T2 loot

[Geglor]

been a very active player for many years, but i must speak my mind on this... seems like every expansion the loot for t2 runs just keep getting worse dont get me wrong the kin i am a part of we love the challenge of them but after the efforts it takes to gear your toon just to run these the when you complete the raid you open the chest and nothing really good. the gear that drops is worse than what you need to just keep alive to run them. i would love to see better loot in these maybe more FA symbols for raids throw some solvents in these stuff you can use and not just the same things you get for doing a t1 run.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

My personal opinion. I get the feeling that the degradation in loot has lot to do with:

1) Turbine wants to reduce the gap between group content rewards and solo content rewards.

2) Turbine has decided to greatly lower support for group content due to a lack of users and the expense to create. Hence no classic instance cluster with Helms Deep.

3) Turbine came up with the Big Battle instance feature which does not have Tier 2 or Tier 2C. It only has the main quest and the side quests that appear. There is a money aspect to this feature. You have to buy Helms Deep to get access. Low level characters can enter these instances. Low level characters get to group with the level capped characters because it always the same instance where everybody is level capped.

4) The introduction of socketed gear has reduced the value of doing Tier 2 and Tier 2 C because the stats come from the essences.

5) Turbine wanted to monetize the essences. Hence you do not get the best essences and or the solvents by doing the Tier 2 and Tier 2C content. Turbine wants us to go to the Lotro Store to buy the materials to upgrade our essences. In order to fuel sales, the upgradable essences that everybody wants have to be available when doing something less than raid content at tier 2.

6) According to Turbine people that do the more difficult content like raids are very small portion of the customer base. Turbine wants to reward the herd by not giving a significant gear upgrade to the few people that do the more difficult content.

In summary, the 'small amount of customers' doing the more difficult content is driving all aspects of the lack of support.

[Spazzmodic]

I agree completely. One of my favorite things about LOTRO is doing group instance runs. With this most recent expansion we got slaughtered the first time we tried T2 runs. When we finally succeeded the loot drop was so pitiful I thought that it must be just random bad luck. However, now we have completed all of the runs except challenge on Lost Temple and Sari Surma, and so far have not gotten any meaningful loot. Not even decent relic boxes. I like the difficulty level of the T2 runs, but it is really disappointing to have nothing to show for the effort other than satisfaction of getting it done.

[Geglor]

My personal opinion. I get the feeling that the degradation in loot has lot to do with:

1) Turbine wants to reduce the gap between group content rewards and solo content rewards.

2) Turbine has decided to greatly lower support for group content due to a lack of users and the expense to create. Hence no classic instance cluster with Helms Deep.

3) Turbine came up with the Big Battle instance feature which does not have Tier 2 or Tier 2C. It only has the main quest and the side quests that appear. There is a money aspect to this feature. You have to buy Helms Deep to get access. Low level characters can enter these instances. Low level characters get to group with the level capped characters because it always the same instance where everybody is level capped.

4) The introduction of socketed gear has reduced the value of doing Tier 2 and Tier 2 C because the stats come from the essences.

5) Turbine wanted to monetize the essences. Hence you do not get the best essences and or the solvents by doing the Tier 2 and Tier 2C content. Turbine wants us to go to the Lotro Store to buy the materials to upgrade our essences. In order to fuel sales, the upgradable essences that everybody wants have to be available when doing something less than raid content at tier 2.

6) According to Turbine people that do the more difficult content like raids are very small portion of the customer base. Turbine wants to reward the herd by not giving a significant gear upgrade to the few people that do the more difficult content.

In summary, the 'small amount of customers' doing the more difficult content is driving all aspects of the lack of support.

but there is still more than just a small customer base who do these runs my points that i am expressing is IF they offer better items the causal player would what to do more than just have a group pull them through it is a game the reason to play is to exceed at all not be giving a first age weapon in a t1 so any old noob could have one...... and as far as the scoketed gear i made a point in saying add it to the t2 loot drop gold teal whatever give them better stats go back to making us do these runs for the better upgrades is all i am saying.

[Spazzmodic]

So there are two issues: How does Turbine make money? And How do they keep players playing?

I don't know for sure, but I suspect they make a large percentage of their money from selling TPs. So they need to have things in the store that many people want to buy. So they make solvents very rare and put them in the store. Ok, fine. The armor pieces themselves are available by grinding daily rep runs.

