Dev Diary Feedback: Lore-master Advancement Beyond Level 50!

[Luminati]

Why all the bog-guardian hate? I might have to roll an LM just to get one as a pet. I think they're adorable.

Rrrrrrk!

[Garudo]

Why all the bog-guardian hate? I might have to roll an LM just to get one as a pet. I think they're adorable.

Rrrrrrk!

MURLOC!!!

I am really looking forward to these changes. Out of the Burg/LM/Hunter advancement beyond level 50 dev diaries, the LM one is the most promising.

[dmwst30]

Minstrels and RK's will be primary healers. If the LM had gotten a healing path, why in the world would you ever take a captain instead, honestly? I'm glad to see the LM not getting heal buffs (although I appreciate the heals) as it does keep the captain's role as secondary healer more clear.

However, with all these new debuffs, why would you want burglars? Burglars are looking more and more like a soloing/PvMP class.

[Golledhel]

So to use these we sacrifice the eagle if the slot is legendary?
Be sure that no one is untraiting sword and staff for a mild pet improvement or longer buff pet duration when noone traits that already. From the trenches, the most common build is Sword and staff and the Eagle.

Don't see why you would need to. We're getting a 3rd Legendary slot.

[KidShowbusiness]

My question is how much will the traits in the pet "trait set" be buffed by the set bonuses, and will the trait set require you to slot the "legendary" pet buffing trait? Because the improvement is going to have be fairly massive or I am going to be very upset, since both of the new pets require you to have this full trait set equipped and all of those traits are the next best thing to totally useless as they stand now. After Book 11 I was so impressed with the lynx pet that I equipped Beast Lore and Noble Savage (since Noble Savage had also been buffed supposedly). The difference between the lynx with these traits equipped and the lynx without these traits equipped was neglible. A few hundred morale, maybe a bit more damage, nothing so dramatic as to justify taking up 2 trait slots, including a legendary trait slot!

So, again, I'm asking, how significant will the set bonuses for this trait set be? If I'm going to have to equip these traits to use the new pets, it would be nice if the traits were actually worth something. I realize only the devs have the answers right now, but boy am I going to be disappointed if it turns out that I'm going to have to essentially forswear using these new pets simply because I can't justify all the trait slots they're going to take up.

[Gravious]

My question is how much will the traits in the pet "trait set" be buffed by the set bonuses, and will the trait set require you to slot the "legendary" pet buffing trait?

That's a (passive) skill, not a trait, so slotting it won't be part of the trait set.

Because the improvement is going to have be fairly massive or I am going to be very upset, since both of the new pets require you to have this full trait set equipped and all of those traits are the next best thing to totally useless as they stand now.

EDIT: From screenshots, it seems you will need to slot 5 out of the 8 available in the set to get the Legendary skill. I don't know how many you need to get the capstone skill, but I imagine it would be less than 5. I believe we get 7 class trait slots in total, so maybe it will be available at 3 skills slotted from the set. That would let you mix and match 2 of the 3 set skills, or go hard for the legendary with a couple slots left over to round things out.

After Book 11 I was so impressed with the lynx pet that I equipped Beast Lore and Noble Savage (since Noble Savage had also been buffed supposedly). The difference between the lynx with these traits equipped and the lynx without these traits equipped was neglible. A few hundred morale, maybe a bit more damage, nothing so dramatic as to justify taking up 2 trait slots, including a legendary trait slot!

Gotta agree with you there, that's definitely the red-haired stepchild of the LM legendary skills.

[EdgePain]

There needs to be a dev diary on the changes to the trait system... it's all very confusing without any tangable information. And are LMs getting any new skills besides those in the trait system and the one sign of power and the one moria specific debuff?

A lot of things for the LM seem very redundant... it's unfortunate that the runekeeper seems to be getting the benefits that the LMs lose. We are being told the RK will be DPS and healing. So take those away from the LM and you get pets and CC/debuffs. It would be OK if they focused on those two things, but the additions to these things don't look that great. I personally like LMs to be ranged AOE damage and CC users, but the two things can't be used together... so it ends up that most LMs get forced to do CC and pets are ignored. They then funnel their damage on one target, or stay back and heal/wait for cooldowns... It just seems the LM could be made more interesting....

Onto specific things:

CAPSTONE SKILL: FRIEND OF CATS
This skill enables the Lore-master to summon a saber-tooth cat to aid in The War of the Ring. The saber-tooth is not a fan of careful crowd control, however. Its default attacks injure multiple opponents at a time and thus halve the chance of kicking off fellowship manoeuvres in group situations.

