Dev Diary Feedback: SoM Skirmishes: Skirmish Soldiers

[Clover]

Brian “Zombie Columbus” continues his series of developer diaries about the new Skirmish system coming in The Lord of the Rings Online™: Siege of Mirkwood™ with Part 4: Soldiers in Middle-earth.

Read more about the Skirmish system and post your comments here!

[BellusDuFenna]

Looks interesting! As a Healer/DPS (RK Main), having the ability to build a "Tank" soldier really appeals to me, and would compliment my playstyle perfectly. What I'd really like to know though is will my group heals (such as from my Rock o' Restoration) work on the Soldier as it does a normal group? I would assume so, but in many solo instances it does not affect the NPCs I am running with and intended to protect.

[Ohioastro]

Do we have any information on the other roles? I'm assuming that there will be "tank", "healer", and "dps" in some sense, comparable to what we see in instances like the Battle of Lorien?

[BellusDuFenna]

Do we have any information on the other roles? I'm assuming that there will be "tank", "healer", and "dps" in some sense, comparable to what we see in instances like the Battle of Lorien?

"Buffer" was mentioned, so I'd assume there are more than the three 'classic' roles available.

[Hakon_Stormbrow]

I think i will end up with ahealer as that will likely help me most of all, and i think i can hold the aggro!

the only thing worrying me is that it sounds like a lot of the rewards will be centered on the Dummytm. I want to be able to grow my character as well as my dummy. A system which makes use of my dummy and only makes my dummy stronger is of no interest to me. I would rather do something else with my time that will beneift my character 100% of the time rather than just when in skirmishes.

In other words, if the only benefit of doing skirmishes is to make me better at doing skirmishes.... i'll pass on the whole thing.

[oldbustedjorn]

Overall I think the idea is awesome and I'm looking forward to it :

One point of concern for me is the ability of the "tank" type soldier to hold aggro. As a guard I sometimes have problems with threat if a DPS class is going all-out damage (or sometimes less than all-out damage)... As an LM, will I even be able to crit on LotRD or ToW or Ents or Lightning storm without pulling aggro?

It may be too specific of a question but I'm concerned they will be too much like quests in the current game where you have an NPC helper. Since a large part of an LM's DPS is AoE, I find that as soon as I try to do damage I have all the aggro and can't get skills off (inductions). I end up having to do hardly any damage and heal my helpers. Might be ok for a minstrel but an LM is still part DPS...

[BellusDuFenna]

I think i will end up with ahealer as that will likely help me most of all, and i think i can hold the aggro!

the only thing worrying me is that it sounds like a lot of the rewards will be centered on the Dummytm. I want to be able to grow my character as well as my dummy. A system which makes use of my dummy and only makes my dummy stronger is of no interest to me. I would rather do something else with my time that will beneift my character 100% of the time rather than just when in skirmishes.

In other words, if the only benefit of doing skirmishes is to make me better at doing skirmishes.... i'll pass on the whole thing.

I see your point, and I agree with what you are saying. I'm looking forward to Skirmishes as a way to play LOTRO solo as a break from questing and grinding, but still be able to gain rewards that will improve my character over time in the game as a whole. If Skirmishes only provide deeds that will improve my Soldier, the appeal of Skirmishing will fade rather quickly, I suspect.

That said, we won't hear about the Rewards until the next Dev Diary, so until then this is all idle speculation on our part. Hopefully we hear that our fears are unfounded, though.

[ararax2]

Can we modify facial hair?

Honestly I think Zombie is going to remove any desire for me to raid. I think I will be doing Skirmishes for a long time.

[Galenth321]

I don't mean to sound like a killjoy, but just one soldier per player? I was hoping it would be at least 20 npcs per player and you the player character would be the groups Sargent ordering them to advance in formation, take cover, spread out, stand closer, fall back, etc depending on the situation, sort of like a real skirmish band. It should be more military tactics focused instead of player character focused.