Why not add socketed armor drops to the T2 runs? Better yet, add armor with different stats than the vendor ones, like heavy armor with Vit, or just slightly higher base stats, like 205 might? Doesn't impact any of their current market, just has you do T2 runs instead of grinding dailies

I also don't know what the majority of people do in game. Personally I prefer running group content and have no real idea what to do with my level cap characters if I am not running instances. I do play alts, and level them up solo, for the most part. But that is due to the removal of all landscape group content, not by my choice.

It seems to me, from what I have seen, that people want to do group runs but often don't due to issues forming groups

Currently there is an imbalance between T1 12 man loot and T2 6 man loot. That has nothing to do with Turbine making money and everything to do with poorly thought out loot tables. There is an imbalance between Epic Battle loot and T2 6 man loot. The jewelry from the Battles is far superior to instance drops. The 6 man Epic Battle is so ridiculously easy it can be handled with 5 people easily and 4 people just makes it a challenge to set up barricades fast enough. And of course there is only one 6man Epic, so gets old really fast.

I can understand Turbine not adding Solvent to the loot tables, but not adding essences? That's silly considering I can solo the reflecting pool group instance that drops essences.

Oh well

[Castorix]

Why not add socketed armor drops to the T2 runs? Better yet, add armor with different stats than the vendor ones, like heavy armor with Vit, or just slightly higher base stats, like 205 might? Doesn't impact any of their current market, just has you do T2 runs instead of grinding dailies

Are you sure socketed armours don't drop in T2 raids ?
Because I got some by farming Necro T1 skraid (btw, another problem : T1 (instances, raids, skraids) are easier than in U13.1, with the scaling of characters stats > scaling of mobs stats in T1 instances => huge gap T1<=>T2, with same loot table...) and they should logically drop in T2 raids if they drop in T1 skraids.
Or they could add gold socketed armours (5 slots) (I have read in a thread they drop too, but I never seen one in game)

[Celembar]

6) According to Turbine people that do the more difficult content like raids are very small portion of the customer base.

They are a small portion of the customer base NOW, not when there was ToO and other classic raids at the level cap. If they bothered to put a bit of time into making a raid cluster, then i'm sure that that customer base would increase....

[Rognomli]

Essences DO drop from regular instances.Just yesterday we had a Purple Drop in Helegrod.They are pretty rare tho in fact so rare that I've only seen 2 drops in general.Also Essence System will get a revamp as Turbine stated anyways that they will make changes based on our feedback.What I would like to see is crafted gold options for every essence.That way Essence like BPE will stop being as redundant as they are now.

[Vulcwen]

Essences DO drop from regular instances.Just yesterday we had a Purple Drop in Helegrod.They are pretty rare tho in fact so rare that I've only seen 2 drops in general.Also Essence System will get a revamp as Turbine stated anyways that they will make changes based on our feedback.What I would like to see is crafted gold options for every essence.That way Essence like BPE will stop being as redundant as they are now.

Did they drop from the actual chest or just a mob in there? Since I have seen essences drop from mobs in instances, but never from the actual chest.

[Sunnybeamgirl]

I run t2 raids for the fun and challenge as well but would love to see an improvement in the t2c loot.

Someone mentioned that not enough people enjoy raid content, but I think there are more who do than speak up. I find that instances and raids are the most fun thing to do at level cap, but I never really understood them prior to reaching max level and running with a group. Raids and instances keep me coming back for multiple reasons and I hope that some of the powers that be might consider all of the players who don't normally speak up but enjoy group content. A periodic extra reward after finishing a t2c would be a much appreciated thing.

[Gandie2]

but there is still more than just a small customer base who do these runs my points that i am expressing is IF they offer better items the causal player would what to do more than just have a group pull them through it is a game the reason to play is to exceed at all not be giving a first age weapon in a t1 so any old noob could have one...... and as far as the scoketed gear i made a point in saying add it to the t2 loot drop gold teal whatever give them better stats go back to making us do these runs for the better upgrades is all i am saying.

I have to disagree. Making loot in t2 significantly better then t1 makes it so no one runs t1. So to allow people to do the instances on t2 they need make it easier or most people can't do it. You want a challenge. That is what you get with t2. You want loot. You get that with t1 or t2. I've never seen so many open 12 man runs of content in the history of this game as is going on now. The reason is because the loot is basically the same, but the challenge is not so great that people making a raid need make sure to only take the 'best of the best'.

Do t2c for the challenge. Do t2c because it is there and you want to be able to say you did it. Run t1 with people you liked, but never took into t2c because they simply did not play that well. Run it for the loot. Run it for the fun of it. Take people that you don't know. Take people that are undergeared. Be inclusive.

[Rognomli]

Vulcwen it dropped from the actual chest with the skraid loot inside!

[Beaniemooch]

I have to disagree. Making loot in t2 significantly better then t1 makes it so no one runs t1. So to allow people to do the instances on t2 they need make it easier or most people can't do it. You want a challenge. That is what you get with t2. You want loot. You get that with t1 or t2. I've never seen so many open 12 man runs of content in the history of this game as is going on now. The reason is because the loot is basically the same, but the challenge is not so great that people making a raid need make sure to only take the 'best of the best'.

Do t2c for the challenge. Do t2c because it is there and you want to be able to say you did it. Run t1 with people you liked, but never took into t2c because they simply did not play that well. Run it for the loot. Run it for the fun of it. Take people that you don't know. Take people that are undergeared. Be inclusive.

I do T2c for the loot. Because the effort is greater the reward should be greater. I don't give a rat's backside about "bragging rights" because all that does is have people say we are trying to be "leet" and claim we are better than them. Titles are meanings as well.

Making T2 loot better than T1 means somebody might actually run T2. Right now there's no reason to. You should run T1 to understand the fight. You should gear up to try T2, and focus on learning your class and working with others. If you can't or are unwilling to gear up and run with others while fulfilling your class role, then perhaps T2 just isn't for you - challenge or reward.

[Manulele]

I have to disagree. Making loot in t2 significantly better then t1 makes it so no one runs t1. So to allow people to do the instances on t2 they need make it easier or most people can't do it. You want a challenge. That is what you get with t2. You want loot. You get that with t1 or t2. I've never seen so many open 12 man runs of content in the history of this game as is going on now. The reason is because the loot is basically the same, but the challenge is not so great that people making a raid need make sure to only take the 'best of the best'.

Do t2c for the challenge. Do t2c because it is there and you want to be able to say you did it. Run t1 with people you liked, but never took into t2c because they simply did not play that well. Run it for the loot. Run it for the fun of it. Take people that you don't know. Take people that are undergeared. Be inclusive.

I don't want people unable to listen to the simplest commands and requests in a t2 run, nor undergeared people getting one shotted. That's not because I want to be mean, but because they're useless for the group, a burden and just another body to heal.
You have to know your class and be fairly good geared to do one of those runs. You deserve better rewards. If you can't access those requisites, go grinding gears, learn how to play instead of facerolling and try again.
The reason why people are running t1s raids are the FA dropping from OD, like Turbine never learns from past mistakes. Battle for Erebor, anybody remembers that?
And no, I don't think the t2 runs should be significantly better then t1, but still SLIGHTLY better. I don't want a first age weapon already filled with relics, but I don't want a worse loot then a t2 3 man dropping from a raid. That's just ########. And the problems started with their new loot system, which everybody hates and which can't be fixed because they don't know how to do it (that's what I read in a thread, talking about double goldies and such), going just worse as level cap increases, since they keep adding lower and lower variability in gears, having all of them just the same stats and some ###### secondary. Where are the incoming healing and mitigations on those pieces, missing since level 85? Where's the sweet taste of getting a rare piece off a hard raid? I'm not saying all t2s should have better drops, but God sake, raids at least! I want the same system we had in Orthanc, those rewards were epic.

[Castorix]

I don't want people unable to listen to the simplest commands and requests in a t2 run, nor undergeared people getting one shotted. That's not because I want to be mean, but because they're useless for the group, a burden and just another body to heal.
You have to know your class and be fairly good geared to do one of those runs. You deserve better rewards. If you can't access those requisites, go grinding gears, learn how to play instead of facerolling and try again.
The reason why people are running t1s raids are the FA dropping from OD, like Turbine never learns from past mistakes. Battle for Erebor, anybody remembers that?
And no, I don't think the t2 runs should be significantly better then t1, but still SLIGHTLY better. I don't want a first age weapon already filled with relics, but I don't want a worse loot then a t2 3 man dropping from a raid. That's just ########. And the problems started with their new loot system, which everybody hates and which can't be fixed because they don't know how to do it (that's what I read in a thread, talking about double goldies and such), going just worse as level cap increases, since they keep adding lower and lower variability in gears, having all of them just the same stats and some ###### secondary. Where are the incoming healing and mitigations on those pieces, missing since level 85? Where's the sweet taste of getting a rare piece off a hard raid? I'm not saying all t2s should have better drops, but God sake, raids at least! I want the same system we had in Orthanc, those rewards were epic.

