Dev Roll Call

[cdq1958]

@Delaney, Well, I have not been here as long as you have, but, for me the communication that I have had with Turbine has been among the best of all of the software developers that I have had the opportunity to do beta testing with, over a period of some 20 years. I am well aware of NDAs and lawyers. I have probably had more than my fair share of dealing with lawyers. Sometimes what lawyers tell their clients to do, particularly corporate, result in more customer ill will than gets admitted to or even recognized. I do understand where the lawyers come from. What you don't say cannot be held against you in a court of law.

[Damojo]

It's a two-way street, the userbase have to play their part too. If polite, constructive discourse is desired, then more evidence of such from the userbase would be helpful. I imagine the dialogue on Palantir is far more evident and constructive, but then on Palantir you are required to be polite and act like a grown up, not have a tantrum, start petitions, call for the sacking of devs and announcing you will leave the game with all 3000 of your end-game raiding kinship (VIP's all) because you don't like <feature>.

If you were a dev, would you be more likely to respond (and react, for that matter) to

"<feature> is causing me real issues, I'm sure I'm not in a minority here, this causes problems with my gameplay and worsens the class for the following reasons......"

or

"chimps....incompetent....sack ed...idiot..blind.....never play the game.....leaving.....not one more cent... cash grab...greedy...<other mmo> is a million times better". I don't see this as "banter", banter to me is friendly, challenging, humorous, not an insulting rant.

Once the discussion is done, the next thing we have to understand is that "No" sometimes means just that. Just because we wanted <feature> to be implemented in a certain way, or for a certain cost, or in a certain timescale, or in a fashion we somehow inferred from a previous post or release, does not give us the right to have it that way. That's life, unfortunately. And sometimes we just can't have things the way we want them. We may think a certain thing would be a brilliant addition to the game, Turbine may disagree. That's their right.

Anything we get from Turbine and the devs needs to be treated at face value, including the absence of news. Maybe, just maybe, we have heard nothing about <feature> recently because there is no news. This does not necessarily mean it is being ignored, or swept under the rug. It just means there's no news. Do we really want a weekly or monthly post from a dev saying "<feature> is on our list, we are looking at it" a thousand times over for everything that has been mentioned on the forums? Such a list, I suggest, would be a waste of everyone's time.

And finally, we need to understand that sometimes we just can't be in the loop for certain things, and deal with it. There are all sorts of good, valid reasons why certain things are not pre-announced or trailed, there doesn't need to be a conspiracy theory for each. When dealing with companies, some things are confidential.

Like I say, a two-way street.

[Rainothon]

Some devs are more vocal than others for a variety of reasons (and yes, sometimes roles shift over time). For instance, we all have different tasks to handle and different personalities, which certainly influences our forum presence. I don't always have much to say because I can't spill the beans on unannounced work. However, I visit the forum daily because I want to know what is important to the players. Lack of comments does not mean we're not around... watching you...

In response to the OP and those interested, I'm not exactly an old timer (though my first experience playing LOTRO was during early alpha). I joined the LOTRO world team in early 2012 after working here as QA. My primary dev work so far is in the Wold division of Rohan (landscaping, towns, monster camps) with lots of new stuff in the works--I'm building things like every day! Really! It's gonna be super neat! Doh, did I just promise that?

A .... promise?!?! High esteem from me for sheer Bravery!

[Rainothon]

Did not know this. I don't cook much! I'll just stick to the kiddie lunch box 'cookbook' I just bought... for myself. Star-shaped sammiches and safety!

And thanks for the welcomes from several of you

mental note 1: don't have too high expectations if Drachyn ever writes a Developer Update on cooking in LOTRO Westemnet Bree Sandwich anyone?

mental note 2: expect the unexpected fire, flames, burns and collateral damage, should Drachyn overhaul any fire-based LM skills.

[Berephon]

From your perspective as a player, who is your favorite dev?

Not me (and I'm certainly not going to play favorites on the forums! )

[Celestrata]

You really don't want to throw water onto an oil fire. Trust me. Did that as a teenager when what I was attempting to cook caught on fire in the pan, nearly torched the house.

I've since learned to smother said thing which has caught on fire I'm attempting to cook.

And now we all know why I dive for cover when I go to Rock's house and he tries to cook. =P

[RockX]

Not me (and I'm certainly not going to play favorites on the forums! )

It's totally the person who makes the rewards for your content. Right? Riiiight?

