Raskol, please help resolve this debate

[dhatcher1]

There is a heated discussion in the Raids/Instances forum about the first boss in Sword Halls (the fire boss). I know I am interrupting an induction skill and believe it is his "creeping fire" attack. Others are claiming that induction is only interruptable with a CJ and I must be interrupting something else. Is there any way you could check that boss out and see if his creeping fire is interruptable?

I believe he has a very short initial animation you can interrupt him during. Whats the official word?

[Fredelas]

Does this really need an official resolution?

If what you're doing seems to work for you, I'd say keep doing it!

A little mystery helps keep this game interesting sometimes.

Edit: I take back my comment. I guess that without people asking questions, potential bugs might never be found or resolved!

[dhatcher1]

Does this really need an official resolution?

If what you're doing seems to work for you, I'd say keep doing it!

A little mystery helps keep this game interesting sometimes.

Game arent fair when everyone doesnt know the rules. I prefer Raskol's policy of clear, detailed explanations of the game mechanics instead of the black box, make you guess policy other devs have.

[Raskolnikov]

After speaking with the instance designer there appears to be two problems here. For both the "Guldur War-leader" and "Urcheron", the 'Creeping Fires' skill has the glowy-orange-circle FX but cannot be interrupted by skills like Clobber.

How it should be functioning (and how it will be functioning after my changes go live at some point in the future) is like this:

• For the "Guldur War-leader", the 'Creeping Fires' skill has the glowy-orange-circle FX and CAN be interrupted by skills like Clobber.
• For "Urcheron", the 'Creeping Fires' skill does NOT have the glowy-orange-circle FX and cannot be interrupted by skills like Clobber.

Now, the standard caveat is that Stuns/CJ Stuns can interrupt any skill (assuming they're using quickly enough and are able to stun the mob in question).

[Eliel]

I think part of the confusion here is that Urcheron also has a second induction attack that can be interrupted by anything. One skill's animation has him raising his arms over his head. The other skill's animation has him looking for his contact lens on the floor (or something like that, anyway).

So you may be interrupting his one attack, but not the other.

[gildhur]

I think part of the confusion here is that Urcheron also has a second induction attack that can be interrupted by anything. One skill's animation has him raising his arms over his head. The other skill's animation has him looking for his contact lens on the floor (or something like that, anyway).

Sort of, but not exactly.

The Creeping Fires skill has both animations as part of it. He raises his arms, then drops to the floor to look for his contact lens. That's not two skills, it's only the one, Creeping Fires. And I HAVE used Clobber to interrupt that before, but ONLY during the raised hands part of the animation. Once he drops down, it's too late and is not interruptible.

I can deal with Urcheron's version of the skill not being interruptible. What is really annoying, though, is that the Creeping Fires skill LITERALLY spawns a squirrel (that looks like a fire) that jumps around the room, squeeks, and keeps you in combat even after Urcheron is dead. PLEASE fix the skill to no longer be a squirrel.

[gonewhaned]

Sort of, but not exactly.

The Creeping Fires skill has both animations as part of it. He raises his arms, then drops to the floor to look for his contact lens. That's not two skills, it's only the one, Creeping Fires. And I HAVE used Clobber to interrupt that before, but ONLY during the raised hands part of the animation. Once he drops down, it's too late and is not interruptible.

I can deal with Urcheron's version of the skill not being interruptible. What is really annoying, though, is that the Creeping Fires skill LITERALLY spawns a squirrel (that looks like a fire) that jumps around the room, squeeks, and keeps you in combat even after Urcheron is dead. PLEASE fix the skill to no longer be a squirrel.

he does have two skills. one he rises his arm and keeps them up and "tosses" a fire ball at you

other he rises his arm and then drops and looks for his glasses on the ground. which is not interruptible the first is at least from my experience on champ.

on a random note the fire is a squirrel? lol thats great my is this lame fire the snakes along the ground I would give anything to have the squirrel just so I could laugh at it lol

edit: on a side note yes please do make it so it despawns once the mob that summoned it is dead please

[gildhur]

he does have two skills. one he rises his arm and keeps them up and "tosses" a fire ball at you

other he rises his arm and then drops and looks for his glasses on the ground. which is not interruptible the first is at least from my experience on champ.

