Feedback: The Dome of Stars (6-Man)

[ThePinion]

b3, LVL 100, T2:

5\6 (2 Hunters, Gurdian, Minstrel, Captain)


Rook

-Crebains\Adds sometimes not reset after wipe
-Sorcerers now fully reset every ~30 seconds if their target stays in range (not on the boss square). Guess, it's a bug cause in this case sorcerer removes all the defuffs\marks\dots from himself.

The Black Blade

-5.000.000 hp is a mistake i think, this fight took us ~15 minutes. Too long. Guess, you can increase puddle area and return pre-b3 HP status.
-Liked revamped boss abilities as the whole fight except its duration! Corruptions are great, but they slow down the fight a lot with such amount of boss HP.
-New Beast is much better now! (Threat drop debuff )

Overall:
Best 6-man instance after Mines Of Moria cluster
Ryan, hope you'll be designing a new raid!

Thanks for the very kind words!

I'll look into Rook's weirdness tomorrow. Today I brought the Black Blade's health back down to B2 levels - hopefully not too low, but we'll see. There's a lot going on in his fight, so it might be fine. I also added a lot of colour text and drama throughout the space, so monsters should be a bit more chatty and angry.

[Siddharta]

-Upal-keng:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFCL0l2ObTs

-Rook:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd6qJPIHMYo

Fight on this video includes bugs that i noticed before:

-2:35 - Sorcerer reset
-4:18 - Rook activated after 2 sorcerers were killed (2 more counted from the previous try). Already fixed as ThePinion said.

This is the second strategy we tested today. First one was our minstrel kiting everyone to let us just burn down sorcerers and the boss as fast as we can w\o killing any adds.
The right way to deal with sorcerers is to lower them 20k hp each and then kill. But now it's unable to do due to resets.


-The Black Blade:

Guess, this fight can be finished in 10 minutes cause we were using high-morale builds to deal with some unexpected damage and that was our 1st pull after boss revamp.
Free slot player will help too for sure

[Giliodor]

Today I brought the Black Blade's health back down to B2 levels - hopefully not too low, but we'll see.

I do believe that's a bit low. I'm not sure how much it was, but I do remember zerging him pretty hard with some random group setup (2 red captains, for example).

[ThePinion]

Some of these changes didn't make it into Beta 4, but this is what I'm working on today. Thanks for the videos, I was able to spot some other issues in there as well.

Balance changes/fixes:

-Corrupter's burst now does a 30% max health hit to everyone in range when the countdown expires.
-Shade FX doesn't get stuck on you after fighting Black-guard Constrainers anymore.
-T2 Black Blade now has roughly 4 million HP down from 5 million. [This is not in B4, but it has been changed.]
-T2 Black Blade floor shadows now do 10% max health on the first tick and 15% for every following one - changed from 10% flat.
-Easterling Sorcerer-lords now have a very light ranged attack with long range to keep them involved in combat and prevent random resets.
-Added a few more Black-guards to the Dome of Stars interior.

[infinitewhimsy]

Just pugged this. The last boss remains far too easy on T2CM. I didn't feel the adds were significant, as far as I saw they were quickly/easily dispatched, and just provide a debuff. We left Gorothul alive, 20% Tact Dmg, and called it a day. Everything in the fight seemed to die very quickly and easily, including the beast, which I outright tanked for longer than I should have been able to on Minstrel. Everything in the instance felt undermined by the Minnies healing output, and my LI weren't even completely done. I've no idea what the plague spirits did, that means they didn't do enough. Maybe have them drop pools when they die? Certainly have them hit harder or be random aggro with more of them. Or all of the above! Definitely have them keep spawning...the fight should only get harder. There comes a point, at the end, where you've jumped all the hurdles and are just waiting for it be over. Very anticlimatic.

I think upping the bosses morale and adding more mechanics, especially on the named adds is a needed change. Maybe have Gorothul do his hideous knockback from SG, Mazog do some big frontal...more mechanics rather than passive debuffs. The whole thing seemed unreasonably easy, you just kill all the adds but 1 then set it and forget it. Penalize people for that! Make them respawn...make them multiply...and make them stronger the longer they live. As is the named spirits are negligible, easy to kill, easy to ignore. Maybe add a timer? Maybe make the boss take damage instead of the Fellbeast when you attack it? The fight definitely needs "more". A Nazgul shouldn't be tank and spank.

