Dadi's Guide to Imbuement

[Dadislotroguides]

G'day Dadi,
Many thanks for the time and effort you've put into this, much like the walkthrough for HD back in the day.

If I'm reading this right, Imbuing my FA will result in a weapon close to or on par with what it currently is, along with the ability for it to grow stronger as I continue to play regardless of the current lvl cap.

The lagacy swap, with mithril coins only at this point is an appreciated "heads up".

One thing I have learnt playing lotro for the last 5 years is, don't jump straight in. Personally I'll hold off on Imbuing till after the standard "hotfix" which is what... 2-3 weeks after the update? But having an idea of what is to come, is as I said very much appreciated.

Once again, many thanks mate.

Correct about the LI being on par/slightly better (with just IXP) and definitely better with Scrolls of Empowerment + IXP.

The legacy swap will likely be addressed and a mechanism in place that does not require Mithril Coins.

Jumping right in can have its benefits and drawbacks.

[Macroscian]

Yeah, it seems like the exact same SoE grind is still there, which is complete BS.

The LI system needs to be completely unlockable through a REASONABLE amount of time investment per character, as we're effectively dealing with something that is as crucial for your character as the trait trees themselves. This is something that needs not be this monumental grind, because it's deterring people from playing alts, which is the exact opposite of what you want people to do in an MMO.

I mean, why is Turbine making this into a worse grind than the original LIs? From what I am gathering, it seems the optimal path to save you A LOT of expense after imbuing an LI is to have ground out the LI to perfect condition prior to imbuing. This completely defeats the point of the revamped system, which should (in the long run) help cut down the amount of grind associated with the LIs, not turn the grind up from 10 to 30.

Otherwise, what's the point of screwing with the LI system? If they're gonna make it worse, leave it alone and focus resources on something that actually improves quality of life for the players.

And for the love of the Valar, don't try to sell us something as an "improvement" when it's really a worse grind than what we already have.

Thank you for your reply!

What I mainly don't understand is why there will be two separate systems? One will allow us to do what was previously deemed 'too complicated' in order to make IXP and get relics outside instances and the other is needed because...more DPS is needed? (I know, a bit flippant.)

What I would instead have enjoyed in a new LI system would be some balance with bonuses for /played time on your character and class. No need for big jumps on DPS based on how much game gold you have or how many DA barter tokens you can get. Perhaps a new look on an LI for a character with a month /played? An additional legendary title applied after 6 months /played? One extra legacy slot open after a year /played? Something that grows with us. Not neccesarily big DPS changes, just little extras.

Two separate systems really changes nothing at all, just adds to the confusion.

[Dadislotroguides]

Thank you for your reply!

What I mainly don't understand is why there will be two separate systems? One will allow us to do what was previously deemed 'too complicated' in order to make IXP and get relics outside instances and the other is needed because...more DPS is needed? (I know, a bit flippant.)

What I would instead have enjoyed in a new LI system would be some balance with bonuses for /played time on your character and class. No need for big jumps on DPS based on how much game gold you have or how many DA barter tokens you can get. Perhaps a new look on an LI for a character with a month /played? An additional legendary title applied after 6 months /played? One extra legacy slot open after a year /played? Something that grows with us. Not neccesarily big DPS changes, just little extras.

Two separate systems really changes nothing at all, just adds to the confusion.

If they do not go back and introduce imbuing for levels 45-99 then yes, we will have 2 systems. And you are correct, it will be confusing for some when they hit 100. However, by that time there will be many good write-ups and walkthroughs out there.

[Almagnus1]

If they do not go back and introduce imbuing for levels 45-99 then yes, we will have 2 systems. And you are correct, it will be confusing for some when they hit 100. However, by that time there will be many good write-ups and walkthroughs out there.

Why should the community compensate for a failure in game design?

Why not fix this failure before it hits Live?

[Solastrion]

The legacy swap will likely be addressed and a mechanism in place that does not require Mithril Coins.

Aye no doubt.

Jumping right in can have its benefits and drawbacks.

True, though I'm still smarting over the reduction in Meds and Marks for the Anfalas Scrolls last time I jumped in too fast.

