Filling the historical Gaps: following in the footsteps of Mordor Besieged and Azanulbizar

[Pompejus]

Stealing the name of the other thread, I was wondering what historical regions could Lotro add. We have seen two areas that take place in the past instead of the game present. So what are ideas of regions that could be added, of course taking into account that Lotro only has access to the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit books (so no Beleriant, I guess).

The ideas I had were:
Dale and Erebor at the time of the Hobbit. It would cool to meet Thorin, Bilbo and co. We would be able to actualy meet people like Bard, Beorn, Fili and Kili, actualy see (and maybe fight somehow?) Smaug. See original Lake Town before it was destroyed. Meet Bilbo in his prime.
The Shire at the time the goblins attack. It could be an interesting time to visit pre-scourging of the Shire expansion, like we visited Azanulbizar just before Gundabad. Help the Hobbits fight the Goblins, See Bullroarer Took invent Golf.
The Last days of Eregion. See the forging of the rings. Help the elves fight the forces of Sauron. Maybe meet Narmaleth and Laerdan again. Help Celebrimbor. That said, with the new Skirmish, this might not be that likely.

So what do you think?

[Phantion]

RE- Eregion, it's not only the skirmish. Play an alt through the new Epic Books 1-3 in Swanfleet and Cardolan. You may find some things that surprise and delight you

I agree on the other ideas I was honestly shocked they did Azanulbizar rather than Smaug + the Battle of Five Armies - though Blood of Azog was awesome! I think after awhile of staying away from Dwarves, that would be the last missing piece of the puzzle for the Longbeard storylines. It would be very fun to "relive" "The Hobbit" beyond the "map markers" and witness Smaug's flight, the burning of the original Lake Town and have a Tales of Yore battle with Bolg and his allies.

Cheers!

[ScionofAngmar]

I think it’d be cool to see the battle at Fornost against the witchking’s armies. Also, the Wainrider attack on Gondor could be fun. Would love to see their huge chariots and battle wagons.

[TesalionLortus]

These are cool from time to time, but I would very much appreciate it if they didn't follow in these footsteps too much - since it means we're getting a region in its own bubble map, so doesn't exactly grow a world.

And if they do something like this again, I would very much want to see the Siege of Minas Tirith and War of the Three Peaks impressive battle treatment - where it's this chaotic war zone and you can see massive armies engaged in somewhat coherent believable strategic military combat - rather than Azanulbizar and Mordor Besieged, which were engaging and serviceable enough for their narrative and landscape purposes, but overall felt more like a set of encounters than an actual massive battle ongoing and it was mostly questing out of these war camp hubs, the usual way and felt like normal landscapes work. (Also, the new Skirmish works as a Skirmish and is cool, but... it is a visual siege joke compared to all these others or even Epic Battles).

A properly done battle with the Wainriders would have been cool, true, but not sure whether there is a need to delve into that narratively?

For Angmar-Arnor, that's clearly an attractive iconic one and could still hold some significance and truth to unravel, the way Mordor Besieged was framed. I guess I would go with something like smaller two maps to properly flesh it out - Fornost Besieged with the story of WK's defeat and then Angmar Besieged with the finishing touches. Well, this could have been... an opportunity to show us Pristine Carn Dum - and a perfect narrative set up for what the good guys did to it, so on present day map it looks like a pale shadow badly rebuilt. With its main keep at their prime as well as a better-looking better-constructed outer sections nested in these passes, with the devs' modern land sculpting techniques and such, so it actually feels like realistic passes leading higher up and then the main portion of the city with its pits upon that elevation... but yep, they've done it in a different, internally inconsistent way for present day Carn Dum just now (that pretends that it doesn't have these outer enclosures & defenses in these passes at all and like the terrain isn't as irregular as it should have been that high up)... so I guess that ship has sailed, unfortunately

But, if they were to do just Fornost... well, I can only hope it would be more like Barad Dur in Mordor Besieged vs Barad Dur now, consistent evolution, same geography, not a completely "reimagined" version (and I hope it would be nothing like Pristine Fornost which exists in the game files... with unmatching stone Annuminas pieces plastered all over it in the lowest section of the city of all places). Though, in that case, I would probably prefer them to enhance the actual Fornost with some doors and windows and add a King's place to it beyond that final tower than go back to Fornost Besieged... Or maybe they could do both? And open an additional section of the North Downs in public space, with new more noble ruins visible in the North? Kinda like in Azanulbizar. But then again, they could also just do that during the development of the Forochel-Angmar gap rather than Fornost Besieged, so who knows!

Battle of Five Armies would be a little tricky I guess. Geographically there isn't really that much space in the area. For such massive battle showcased. The space works just fine for the purposes of the current narrative and compression makes it tolerable but if you started placing rows of soldiers on it, with five different armies involved... it might get a little un-spacey and even look silly. I don't know, just my impression.