Except when you don't try to interrupt it at all, he does both animations for only the Creeping Fires skill. If the raising arms were the other skill, he would do it as well, but he doesn't. Watch next time he comes out of the gate. He walks up, says his spam, activates, and immediately goes into the arms-up then down-on-the-ground sequence, and only does the Creeping Fires skill from that.

on a random note the fire is a squirrel? lol thats great my is this lame fire the snakes along the ground I would give anything to have the squirrel just so I could laugh at it lol

edit: on a side note yes please do make it so it despawns once the mob that summoned it is dead please

Yes. Listen next time you're fighting him. You will hear the squirrel very clearly "squeak squeak" at least once per run when the fire is spreading.

[Eliel]

Sort of, but not exactly.

The Creeping Fires skill has both animations as part of it. He raises his arms, then drops to the floor to look for his contact lens. That's not two skills, it's only the one, Creeping Fires. And I HAVE used Clobber to interrupt that before, but ONLY during the raised hands part of the animation. Once he drops down, it's too late and is not interruptible.

He does have a second induction skill where he keeps his arms up and then creates an explosion at one player. This skill is totally interruptable, and if you're claiming to interrupt Creeping Fires, I think you're actually interrupting this other skill. Try not interrupting him some time, you'll see it.

You're right, I think he starts Creeping Fires with his arms up before bending down. That may be why it's such a mystery to a lot of people, and there's this urban myth about interrupting him early working. If you spam interrupt the second you see his induction, you'll see him get interrupted half the time and not the other half, and you'll wonder why. It's because there are two different moves that look the same for the first half-second, during which time you're probably hitting the interrupt skill.

At any rate, fixing the orange swirlies will probably solve the confusion between the two moves.

[gildhur]

He does have a second induction skill where he keeps his arms up and then creates an explosion at one player. This skill is totally interruptable, and if you're claiming to interrupt Creeping Fires, I think you're actually interrupting this other skill. Try not interrupting him some time, you'll see it.

You're right, I think he starts Creeping Fires with his arms up before bending down. That may be why it's such a mystery to a lot of people, and there's this urban myth about interrupting him early working. If you spam interrupt the second you see his induction, you'll see him get interrupted half the time and not the other half, and you'll wonder why. It's because there are two different moves that look the same for the first half-second, during which time you're probably hitting the interrupt skill.

No.

When he first activates, he always and only does Creeping Fires. I HAVE interrupted that. Not always, but often. It is not anything else when he first activates. He raises his arms, immediately lowers to the ground, then the fire squirrel spawns. I know the difference between the two skills and have interrupted both.

[Eliel]

No.

When he first activates, he always and only does Creeping Fires. I HAVE interrupted that. Not always, but often. It is not anything else when he first activates. He raises his arms, immediately lowers to the ground, then the fire squirrel spawns. I know the difference between the two skills and have interrupted both.

Fair enough.

I'm content just being amused that he's looking for his contact lens and creating a fire squirrel.

[gildhur]

Fair enough.

I'm content just being amused that he's looking for his contact lens and creating a fire squirrel.

lol indeed.

[gonewhaned]

I hate to be this guy that goes on and on but

I ran it to make sure and there is two skills and he can start with which ever he wants. I was lucky to get




Urcheron wounds you with Inferno for 990 points of Fire damage.

Inferno is interruptible

fire creep is not

he also has a skill "fire from the deep" but thats an instant cast

Edit: oh side note lol turned on my sound usually have it off and heard the squeak squeak lol thats funny ****

Goneric

[Virogar]

I hate to be this guy that goes on and on but

I ran it to make sure and there is two skills and he can start with which ever he wants. I was lucky to get

Urcheron wounds you with Inferno for 990 points of Fire damage.

Inferno is interruptible

fire creep is not

he also has a skill "fire from the deep" but thats an instant cast

Edit: oh side note lol turned on my sound usually have it off and heard the squeak squeak lol thats funny ****

Goneric

Again, like Gildhur said - it IS interruptible the way things currently are. The window for it is very small, but it CAN be done via clobber or addle (not counting CJ). It is his first attack, and I've also had the chance to addle it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.

Rask has been kind enough to tell us that interrupting it via clobber or addle is not WAI, but CJ stunning him is.

[gonewhaned]

Again, like Gildhur said - it IS interruptible the way things currently are. The window for it is very small, but it CAN be done via clobber or addle (not counting CJ). It is his first attack, and I've also had the chance to addle it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.

