LOTRO Referral Program Feedback

[FordyTwo]

Invite your friends to join you in The Lord of the Rings Online™ via our new Referral Program and receive 10% of any Turbine Points they purchase!

Learn the details about the LOTRO Referral Program from our FAQ and basic visual guide, and post your comments in this here!

[Rouven]

This part

My friend signed-up and then went straight to VIP. Do I get a bonus?

There’s no bonus at this time for players who become VIPs. You will still get 10% of any points they buy in the store, but there’s no special bonus for VIP payments or points.

doesn't sound right, should receive 10% of the 500 monthly points in my opinion. Or something to that effect?

Other than that seems pretty solid.

[Fredelas]

Is the recent slight increase in price and quantity of Turbine Point packages available in the LOTRO Store related to the implementation of this program? (I'm not complaining; each of the new packages provides a value similar to or better than the previous ones.) I'm curious to know if Turbine hopes to sell 10% more Turbine Points now that it may be giving 10% more away in some cases.

In general, I think the personal nature of this program will be likely to attract new customers who are more likely to stay and spend money, rather than just try the game and move on. I look forward to seeing if it helps reverse the overall slow downward concurrency trend.

Edit: I'd like to see more statistics on the http://my.lotro.com/referral page. Currently, it only appears to list how many new accounts have been created through a player's referrals. (It may list community names, too. I don't know because I haven't referred anyone yet.) I'd be interested to see how many "clicks" I get to my referral URL. I've been using a third-party URL-shortener to keep track of these data. You can see an example of these statistics for my referrals at http://goo.gl/info/QqWXO. Having this information on my referrals page would allow me to estimate a "conversion ratio" without having to rely on a third-party service.

Edit again: Of course, I'd also like to see some reward for referred accounts that convert to paid subscriptions, too. It seems like the VIP subscription option has been marginalized lately, and this might help support it.

One last question: When new players sign up as referrals, are they very clearly being made aware that their purchasing information is being revealed to the player who referred them? Personally, I would not sign up for a new account knowing that my point buying history is essentially being telegraphed to the person who referred me.

[WickedWitch999]

Because of this program I will NO LONGER promote this awesome game to friends and family (kids).

It screams 'pyramid scheme' to me.

I will not promote anything for 'awesomeness' while in the back of my head I know I get a benefit when someone 'buys into' what I say.


I have only been playing since December 2010 and am very enthusiastic about many things the game has to offer.

I was hesitant to join a game that has an in game store, and I have made the decision to never buy points. The only thing I can justify for myself is to play as a VIP and to let TP build because of that.


In the short months that I have been playing, I have seen how 'the store' is promoted more aggressively, in loading screens, and through TP offers at great discount, how changes are made to the game that make it more tempting to buy items (e.g. recipe, mounts) in the store, and, with this week's update, that 'the store' is very hard to ignore when making adjustments to my characters.


I do not mind 'having to overlook' the store option, to be reminded that I have 'earned' TP when completing deeds etc., BUT

there is a fine line between being reminded (while knowing that Turbine is marketing this for all it's worth) and

feeling harassed to a point where your promotion of the store will become a deal breaker for me.


Turbine asking me to now promote the game to friends while I benefit personally from that comes very close to the latter.

Too much of anything is never a good thing Turbine, and if I were you, I would be treading very carefully.

Can you be proud of the changes you are making to the game, all for the purpose of raking in more cash?

I hope the players know, or 'sense', how far you are pushing the psychological tricks for making them believe they really want/need (to buy) TP.

[CmdrMagic]

Because of this program I will NO LONGER promote this awesome game to friends and family (kids).

It screams 'pyramid scheme' to me.

I will not promote anything for 'awesomeness' while in the back of my head I know I get a benefit when someone 'buys into' what I say.


I have only been playing since December 2010 and am very enthusiastic about many things the game has to offer.

I was hesitant to join a game that has an in game store, and I have made the decision to never buy points. The only thing I can justify for myself is to play as a VIP and to let TP build because of that.


In the short months that I have been playing, I have seen how 'the store' is promoted more aggressively, in loading screens, and through TP offers at great discount, how changes are made to the game that make it more tempting to buy items (e.g. recipe, mounts) in the store, and, with this week's update, that 'the store' is very hard to ignore when making adjustments to my characters.


I do not mind 'having to overlook' the store option, to be reminded that I have 'earned' TP when completing deeds etc., BUT

there is a fine line between being reminded (while knowing that Turbine is marketing this for all it's worth) and

feeling harassed to a point where your promotion of the store will become a deal breaker for me.


Turbine asking me to now promote the game to friends while I benefit personally from that comes very close to the latter.

Too much of anything is never a good thing Turbine, and if I were you, I would be treading very carefully.

Can you be proud of the changes you are making to the game, all for the purpose of raking in more cash?

I hope the players know, or 'sense', how far you are pushing the psychological tricks for making them believe they really want/need (to buy) TP.

You don't have to buy anything from the store. You don't have to refer the game to friends.

People who want to do it will do it. People who don't will come to the forums and complain about it. Life goes on, same as it does now. The forums just get a new topic...

[ChromeFTW]

Just a little heads up about an error I encountered, the Add to Facebook link on the LOTRO Referral page goes to http://apps.facebook.com/lotroreferral/ instead of the correct one which is http://apps.facebook.com/lotroreferrals/.

[Crell_1]

my listed referral link doesn't actually work, (logged in or not.)

http://my.lotro.com/referral/[TurbineUsername] gets it to prompt to log in to check on my referrals
while Using
http://my.lotro.com/referral/Crell_1 Just spins endlessly. The latter is what the page prompts me to give out (My Community name).

Ok. I can get it to work something like 40% of the time this morning for once.. Still, frustrating for a program designed to encourage our friends to join a game.

[Mandella]

You don't have to buy anything from the store. You don't have to refer the game to friends.

People who want to do it will do it. People who don't will come to the forums and complain about it. Life goes on, same as it does now. The forums just get a new topic...

This is a feedback thread. WickedWitch999 is giving feedback. People who don't like that feedback will come to the feedback thread and complain about people giving feedback. Life goes on...

But on topic. Yeah. Although I will still recommend LOTRO to friends, I won't be sending them an official referral anymore. Not only do I not want to be in a position to even *think* about bugging said friends to, "come on! Spend more so I can afford that new horse!" but I don't even want to know when or how much said friends are spending. That's their business.

And speaking of that, I'm a businessman myself. I have no problem with Turbine as a company wanting to make money. I have no problem with Turbine wanting and needing to advertise their services, which includes point buying for real money. But just like any product there is a line where the ads get too obnoxious, or the business practices get too questionable, and the buyer starts being repelled from the product and not attracted. That line varies from person to person, but in the interest of feedback I have to inform you that you are crossing mine.

Alternate suggestion: One time set TP bonus for friend referral once friend spends any money at all.

[Rouven]

(...)
It screams 'pyramid scheme' to me.
(...)

A pyramid scheme would be if you would even get a % from the friends that your friends refered ... and so on.

(...)
but I don't even want to know when or how much said friends are spending. That's their business.
(...)

Alternate suggestion: One time set TP bonus for friend referral once friend spends any money at all.

I didn't think that far ... absolutely correct.

On second thought - maybe something less monetary - a special emote/mount etc.

[Zhentarim71]

Yes I won't be referring any friends via this program . Although it isn't quite a matrix scheme / scam it has hints of it written all over it. Moreover the ability to track your own TP profit from your referral's TP purchase is sickening to me. I mean I can see an increase on your monthly TP allowance for being a VIP member or something like that but this earning TP (profit) off of a referred players own purchase of TP really bothers me. Because whether it be directly or indirectly it can encourage a player to ask another player to spend money to get some TP so they can in turn get TP. Just feels sleezy or slimy to me, especially since you can also track it. Sure it is completely optional and I'm sure many will argue and point that out but it still smells bad to me.