[Leopoldio]

TYVM for great work !!!

Just one request: when they release it, please update it If you add list of changed legacies i'll love you forever !
And ofcs let us know its updated <3

[dstini]

Have you heard this somewhere that you can quote? Could very well be true, but what is the source?

I can't see it happening because the costs to get them maxed are trivial. I used a level 60 healing club on my mini for ages because I generally didn't need to DPs while healing and it cost absolutely nothing to max.

[Dadislotroguides]

TYVM for great work !!!

Just one request: when they release it, please update it If you add list of changed legacies i'll love you forever !
And ofcs let us know its updated <3

I will absolutely continue to update it throughout Beta releases (I am currently putting the date of last revision at the top) and then finalize it for Live. It will be posted on the main forums for all to use.

[Dadislotroguides]

True, though I'm still smarting over the reduction in Meds and Marks for the Anfalas Scrolls last time I jumped in too fast.

Absolutely, me too ! I will be watching the currency changes throughout the Beta builds very closely. If there are no changes, I will be hesitant at live launch to dive right in too.

[Obion]

I wouldn't mind the Imbue thing if my legendaries start off at minimum same as they are pre-imbuement.
If I want them stronger I can start using IXP runes, in order to get them even more powerful and grow further I could use those Anfalas scrolls.
That way I could have my legendaries grow with me and be enhanced as I slowly get barter coins for more scrolls and IXP runes.

If my legendary things are less powerful after imbuement, and I have to spend loads of in-game barter items or RL money just to get them back to pre-imbuement. Then the incentive is a bit lost to me.

And thank you for the nice guide. Very well written.

[dstini]

I wouldn't mind the Imbue thing if my legendaries start off at minimum same as they are pre-imbuement.
If I want them stronger I can start using IXP runes, in order to get them even more powerful and grow further I could use those Anfalas scrolls.
That way I could have my legendaries grow with me and be enhanced as I slowly get barter coins for more scrolls and IXP runes.

If my legendary things are less powerful after imbuement, and I have to spend loads of in-game barter items or RL money just to get them back to pre-imbuement. Then the incentive is a bit lost to me.

And thank you for the nice guide. Very well written.

It sounds like that's going to be the case.

But yeah personally, I don't even care if it takes some time as long as I won't have to do it again. That's kind of the point too. It's an investment, but one that actually pays off aside from the piddly iexp that you get now.

[Hurin]

But yeah personally, I don't even care if it takes some time as long as I won't have to do it again. That's kind of the point too. It's an investment, but one that actually pays off aside from the piddly iexp that you get now.

But of course we will have to "do it again". . . we won't be destroying the LI like we have been doing. But every time Turbine judges the time to be right, we will suddenly get another 10 "unlockable" tiers per legacy that will require Scrolls of Empowerment (etc.). And of course, the fear is that the criteria for when the "time is right" will be based upon revenue needs rather than what would normally constitute good and compelling game design principles.

The system is definitely improved in that we won't have to seek out the proper legacies anymore, and reforge, etc. But there's really no functional difference in how much grinding there will be.

It was naive of people to think that Turbine would just dismantle one heavily monetized game system and replace it with a less-monetized game system. And since they make the lion's share of their revenue by selling grind avoidance, it's naive to think that this system won't be just as grind-intensive going into the future. The "resetting treadmill" of the original design is still there. But, without the need to repeatedly destroy our LIs outright, the grind isn't so starkly exposed.

To say nothing of the fact that this also fits nicely into Turbine's interests for allowing us to continue to spend money on our now ever-advancing LIs in a game world where the level cap no longer seems to be increasing. Level capped folks had stagnant LIs. Now that's no longer the case. Ta da!

[Scirocco]

But of course we will have to "do it again". . . we won't be destroying the LI like we have been doing. But every time Turbine judges the time to be right, we will suddenly get another 10 "unlockable" tiers per legacy that will require Scrolls of Empowerment (etc.). And of course, the fear is that the criteria for when the "time is right" will be based upon revenue needs rather than what would normally constitute good and compelling game design principles.

The system is definitely improved in that we won't have to seek out the proper legacies anymore, and reforge, etc. But there's really no functional difference in how much grinding there will be.

