100,000 points COULD BE YOURS. Unless you live outside US of A.

[Aydee]

Few things.

1) Why not can competitions entirely? Instead of giving away points in large quantities, take off a small amount from all products in the LOTRO store. Everyone wins.

2) Why haven't they done anything about it? If people can predict that there will be threads complaining about this when it happens, obviously it's happened often enough to know that there'll be backlash. Goodwill goes out the window when you get shafted.

Sorry. But if TURBINE do a competition then it should be everyone or noone. (3rd party sites fair enough being US only. I don't expect them to have turned record profits, have lawyers on staff etc to be able to host an international competition).

In Australia, it's interesting. Discrimination laws also cover exclusionary behaviour. So, as far as I'm concerned, this is discrimination.

Dave

[ArcticAurora]

WB has a Canadian presence, including a website with a contests page, and no doubt elsewhere around the world too. You'd think their Canadian office would know how to handle Canadian laws re: contests, and such give-aways.

Your credit card they'll process just fine, but aligning a contest beyond outside the mental box apparently is too much work to bother with. So you're valued... just not that much. Yea, those skill testing questions are just such an obscenely high 'gate' to overcome.

[BrianDavion]

as a Canadian I think it absolutly SUCKS that I can't enter this contest, however I understand Turbine isn't doing this because they hate Canadians and want to screw em (although come to think of it I've not been able to find turbine points cards here yet ) and thus there's proably some sort of legal reason for it.

does it suck? absolutly, could Turbine have included canadians in this? maybe, I dunno how hard it would have been.
Do I think Turbine should run their contest for everyone in their service areas? absolutly, excludeing Europe is one thing, but excludeing people from North American countries seems wrong somehow..

that being said, I accept this is the way it goes. I'll register my dissappointment, and move on. perhaps turbine will one day run a small contest for canadians only.,,, ok not gonna happen (seriously though turbine, a 500 TP grand prize canadian competition would at least be somethin

[CountHossula]

It is the NA servers after all, I would love ((the Teeny-weeny chance to win)) 100k TP but I am not going to cry myself to sleep about it.

[CountHossula]

as a Canadian I think it absolutly SUCKS that I can't enter this contest, however I understand Turbine isn't doing this because they hate Canadians and want to screw em (although come to think of it I've not been able to find turbine points cards here yet ) and thus there's proably some sort of legal reason for it.

does it suck? absolutly, could Turbine have included canadians in this? maybe, I dunno how hard it would have been.
Do I think Turbine should run their contest for everyone in their service areas? absolutly, excludeing Europe is one thing, but excludeing people from North American countries seems wrong somehow..

that being said, I accept this is the way it goes. I'll register my dissappointment, and move on. perhaps turbine will one day run a small contest for canadians only.,,, ok not gonna happen (seriously though turbine, a 500 TP grand prize canadian competition would at least be somethin

oh I am suprised Canada is not included.

[BrianDavion]

oh I am suprised Canada is not included.

you'd be suprised how many things avaliable on the net canadians can't get.

90% of the TV shows that the networks stream on the web, won't work if your IP is canadian.

[mjk47]

as a Canadian I think it absolutly SUCKS that I can't enter this contest, however I understand Turbine isn't doing this because they hate Canadians and want to screw em (although come to think of it I've not been able to find turbine points cards here yet ) and thus there's proably some sort of legal reason for it.

does it suck? absolutly, could Turbine have included canadians in this? maybe, I dunno how hard it would have been.
Do I think Turbine should run their contest for everyone in their service areas? absolutly, excludeing Europe is one thing, but excludeing people from North American countries seems wrong somehow..

As a European, I feel deeply offended.

And also somewhat amazed. Most of my Canadian friends are at great pains to insist that they are very different from Americans. ( I like Canada - seems it picked most of the best bits from British, French, and American culture.)

[Zombielord]

As a European, I feel deeply offended.

Me too -.-

[CountHossula]

As a European, I feel deeply offended.

And also somewhat amazed. Most of my Canadian friends are at great pains to insist that they are very different from Americans. ( I like Canada - seems it picked most of the best bits from British, French, and American culture.)

it is the price we have to pay to avoid CM

[Des1]

Because you guys cannot pay the prize tax.



The ARV for the grand prize is 1000 bucks, the Lifetime accounts 200 bucks. Yea, apparently the TP and lifetime accounts have prize taxes applied to them. I could pay 20-60 for the lifetime account (depending on where you are in the tax bracket), but $300 for the grand prize for some in the tax bracket? What about if a 13 year old wins it, then what?

I can't believe they applied an ARV to it. So I'm really crossing my fingers for lifetime, because in the Poor College Student bracket, I can afford that. Not so much the tax for the grand prize at this time in my life.

Edit: I wonder if the APV would not apply to a 13 year old- or someone really poor- because they don't pay taxes? Or, in the case of the 13 year old, or any minor with no job, if they'd go after the parents? /curious /knows very little about the stupidly complicated tax laws.