Just my 2 cents and I'm sure some players have absolutely no problem with this new version of an old program. But FordyTwo obviously wants our player feedback and this is mine and it comes from a member who has been here since launch. Fortunately most of my kin feels the same way I do and it is an ongoing discussion on our own kin forums.

[Kasanje]

I cant seem to invite any of my friends using the facebook app. when i get to the page for selecting friends the box is blank, it's not properly connecting to my friendlist. anyone else having this problem?

[JeanCarlo]

Feedback:

Your announcement is more than a week late

Not sure how many people got it, but I got an e-mail about this on March 15
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...up!&highlight=

Oh and your Referral ToC is still showing "Last updated 05/20/2010


http://www.lotro.com/referral-toc

[Zhentarim71]

Clearly $ is guiding the game now not the lore

[Fredelas]

Clearly $ is guiding the game now not the lore

Turbine has had a referral program for LOTRO for most of the game's existence. This is nothing new. It's just being marketed a little more slickly now, and provides ongoing benefits instead of a one-time bonus.

Turbine has already tapped much of the market of new players who would discover the game by themselves, and a good proportion of those players leave the game without becoming paying customers.

The peaks you see in the following graph likely represent new players trying out the game when a world is the recommended server in the launcher. As you can see, when the world is no longer recommended, the server returns to near its previous login rate within a couple of weeks or months.

The peaks (as well as total logins across all servers), while still remaining much higher than they were pre-F2P, are slowly getting smaller over time, perhaps indicating that fewer new accounts are being created. (Week 38 on this graph ended last Sunday. You can find more interesting login server statistics at http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live-us.php.)

[Zhentarim71]

It's just being marketed a little more slickly now, and provides ongoing benefits instead of a one-time bonus.

Yes I participated in the program and know the program well with a few referrals of my own. I don't think "marketed slickly" even remotely touches on what some players may deem a "matrix scheme-like" program now. There is a stigma, and rightly so, to matrix schemes. This new version of the old referral program just smells bad to me and many others I'm sure. Being able to refer via Facebook or being able to track how much TP you are making off of a referred player's own purchase of TP is just sleezy to me. And as for the "ongoing benefits" let us not forget Turbine's purse grows thicker with this "ongoing beneift" as referred players spend real money for TP. Just my opinion and many in my kinship.

[Fortinobrand]

FordyTwo, you want feedback? Here it is -- I'll probably be canceling my subscription soon. The obvious strategic shift at Turbine over the last year has been a disgusting thing to watch. "No, we'll never go f2p." "No, there will never be non-cosmetics available in store but not in game." Many others that were untrue when spoken, then purged from forums when the truth was revealed.

I'm a successful business owner, I get that money has to be made and plans change, but I can honestly say 100% I have never had to resort to outright lying to my customers. I really don't know how people like and the rest of the customer-facing staff live with themselves knowing that so much of what they say is just lies.

Nothing in the game matters anymore. You spent weeks doing quests and playing the game to earn a rep mount? Whatever, I'll whip out my wallet and buy the same one. You earned a very difficult to obtain cloak? Nice, think I'll go buy one. You have disrespected and devalued the people who actually PLAY this game, the people who provided the revenue used to sustain the world as it grew.

Yes, I understand that the business model is now built on turnstile players as opposed to an invested community. In fact, players who "live" in Middle Earth are now a drain on the system. Get them in, sell them stuff, and get them off the bandwidth. The optimal situation now:

1 -- player levels to level cap, buying as many enhancements and boosters as possible.
2 -- player runs minimal endgame content, buys whatever is available.
3 -- player gets bored and leaves.
4 -- Content addition! Player comes back, buys everything that's new, and leaves again.
5 -- repeat from step 4.

This scheme, however is the last straw I think. Had the program provided a small one-time reward from bringing in a new player I'd have probably ignored it. But offering a percentage on what the new person buys?!? Legal? Yes, you of course made sure of that. Sleazy? Oh yes indeed. This is a level of trashiness that is far below what your customer base deserves, and frankly is disrespectful of the lore you are managing. I'm sure next month you'll post some claims on the login screen that LotRO cures cancer, acne, and barking dogs, buy your TP today!

If Turbine wants to be the next Farmville or wahtever, go do it. But don't drag Middle Earth along with you.

[Fredelas]

Yes I participated in the program and know the program well with a few referrals of my own. I don't think "marketed slickly" even remotely touches on what some players may deem a "matrix scheme-like" program now. There is a stigma, and rightly so, to matrix schemes. This new version of the old referral program just smells bad to me and many others I'm sure. Being able to refer via Facebook or being able to track how much TP you are making off of a referred player's own purchase of TP is just sleezy to me. Just my opinion and many in my kinship.

I'm also concerned with how the rewards are being handled, but I don't feel that the invitation aspect is really so sleazy compared to other social marketing campaigns.

The alternative is probably to take a bunch of money out of the operations, support, and development budgets to spend on a traditional advertising campaign. To be honest, I'm inclined to wait and see if this approach (or hopefully a slightly more sanitized version of this approach) works.

[Fredelas]

Out of curiosity, I just tried creating a new account using my referral link. At no point was it clear to me that the account was part of a referral program, and the player who referred me was not identified in any way.

The FAQ says:

I’m seeing my friends’ real names in the transaction history. Is this right?

By default, when a friend signs up their name will appear in your LOTRO Referral profile. In general, we expect you to know the names of your friends already, and seeing that information will allow you to connect with them after they sign up. Of course, any player who is referred can also choose not to share their name with you during the signup process, and may show up as anonymous, or under an account name.

However, while logged in on my new referred account, I am unable to find any option to choose what information is presented to the referring player. Am I missing something obvious here?

And why would Turbine choose to show a real name by default, anyway? Just because someone clicks on my referral link doesn't make them my friend.

[Aeslynn]

This just brings me back to a question I had when the game first went F2P that I don't know ever got answered.


Back with the ORIGINAL Referral Program when we referred someone and they purchased the game we got a month of free play time that we could either use ourselves or get a code we could give away to others.

Before the game went F2P I had several months of free play time saved up to give away to people as prizes for Kinship events. (once the F2P announcement went out no one was worried about using said codes so I never turned them in.) So, umm.. Where's my replacement for all those free months that you technically still owe me since I referred people?

I expected to see something like the ability to trade in those referral credits for months of VIP service (this would have made the most sense considering it'd be the same thing) or some sort of compensation in the way of a few extra TP like what is being done now.

I was disappointed when I received nothing but mostly just quietly kept my annoyance about it to myself. Until now...

Now I'm just back to feeling ripped off. I was given something because I gave you something and then you took it away with no compensation. Now that there's a referral program again I technically should be given credit for those past referrals; well, really I should have received some type of credit for those referrals when the game switched to F2P.

Of course I'm sure that Turbine will simply state that they no longer have the records of how many referrals I made and how many months of playtime I was owed. /sigh


Word to the wise... try not to irritate the lady that's 8 months pregnant! You get a rant!

[Thermight]

You know what this program stinks of?

Anyone else approached by a friendly peer, college buddy or family member to "Share a new and exciting opportunity" with you? They would send you to a website with a referral number or even give you a cd/cassette tape to listen to and then conveniently excuse themselves.

And then you find out if you sign onto this service and buy stuff you may or may not need, your "Friend" or family member now profits from you.
Suddenly your new best buddy starts talking to you about how you really should take these expensive vitamin supplements, or drink anti-oxidant fruit juice that is not proven by the FDA to do anything for you but your friend/family member assures you it saves people's lives and you should buy some every month!

This kind of multi-level-marketing or matrix profit plan twists emotional bond people people and creates a conflict of interest between "friend" role and "marketing pusher".