Hey everyone, I'm going to make a thread so I can keep things organized!

I'd love any and all feedback on the Dome of Stars instance, both on Tier 1 and Tier 2. The challenge will be changing from its current incarnation, so I'll update this to include it when it's ready.


Some things to consider:

1. What did you like? What were the stand-out moments?

2. What didn't you like? Did certain parts drag?

3. What did you think of the Mûmak encounter? Did it feel well-balanced? Was it approachable on T1, and engaging as a first fight on T2?

4. What were the high and low points for the regular monsters? Did one section (Haradrim/Troll, Orc, Easterling, Animated Armour) seem too weak or too deadly?

5. What monster skills did you like? Which ones didn't you like? Did some seem too weak/too strong?



I'll edit this to include the Lord of Pinions encounter and the Black Blade encounter once I finish my initial pass on them.

Thanks everyone!

1. I enjoyed the first boss. Well rounded, reasonable fight.

2. The Pinion quest to access Rook, and then Rook himself were pretty dull. The trash was uninteresting and there was no lack of it. The boss fight needs more mechanics, there's nothing to killing the birds and then the sorcerers...other than time. More adds should spawn! Adds that do stuff. Rook himself was a simple tank and spank.

3. The Mumakil is good, on T2 at least. Can't comment on T1.

4. The Animated Armor I expected much more from. They are the end trash, and clearly more associated with the last boss...they weren't hard at all. For one thing, Distract affects them and they don't chain pull together. Some of the mobs get stuck, and none of the dots are threatening. They aren't scaled well, like 2k every 4 seconds? The damage output doesn't compare at all to the healing output/morale of Freeps. I think increase the dots, make more spirits appear that stack them (a lot more)...and have progressively more armors spawn and attack on a timer after the first pull or something (like the BG gauntlet). There was no sense of danger at all like with the Easterling Archers earlier - which actually required some coordination.

5. I liked the Archers 100% Dmg Corruptions and the Reflects later on the Warriors...the Orcs and Armor were tank and spank though. Admittedly a big part of the problem is just how overpowered the classes are, we were all bunched up for the yellow eye...or whatever...and...no-one died. Everyone instantly popped back to full health 1-2 seconds later. I think the most reasonable solution to that is adding Outgoing or Incoming Healing Debuffs.


Also...the loot seriously needs refining.

1 Morgul Crest per run...50k IXP runes...I'm not saying people won't run it....but they very quickly won't be happy to. 120 runs to get your full set of armor is not cool. I assume that means every one of the new instances give just 1...shouldn't the 6 man be differentiated somehow? Everyone will just run the quickest and easiest thing if this remains the case. It's also worth mentioning the loot on the first 2 bosses is completely not worth mentioning. If Rook is optional (I remember that being the case in one iteration)...no-one will ever run him again after they do the deed. Ever. Give more crests, drop bigger runes, include actual items on the first chests, and so forth.

[Vulcwen]

Some of these changes didn't make it into Beta 4, but this is what I'm working on today. Thanks for the videos, I was able to spot some other issues in there as well.

Balance changes/fixes:

-Corrupter's burst now does a 30% max health hit to everyone in range when the countdown expires.

I think the corrupter's burst could easily do 90% max health hit (unmitigated) on T2, on T1, I'd say 40% unmitigated would be decent. Also if Im right it's an induction.. remove that.. make that eye inevitably appear.. make it so that people need to be aware what happens and spread out, or nasty stuff happens (potentially just a wipe).

[siipperi]

I think the corrupter's burst could easily do 90% max health hit (unmitigated) on T2, on T1, I'd say 40% unmitigated would be decent. Also if Im right it's an induction.. remove that.. make that eye inevitably appear.. make it so that people need to be aware what happens and spread out, or nasty stuff happens (potentially just a wipe).

Can you quickly tell what that does? (Havent done 6man on bullroarer) is it corruption or debuff on characters? If so agreeing that it should be higher on t2, atleast 3/4 of morale pool.

[Vulcwen]

Can you quickly tell what that does? (Havent done 6man on bullroarer) is it corruption or debuff on characters? If so agreeing that it should be higher on t2, atleast 3/4 of morale pool.

It's a debuff that on expiration does damage to all players near you (not yourself).. so you can completely avoid it if you split up.