[RockX]

And now we all know why I dive for cover when I go to Rock's house and he tries to cook. =P

Also this is true. She's seen me cook. It's scary.

[Deviled_Egg]

Also this is true. She's seen me cook. It's scary.

I really wanna see this now. Perhaps whilst wearing some protective gear

[Armitas]

I really wanna see this now. Perhaps whilst wearing some protective gear

^ don't know if you get my mails but you are doing a great job on the cappy! Glad to have you on the team keep up the good work.

It's good to be refreshed that you are all lurking. IMO this game is the best around. I love it, it's my homepage.

[Ayrolen]

I really wanna see this now. Perhaps whilst wearing some protective gear

Can I request that you change your forum name? It makes me hungry EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I see you post. I mean, come on. Berephon? Nope - not hungry. Rockx? Nope - no yummy rumbles here. BUT OMG DEVILED EGGS.

Also, this: http://www.tvspots.tv/video/6916/mov...--DEVILED-EGGS

[Maxal]

I am glad to see some of the Devs post here. But as stated before by other old timers like me, it is a dangerous place to write anything.

Back before the game was launched, the Devs where on the forums everyday discussing lore, locations, mobs, drops, mechanics, how toons looked, walked and ran and more. That was needed as the game had not been released to the public and did not have a history.

But with every xpac or change to the game (i.e. f2p) the community has gotten more and more hostile to the Devs. One wrong word in a post or one word that could be interpreted to mean what "I" wish it to mean and the community is all over the Dev that was trying to communicate.

I do not blame the Devs for not posting. As long as they read that is all I wish to know. As this thread shows that is true. Besides how many threads on flying mounts, open pvp and <insert favorite issue here> can you read? I mean I do not even bother to answer those with an /unsigned anymore as it is just boring.

We may no longer have direct access to the Devs like in closed beta but they are here and that is the important issue.

From a marketing perspective, I agree a little more communications would be great. Concept art or Screen shots from the new raids, concept drawing from the next xpac, even a town hall meeting would be nice.

Yet after running a fairly large marketing department I know how difficult and costly these things are to do. I had my team set up and run Regional Distributor meetings. The first president loved them but the second hated the one and only he atteneded. In his defense he joined the company during a downturn in the market so his questions were a lot harder to answer. Needless to say I had several with my first president and only one with the second.

So I do not blame the Devs for not posting much. I do miss them but i understand they are watching and listening.

[Starbuck1771]

Some devs are more vocal than others for a variety of reasons (and yes, sometimes roles shift over time). For instance, we all have different tasks to handle and different personalities, which certainly influences our forum presence. I don't always have much to say because I can't spill the beans on unannounced work. However, I visit the forum daily because I want to know what is important to the players. Lack of comments does not mean we're not around... watching you...

In response to the OP and those interested, I'm not exactly an old timer (though my first experience playing LOTRO was during early alpha). I joined the LOTRO world team in early 2012 after working here as QA. My primary dev work so far is in the Wold division of Rohan (landscaping, towns, monster camps) with lots of new stuff in the works--I'm building things like every day! Really! It's gonna be super neat! Doh, did I just promise that?

What about already discussed issues? Help a fellow Alpha Tester out! Whats the status on housing?

[Khafar]

I don't believe I ever specifically mentioned forcing any dev to post.

It's implied, because if they both wanted to post and thought doing so was vital... they would. And those who used to post regularly would still be doing so. I've watched this pattern unfold with game developers going back to the original Baldur's Gate forums in 1996 or so. Only a small minority of developers can handle regular, long-term interaction with the gaming public. And given the way too many posters in the gaming public behave, it's a wonder that any hang around more than 6 months.

It should still also be possible for the community reps to tell us who the devs are, at least for classes...

No. If the developers want to interact with the players, they're free to do so. Dragging them out into the spotlight and giving "fans" a target to pummel whether the developers wants that role or not isn't a good idea either.

By dev-proxy would be perfectly fine.

And I think that might be a reasonable idea, where the community relations people collate questions and feedback, then ask for some sort of response to pass back at some point. This wouldn't likely be a "get your questions answered today" sort of deal most of the time, but it would open up some more communication in the other direction.

By NDA forums, I'll assume you mean the test and perhaps even the beta servers here. I've participated in both, although not in the last couple of years. I can't say it was much more heartening.