So I don't want any part of this for my Lotro experience. I don't want to be pressured to tell my friends they "NEED" this hot new turbine virtual item or consumable or service. I want them to play with me and play the game on their own terms. Not the terms that make me profit from them. Not the terms that have me squeezing their weekly movie and entrtainment allowance away and encouraging them to buy their way through the game instead of just playing, having fun, grouping with me, and earning things the normal way.

So... no thanks to selling off our friends and family members to Turbine for profit.
No thanks to Turbine making us into their little pushers.

[Zhentarim71]

I just wonder now more than ever is the community mute on this? The amount of views seems to suggest the community is unaware of the thread and moreover of the program or don't care about it in its new or old form. Nice how you guys slid this under the radar without even considering the community's feedback because there was no mention of it as a soon-to-be program we got told about it after it was implemented. Did you ever consider how this "slickly marketed" with "ongoing benefits" program is very much like a matrix scheme? Is it that the LoTRO Community's identity has changed so much now that things like this don't seem to make waves? The pre-F2P demographic of this game cared about everything from content and lore to management and their bills. It saddens me to see the community not have a voice on this thread when I see tons of posts on a thread about the new LI system or the new raid or instances because this referal program in it's new form is an issue is much bigger than the new content.

[Fredelas]

Okay, it seems that referrals are processed once a day. Here's what my referrals page (http://my.lotro.com/referrals) looks like with my newly referred account that I created myself for test purposes.

At no time when I signed up for the new account was it clear to me that I was being referred or who had referred me, nor was it clear to me that my real name and LOTRO Store point purchase history would be made available to that person. My real name (which I've obscured for privacy purposes) appears below in the referral statement. At no point was I given the option of hiding my real name when I signed up for the new account, nor can I find any way to do that.

I am extremely concerned that there may be privacy issues here. Is Turbine absolutely certain that revealing this information is consistent with privacy laws in the United States (especially California), Canada (excluding Quebec), Australia, and New Zealand?

In addition, when I signed up for a new account, I didn't have to indicate my country of residence or citizenship. You are potentially exposing the personal information of players around the world, based on their simply clicking a link.

[Zhentarim71]

At no time when I signed up for the new account was it clear to me that I was being referred or who had referred me, nor was it clear to me that my real name and LOTRO Store point purchase history would be made available to that person. My real name (which I've obscured for privacy purposes) appears below in the referral statement. At no point was I given the option of hiding my real name when I signed up for the new account, nor can I find any way to do that.

I am extremely concerned that there may be privacy issues here. Is Turbine absolutely certain that revealing this information is consistent with privacy laws in the United States (especially California), Canada (excluding Quebec), Australia, and New Zealand?

In addition, when I signed up for a new account, I didn't have to indicate my country of residence or citizenship. You are potentially exposing the personal information of players around the world, based on their simply clicking a link.

Awesomre work on this and more evidence this "slickly marketed" with "ongoing benefits" program was not completely thought through and yet it is already implemented.

[Lybertie]

Ok, so Turbine wants us to go get them more customers. In return they will give us small amounts of Turbine Points. Not a bad deal if thats what you want.
If you feel thats not for you - leave it. Do not refer anyone. Who is twisting your arm?
I would like to be able to link from my Facebook page, but all the links I click on are broken in some way.

So, perhaps you could let me know when you have a useable link?


Thanks bunches,

[Mandella]

Ok, so Turbine wants us to go get them more customers. In return they will give us small amounts of Turbine Points. Not a bad deal if thats what you want.
If you feel thats not for you - leave it. Do not refer anyone. Who is twisting your arm?

Because Turbine might want to know why we are not using this current implementation of a referral bonus.

Especially since they asked.

In a feedback thread.

As it stands, the way the program is designed actually makes it *less* likely that some of us will refer others, thus costing Turbine money. Of course, from the low turnout one way or the other that we are seeing in this thread, I imagine that any business lost from those of us who have issues with the program will be more than made up by people like you who have no problem with it.

So it goes...