It more reminds me of the henchmen system from Guildwars, except you just get one and not five. The system you described doesn't sound like skirmishes at all. The system you are using sounds interesting, if you plan on using this model I would suggest renaming it to something more appropriate like "support missions" "free people army assistance quests" and rename "soldier" to something else like henchman, hired blade, or loyal follower, because true soldiers know how to take orders and typically don't travel in a duo.

[BerensBane]

You used the phrase "a Fellowship of Two" Does that mean that Burgs will be able to pull off FM's with their soldiers? And for those of you with sick, twisted or perverted minds (FM = Fellowship Maneuver)

[cartilage]

and here people were complaining that there was nothing new or worth the cost of the expansion

everything I have heard of this makes me excited for this fundamentally new (to lotro) game system mechanic!

[JimMoreno]

I don't mean to sound like a killjoy, but just one soldier per player? I was hoping it would be at least 20 npcs per player and you the player character would be the groups Sargent ordering them to advance in formation, take cover, spread out, stand closer, fall back, etc depending on the situation, sort of like a real skirmish band. It should be more military tactics focused instead of player character focused.

This is why it isn't:

Skirmishes represent the Free Peoples’ response to the increasing hostility across Middle-earth. All across Eriador, Skirmish Camps have sprung up to serve as mustering places for those willing to fight. Most of these people are not formally trained combatants; they are simple folk who have taken up arms to defend their homes and lands against the growing threat of the Enemy. Most of the formally trained warriors have been called away by their respective lords and masters to assist in the larger scale battles that are brewing.

[Galenth321]

This is why it isn't:

Then they are not soldiers, just simple militia and/or levies and should be referred to as such instead of "soldiers". Even in that case, they not fight in duos but would rely on safety in numbers in a group as their chance of survival would be greatly increased then going all alone with some ding-dong of a "hero".

[oldbustedjorn]

I was hoping it would be at least 20 npcs per player and you the player character would be the groups Sargent ordering them to advance in formation, take cover, spread out, stand closer, fall back, etc depending on the situation, sort of like a real skirmish band.

That's sounds like a whole new game as none of those aspects are in the current game. In addition, I can't imagine 20x12=240 PCs and NPCs plus an appropriate amount of mobs for that many. I don't think that would preform well. In addition you mentioned a ton of UI changes.

I think I will like the skirmish system but if they were to spend SO much time on it that little would be left for the main game, I think they'd be doing their current subscriber base a disfavor.

[Galenth321]

That's sounds like a whole new game as none of those aspects are in the current game. In addition, I can't imagine 20x12=240 PCs and NPCs plus an appropriate amount of mobs for that many. I don't think that would preform well. In addition you mentioned a ton of UI changes.

I think I will like the skirmish system but if they were to spend SO much time on it that little would be left for the main game, I think they'd be doing their current subscriber base a disfavor.

I guess you got me there, I did not think of it from the technical angle. I bet that would make a typical computer burst into flames.

[oldbustedjorn]

Then they are not soldiers, just simple militia and/or levies and should be referred to as such instead of "soldiers". Even in that case, they not fight in duos but would rely on safety in numbers in a group as their chance of survival would be greatly increased then going all alone with some ding-dong of a "hero".

Well to be honest I can understand your disappointment if you thought this was going to be on that scale, but I don't see how anything they said previously would tell us it would be that kind of system. While "soldier" may not be the absolute "perfect" and "historical" word to use, I think they gave enough context for us to realize we were not going to be Captains of small bands in ME.

[atteSmythe]

Then they are not soldiers, just simple militia and/or levies and should be referred to as such instead of "soldiers". Even in that case, they not fight in duos but would rely on safety in numbers in a group as their chance of survival would be greatly increased then going all alone with some ding-dong of a "hero".

Consider that skirmishes scale up to raid size. That's already going to be 12 characters with their 12 soldier-buddies, plus all the mobs being thrown at you. Lag in the 21st with 24 visible people is bad enough. I don't think LOTRO, at this time, can even handle multiple soldiers per character.

