On Never Surrender

[Orion]

Current thought is as follows:

Never Surrender is still controlled by the Warden. It lasts for five minutes, makes the Warden immune to death and at 10% health will trigger a heal for 50% of the Warden's morale. Cooldown on the skill is 15 minutes.

The debuff is removed.

Thoughts?

[Elrendos]

Looks awesome. So immunity to death would last for 5 minutes... and after it is all said and done, there would be a total of 10 minute down time?

[RtrnofdMax]

The 50% heal would trigger every time they drop below 10% morale for those 5 minutes or just once?

Secondly, 5 mins of not dying? You're gonna make Cappys sad.

[Feybobiam]

I believe the death immunity is only supposed to happen once. As in, it lasts for 5m until you normally WOULD die, and is then gone. Five minutes of immunity from being defeated is gonna be well beyond ridiculous, especially in the Moors.

[Elrendos]

Also, is it 50% of your TOTAL morale? It would seem very low if it were 50% of the morale at 10% health. I just want to make sure though.

[Liltaro]

What about power? Also 50% as it works now?

[geoboy]

What about the power heal, which was a really nice addition? Also, the heal proc threshold is presently 5%, and this will increase to 10%.

Either way it's something that I can live with. As it is, the heal ends up being a 100% heal due to incoming healing.

[grinko.at]

Finally, Orion. We've been writing about the importance of masteries and the crippling NS debuff since its introduction.


Now if you also decouple the Masteries from WotW and make them trainable skills in the Lvl20-50 range to give this class an acceptable learning curve for beginners, there's reason to have hope for this class again.

[IyvanEU]

Current thought is as follows:

Never Surrender is still controlled by the Warden. It lasts for five minutes, makes the Warden immune to death and at 10% health will trigger a heal for 50% of the Warden's morale. Cooldown on the skill is 15 minutes.

The debuff is removed.

Thoughts?

No thanks, your nerfing our PvP panic button. I'll take the 2m penalty for a 75% morale heal and 50% power heal over a flat 50% morale heal anyday

[Mysterion]

Sounds good to me. The debuffs are pretty crippling. As others have said, I hope it is affected by incoming healing.

[thunderchickn]

If affected by incoming healing -- yes. If not -- no. I would rather have a heal that is much better than half my morale for 2 minutes of debuff, being our only life saving skill.

50% of our morale is probably about 6-7k for most people fully buffed up in a group, and even less for soloers. Judging from how much damage Draigoch does and how the upcoming raid will probably be harder, I don't think that's enough. If we weren't taking more than 3-4k from big hits it would be a different story, but having our only cooldown negated by one crit is something I am not in favor of.

Why not just remove the penalties and leave the rest of it how it is? Are Wardens really viewed by the Developers as being that close to OP? If so, I'm worried.

EDIT: Didn't mean to come across snarky, thanks for looking into helping the class a little bit. I just think nerfing our only cooldown (in terms of potency not convenience) will only compound the problem.

[Osolep]

The 50% heal would trigger every time they drop below 10% morale for those 5 minutes or just once?

Secondly, 5 mins of not dying? You're gonna make Cappys sad.

He means just once and the skill is triggered. That would be OP if you could not die for five minutes.

I like it. I did not like being crippled, through the lack of masteries usage and Hots loosing there ticks, and did not use it because of this. If there was a return of power as well than I would love this skill even more.

Thanks Orion

[Solyaris]

I think its a good idea! Its still nothing like pledge, but I think the changes will make it more usefull!

[Protoss360]

Perfect as the old way, with the debuff we sometimes rather die than receive the debuff penalty. Also can you give us feedback if you have decided to move our outgoing healing modifier from will to might like captains?

[Orion]

It will only fire once. After that you need to wait out the cooldown.

[Orion]

Finally, Orion. We've been writing about the importance of masteries and the crippling NS debuff since its introduction.


Now if you also decouple the Masteries from WotW and make them trainable skills in the Lvl20-50 range to give this class an acceptable learning curve for beginners, there's reason to have hope for this class again.

This is not happening.

[Faithbringer]

Sounds like an excellent proactive oh-#### button. I like it.

[geoboy]

This is not happening.

LoL. No wiggle room for interpretation?

[Mysterion]

Why not just remove the penalties and leave the rest of it how it is? Are Wardens really viewed by the Developers as being that close to OP? If so, I'm worried.

I agree, leave the skill as is (I like the threshold at 5% too btw) and just remove the debuff. Now if I pop the skill I beg that the healers don't let me hit the threshold. I guess with the debuff gone it won't be as big of a deal.

I've been worried for awhile now too.

[Orion]

Should have clarified this earlier 50% Morale and 50% power.

[Liltaro]

LoL. No wiggle room for interpretation?

They never surrender.

[Mysterion]

This is not happening.

Hilarious!

[Krazus]

Unsure. Pretty sure the Cooldown is way too big.
Gonna have to check the Cooldowns on Guards and Champs OH-#### buttons...

Remember, you are not trying to make us "subpar" tanks. You are trying to make us Maintanks on the same level as Guards.

[Tartartart]

This is not happening.

So you're saying there is a chance?



:P

[grinko.at]

This is not happening.

Why? What is the thought process on this?

Warden players essentially have to re-learn their class in the levels 50-60, and learn to build all their rotations for DPS and tanking around mastery cooldowns. No other class has such a sudden playstyle change that late, and these absolutely fundamental skills are now locked behind a legendary trait that is not exactly easy to acquire for beginners.
Just look at the statistics - how many endgame Wardens don't have WotW slotted?



Anyway, I remember how adamant both Graalx2 and you were about the NS debuff, and now you finally remove it for good. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed.