Update 6: Developer Diary Feedback: Instance Finder

[Celestrata]

Instance Finder was a feature that was released in Update 5 and we’ve been busy making updates and improvements to it for Update 6. Read more in the latest Developer Diary from Leo "Ransroth" Zelevinsky and post your comments here!

[Goribeard]

Looks good...

I was wondering about how you were going to handle un-scalable instances, now I know

[DancesInTrees]

Looks pretty good - certainly much better than the U5 version!
Search & filter options were near top of my wish list for it so that's certainly good.
(Now please add the ability to see who is still inside when I'm trying to start the new one! and make it easier to force-close the old one.)

I believe there was mention of including Reflecting Pool functionality in this too - has this actually happened? It doesn't appear to be mentioned in the dev diary.

[Alcaniel]

The U6 changes look very good, I'm happy!

[Gedachtnis]

Solid upgrades to the system.

It would be interesting if the Simple (PUG) Tab gave a slightly increased bonus, required a Holy Trinity style group make-up, and allowed both T1 and T2 to be chosen. Something along those lines would be an incentive for some to actually PUG a bit more through the IF when Kin runs are slow. Another nice feature under the Simple Tab would be some indicator of Queue times for the different roles allowing people with alts to hop on a toon which will get a group going faster.

[doubles84]

The diary said nothing about group class criteria for 3 mans. Specifically the Isen 3 mans. You NEED a healer for those and more times than not I am thrown in with 2 dps as my tanking guardian. This simply does not work and needs to change. Can you please address this issue? As it is, NOONE on my server uses IF, because of this specific issue. You can queue for 3+ hours easily on my small server and never see a single group. Until this is addressed people will continue NOT using IF for 3 mans.

[hucklebarry]

IMHO the single biggest reason for a tool like this is to be able to queue for many different styles and types of instances. With non-scaling instances not being a part of this still, I'm not very excited about the changes. As I mentioned at U5, I felt that feature should have been the baseline... looks like it may be the last feature to make it in.

Nice to see it improve, but I'm guessing the next update after this will be many months away (Rohan?).

Tried IF on live last night. Server was pretty busy. Picked any 3 or 6 man Isen at T2. Finally logged out after 15 minutes. I think this will be the case until ALL the functionality is in place.

[D3-Rook]

Re: select all

If I have filtered the selection, by for example selecting offensive instances, and then press select all it should only select instances in the that category.

Otherwise looks great.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

I believe there was mention of including Reflecting Pool functionality in this too - has this actually happened? It doesn't appear to be mentioned in the dev diary.

Oh good point! They did mention that once upon a time... What happened to it?

[ScionofAngmar]

Looks good! Question: what are the default loot rules set to upon beginning an instance through IF?

[Netron]

The diary said nothing about group class criteria for 3 mans. Specifically the Isen 3 mans. You NEED a healer for those and more times than not I am thrown in with 2 dps as my tanking guardian. This simply does not work and needs to change. Can you please address this issue? As it is, NOONE on my server uses IF, because of this specific issue. You can queue for 3+ hours easily on my small server and never see a single group. Until this is addressed people will continue NOT using IF for 3 mans.

I remembe I did read in one of the patches that was fixed,when was last time you tried?

[Ransroth]

I believe there was mention of including Reflecting Pool functionality in this too - has this actually happened? It doesn't appear to be mentioned in the dev diary.

We are considering removing Reflecting Pools and subsuming their functionality in Instance Finder, but it isn't something that we did for Update 6.

The diary said nothing about group class criteria for 3 mans. Specifically the Isen 3 mans. You NEED a healer for those and more times than not I am thrown in with 2 dps as my tanking guardian.

From the Update 5.1 Release Notes: Instance Finder: 3-player groups formed by Instance Finder for the following kinds of encounters now require both a healer *and* a tank: Skirmishes on tier 3, other instances on tier 2

Looks good! Question: what are the default loot rules set to upon beginning an instance through IF?

I'm pretty sure they are same as before - Round Robin with Roll/Pass, with Uncommon as the threshold.

Now you can vote to change them to whatever is wanted by the group.

[Derim]

I'm pretty sure they are same as before - Round Robin with Roll/Pass, with Uncommon as the threshold.

Now you can vote to change them to whatever is wanted by the group.

So if one person in the fellowship press "no" it stays as it was before the vote? Is that correct?

[Ghosttaker]

Question...I saw in the diary that matching ppl from different servers for instances was way out on the radar.

As it relates to pvmp has there been any thought to that, allowing groups to match up on the same server for instanced type cage match fights?

Is it on the radar anywhere?

[RJFerret]

Two questions, first, is the penalty preventing re-use of the Instance Finder for a time still in place, if someone bails on an instance it forces onto them, that they don't want to do?

(Yes, I understand you can opt out by accepting reward penalties, but nobody does that.)

It makes it hard to play the game now, trying to get into an instance, having to wait until the timer is up to try again, and again, etc.

Second, what happens in the case of a tie vote for ejection or loot rule, and what are the ramifications of abstaining from selecting yes or no in a vote?



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

[Ransroth]

So if one person in the fellowship press "no" it stays as it was before the vote? Is that correct?

Yes. Unanimous votes are required to make changes (with the exception of votes-to-dismiss don't ask the potential dismissee).

Two questions, first, is the penalty preventing re-use of the Instance Finder for a time still in place, if someone bails on an instance it forces onto them, that they don't want to do?

Yes.

If there are some instances you don't want to do, you can now deselect them when queuing originally.

Second, what happens in the case of a tie vote for ejection or loot rule, and what are the ramifications of abstaining from selecting yes or no in a vote?

Even a single "No" is enough to scuttle the vote. Abstaining is equivalent to selecting "No".

[Saelyth]

ransroth, i love the work you are doing, but mostly the use for the instance finder would be to join groups willing to do non-scalable content. That groups are hard to find since they are not in the cap. If we want to do the cap content there's always 50 groups doing that stuff in glff channels.

So... i'm sorry, but the unability to find groups for non-scalable instances it's a fail (unless i missunderstood the developer diary).

Besides that, i hope the UI could be more friendly. A list of instances is not precisaly perfect. if this could be something like a specific map for instances would be better to select exactly the ones you want, they'd be always in the same position. (Same as equipment in our character pannel, we always know where it's the necklace, for example. That kind of visual static place, aka "map".)

To add a final comment, i hope this is version 2.0 of Instance finder, meaning that we will get a version 3.0 with Rohan.

Sidenote/Suggestion: A tooltip when hover on each instance with this information:
Questpack needed to join.
It's a 3-man, 6-man, Raid.
Location deed needed to enter. (Red if u didn't find it. green if already found)

This could totally answer a lot of the newbies questions we'd have when U6 lands in live and the long time used join pannel dissapear.

[Derim]

Yes. Unanimous votes are required to make changes (with the exception of votes-to-dismiss don't ask the potential dismissee).

So how often can you vote for something and can you vote on the same thing again during the instance?

What I mean is if I say No to something, ex changing the loot rule, then 5 min later can they ask the same thing again and again until the instance is over or until I change my vote to yes?

[Zombielord]

Regarding:
http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdia...finder-rewards


Not sure about the "On Skirmish Dailies" section ... So does that mean they're only adding a new form of daily reward?
For some reason I keep reading that the weekly bonus box is getting replaced by this new feature.


The other improvements are clever, but still far from making the IF more useful: Not really excited.

[doubles84]

From the Update 5.1 Release Notes: Instance Finder: 3-player groups formed by Instance Finder for the following kinds of encounters now require both a healer *and* a tank: Skirmishes on tier 3, other instances on tier 2

Interesting, as I was auto grouped into a 3 champ pits group last week. I suppose the testers in your offices believe this content is doable on t1 without a healer? You must have some very skilled players, because Pits, Unleashed, Fangorn are not doable without a healer on t1.

You need to fix this. As it is STILL broken.

[Silverangel]

I like the unanimous vote. In WoW, I was annoyed when people got kicked without my vote being needed. I am a tolerant, friendly type. On the other hand, this unanimous thing will be trouble sometimes. I'm sure you've already thought of these scenarios though and can anticipate some complaints.

Overall looks great! Looking forward to this update!

[Vilan]

I'm not sure if this was explained elsewhere, but... why is it that instance finder can link people up to scalable instances but not non-scalable ones? I would think that non-scalable would be easier to program for, since there's no need to calculate the average of player's levels and try to assign a value that works for everyone. If you're running Grand Stair, just need 6 people queued up, fire them into it, done. No fuss no muss. Is it just that the non-scalable ones are mostly older instances that Turbine didn't think were played much and so they won't worry about them until later?

[Moefaux]

Interesting, as I was auto grouped into a 3 champ pits group last week. I suppose the testers in your offices believe this content is doable on t1 without a healer? You must have some very skilled players, because Pits, Unleashed, Fangorn are not doable without a healer on t1.

You need to fix this. As it is STILL broken.

T1 Fangorn is very much doable without a healer. I've done it as an RK without needing to heal at all.

After you kill the first boss (which shouldn't need a healer), run back up the hill you originally came down to fight at the 4th Huorn. There's a rock that you can fall down onto and for the most part be ignored by the swarms of adds that will come. It's not perfect, sometimes you'll get the random aggro, but for the most part, you're safe. When the fire trolls spawn, have your tank pick up as many adds as can to kite around - they shouldn't need much in the way of healing if he's traited/geared well enough. The Damage dealers are now in a DPS race to take down the trolls one-at-a-time before they take down the ents. Honestly, healing in this stage is far too dangerous, as the adds will swarm healers just for healing. If the DDs die, they should respawn and get back to the fight ASAP - if you cleared the path, the invisible walls should be down, so you can just run up the path to get back quick. If the tank dies, he should probably get some better gear. If the ents die, the fight resets back to when you beat the first boss.

[camenecium]

I played around with the UI a little on Bullroarer and overall like the changes. Very curious to see how the social features play out in the wild; i.e., voting.

Visually it seems a little cramped, the Specific tab in particular; a bigger default panel would be fine by me. I first saw it pop up for the second tutorial skirmish and was a little confused. I don't know if the quest text made it clearer since I clicked though, thinking that I knew what came next. I didn't!

Search is appreciated anywhere you put it. More search boxes elsewhere in the UI please!

My big concern about Instance Finder remains getting people into and comfortable with it. Something like the skirmish tutorials to get people into it a few times would be great. It's not a guarantee that if you build it, they will come.

[doubles84]

T1 Fangorn is very much doable without a healer. I've done it as an RK without needing to heal at all.

After you kill the first boss (which shouldn't need a healer), run back up the hill you originally came down to fight at the 4th Huorn. There's a rock that you can fall down onto and for the most part be ignored by the swarms of adds that will come. It's not perfect, sometimes you'll get the random aggro, but for the most part, you're safe. When the fire trolls spawn, have your tank pick up as many adds as can to kite around - they shouldn't need much in the way of healing if he's traited/geared well enough. The Damage dealers are now in a DPS race to take down the trolls one-at-a-time before they take down the ents. Honestly, healing in this stage is far too dangerous, as the adds will swarm healers just for healing. If the DDs die, they should respawn and get back to the fight ASAP - if you cleared the path, the invisible walls should be down, so you can just run up the path to get back quick. If the tank dies, he should probably get some better gear. If the ents die, the fight resets back to when you beat the first boss.

Thank you for running through a fight I know quite well, but you skipped over the fight that requires heals. As a guardian with the BEST gear available in game, I find it hard to believe the first boss requires no healer, at least for that class. Even swapping to my draigoch set for Warriors Fortitude and back to my orthanc set for pledge cooldown reduction, I could not keep myself up through the whole thing. And even so, are your arguing that this is ideal or even acceptable situation for instance finder class criteria? This is t1 remember. The majority of players will be using t1, and they most likely will NOT be geared well enough. That is why t1 exists.

I notice you did not mention the other two 3 mans. Should we ignore this issue because you have done one of the three instances without a healer? This needs to change.