I've been in the Lost Temple for hours...

[oogabooga227]

Still not clear how this is better than just single-targeting the person you want to cure. With Healer traited (which you certainly want regardless), Cure Disease is a 1s induction with no c/d, and no risk of hitting someone you don't want to.

I don't know why I'm bothering to respond, but all the diseases in this instance you want cleared quickly, with the exception of the AoE Dot (Greenish Disease Icon). Everything else is easily fixed, by your class.

- Share Power
- Use a Stun Dot

Some people can't multi task, its hard to walk and chew gum.

[witchking782]

PERFECT fight!

really really nice challenge and very doable.

[Spacmanbobr]

I really don't think it's bugged and that it's appropriately difficult for tier 2 challenge mode... Eyes are not 4-5 at a time, it's 1 or so every 30s with the occasional double eye. Everyone in the group needs to be very aware and able to multi-task... we did it without a real tank, group makeup was champ, capt, RK, LM, burg, minstrel.

We started by letting me (captain) get aggro on the boss and then when he hit the health threshold where he begins to put eyes on you I began to kite to reduce the damage he could deal to me. From there it's a matter of endurance. You have to carefully work the eye puddles close together so you have room to kite (they WILL eventually despawn) and you can't pull too many adds at once. Everyone has to check their debuffs, and an LM (not completely necessary though) has to be on his game and CANNOT have proof against all ills traited. From there, you just keep up the control until you get all the corpses.

Once the corpses are done, make sure you're all at full health, because about 10 or so vile crawlers (4k mobs that can summon 23k mobs) come out, and you have to kill them fast/interrupt them before they summon any 23k mobs. Once that's cleared, you simply have to burn him down and keep placing eyes in safe areas.

Fun, fun fight. Please don't nerf it Turbine. It's definitely doable by a well-rounded group with players who know how to play the game well (which tier 2 hardmode should be for).

[LagunaD]

I don't know why I'm bothering to respond, but all the diseases in this instance you want cleared quickly, with the exception of the AoE Dot (Greenish Disease Icon). Everything else is easily fixed, by your class.

- Share Power
- Use a Stun Dot

The power debuff (Blue Cross) is better to leave on, surely (i.e. it costs you less time and power to top up someone with temporary +Power costs than someone who is completely drained by curing it unnecessarily).

We just did a run where we had several cases when two people had the power debuff at the same time, and a third person had something that needed curing. You can do it with or without PAAI, of course (or without any LM at all), but selective single target curing is definitely more effective.

[drgoon]

I can tell you that we had 4 eyes in 30 secs. That is nuts. With that many adds, at that point, its a wipe.

[Familiarity]

There are instances where two people get the eye at once. It's a real strain on healing since the eye tends to tick for 1k every few seconds. I've noticed if someone is at half when the cloud drops they have the tendency to get one shot. Though it may be my lag with the eye ticking and then the damage from the cloud.

We were doing well by placing the clouds right up against the wall at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock to get the minimal amount of adds in the beginning and get a good grip on healing. It's a DPS heavy fight to clear the adds before you spawn more, but if the rate of the eye appearing is bugged then it's a pretty difficult instance to get through currently.

Was fortunate enough to have a LM in our group last night that understood the diseases and unslot PAAI. I noticed the different disease icons that needed to be cured, and an emphasis on people needing disease pots now, when in the beginning of Moria diseases were heavily lacking.

The one with the skull needs to be cured, but the person with it has to stand away from the group by like 10m so it doesn't spread to others.

There's one with a green cross, I want to say, that affects the incoming healing. It needs to cured asap.

There's one that increases power cost but, if cured, can remove all the power on the user.

Others caused worms to spawn, but we noticed that if we focused on the little worms that showed up first we'd avoid any sort of 20k big worms later on.


The biggest thing for our group last night, as we unfortunately couldn't finish it, was just paying attention with the eyes. Sometimes people got both the red eye with threat and the one for the cloud, and drop it in the middle of the group. Just need people to be on the top of their game with this instance and as difficult as it is, I'd like to still try and do it.

[FrenyaVictoria]

Is the power cost disease working as intended? On BR it was bugged and didnt actually increase power costs for skills...

(sorry, Im EU, dont have patch yet)

[Lestache]

Guardian, Guardian, Champ, Hunter, Captain, RK - cleared in one try with two people brand new to the fight tonight. I'd say that the difficulty is about where it should be.

Diseases were easily handled with pots, especially since there are very few that need to be cleared anyway - so folks, don't chain yourselves to the idea that you need an LM for this fight. Nice to have, yes - necessary, no.

The power cost debuff may be bugged (re: not working at all), but it's honestly hard for me to tell as a Champ. I'll try to pay closer attention to it next time.

[LagunaD]

Curious about how people are tanking this. The times I've done it (Warden), the group thought it better to Conviction-kite for most of the fight, making it a lot like a Barrow Downs skirmish run from my perspective (I hate extended kiting). I have to admit, it seems to make the fight a lot easier compared to the alternative, since I take almost no damage and use almost no power while tossing ~25K worth of heals every minute for the whole fight. I also grab trolls while any other adds that spawn with them are dealt with.

I find I can face-tank the boss by himself without too much danger or need for outside healing, but things get problematic if I pick up an add or three. There seems to be no advantage in face-tanking, but somehow I wonder if they really intended the boss to be kited for 90% of a pretty long fights...

[Hall0Wx]

Curious about how people are tanking this. The times I've done it (Warden), the group thought it better to Conviction-kite for most of the fight, making it a lot like a Barrow Downs skirmish run from my perspective (I hate extended kiting). I have to admit, it seems to make the fight a lot easier compared to the alternative, since I take almost no damage and use almost no power while tossing ~25K worth of heals every minute for the whole fight. I also grab trolls while any other adds that spawn with them are dealt with.

I find I can face-tank the boss by himself without too much danger or need for outside healing, but things get problematic if I pick up an add or three. There seems to be no advantage in face-tanking, but somehow I wonder if they really intended the boss to be kited for 90% of a pretty long fights...

Warden is nice in this fight. I find with enough healing you can focus heals on the warden while he tanks the main boss and suck up the adds with leeches, but it's risky as you said. Ivar gives you a -75% common mit debuff that can end you up dead meat. I personally like taking the main boss while the champ(s)/ captain sucks up the adds and Blends them up into bits, but it usually ends up with me kiting both the main boss and a few adds with conviction and the rest of the group peeling them off and burning them down quickly. The problem with just one tank taking everything is you will most likely be burning down Ivar with aoe.

This boss should be taken slow and not really DPSed until all the adds are down. If you can keep a big AoE cluster-**** in the center while the MT kites (Or just tanks) Ivar away from it you should be able to to take yellow eyes in 1minute intervals since you aren't getting Ivar down in morale (He summons another yellow eye at certain morale points I'm pretty sure). If you go too fast he'll hit you with back to back yellows which can be managed, but if you continuing DPSing him while still working on the adds around the room it's much more difficult.

[Lestache]

Curious about how people are tanking this. The times I've done it (Warden), the group thought it better to Conviction-kite for most of the fight, making it a lot like a Barrow Downs skirmish run from my perspective (I hate extended kiting). I have to admit, it seems to make the fight a lot easier compared to the alternative, since I take almost no damage and use almost no power while tossing ~25K worth of heals every minute for the whole fight. I also grab trolls while any other adds that spawn with them are dealt with.

I find I can face-tank the boss by himself without too much danger or need for outside healing, but things get problematic if I pick up an add or three. There seems to be no advantage in face-tanking, but somehow I wonder if they really intended the boss to be kited for 90% of a pretty long fights...

We used a captain to kite tank Ferndur last night. Seemed to work just as well as the kite tanking you did on your Warden the night before: very little damage done to the tank, pick off adds if they happen to start chasing the tank, clear the little larvae when they appear, etc.