Exactly.
And I still don't understand why they have completely broken the U9/U10 loot tables, with class gold items too, which were very good and highly varied (names, stats)
A user named Eggolass had done a fantastic work on Wiki (U9, U10, ...)

[Rognomli]

I thought it was already clear enough to everybody that Turbine just wants to give everything to everyone easily.I'm glad people are being vocal about all these tho.Keep going with all these great suggestions I just hope they implement them.Which is not even suggestions.We had the good loot tables.We had the challenging runs.It all just went to hell since the new expansion and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.Also in regards to OD is anybody left who believes that "it's just a mistake"?I mean 1 time is a mistake 2nd time is an accident...but going on more than 3 times is just plain intentional.Making items of great value available to people at the expense of no effort whatsoever takes a lot of fun out the game and any sense of accomplishment that goes with completing something challenging.It has been pointed out in many other threads by a lot of people and I'm only saying this because it looks like this thread's posts are resembling those seen elsewhere,If you DON'T raid then you don't need raid gear.Or the best gear in the game for that matter.Each item serves it's own purpose in the game and it's very simple.It's like I'm asking to raise my music by raiding or my fishing by raiding just because I don't like fishing.FIX loot tables and make everyone's time worth a damn.Wasting hours of training and experimentation into doing hard T2 raids and getting the same piece of generic penetration X item that Sambrog has been yielding for the past gizzilion farms is absolutely insulting to anybody wasting enough time to play the content.

[Produktion Malphunktion]

Itemization is on the very short list to fix over the next few updates.

I like loot too.

[dselden]

Itemization is on the very short list to fix over the next few updates.

I like loot too.

That's good to hear

[Arnenna]

I agree completely. One of my favorite things about LOTRO is doing group instance runs. With this most recent expansion we got slaughtered the first time we tried T2 runs. When we finally succeeded the loot drop was so pitiful I thought that it must be just random bad luck. However, now we have completed all of the runs except challenge on Lost Temple and Sari Surma, and so far have not gotten any meaningful loot. Not even decent relic boxes. I like the difficulty level of the T2 runs, but it is really disappointing to have nothing to show for the effort other than satisfaction of getting it done.

Getting them done, would be priority for many players, and reward in itself.

[Rognomli]

Itemization is on the very short list to fix over the next few updates.

That is indeed very good to hear

[Vulcwen]

Itemization is on the very short list to fix over the next few updates.

I like loot too.

Great, now the question, what's the new design concept? And is there room for discussion?

[Giliodor]

Itemization is on the very short list to fix over the next few updates.

I like loot too.

Does this mean that we'll have a different kind of jewellery/armour? Like pre-HD. Because everything looks the same nowadays.

[FyreBrand]

Itemization is on the very short list to fix over the next few updates.

I like loot too.

The thing is we ALL like loot, and nice loot. Please don't go back to locking all the nice loot behind content that less than 10% of the players get to see unless they buy it for gold. I want to adventure and earn my progression, not buy it from someone else. I don't want my progression held hostage to a raid group and one person making decisions about who gets to gear up first, or at all.

[RavenPrince16]

Itemization is on the very short list to fix over the next few updates.

I like loot too.

I hope you mean marks/medallion rewards as well.. The effort it takes for the rewards given is pretty bad.. Currently, starting from scratch it's a horrible grind to acquire medallions in a decent time/manner.. GB Sambrog gives more medallions than T2 content currently.. Fornost t2 is actually decent as well but in the end it's most efficient to grind the most boring instance ever just for medallions/rewards.. When you have multiple alts trying to gear legendary items it is a very horrendous grind for us. :\

[Shau'nac]

The thing is we ALL like loot, and nice loot. Please don't go back to locking all the nice loot behind content that less than 10% of the players get to see unless they buy it for gold. I want to adventure and earn my progression, not buy it from someone else. I don't want my progression held hostage to a raid group and one person making decisions about who gets to gear up first, or at all.

Why does someone that doesn't want to run the raid deserve the raid loot? Even so now loot is dispersed automatically, I'm sure some groups may attempt to dkp it, but that seems silly now.