It was naive of people to think that Turbine would just dismantle one heavily monetized game system and replace it with a less-monetized game system. And since they make the lion's share of their revenue by selling grind avoidance, it's naive to think that this system won't be just as grind-intensive going into the future. The "resetting treadmill" of the original design is still there. But, without the need to repeatedly destroy our LIs outright, the grind isn't so starkly exposed.

To say nothing of the fact that this also fits nicely into Turbine's interests for allowing us to continue to spend money on our now ever-advancing LIs in a game world where the level cap no longer seems to be increasing. Level capped folks had stagnant LIs. Now that's no longer the case. Ta da!

I don't consider the 10 new unlockable tiers from 40 to 50 to be "doing it again," as long as I don't have to unlock and level the same LI up to 40 again. It's the same to me as a character level increase.

I do agree that it would be naive to expect a reduction in grind or monetization. Imbuing is an AA system that eliminates the LI destruction and replacement cycle, but we still have to work at improving our imbued LI, now and in the future.

[Almagnus1]

I don't consider the 10 new unlockable tiers from 40 to 50 to be "doing it again," as long as I don't have to unlock and level the same LI up to 40 again. It's the same to me as a character level increase.

I do agree that it would be naive to expect a reduction in grind or monetization. Imbuing is an AA system that eliminates the LI destruction and replacement cycle, but we still have to work at improving our imbued LI, now and in the future.

I think what most of us really expect is a straight up replacement of the existing system.

Something that we can tap into without really needing to mess with the existing system all that much.

This implementation isn't that, as you basically need to have a perfect 100 FA prior to imbuing, or you will never have as strong of an LI as someone you did - which is just bad design.

[Landor]

But of course we will have to "do it again". . . we won't be destroying the LI like we have been doing. But every time Turbine judges the time to be right, we will suddenly get another 10 "unlockable" tiers per legacy that will require Scrolls of Empowerment (etc.). And of course, the fear is that the criteria for when the "time is right" will be based upon revenue needs rather than what would normally constitute good and compelling game design principles.

The system is definitely improved in that we won't have to seek out the proper legacies anymore, and reforge, etc. But there's really no functional difference in how much grinding there will be.

It was naive of people to think that Turbine would just dismantle one heavily monetized game system and replace it with a less-monetized game system. And since they make the lion's share of their revenue by selling grind avoidance, it's naive to think that this system won't be just as grind-intensive going into the future. The "resetting treadmill" of the original design is still there. But, without the need to repeatedly destroy our LIs outright, the grind isn't so starkly exposed.

To say nothing of the fact that this also fits nicely into Turbine's interests for allowing us to continue to spend money on our now ever-advancing LIs in a game world where the level cap no longer seems to be increasing. Level capped folks had stagnant LIs. Now that's no longer the case. Ta da!

My bet is that with every content update they will increase the cap by 20 tiers. With 10 tiers be unlocked right away and 10 tiers being locked.

[Hurin]

I don't consider the 10 new unlockable tiers from 40 to 50 to be "doing it again," as long as I don't have to unlock and level the same LI up to 40 again. It's the same to me as a character level increase.

But you're missing the point. No, at the new system's release, those 10 are not "doing it again." But in six months when they raise the number of unlockable tiers from 40 to 50, you will indeed to be "doing it again". . . and "again" six months after that.

Same grind. Different name.

[Hurin]

This implementation isn't that, as you basically need to have a perfect 100 FA prior to imbuing, or you will never have as strong of an LI as someone you did - which is just bad design.

Explain.

(no, really, I'm genuinely puzzled. My understanding is that if I don't have a maxed out FA, I just start farther down on the ladder, but can still reach the top, as it were).

[Scirocco]

But you're missing the point. No, at the new system's release, those 10 are not "doing it again." But in six months when they raise the number of unlockable tiers from 40 to 50, you will indeed to be "doing it again". . . and "again" six months after that.

Same grind. Different name.

I get your point. But what you describe is what "growing with you" means. Same as when the character level cap was raised from 65 to 75, and then from 75 to 85, and so on. That's what character progression in an MMORPG means.