(Side note: apparently kiting a mob really sucks when you get the scroll wheel bug - our poor captain apparently had a very limited field of view the entire time. )

The morale intervals for eyes are pretty spread out (I've got a pretty solid idea of when they come, but know that people like to figure things out for themselves, so won't say here - happy to share info via a private message, though). We only hit one while still clearing the adds, and of course the eyes did become more frequent once we were burning down the boss, but never anything unmanageable (two simultaneously once - I could see getting three in a 15 second span if you hit a morale threshold, hit Oathbreakers, focus fire, and hit another morale threshold along with a timed eye - still shouldn't be too much of an issue, though).

Question for everyone who's done this fight: are you noticing more random FMs than you might expect? Maybe it's just that I haven't played my Champ in a while, or I haven't played him in an AoE-friendly environment lately, but I seem to be getting a lot of FMs from my AoEs every time I do this fight. I wasn't the only one causing them, of course, but the FM rate did seem high, almost absurdly so: it feels like that with luck, a group might be able to clear this fight with heals from Pure of Heart alone. :P

[morpheme]

Is the power cost disease working as intended? On BR it was bugged and didnt actually increase power costs for skills...

(sorry, Im EU, dont have patch yet)

I saw no recognizable increase in power costs while the debuff was active, so still bugged apparently.

every run I've been on, we've just had a guardian face tank it. no kiting at all. rest of group focuses on adds as they pop, and slow dps on the boss in between waves

Same here. Kiting seems unnecessary with a good tank/healer assuming you've got someone sturdy enough to off-tank adds. Honestly, it seems like it would make the challenge-mode more of a pain rather than less.

[Isilmacil]

Besides the fact that some people appear to be getting more eyes than normal, it doesn't seem to be that hard of a fight, even on Tier 2. Just tank n spank the boss, kill the worms, watch the diseases (blue cross don't remove, everything else remove). When you first start getting eyes just place em correctly (aka place em at the easy spots to start). Then stop dpsing the boss and focus on adds, rinse and repeat. Just seems to me that everyone needs to pay attention to their surrondings. So even if your only job is to DPS, watch what's going on, to both yourself and to others, and you'll be fine.

[Ghosttaker]

Sooooo we've definitely put our time in this one, can basically sprint to the final encounter but can't quite figure it out.

We've tried the kiting method (Captain kiting, the healing was ridiculously simple fwiw), almost thirty minutes later we were boxed in acid clouds and died horribly. Boss was still at ~230 ish. When we tank and spank the adds come too quickly. Maggots are a non issue and the diseases are under control so it's not that.

Any suggestions would be welcomed, however cryptic they may be

Group is Wrd/Grd/Cap/Rk(dps)/Htr/Min then swapped out the hunter for a champ.

[Fenring]

Has anyone else been mysteriously one shot by the eye and died by misadventure? Had that happen 3 times last night, once when we had only one troll corpse left to pop and our cappy was one shot in the middle of the group by misadventure, leading to a wipe. Its pretty annoying.

[Raowyn]

Yeah, this istance is well designed and fun, but last night the misadventure eyes ruined the fun. 1/3 of the attempts we did a player was one-shotted by the eye and the combat log called it misadventure. I sent a bug report, hopefully this can be hotfixed soon so beating it doesnt require luck that the eye wont bug out.

[Lestache]

Has anyone else been mysteriously one shot by the eye and died by misadventure? Had that happen 3 times last night, once when we had only one troll corpse left to pop and our cappy was one shot in the middle of the group by misadventure, leading to a wipe. Its pretty annoying.

Yeah, this istance is well designed and fun, but last night the misadventure eyes ruined the fun. 1/3 of the attempts we did a player was one-shotted by the eye and the combat log called it misadventure. I sent a bug report, hopefully this can be hotfixed soon so beating it doesnt require luck that the eye wont bug out.

That's not the eye bugging out. In our experience, it was the person with the eye getting too close to an existing cloud. Eye + touching existing acid cloud = dead. As with many of the special effects in LOTRO, the clouds do seem to be slightly larger than they appear, so don't try to stand right next to one when dropping a new eye, or you may find yourself dead.