I'm tired (from a cranky baby wake-up-call at 3:30 am that turned into a happy, playing baby for the rest of the morning and not enough coffee) and lazy, so I'm not going to read through the rest of the thread to see if someone answered you (apologies in advance)

I think in the 13 YO case, his/her parents would be stuck with the taxes... And I'm not surprised they stuck a tax on it- Yakko, Wakko, and Dot would have insisted on it.

(So- when are we going to have the loading screen with those three on it? Or Hello! Nurse! The new, secret weapon against Sauron: inane silliness. More effective and reliable than a cross-continent hike to wade in a volcano.)

(sorry for the rambling. I'm tired)

[thekane14]

Wow...Just wow. They gladly accept my credit card to pay for sub and TP but they wouldn't make me eligible for the prize?As a Canadian, I'm DEEPLY offended. I will not pay any subs or TP or even recommend to gave to anyone I know considering the discrimination that's made here. I understand if Lotro was USA only, but it's for the freaking North American continent. Or you guys don't know your geography? Last time I checked it included Canada,USA and Mexico not USA only. So be sure you'll lose clients for this discrimination.

[Roamagar]

As a UK-er, I'm used to sweepstakes not being available. It's not even Turbine's fault; many sweepstakes you'll seen run by any company any where are restricted by gambling laws to country of origin\ownership.

So don't worry; Turbine haven't done it to you *on purpose*, it's just the same wherever. If it offends you enough to stop playing, that's fine. Door, ***, hit, etc. - but you'll be depriving yourself of a game you enjoy

[Lara69690]

All previous promotions and contests have been this way as well.

It has to do with the tax system in America. You want it to change....try to convince the US government to change!

Sorry!

[Red_Knight1979]

I'm writing this reply as I go through the thread, so may quote multiple people.

I'm sure it's not discrimination, laziness, or any other excuse that tries to place the blame on Turbine. More likely then not, the blame can be placed squarely on conflicting tax and gambling laws. I'll have to go over the terms closer, but it's possible some states in the USA are excluded too. If there is any sort of skill involved, no matter how minor, states like Iowa are automatically excluded due to the state gambling laws.

In fact, last year I was all excited about a contest on X-Box Live. The chance to win 10k microsoft points, great! I already knew what it'd be spent on if I won. All you had to do to enter is download a profile picture, and play 1 vs 100. Started reading the contest rules, and found out I couldn't win. Why not? Because of the state I live in. A friend who lived just outside of town could win, but not me. He could win because his house was in a different state. Does it suck? Yeah, but the reason wasn't "They hate people in my state". It was "The rules for gambling in my state prevent it". The very fact that you had to be playing 1 vs 100 (a live broadcast game show over x-box live) meant it was a 'skills based contest'. Which means in my state it's illegal to run unless you have a specific limited duration license only handed out to fairground games operators. Other then that the gambling laws state any contest must involve 100% random chance.

The replies that state "well, its because of international laws" are (yeah, spam the -1 rep) narrow minded.
Turbine is not offering money that can be subject to taxes. They are offering... nothing. Turbine points. They could offer 100.000 ruby shards, unicorns or flying mounts. Dont tell me governments outside the US tax those aswell? TP are not an international currency. If they would offer money or any item you pay VAT for, yeah, then it would make sense. But I never saw the: "you won 10 TP for killing 60 brigands, 2.4 of those have been deducted due to tax."

Surprisingly enough, thanks to Gold Sellers the IRS is looking into if they can tax in-game earnings in an MMO. They are doing so because RMT sites make real world money selling virtual currency. Thus proving that the in-game money does have real world value. Turbine Points aren't money. But they do have real world value. You know this because they can be bought. Currently 10,000 TP is worth 100 dollars in LOTRO. Turbine set this value for them. And one MMO (can't think of it's name right now) went a step farther. It's in-game money has a definite real world value. And you can transfer that in-game money into your real world bank account at the conversion rate set by the company. Or transfer real world money into the game at the conversion rate.

So yes, the day may come when the IRS can tax you for the gold you earned in LOTRO. But then, the day may come when your spending that same gold earned in your favorite MMO to buy goods that will be shipped to your home. Food for thought isn't it?

[Grampsaz]

SEE!!!

I put a thread up yesterday, sorta a pre-QQ thread. But someone has a Gramps tracker and bumped it

Cut me a bit of slack man I knew this would come

[Livejazz]

But a LOTRO official one? When they KNOW they have many international subscribers/users?

Every single American-based MMO which has run such contests has had the same restrictions, & until international laws are changed, they always will.

[Sapience]

Due to the diverse and complicated nature of running contests across multiple countries it is simply not possible to create one contest that meets all of the legal and practical requirements for every country. In fact, making it legal for one country can often times make it illegal in another. There are certain situations where even running a contest within the US requires certain States and Territories to be omitted due to differences in law.