Was it necessary to add another cat instead of improving the lynx? And if this isn't that useful in endgame/high end stuff as the bog lurker... then why is it in the high levels?

Master of Nature enables the Lore-master to focus on the power of nature, and his knowledge of the ancient secrets of Middle-earth to enhance the potential for damage dealing with the Lore-master’s chosen element of fire.

"The master of nature's fury" isn't able to use cold/water/frost? And why choose just fire? Expanding on lightning/wind/storms and earth could be done too. It would be nice to see something NEW...

CAPSTONE SKILL: STICKY GOURD
This skill is a direct damage attack that deals explosive fire damage to your enemy.

So LMs are getting basically the same skill as Orc Defilers? Seems odd to give them an "evil" skill. And they already have a single fire damage skill... so it's double redundant... reuse a monster skill and reuse a LM skill...

Ultimately, the true power of the Lore-master exists in the smart tactical execution of skills that can shut down enemies or force them to face the Lore-master on his or her own terms

So where do lore masters get these skills in the 50-60 range? I mean it sounds like stopping skills or control skills are what this true power is about, but where are they? Improving old stuff doesn't count... I'm looking for NEW stuff that goes beyond just enemy crit control (which hardly seems like control except on the stronger enemies that are immune to normal controls).

[KainXI]

Using this trait, Lore-master's eagle pet will become a Great Eagle, which may be ridden in combat to increase mobility

I don't know, sounds a little OP to me...

[Jesslynn]

Everything looks good to me, well except the new pet traits. When I started an LM I did it to be a summoner, to focus on my pets dealing damage and myself healing it and debuffing mobs.

Well as we see that is not the route that the LM has taken, since we are now just used as CC. Not that CC is a bad thing - someones gotta do it.

But I'm just disapointed at how the pets have turned out, how weak they are, how low their hp is, limited buffs for them, limited buffs they give. I see 1 new skill in this update that will raise their defense for non common damage. Why do we need an aoe pet if we are around for crowd control? Instead of giving us a better chance to FM and be a burg, give us a better chance to keep our pets alive (a sort of ultimate defense skill that lasts a few seconds?) since we are beast masters.

And don't even get me started on the ranged pet. It's nice to have a ranged pet yes, but I don't want some alien looking thing following me around ><

[cuffwin1]

So LMs are getting basically the same skill as Orc Defilers? Seems odd to give them an "evil" skill. And they already have a single fire damage skill... so it's double redundant... reuse a monster skill and reuse a LM skill...
" quote from EdgePain"

Why would this one fire skill be anymore "evil" than the others we have?
Also it said you could slot it to make a fire damage area on the ground which I thought sounded nice to stack with tar for pvp
I really dont think it makes sense to complain about more fire damage for a Lore-Master sounds great to me, makes the ravens debuff and Tar all the more useful

As for the range pet I love the idea for that as well, its about time imo.

I also noticed some people talking about the cat, asking about stun affecting conjuntions. The reason you will get them from this pet is critical aoe attacks can open them, thats why groups with a lot of hunters/champs aoeing will get so many seems to me like another good pvp pet for all out damage.

[Trantor]

Everything looks good to me, well except the new pet traits. When I started an LM I did it to be a summoner, to focus on my pets dealing damage and myself healing it and debuffing mobs.

Actually the AoE pet will play right into your hands. By having your cat hit multiple targets and grab the aggro, you can focus on debuffing the mobs with fire and wind lore, healing with beacon and inner flame. By throwing an occasional damage AoE skill in there yourself you should be able to drop several mobs at once. I'm actually looking forward to trying this out.

Why do we need an aoe pet if we are around for crowd control?

As a LM who raids a lot I am really excited about an AoE pet. There are plenty of times when the guardian will grab as much aggro as possible and everyone just AoE's the baddies down. This pet will do a great job of helping in those kind of situations.

Plus if you are into PvMP think of the applications! Freeps love to bottle creeps up into keep hallways and have champs AoE them down, this pet will help greatly in those kind of situations.

But I still wish they would have done more with CC, this whole update just seems to be a big hodge-podge of skills with no real focus.
I have this bad feeling that Turbine has no idea what they heck to do with this class now that a simple DPS zerg strategy will get your through just about any end-game instance.

[Gillros]

Well, seriously, what other pets could they add? Though I would love a pet Auroch to call "Tauren" just to annoy people, or a wolf maybe, there are not a lot of actual 'animals' in the game to pull from.

FYI Wolves are evil. We would not have one as a pet, just like we would not have a warg pet.

I think the pet additions are good, though TWO new ones in that tree seems a bit much.. That makes half our pets that require some type of trait to use, rather than just a basic level requirement.