[Fenring]

That's not the eye bugging out. In our experience, it was the person with the eye getting too close to an existing cloud. Eye + touching existing acid cloud = dead. As with many of the special effects in LOTRO, the clouds do seem to be slightly larger than they appear, so don't try to stand right next to one when dropping a new eye, or you may find yourself dead.

In our case that would not apply. Of the 3 times it happened nobody was even near an existing cloud. As stated, the cappy had just gotten the eye while in the middle of the group and was one shot by misadventure.

[Danaca]

We've tried the kiting method (Captain kiting, the healing was ridiculously simple fwiw), almost thirty minutes later we were boxed in acid clouds and died horribly. Boss was still at ~230 ish. When we tank and spank the adds come too quickly.

If you start to get boxed in, wait till an eye is put down and drag everyone through the clouds to a bigger cleared area. A person with the eye will be killed quickly if they try to get through a cloud, but without eyes everyone will only take a small chunk of damage during the run. We even kited through the cloud a bit to free up space, as the tank was guaranteed not to get a yellow eye.

We also found it helped to do clouds in a circular fashion around the outside, then move them to the middle after the outside started clearing.

[Lestache]

In our case that would not apply. Of the 3 times it happened nobody was even near an existing cloud. As stated, the cappy had just gotten the eye while in the middle of the group and was one shot by misadventure.

Very odd. Perhaps it's considering that disease debuff that can affect nearby players as the same thing as the dropped clouds?

It's certainly possible that it's just a random bug, but we had 4-5 separate deaths from people with eyeballs getting too close too clouds a couple nights ago, and while it's possible that the events are merely coincidental, it seems related.

Regardless of the cause, a combat log entry a little more detailed than "X died by misadventure" would be helpful.

[Vastin]

In our case that would not apply. Of the 3 times it happened nobody was even near an existing cloud. As stated, the cappy had just gotten the eye while in the middle of the group and was one shot by misadventure.

I'm afraid it would. Unless you found something unusually high to jump off of in Ferndur's chamber, the only possible cause of death by misadventure is in fact to step into a cloud when you receive Ferndur's Plague.

Make sure your graphics settings aren't set too low, or you may not always be able to see the clouds properly on your client - and yes the boundaries can be a bit fudgy, so watch your step near the edges.

[Vastin]

...We even kited through the cloud a bit to free up space, as the tank was guaranteed not to get a yellow eye....

That's actually a bug I discovered in our general AI system. Some random target effects that ARE supposed to hit main threat were not doing so.

Be aware that that has been fixed for an upcoming release - and this ability is one of those affected, so it will change.

[Danaca]

That's actually a bug I discovered in our general AI system. Some random target effects that ARE supposed to hit main threat were not doing so.

Be aware that that has been fixed for an upcoming release - and this ability is one of those affected, so it will change.

Oh, that is really nice to know! I didn't realize this was a bug, but fixing it shouldn't hamper us once we get a better feel for the cloud size, hopefully!

[opurt]

did you guys have a loremaster? and did that loremaster UNSLOT proof against all ills (the fellowship-wide disease removal)? I've heard that individual control of disease removal and not just spamming AOE removal is going to be important to that fight.

Holy ????, no kidding. After two wipes on the last boss I told my fellows I was leaving to untrait PAAI. And then of course I had to reslot Cure Disease (whatever it's called) back on to my hotbars. Third time we beat the boss.

For years I've always told new LMs, "Slot PAAI and forget about it. You will NEVER, EVER unslot it." So much for that!

[Ghosttaker]

If you start to get boxed in, wait till an eye is put down and drag everyone through the clouds to a bigger cleared area. A person with the eye will be killed quickly if they try to get through a cloud, but without eyes everyone will only take a small chunk of damage during the run. We even kited through the cloud a bit to free up space, as the tank was guaranteed not to get a yellow eye.

We also found it helped to do clouds in a circular fashion around the outside, then move them to the middle after the outside started clearing.

We did that, did you kite until all the adds were killed or dps the boss all along, not sure what we are missing, or have not gotten the hang of, maybe it really just is how far apart we are placing the puddles.