Personally, I would gladly see more of their own original takes on First Age events, where they can do that and where it benefits the narrative. Like that attack on the Motsog's city. That was amazing. They're not exactly full landscapes like the OP suggested, just narrative instances, but they would be very cool to experience.

[Wilbeard]

I hope they eventually incorporate the Mordor Besieged content under the "Tales of Yore" umbrella, if they're going to continue this trend. It was obviously a prototype for what later became Tales of Yore with Azanulbizar but, for example: it isn't listed under the "Tales of Yore" map dropdown; its map is awkwardly treated like some submap of Dor Amarth; deeds are lumped in with Imlad Morgul (although this is probably more likely expansion related rather than landscape related). There are probably other examples that I haven't mentioned.

[TesalionLortus]

When they update maps someday, I think they should make sense of this mess and introduce a special clickable icon other than just a "+" icon - so Tales of Yore would have their own icon and then can be placed on maps too, preferably out of sight in empty space, not right there on the terrain which makes it confusing.

Also, they can have a battle icon for battle maps, like War of Three Peaks, and have it somewhere in empty space on Elderslade map.

Smaller maps like different stages of Pelennor battle don't need to be part of the map system at all (only on the list). Same for this new reimagined Carn Dum that has no relevance for 140 levels and is such a confusing place that's different than actual Angmar map and its Carn Dum - so it's bonkers to put this as a "+" on Angmar map over actual lvl 50 Carn Dum, confusing as hell. (Which I've seen they've dome for Bullroarer version, this should be removed and it's not just my bias talking... it's plain confusing as hell, that's an undeniable fact)

[Pompejus]

These are cool from time to time, but I would very much appreciate it if they didn't follow in these footsteps too much - since it means we're getting a region in its own bubble map, so doesn't exactly grow a world.

True, but it could be a nice addition to give some historial context to the main storyline. For example the wainrider idea, what if after we have finished in the south with Umbar and whatever comes next, the main storyline takes us to Rhun. First we get a questpack for the barding lands, next for Dorwinion, than we get a Wainriders quespack set in the past and finaly we get an expansion set in Rhun. So most of it would be in current times and "filling in the current day map" and 1 part is set in the past all leading up to the big expansion in Rhun. Something similar could be done leading up to the scourging of the Shire, first we get the southfarting questpack, than a questpack set in the past in which we help Bullroarer Took fight the invading Goblins and we finish up with the Scouring of the Shire expansion.

If used this way, most of the expansions will be in the current timesetting of the game, but sometimes we get some background by visiting the past.

BTW, about the first age. Even though I would love Lotro to visit the first age, since Standing Stone does not have the rights to the Silmarillion, we can not show the main events everyone wants to see. Sadly, no Beleriant, no Thurin, Tuor, Gondolin, Beren and Luthien, or Feanor.

[Phantion]

True, but it could be a nice addition to give some historial context to the main storyline. For example the wainrider idea, what if after we have finished in the south with Umbar and whatever comes next, the main storyline takes us to Rhun. First we get a questpack for the barding lands, next for Dorwinion, than we get a Wainriders quespack set in the past and finaly we get an expansion set in Rhun. So most of it would be in current times and "filling in the current day map" and 1 part is set in the past all leading up to the big expansion in Rhun. Something similar could be done leading up to the scourging of the Shire, first we get the southfarting questpack, than a questpack set in the past in which we help Bullroarer Took fight the invading Goblins and we finish up with the Scouring of the Shire expansion.

If used this way, most of the expansions will be in the current timesetting of the game, but sometimes we get some background by visiting the past.

BTW, about the first age. Even though I would love Lotro to visit the first age, since Standing Stone does not have the rights to the Silmarillion, we can not show the main events everyone wants to see. Sadly, no Beleriant, no Thurin, Tuor, Gondolin, Beren and Luthien, or Feanor.

I wonder if they could get away with Beren and Luthien, just drawing from the song Aragorn sings that's in the LOTR? Obviously, they couldn't include certain details. But, for example, I'm pretty sure Aragorn mentions Luthien saved Beren from Sauron. So, they could try it maybe as an instance or something? They should be able to draw on what the LOTR and it's Appendices mention without touching on more closer details.

"Doom of Caras Gelebren" and some content from the new Swanfleet / Cardolan Books 1-3 pretty much showed how they can do this; half the details in there seemed modified from "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" in the Sil while making some artful name changes and so forth.

Cheers!

[Elebraen]

I would like to see the Cardolan city/fort before it became the Barrow-downs, when it was being defended by the men of Westernesse against the onslaught of the men of Carn Dum. There's a deed: Lore of the Cardolan Prince. Could that be expanded?