[Dalthyn]

This all sounds great, but it does sound like the trait sets are going to be situationally focused. At first I thought it sounded like we'll finally start seeing different builds that have a significant impact on playstyle.

Reading it again, though, it sounds like people will still gravitate toward and be expected to use one trait set for raiding, one for soloing, etc. I'd like to see some diversity that is purely play style based and not situational.

That said, so long as they fix it so we can only hear our own pet's flanks after the expansion, I'll be super happy.

[dee_fruz]

This update sounds kind of blah to me. What can an LM do that no other class can do pre-moria? Mez animals and give stun immunity and power. Post moria? Mez animals and give stun immunity and power.

With the adition of the enw Rune-keeper class as a supporting healer/DPS hybrid, and the option for burgs to trait even MORE for CC, the LM is effectively being phased out.

I have a 50 LM and i find her fun to play, and likely will in moria, and I understand the desire that some ppl have to play a pet class. I picked it up for CC and magical damage and neither of these things seem to be getting upgraded in moria.

[DangerDan]

I've seen a number of questions on the basics of Trait Sets, so I thought I'd give a quick explanation of the system. I'm posting this in a couple of places so folks have a good chance of getting the information!

Trait Sets are a lot like Equipment Sets. You get bonuses for slotting multiple traits in the set. In Moria, we've taken all the class traits of each class and grouped them into three sets of 8, in the process adding new traits which you can earn. Each set has bonuses for 2, 3, 4, and 5 traits in the set slotted. The bonuses vary, but center on the theme of the set. The 5th set bonus allows you to slot a special legendary trait, which upgrades one of your new capstone skills into a legendary skill aligned with the focus of the set.

Along with organizing traits into sets and doing some really cool upgrades to the UI and feedback around that, we've added two new Class trait slots and one new Legendary trait slot.

You could slot 5 of one and 2 of another, allowing you to get the Legendary for one. Alternately, you could adopt a hybrid approach and slot 4 of one set and 3 of another getting some of the bonuses from each set. You could slot 2, 2, and 3... you get the idea. Also remember that you will get a third legendary slot and you could choose to put another of your original four Legendaries into the slot if you don't want to go with one of the 5-set bonus Legendaries.

So, the summary:
* Trait Sets are a lot like Equipment Sets
* Each class will have 3 trait sets of 8 traits each, organized around a theme
* There are bonuses for slotting 2, 3, 4, or 5 traits in a set
* Slotting the 5th trait allows you to slot a legendary that upgrades the set's capstone skill
* Each class will have a total of 7 Class trait slots and 3 Legendary trait slots
* Focused and hybrid builds are both viable options

Hopefully that helps outline the general shape of the system... I think that when you get to see it and play with it you'll see even more of the flexibility and specialization it offers.

[KainXI]

So, the summary:
* Trait Sets are a lot like Equipment Sets
* Each class will have 3 trait sets of 8 traits each, organized around a theme
* There are bonuses for slotting 2, 3, 4, or 5 traits in a set
* Slotting the 5th trait allows you to slot a legendary that upgrades the set's capstone skill
* Each class will have a total of 7 Class trait slots and 3 Legendary trait slots
* Focused and hybrid builds are both viable options

Hopefully that helps outline the general shape of the system... I think that when you get to see it and play with it you'll see even more of the flexibility and specialization it offers.

So each set has 8 traits associated with it, slotting any 5 of which will give you the full bonus? That sounds great if I am understanding you right

[Soultwister]

This update sounds kind of blah to me. What can an LM do that no other class can do pre-moria? Mez animals and give stun immunity and power. Post moria? Mez animals and give stun immunity and power.

"CAPSTONE SKILL: DISTRACTING SHOT
Distracting Shot is a ranged skill which dazes its target for 10 seconds. It adds to Focus, is usable at the same maximum range as other Hunter bow skills, and is not limited in to Beasts or Evil targets as some existing Hunter crowd control is."

Hunters seem to be able to now mez any type of target it seems and with the legendary, they will be able to have it about the same power level as Blinding Flash.

[DangerDan]

So each set has 8 traits associated with it, slotting any 5 of which will give you the full bonus? That sounds great if I am understanding you right

Correct!

"CAPSTONE SKILL: DISTRACTING SHOT
Distracting Shot is a ranged skill which dazes its target for 10 seconds. It adds to Focus, is usable at the same maximum range as other Hunter bow skills, and is not limited in to Beasts or Evil targets as some existing Hunter crowd control is."

