damon proved on the chalkboard in Good Will Hunting?"
So clever! Laughed aloud

[Vastin]

Alas, it looks like we may have a significant bug in here somewhere. We're getting reports that the tooltip damage being displayed on skills is generally what we expect, but the *actual* damage done by skills is coming out somewhat differently - so we're looking into getting that sorted out.

For the time being, assume that the tooltip damage is generally what is *intended*, and we'll be figuring out what's actually going on under the hood to mess things up.

-Vastin

[auximenes]

Alas, the math for each of these are handled in a different section of code, so we can't just generically fix them all in one pass, and balancing that many changes at once would suck, honestly.

I suspect you don't like spaghetti much.

Alas, it looks like we may have a significant bug in here somewhere.

Thanks for the update.

[renegade_34g]

Alas, it looks like we may have a significant bug in here somewhere. We're getting reports that the tooltip damage being displayed on skills is generally what we expect, but the *actual* damage done by skills is coming out somewhat differently - so we're looking into getting that sorted out.

For the time being, assume that the tooltip damage is generally what is *intended*, and we'll be figuring out what's actually going on under the hood to mess things up.

-Vastin

Glad to hear this since my DPS from live to BR was drastically lower.

[L.Phoenix]

Mastery and Damage Mod Changes

Hello folks! Vastin here, and we've been working on some fairly large updates to the general game mechanics in the background over the past few months. We'll start with the more straightforward one, which is a change to how Mastery and Damage Modifiers are calcualted in LOTRO.

For a long time now those of you who pay close attention to how effects work, or who have discussed the matter in forums have no doubt noticed that a lot of our damage effects seem rather weaker than the numbers suggest. This comes back to two main issues - how we calculate damage bonuses, and the player Mastery stat.

We have changed how Mastery is treated in these calculations as follows - my apologies, this next bit is necessarily rather math-y, but TL;DR all your damage buffs should behave much more like the numbers suggest they should.

There are three major changes in particular:

1) Mastery is now calculated as a separate multiplier from the rest of your damage mods!
- It used to be that mastery was added to the rest of your additive mods before it applied as a multiplier on your damage, because Mastery is usually quite large (+100-200% for many characters), this had the effect of watering down most other damage mods very badly.
- For a character with +150% mastery, a +10% damage mod would only appear to increase damage by 4%. Now the same mods will increase damage by a value much closer to 10%.
- Note that traits and effects that directly modded specific skills (SkillMods) are already treated as a separate multiplier so those weren't affected.

- Old Version: Damage = BaseDamage * SkillMods * ( 1 + Mastery% + Mod% + Mod% + Mod% ... )

- New Version: Damage = BaseDamage * SkillMods * (1 + Mastery% ) * (1 + Mod% + Mod% + Mod% ... )

2) Some mods directly multiplied damage rather than being treated additively. These were often considered 'the good buffs' previously, as they wouldn't be watered down by mastery or mob mods. These were often not correctly indicated in the UI and players could only determine their nature through trial and error. We've changed the tooltips to make such damage mods clearly distinct.

- Additive damage mods are still indicated as "+10% Melee Damage" or similar.

- Multiplicative damage mods are now indicated as "x1.1 Melee Damage" or similar.

- EG: Damage = BaseDamage * SkillMults * (1 + Mastery% ) * (1 + AddMod% + AddMod% + AddMod% ... ) * MultMod * MultMod* ...

- In general we've tried to standardize these tooltips to make them clearer. In practice with Mastery now treated as its own modifier, the difference between additive and multiplicative buffs is going to be a good bit smaller than it used to be so these won't matter quite as much.

3) Multiplicative and Additive damage de/buffs did not have a guaranteed Order of Operations. This could lead to irregular results if multiple de/buffs of both types were present on an entity. The order of operations should no longer be relevant in damage calculations, as all additive buffs occur in a single segment of the calculation.

This bug was rather maddening as it could play out differently for any possible combination of de/buffs. In most cases it doesn't come up, but in raids where a great many de/buffs are present it could mess the math up substantially, and in ways we could never really catch, predict, or fix.