Depends. More devs participate, and do so more often (although I haven't done any of that for a few years now either). However, they pick the topics. That's part of why it's much more valuable to them - it's on-topic for what they're actually doing. It's not a "let's browbeat the devs into doing Housing upgrades" environment. That won't work on any forum.

I'll also point out that there have been numerous threads on these forums where feedback has been solicited and received, but with no response afterwards. Practically speaking, they may have served their purpose, but they also engendered no small amount of ill will.

I don't really understand this. What do you want them to say? There's absolutely zero chance that they'll tell us what they're going to do with that feedback until they're close to delivering it. This they've learned from long experience... if you aren't a complete masochist, don't talk about "futures".

Khafar

[Thorgrum]

As long as they read that is all I wish to know.

Im in this camp now, I admit my position has evolved over time. I used to desire/demand more information and frankly realized my investment was far to deep at that point. I took a large step back and reminded myself LOTRO is a vehicle for entertainment.

Id like more from them, but if they are reading the forums from time to time thats enough.

[Berephon]

Also this is true. She's seen me cook. It's scary.

Does this mean, as Bilbo would say, that you cook better than you cook (only in the opposite sense of the meanings)?

[cossieuk]

I really wanna see this now. Perhaps whilst wearing some protective gear

I am sure there are plenty of forumites that could lend you some flame-proof gear

[Cindir]

...
But with every xpac or change to the game (i.e. f2p) the community has gotten more and more hostile to the Devs. One wrong word in a post or one word that could be interpreted to mean what "I" wish it to mean and the community is all over the Dev that was trying to communicate.
...

I love how people conveniently forget the major blunders and sometimes untruths that Turbine has made. (I wrote up a few examples, but decided to not mention any of them).

Maybe that might have something to do with the community being hostile to Turbine? I rarely see posters being hostile to the Devs themselves, but then again I mostly read the general and suggestion forums. I do see a rare clueless post by someone young saying the devs are bad, but I see much more legitimate complaints. Lets just say Turbine is co-responsible. Their communications (or lack of) has not made the player base happy at times. Requests for better communications are legitimate, and usually made by people who love this game and want the game to be better.

[swattz101]

I am glad to see some of the Devs post here. But as stated before by other old timers like me, it is a dangerous place to write anything.

Back before the game was launched, the Devs where on the forums everyday discussing lore, locations, mobs, drops, mechanics, how toons looked, walked and ran and more. That was needed as the game had not been released to the public and did not have a history.

...

I do not blame the Devs for not posting. As long as they read that is all I wish to know. As this thread shows that is true. Besides how many threads on flying mounts, open pvp and <insert favorite issue here> can you read? I mean I do not even bother to answer those with an /unsigned anymore as it is just boring.

We may no longer have direct access to the Devs like in closed beta but they are here and that is the important issue.

While we may not see them here, the devs are a little more vocal on the bullroarer forums, especially during the closed betas. Of cource there is a little more structure and many of the threads are started by the devs for specific purposes.

[Nymphonic]

The devs stated that they do read the forums everyday and that's all I need to know.

[RKL]

There is Dev posting: Then there is the demand for Dev’s to constantly repost what they feel they have already made clear.

I wouldn’t constantly try to rephrase/explain something to satisfy those who cannot be satisfied.

Obviously, there is more to it than that; but to me, that attitude is a very large part of it.

[bambubambubambu]

One does not simply Summon the Devs to roll call...

You have to set out Cookys and Pie as bait!

[Elaida]

One does not simply Summon the Devs to roll call...

You have to set out Cookys and Pie as bait!

Uh, you mean to offer them enough cookies and pie, so that the next time we call, the devs will literally roll in?

[Witch0King]

I wouldnt mind if devs said what they're currently thinking about the game itself, endgame, PvMP, lags etc, (I belive this was done at the start of the new year, so no rush). They repeat saying that they're working on the problems and that is all I need to hear. Since I started playing this after it went f2p I've realised one thing, Turbine isnt what some would call fast, but they really do get their job done. It's worth the wait. Cant wait for my next toon to reach Moria so I can try the revamped version.

[bambubambubambu]

Uh, you mean to offer them enough cookies and pie, so that the next time we call, the devs will literally roll in?

Heehee...Rolly Polly Devs