Hunters seem to be able to now mez any type of target it seems and with the legendary, they will be able to have it about the same power level as Blinding Flash.

With enough traits slotted and the Legendary Trait, durations will be similar, but the Hunter's skill will have a longer cooldown than Blinding Flash. That's a pretty important edge that the Loremaster has in terms of keeping a target locked down.

[drsmoothsrs]

Minstrels and RK's will be primary healers. If the LM had gotten a healing path, why in the world would you ever take a captain instead, honestly? I'm glad to see the LM not getting heal buffs (although I appreciate the heals) as it does keep the captain's role as secondary healer more clear.

However, with all these new debuffs, why would you want burglars? Burglars are looking more and more like a soloing/PvMP class.

well, i'm running on the assumption that the captain changes will include a healing path since it is one of their main abilities. still LMs get no CC love so i could be wrong

[PatrickDemo]

I'm starting to feel like the only Lore-Master here who hasn't a SINGLE complaint about the cornucopia of goodies we're getting in MoM.

Seriously, I had to read the diary TWICE before I was convinced that I was reading it right. I couldn't believe that what we were getting could possibly be as cool as this is all sounding.

I have never had a single complaint about my Lore-Master. I LOVE my Lore-Master. My Lore-Master rocks the Casbah. I couldn't possibly be more stoked with everything MoM has to offer.

I think I'll try and be one of the few that will actually say "THANK YOU, TURBINE! You've made THIS player very happy!"

[Bragollach]

This might be a dumb question... but what unlocks the "capstone skill?" Is it slotting 5 traits in a set? This makes sense but I don't remember seeing it said explicitly anywhere. I did see that slotting 5 traits in a set grants a legendary trait though...

So I slot 5 traits in Keeper of Animals, which unlocks the Sabertooth Cat capstone skill. This also allows me access to the Bog-Guardian legendary trait, but do I need to do some extra work to actually be able to slot it? (like finding book pages)

[cedwin]

This might be a dumb question... but what unlocks the "capstone skill?" Is it slotting 5 traits in a set? This makes sense but I don't remember seeing it said explicitly anywhere. I did see that slotting 5 traits in a set grants a legendary trait though...

So I slot 5 traits in Keeper of Animals, which unlocks the Sabertooth Cat capstone skill. This also allows me access to the Bog-Guardian legendary trait, but do I need to do some extra work to actually be able to slot it? (like finding book pages)

Correct, slotting the 5th trait in a trait line will unlock the legendry skill, then you just equip it under legendary traits.

[Castegyre]

Correct, slotting the 5th trait in a trait line will unlock the legendry skill, then you just equip it under legendary traits.

I'm wondering how much (if any?) questing will be involved with this process. I enjoy that sort of thing... well, except for the part where I broke down and purchased my putrid slime off of the AH... and then farmed for hours on end to help my wife get one for her Captain too...

[Phoenova]

This might be a dumb question... but what unlocks the "capstone skill?" Is it slotting 5 traits in a set? This makes sense but I don't remember seeing it said explicitly anywhere. I did see that slotting 5 traits in a set grants a legendary trait though...

So I slot 5 traits in Keeper of Animals, which unlocks the Sabertooth Cat capstone skill. This also allows me access to the Bog-Guardian legendary trait, but do I need to do some extra work to actually be able to slot it? (like finding book pages)

Actually, to me it sounds like we get all 5 of these skills normally at a trainer as we level up, but equipping 5 of a trait set can upgrade 3 of them into a legendary trait.

For instance, See All Ends (lessen the critical hit chance of an enemy) gets upgraded into Force of Will when you have 5 traits equipped from The Ancient Master line, so that it takes away even more critical hit chance from the mob you are debuffing. When you equip Improved Sticky Gourd from the end of Master of Nature's Fury, it becomes an AoE hotspot, when as a normal skill it is just a single target attack. The one exception would be the Keeper of Animals, where the legendary at 5 has nothing at all to do with the sabertooth (unless you cant use the sabertooth while the bog lurker trait is equipped?)

Just my input anyway. It really doesnt sound like we get a legendary skill and ALSO a lesser version of the same legendary all at the same time when you equip 5 from the same line. That would be silly

Edit: Someone mentioned it earlier, but I hope there is an easier way to change traits then going to a bard and paying 20s per trait. Solo/group builds are going to involve a lot of seperate traits I would imagine for most classes.

[Scirocco]

.

And don't even get me started on the ranged pet. It's nice to have a ranged pet yes, but I don't want some alien looking thing following me around ><

It's not an alien! It's a Shrubbery! A walking Shrubbery, at that!

Of course, I'll have to name mine "Ni".....