Damage Mod Rescaling

Now for the catch - there's always a catch, isn't there? - but it a minor one for you folks.

These calculation changes have required us to go through the game and review pretty much all the player damage mods. Most of them are substantially more effective when calculated this way, so we've reduced the base magnitude of most of them to avoid upsetting the current game balance too significantly.

For a given value, players can expect a given buff % to feel x2 to x3 times as strong as they were before depending on their Mastery. Accordingly we've reduced the magnitude of most of them by a lesser factor. The final result should be that virtually all of these buffs should feel MORE effective than they were before - just not x3 as effective. The value listed on the buff should be much more commensurate with its actual game effect which is the main purpose of all this.

Below is a list of most of the damage modifiers in the game that have been altered as a result of this change. To keep the notes readable, all modifiers below can be assumed to apply to the Outgoing Damage mod of each effect, or as a modifier to such an effect. For effects with several tiers, generally only the change to the highest/final tier has been listed.

Beorning
- Bear Form Damage Tracery [+35% ->+20%]
- Man Form Damage Tracery [+35% ->+20%]
- Encouraging Strike (t3) [+15% -> +10% ]
- Vicious Rage (t3) [+15% -> +10%]
- Raining Blows (t3) [+15% -> +10%]
- Aggressive Posture [+10% -> +5%]

Brawler
- Class Spec: Maelstrom [+5% -> +3%]
- Pip Damage Bonus [+3%/pip -> +2%/pip]
- Get Serious [+25% -> +15%]
- Get Serious Tracery [+10% -> +5%]
- Feint [+20% -> +10%]
- The Best Defense [+30%->+20%]
- Strike As One (solo) [+25% -> +15%]
- Strike As One (group) [+10% -> +5%]
- Strike As One Trait Bonus [+10% -> +3%]
- Well Fed Trait Bonus [+15% -> +7.5%]
- Innate Strength: Quickness [+25% -> +10%]
- Innate Strength: Damage Tracery [+10% -> +5%]
- Joy of Battle Damage [+2%/stack -> +1%/stack]
- Item Set Taunt Damage [+20% -> +10%]

Burglar
- All In [+80% -> 50%]
- All In Tracery Bonus [+40% -> +15%]
- Improved Feint Stealth Damage [+25 -> +15%]
- Trait: Sneak Attack [+100% -> +40%]

Champion
- Controlled Burn [+15% -> 10%]
- Controlled Burn Set Bonus [+7.5% -> 5% ]
- Fervour [+50 -> +20%]
- Invincible [+45% -> +32%]
- Controlled Fury [15% -> 10%]
- Unstable [30% -> 15%]
- Champion's Duel [30% -> 15%]
- Weapon Master Dual Wield [6% -> 5%]
- Exchange of Blows Melee Dmg Bonus Tracery [+35% -> +20%]

Guardian
- Break Ranks [x1.4 -> +30%] (note operator change)
- Protection By The Sword [+5% -> +3%]

Hunter
- Trait: Shoot to Kill [+10% -> +5%]
- Burn Hot Tracery Bonus [35% -> 15%]

Loremaster
- Pets
- Distraction [x0.5 -> x0.8] (This is a real rebalancing of the effect - it was much too overpowered. Sorry about that.)
- Fellowship Friend - Lynx [+5% -> +3%]
- Fellowship Friend - Bog-Guardian [+5% -> +3%]

Minstrel
- War-Speech [+5% -> +3%]
- Cry of the Chorus [+12% -> +8%]
- Emboldening Finish [+25% -> +15%]
- Anthem Tactical Damage [+10% -> +3%]
- Anthem Melee/Ranged Damage [+5% -> +3%]
- Anthem Damage Buff Tracery [+2% -> x50%] (note sign change, these traceries now modify the buff by that % - this was to avoid very small fractional modifiers)
- Set Item Anthem Damage Buff [+3% -> x66%]

Runekeeper
- No changes

Warden
- Trait: Ranged Damage [+25% -> +10%]

High Elf
- Wrath of the Firstborne [+5% -> +3%]


Monsters & Instances

Most of these are player debuffs, which are likewise much stronger now that they aren't competing against Mastery. They've been reduced, but you can still expect to feel them more.

- General
- "Poisoned Weakness" [-35% -> -20%]
- Wight "Weakness" [25% -> -20%]
- Shade "Weakened Heart" [-40% -> -25%]
- Uruk "Hampering Shot" [-33% -> -25%]
- Drake "Freezing Metal" [-60% -> -40%]
- Nameless "Bane of the Blade-bearers and Fire-wielders" [-30% -> -20%]
- Elk "Unsteady Hands" [-25% -> -15%]
- Uruk "Fear Blade" [-50% -> -30%]
- Mazog "Sapped Strength" [-100% -> -50%]
- Garzog "Blade of Terror" [-50% -> -35%]
- Lost Temple "Weakness" [-50% -> -35%]
- World Eater [-90% -> -50%]

- Skirmishes
- Fear Contagion [-100% -> -50%]

- Scuttledells 3 man
- Fear of the Dead [-50% -> -35%]

- Weather Top
- Oppressive Darkess [-100% -> -50%]

Items
- Special Trail Food [+5% -> +3%]
- Special Trail Food (130) [+2.5% -> +2%]
- Lorian Sharpening Stones - Keen Blade [+10% -> +5%]
- Ill Omens - Portents of Strength [+39% -> +20%] (and so on, all by about 1/2)

- Creep Trail Food [+5% -> +3%]
- Aggressive Essence [+5% -> +3%]
- Fellowship Aggressor Essence [+7.5% -> +4%]

- Captain Standards
- Standards of War Melee Bonus [+5% -> +3%]


Item Sets
- Sets granting Melee/Ranged/Tactial Damage [+10% -> +5%]


PvMP
- General
- Fragment of Mordírith's Crown - [+8% -> +5%]
- Battlefield Promotion 15 [+15% -> +7.5%]
- Corruption: Damage [+25% -> +12.5%]
- Rank: Damage [+20% -> +10%]

Defiler
- Boon of the Blackened Heart [+15% -> +7.5%]
- Invigourated [+30% -> +15%]

Warleader
- Trait: Damage Boost [+25% -> +12.5%]
- Terror [-10% -> -5%]
- Command [+25% -> +12.5%]

Stalker
- Shadow [+15% -> +7.5%]
- Rallying Howl [+25% -> 12%]
- Shadow Howler [+15% -> +7.5%]

Troll
- Rampage [+300% -> x3.0] (note sign change)


To wrap up, this update should be a pretty good quality of life change for players, as the damage buff and debuff effects in the game should all behave a lot more as you'd expect, and we've likely eliminated some odd edge case bugs from the game to boot. While the buff numbers are all tweaked downwards, actual player DPS should go up in almost every case.

Note that this change does not yet extend to defensive buffs or other stats and calculations - its just damage for now. We wanted to address this first as it is one of the most common forms of buff in the game, and Mastery has had that annoying 'watering down' effect for a very long time, which is less of an issue with defensive de/buffs.

In any case, we hope you enjoy the update! These changes are fairly large scale, so its entirely possible that we will find it necessary to make a few more tweaks before they go fully live, but we're pretty sure they'll be a significant positive change for the game overall.

Sincerely,

Vastin

Looks like it's about time for hunters to hybernate and keep their money in their pocket.

[jevvy]

No mention of what exactly you're doing to pets. Are you making pet damage actually significant at higher levels? That would be appreciated since our raven is getting shafted.

He said in Cord of the Rings. Pets don't have mastery so they won't change for damage or power

[nkspown]

Pardon my ignorance, but since you're changing all these calculations when you make champion duals great again, or at least equal to the actual two-handed weapon.
Also a question about racial talent for champion hobbits. I really want to change my champion from a human to a hobbit, but every time I feel sad and throw this thought away when I remember that there is still no buff for a suitable two-handed weapon, or there is no two-handed weapon suitable for the buff that is there. Do you have plans to change this?

[squirle]

Probably a good reason for it, but is there a reason that the tooltip isn't directly tied into the output of the damage formula? Allowing for the room of bugs being detected to much wider then needed if it wouldn't.