No progression? The game is dead. Might as well play a FPS or MOBA.

[Almagnus1]

Explain.

(no, really, I'm genuinely puzzled. My understanding is that if I don't have a maxed out FA, I just start farther down on the ladder, but can still reach the top, as it were).

From what I understand of the current iteration:

The number of star-lit crystals you have applied prior to imbuing will dictate the DPS range of the weapon you will work off for the rest of the process. There is no way to change this at this time.

The Tier of each legacy (the runic symbol thingy) will dictate the maximum rank you can achieve with the legacy. As far as I know, there is no way to change this at this time.

So basically, you grind the FA LI to maximum BEFORE imbuing, then imbue, and then have MORE GRIND on it.

And if I've gotten something wrong, please correct me.

[Scirocco]

Explain.

(no, really, I'm genuinely puzzled. My understanding is that if I don't have a maxed out FA, I just start farther down on the ladder, but can still reach the top, as it were).

I can't speak for him, but he is only partially correct, I think. It is true that you need to use your 3 star lit crystals before imbuing so you base DPS and passives are as high as possible. Using the crystals post imbue will only affect the main legacy, and not bump up the passives.

If he's referring to TA vs SA vs FA, then yes, the FA is clearly superior. The passives and DPS base with the FAs are worth it.

Other than that, converting a maxed out FA only gives you a good head start on reaching the hard caps. That is, a tier 6 pre imbue will start you off with a higher soft cap. Hard cap is still 40 in any case. Nothing you cannot make up for after imbuing, but more costly. I recommend getting your LI to 70 preimbue to get the tier increases, as these only require Ixp, and will save you 4 ASEs. And getting all legs to tier 6 will save you 6 or 7 ASEs, due to the tier 6 conversion bonus.

[Almagnus1]

Other than that, converting a maxed out FA only gives you a good head start on reaching the hard caps. That is, a tier 6 pre imbue will start you off with a higher soft cap. Hard cap is still 40 in any case. Nothing you cannot make up for after imbuing, but more costly.

How does applying SoE's prior to imbuing affect the soft cap? I've been doing a lot of mental math with most of the this system (hooray for RL), so haven't had much time in BR to experiment.

[Jinjaah]

The need for starlit crystals pre-imbuement is a bug we are working out internally. It probably won't make the build tomorrow, but expect it next week. The intention was never to gain an advantage on passive stats if you used crystals pre-imbuement.

-Jinjaah

[Scirocco]

How does applying SoE's prior to imbuing affect the soft cap? I've been doing a lot of mental math with most of the this system (hooray for RL), so haven't had much time in BR to experiment.

Directly additive. 25 plus the tier of the leg pre-imbue, except that you get a bonus tier if the tier preimbue is 6. You also get a tier added for all legs on the LI if you've used a scroll of delving.

So, tier 5 legs preimbue convert to soft cap 30 unlocked post imbue, while tier 6 legs convert to 32. Add 1 to these if you've used the scroll of delving. Hard cap is still 40, though, for all imbued LIs. Several folks have suggested that SAs and FAs should have higher he'd caps than TAs.

[Scirocco]

The need for starlit crystals pre-imbuement is a bug we are working out internally. It probably won't make the build tomorrow, but expect it next week. The intention was never to gain an advantage on passive stats if you used crystals pre-imbuement.

-Jinjaah

Good to know, thanks. What is the plan for handling base damage range and passives for future progression, if you can tell us yet?

[Jinjaah]

Good to know, thanks. What is the plan for handling base damage range and passives for future progression, if you can tell us yet?

I don't have a 100% solid answer yet about that. Right now the dps legacy on an imbued weapon is just raising the dps of the weapon, where in pre-imbuement it raised the whole item level of the weapon. This is also why some players are reporting odd things happening with I believe the Loremaster's Staff not increasing properly. We are currently looking into what it would take to have that legacy, post imbuement increase the item level of the weapon or if there are other options we need to consider going forward on increasing passive stats on LIs. At the very least, we want to remove the stat advantage of pre versus post imbuement. Ideally we would like that legacy to function as it did pre-imbuement. Once I have a more concrete answer, I can give y'all an update.

-Jinjaah