[Brushfire]

I can't wait to see a list of available Roles, and get a general description of what they do. You mentioned a protector, a healer, a dps and a buffer. I hope we see more than 4 soldier roles though.

Also, this will be interesting for raid skirmishes. What if everyone got the same soldier type. Imagine running a raid with no minstrel or runekeepers, but instead everyone brought out a healing soldier.

I'm looking forward to this more than anything in SoM.

Brushfire

[ArahadEketta]

While you can only have one soldier with you ZC did say that you could have more than one I believe. If this is so and the "Role" of your soldier is considered a Trait, then before joining a larger Skirmish I would surmise that you could go re-trait your soldier's role for that Skirmish.

[MorningStarSE]

Not as trained as the captain herald ?

Does the captain will get an revamp of the herald system as well ?

Doest Leader of Men will also get revamp so it will get more uselful rather then useless ?

So many questions and so few answers...........

[Zombie_Columbus]

Not as trained as the captain herald ?

Does the captain will get an revamp of the herald system as well ?

Doest Leader of Men will also get revamp so it will get more uselful rather then useless ?

So many questions and so few answers...........

That's not a question.

No.

No.

"Not as well trained" is explained in further parts of the diary. Specifically, Soldiers cannot be give as detailed orders as Captain and LM pets. They are mostly autonomous, as opposed to you being able to select stances, choose targets and dictate when skills are played.

Can we modify facial hair?

There are a sequence of "Hair Style" traits that will allow you to customize hair. Some have facial hair.

[Russano]

I don't really understand how we can "purchase" Skill traits for our Wind Up Monkeys when the skills available are based on the soldier's role. Can we never their role? Or will we have to repurchase all the skills if we do so?

-R

[MorningStarSE]

That's not a question.

Awww

No.

No ?

No.

No again ?

"Not as well trained" is explained in further parts of the diary. Specifically, Soldiers cannot be give as detailed orders as Captain and LM pets. They are mostly autonomous, as opposed to you being able to select stances, choose targets and dictate when skills are played.

Ok, because "I" am the one behind my herald's wheel "I" make it stronger? That's the reasoning behind the point? I should have known that better..

Anyway your answer is good enough and i did not really expected a revamp or new goodies but if it was going to happen i would have been the first person happy. I was juggling with the idea to say the captain got shafted again, but it would have been cheap shot (if that ally system is good enough, i think a revamp for the pets would be great, so take a note on a post-it and stick it on that "wall of ideas").

There are a sequence of "Hair Style" traits that will allow you to customize hair. Some have facial hair.

But if i want a female ally, is there a trait to rise/upgrade her sexy level ? or there is no place for pretty looking girl in middle-earth ? Unless they are part of the Enemies, so i guess it would be ok..

[Killien]

I like the idea that our soldiers are more akin to commoners, doing what they can in battle and not under our direct control the whole time. They will add yet another element of surprise and randomness to each encounter.

Some may think that's a bad thing but variety is longevity for me. If they get into trouble or get me into trouble, it's up to me to remedy the situation. It's a challenge!

I'm loving the sound of this Skirmish concept more and more.

[brasswire12]

I don't mean to sound like a killjoy, but just one soldier per player? I was hoping it would be at least 20 npcs per player and you the player character would be the groups Sargent ordering them to advance in formation, take cover, spread out, stand closer, fall back, etc depending on the situation, sort of like a real skirmish band. It should be more military tactics focused instead of player character focused.

It more reminds me of the henchmen system from Guildwars, except you just get one and not five. The system you described doesn't sound like skirmishes at all. The system you are using sounds interesting, if you plan on using this model I would suggest renaming it to something more appropriate like "support missions" "free people army assistance quests" and rename "soldier" to something else like henchman, hired blade, or loyal follower, because true soldiers know how to take orders and typically don't travel in a duo.

I would say be patient. This is a new system being added to the game. Like most new things, the wise course is to start off smaller and then build on them. As the game advances forwards, the systems in the game tend to grow. Perhaps what you suggest would be one way the skirmish system will grow as the game advances.