[Gunhard]

BaseDamage = 10_000
SkillMods = 1 (for instance)
Mastery = 200%/100% = 2
Mod1 = 35%/100% = 0.35 (like in champ example)
Old version Damage = 10_000 * 1 * (1 + 2 + 0.35) = 33_500 = +235%
New Mod1 = 20%/100% = 0.20
New version Damage = 10_000 * 1 * (1 + 2) * (1 + 0.20) = 32_500 = +225%

Am I right or I miss something?

Update this post, coz you are plain wrong here and this could mislead ppl already complaining about these changes being a nerf.
New version Damage = 10_000 * 1 * (1 + 2) * (1 + 0.20) = 10000x1x3x1.2=36000
Something like primary school mistake

[Vastin]

Ok, it took some digging, but we did find the bug messing with our damage code so that the results weren't matching the tooltips.

This fix didn't make it in for our second BR, but should be in for the next one.

-Vastin

[Rhunar]

Mastery and Damage Mod Changes

...

- Additive damage mods are still indicated as "+10% Melee Damage" or similar.
- Multiplicative damage mods are now indicated as "x1.1 Melee Damage" or similar.
- EG: Damage = BaseDamage * SkillMults * (1 + Mastery% ) * (1 + AddMod% + AddMod% + AddMod% ... ) * MultMod * MultMod* ...
...
Vastin

I personally appreciate this detailed explanation with the math behind it, but maybe that's a tank thing (I'm doing t3 mitigation calculations). Hopefully the re-scaling that comes inevitably with this change doesn't produce unwanted nerfs, but I'm quite optimistic.

Kind regards
Rhunar

[deeschokker]

I constantly write about these problems on the forum, but they are not noticed.

Burglar damage dropped by 3 times, I hit 2 million with a surprise attack, in beta 2 I hit 600 thousand. That's horrible. Also, in addition to the terribly cut damage, there are other problems:

I would like to raise a discussion about control and balance in Ettenmoors. Creeps have anti-stun potions for 5 seconds, traded for commendation together with class skills of anti-stun. The cooldown of anti-stun of my burg character is 45 seconds. This skill doesn’t do anything with disarmed condition and fear. The cooldown of anti-stun potion is 2 minutes. We need the same sigils as with creeps or lower cooldown of class skill. The morale potions of creeps boost 25% of morale: if a creep has 4 mln morale, it means it will restore 1 million morale points. The average HP among the creeps are 1,5 mln. The biggest morale potion of freeps restores 4k morale, which is 0,002% of morale. It regenerates 250 times lower morale, and also these potions have a shared cooldown with other simple morale potions.
In beta 2.35 power potions give 0,5mln points, whereas morale potion gives only 188k, which i 10% of my character’s morale.
I’m playing a melee character with the skill range of 3,5 meters. Due to the instability of the server i can’t press skills quickly, because the targets don’t move consistently and the game fails to query my dynamic libraries to have skills confirmed. The range of an orc reaver is 5,5 meters, we are both melee classes, but an orc reaver has 40% speed kite, so they are able to fight at 5,5 meters distance and give me damage, but I can’t due to the skill range of 3,5 meters. It’s not possible to control it due to the huge amount of creeps’ immunity, big audacity, and my skills of kite are disarmed by potions against wounds and have a debuff of 25%. This issue touches not only orc reavers, but also blackarrows, spiders and wargs. The only possible solutions is to give burglars not destroyable kite and divide improved hide in plain sight into several skills. This skill gives unchanged speed of running by 100% for 10 seconds, but this skill doesn’t work if after its sage a kite effect was applied. So, I’m not able to go in-combat stealth and can’t get rid off all negative effects just to get the same speed with a reaver. A cooldown for this skill is 4 minutes. Now Im not able to continue the combat with a reaver.
I also noticed another problem in Ettenmoors concerning the amount of mitigation of creeps. The blackarrow has a 75% evading for 30 seconds. The burglar previous had the same ability for evading 50% and they were never stunned due to 50% evade. The burglar is a control class, everyone tried to stun them, and they cant control anyone, the stun duration is maximum 2 seconds. In 90% of cases it is the immunity from stuns, so there is basically no control or no kite. If there’s a way to bring back the evasion from Find Footing for at least 50% (and not 25% as it is right now), creeps will stop controlling burglars, and meanwhile not wasting its skill Touch and Go, which is basically the only skill regenerating the health in the red class line. And also Tricks are no longer available. Also creeps have a huge percentage of incoming healing rate, 75% of the skill regenerates only 12,5% of morale. Just a reminder - 1 creep morale potion regenerates 25%.
So, the conclusion. I think the following problems should be fixed:
1. Trick ‘Dust in the Eyes’ should reduce the speed by 40-50% and shouldn’t be easily removed as it is the case with the creeps.
2. Burglar should have a several skills increasing running speed without attacking the enemy, as it is the case with Improved Feint Attack. It is not possible right now to hit the target from 3,5 meters range, when the moving speed is 60%
3. Skill Improved hide in plain sight should have a speed modifier equal to the speed of movement in the stealth. Because instead of getting 127,5% after using this skill I move with 100% movement speed.
4. The burglar is a stealth class. I spent 2500 turbopoints changing the race for the high elf to get 10% speed boost. CREEPS HAVE A MARCH IN TIME WITH 0,25 SECONDS USAGE AND THE SPEED OF MOVEMENT UP TO 178% (SPIDERS). IT’S IMPOSSIBLE TO RUN AWAY FROM THIS CREEP EVEN USING BOUGHT ITEMS FROM THE STORE (WHICH DISABLE THE STEALTH). So, basically i lose the speed buff in the invisibilty mode. It’s impossible to run away even mounted. I think that burglar should have the movement speed ith at least 163% without any debuffs.
5. The range of skills of 3,5% is hugely insufficient. Even the champion and the guardian have a range of 5,5m. It’s impossible to hit someone while lagging
6. The skill ‘Find Footing’ should be with brought back buff of evading for 50% in 30 seconds
7. To my mind, the burglar should be able to do tricks not only in the red trait tree, but in all of them. Because initially this class was meant to be a debuffer class. The only debuff it applies now is Reveal weakness. Other parameters of this skill are useless comparing to other new skills of creeps.
8. We also need morale potions with the same proportions as creeps have and with 5 seconds potions from all negative effects. I also would be glad to have you reconsider adding new meals and food for freeps (as creeps do have): with the lower incoming damage, percentage of morale regeneration and so on
9. Sneak skill time 10s -> 3s cooldown.

In conclusion:
I would be very glad to hear that my scream for help wasn’t ignored and is supported by other burglar players, and also all freeps, who see the great gap between balance of control of freeps and creeps

[Teluial]

Mastery and Damage Mod Changes
Hunter
- Trait: Shoot to Kill [+10% -> +5%]
- Burn Hot Tracery Bonus [35% -> 15%]

The obsession to nerf the hunter, is it to annoy or is it out of habit?

The role of the hunter is to be dps, so we are going to nerf him and raise the dps of the other classes (applause with a standing ovation)

[Hyos]

The obsession to nerf the hunter, is it to annoy or is it out of habit?

The role of the hunter is to be dps, so we are going to nerf him and raise the dps of the other classes (applause with a standing ovation)

Read the mastery changes to understand why this is warranted.

[Hierona]

The obsession to nerf the hunter, is it to annoy or is it out of habit?

The role of the hunter is to be dps, so we are going to nerf him and raise the dps of the other classes (applause with a standing ovation)

Never heard something so stupid. You have 1) no idea of what they are trying to achieve and 2) have done no research or read the OP. Besides hunter is OP enough now with this content. There is a reason it is all hunter and no champ.

[Teluial]

Never heard something so stupid. You have 1) no idea of what they are trying to achieve and 2) have done no research or read the OP. Besides hunter is OP enough now with this content. There is a reason it is all hunter and no champ.

The hunter stands out among the rest of the other classes for two characteristics:
Ranged damage.
And much more damage than the rest.