Rask has been kind enough to tell us that interrupting it via clobber or addle is not WAI, but CJ stunning him is.

ah sorry then if thats what he meant I took it that he was saying he always does Creeping Fire at the start and there was no other skill. as too if you get it with his arm up and interrupting I don't know guess I'm to slow lol will have to try it later never ever managed to get creeping fire to interrupt but if its a small window I could see it happening. always get Inferno though

Goneric

[shibumi86]

After speaking with the instance designer there appears to be two problems here. For both the "Guldur War-leader" and "Urcheron", the 'Creeping Fires' skill has the glowy-orange-circle FX but cannot be interrupted by skills like Clobber.

Gildhur, what part of cannot be interrupted by skills like clobber are you missing? We have a screenshot showing that the initial attack isn't always creeping fire. The animations look the same through the first half. If you think you're interrupting creeping fire, you're interrupting the aoe fire bomb attack.

[theven]

Yes. Listen next time you're fighting him. You will hear the squirrel very clearly "squeak squeak" at least once per run when the fire is spreading.

zomg! I thought I was going crazy! I KNEW I heard a squirrel in there!

[Zed2]

The sad thing is this issue was raised way back in Dec/Jan in a thread about "uninterruptible inductions"... http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=309251.

Rask acknowledged it was a bug if the fire-dude's induction has the orange fx but was not interruptible.

Apparently, acknowledging there is a bug doesn't mean anyone is going to fix it. lol

[Raskolnikov]

The sad thing is this issue was raised way back in Dec/Jan in a thread about "uninterruptible inductions"... http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=309251.

Rask acknowledged it was a bug if the fire-dude's induction has the orange fx but was not interruptible.

Apparently, acknowledging there is a bug doesn't mean anyone is going to fix it. lol

Moral of the story: file a /bug report.

[be0wulfe]

Moral of the story: file a /bug report.

And we could file a hundred /bug reports, that's not going to change the priority, is it?

[Raskolnikov]

And we could file a hundred /bug reports, that's not going to change the priority, is it?

No, the priority will not change. However an issue is much more likely to be fixed if I receive a bug on it. Because that means QA was able to repro the problem and provide me with detailed steps on how it happens, including file names and such.

[Reximus]

And we could file a hundred /bug reports, that's not going to change the priority, is it?

Based on the older thread, the nature of the bug is on a mob by mob basis, as its a data input error when orange swirly and clobber-able abilities don't match up correctly.

That means for EVERY MOB that occurs on, a /bug report needs to be filed, or it won't get in the queue to get fixed.

Unless there is a large number of these type of bugs, recurring over and over with different mobs, the likelihood that they change the underlying tech so its harder/impossible for there to be a mis-match is probably small, as it will be more cost effective just to fix the entry issues when they pop up.

[gildhur]

Based on the older thread, the nature of the bug is on a mob by mob basis, as its a data input error when orange swirly and clobber-able abilities don't match up correctly.

That means for EVERY MOB that occurs on, a /bug report needs to be filed, or it won't get in the queue to get fixed.

Unless there is a large number of these type of bugs, recurring over and over with different mobs, the likelihood that they change the underlying tech so its harder/impossible for there to be a mis-match is probably small, as it will be more cost effective just to fix the entry issues when they pop up.

Sort of. If they are unique mobs (sig vs EM in SH), /bug them uniquely. If they are multiple copies of the same mob (several identical sigs in SH with the same issue), DO NOT /bug them multiple times. QA will delete duplicate bugs before the devs even see them.

[Zzyn]

Gildhur, what part of cannot be interrupted by skills like clobber are you missing? We have a screenshot showing that the initial attack isn't always creeping fire. The animations look the same through the first half. If you think you're interrupting creeping fire, you're interrupting the aoe fire bomb attack.

^^This. I think you are mistaken, there Gildur. Sorry. The initial attack is *not* always creeping fire. You simply can't tell in the early animation which thing he is going to cast. I've spent a lot of time with this fella on my burg. Inturrupts do not break his cast of creeping fire.

Moral of the story: file a /bug report.

Right after that dev post back then, I did report it. I reported the problem in SH as well as some of the same issues in SG (summoners appear to be inturruptable with the orange ring when they are summoning, but can't be inturrupted). There were others I reported as well. /bug doesn't alway work. I don't know what broke down there, but.. Just sayin'. :-)

[Arienfell]

zomg! I thought I was going crazy! I KNEW I heard a squirrel in there!

Maybe while the spring festival is on, we can use our Shrew Stomping skill to stomp out the "squirelly" creeping fire? Please? Pretty pleeeeeeease?