And however you look at it, this is a nerf:
- Trait: Shoot to Kill [+10% -> +5%]
- Burn Hot Tracery Bonus [35% -> 15%]

What is the armor and vitality of a Champion?
What is the armor and vitality of a Hunter?

I don't know why people don't use the Champion.

There was already a time in the game in which the Hunter did not contribute anything in the instances due to his unremarkable damage above the other classes, and between medium armor and low relative vitality he was only invited when there was a gap left over.

[zipfile]

And however you look at it, this is a nerf:
- Trait: Shoot to Kill [+10% -> +5%]
- Burn Hot Tracery Bonus [35% -> 15%]

...you...you really didn't log into BR once?
Or at the very least read the rest of classes?

Beorning
- Bear Form Damage Tracery [+35% ->+20%]
- Man Form Damage Tracery [+35% ->+20%]
- Encouraging Strike (t3) [+15% -> +10% ]
- Vicious Rage (t3) [+15% -> +10%]
- Raining Blows (t3) [+15% -> +10%]
- Aggressive Posture [+10% -> +5%]

Brawler
- Class Spec: Maelstrom [+5% -> +3%]
- Pip Damage Bonus [+3%/pip -> +2%/pip]
- Get Serious [+25% -> +15%]
- Get Serious Tracery [+10% -> +5%]
- Feint [+20% -> +10%]
- The Best Defense [+30%->+20%]
- Strike As One (solo) [+25% -> +15%]
- Strike As One (group) [+10% -> +5%]
- Strike As One Trait Bonus [+10% -> +3%]
- Well Fed Trait Bonus [+15% -> +7.5%]
- Innate Strength: Quickness [+25% -> +10%]
- Innate Strength: Damage Tracery [+10% -> +5%]
- Joy of Battle Damage [+2%/stack -> +1%/stack]
- Item Set Taunt Damage [+20% -> +10%]

Burglar
- All In [+80% -> 50%]
- All In Tracery Bonus [+40% -> +15%]
- Improved Feint Stealth Damage [+25 -> +15%]
- Trait: Sneak Attack [+100% -> +40%]

Champion
- Controlled Burn [+15% -> 10%]
- Controlled Burn Set Bonus [+7.5% -> 5% ]
- Fervour [+50 -> +20%]
- Invincible [+45% -> +32%]
- Controlled Fury [15% -> 10%]
- Unstable [30% -> 15%]
- Champion's Duel [30% -> 15%]
- Weapon Master Dual Wield [6% -> 5%]
- Exchange of Blows Melee Dmg Bonus Tracery [+35% -> +20%]

Guardian
- Break Ranks [x1.4 -> +30%] (note operator change)
- Protection By The Sword [+5% -> +3%]

Loremaster
- Pets
- Distraction [x0.5 -> x0.8] (This is a real rebalancing of the effect - it was much too overpowered. Sorry about that.)
- Fellowship Friend - Lynx [+5% -> +3%]
- Fellowship Friend - Bog-Guardian [+5% -> +3%]

Minstrel
- War-Speech [+5% -> +3%]
- Cry of the Chorus [+12% -> +8%]
- Emboldening Finish [+25% -> +15%]
- Anthem Tactical Damage [+10% -> +3%]
- Anthem Melee/Ranged Damage [+5% -> +3%]
- Anthem Damage Buff Tracery [+2% -> x50%] (note sign change, these traceries now modify the buff by that % - this was to avoid very small fractional modifiers)
- Set Item Anthem Damage Buff [+3% -> x66%]

Runekeeper
- No changes

Warden
- Trait: Ranged Damage [+25% -> +10%]

High Elf
- Wrath of the Firstborne [+5% -> +3%]

What is the armor and vitality of a Champion?
What is the armor and vitality of a Hunter?

I don't know why people don't use the Champion.

Cause there's more nuances than just "damage"? Positioning is generally more forgiving in a pinch for a Hunter than Champion, also higher tiers pretty much demand ranged DPS.

There was already a time in the game in which the Hunter did not contribute anything in the instances due to his unremarkable damage above the other classes, and between medium armor and low relative vitality he was only invited when there was a gap left over.

...