[ThePinion]

Thanks for the additional feedback. I'm going to crank up quite a few things today.

Short list of today's changes:

-Corrupter burst will now hit the person the countdown is on as well, so there's no way to completely avoid damage.
-Corrupter burst damage increased to 70% morale.
-Corrupter incoming healing debuff increased to -60% from -25%.
-Dark Plague spirit on-death bursts increased in range and increased to 50% morale from 30%.
-Dark Plague spirits will now attack more randomly.
-Various other minor buffs to monsters.

I'm going to try to add more to Gorothul, Mazog, and Achardor. Also, I'm going to make the fell-beast a bit harsher on regular attacks. I'll also take a look at the Armour's skills to make them more threatening as the final trash set.

[infinitewhimsy]

Thanks for the additional feedback. I'm going to crank up quite a few things today.

Short list of today's changes:

-Corrupter burst will now hit the person the countdown is on as well, so there's no way to completely avoid damage.
-Corrupter burst damage increased to 70% morale.
-Corrupter incoming healing debuff increased to -60% from -25%.
-Dark Plague spirit on-death bursts increased in range and increased to 50% morale from 30%.
-Dark Plague spirits will now attack more randomly.
-Various other minor buffs to monsters.

I'm going to try to add more to Gorothul, Mazog, and Achardor. Also, I'm going to make the fell-beast a bit harsher on regular attacks. I'll also take a look at the Armour's skills to make them more threatening as the final trash set.

I love you.

[siipperi]

Thanks for the additional feedback. I'm going to crank up quite a few things today.

Short list of today's changes:

-Corrupter burst will now hit the person the countdown is on as well, so there's no way to completely avoid damage.
-Corrupter burst damage increased to 70% morale.
-Corrupter incoming healing debuff increased to -60% from -25%.
-Dark Plague spirit on-death bursts increased in range and increased to 50% morale from 30%.
-Dark Plague spirits will now attack more randomly.
-Various other minor buffs to monsters.

I'm going to try to add more to Gorothul, Mazog, and Achardor. Also, I'm going to make the fell-beast a bit harsher on regular attacks. I'll also take a look at the Armour's skills to make them more threatening as the final trash set.

Thanks. Sounds really promising.

[MessyR]

Very promising ThePinion, looking forward to this

[ThePinion]

Also, going to drop +2 Dread on the Black Blade's arena in T1, and +7 in T2.

The rest of the changes have been made!

[Leixy]

Also, going to drop +2 Dread on the Black Blade's arena in T1, and +7 in T2.

The rest of the changes have been made!

If that's the case, give him a Hope wipe skill to make it interesting. I mean, he is a nazgul, so it makes sense.

Since he is the black blade, if he had a melee skill that removes hope with his blade, that would be perfect.

[Giliodor]

If that's the case, give him a Hope wipe skill to make it interesting. I mean, he is a nazgul, so it makes sense.

Since he is the black blade, if he had a melee skill that removes hope with his blade, that would be perfect.

That would be an idiotic idea. +7 dread + T2 damage is a guaranteed wipe.

[mmogaming]

If that's the case, give him a Hope wipe skill to make it interesting. I mean, he is a nazgul, so it makes sense.

Since he is the black blade, if he had a melee skill that removes hope with his blade, that would be perfect.

Please no. I do not want to see a 6 man in 7 dead because of deaths, or all on token timer CD, chain wiping hope, etc.

I am for making it a challenge but lets keep things in check here, it is a grp instance not a 12/24 Raid instance.

Its different back in the day when this was used for Rog, with 12people you could manage the hope wipe.

With all that dread, your wiping in seconds.

[Leixy]

I was thinking more like 1 hope wipe every 3-5 minutes in combat, would give an artificial timer. That was only 3 party members would need hope tokens to keep it up the whole fight.

Plus, +7 dread takes about 20 seconds to stack onto a tank or a player. plenty of time to call out for hope tokens.

+7 dread is nothing when you pop a +6 hope token, maybe make it +9 or 10 dread to make it better.

We already have hope wipes in other places in 6-mans.

He's a Nazgul, Dread should be a huge factor in the combat, not just simply "hey, pop a token so we can do this like sambrog".

[ThePinion]

I'm going to pass on the hope wipe, but after some thought about making the final %'s of the fight more interesting, I've opted to give him a soft enrage beginning at 20% (~800,000 health remaining) that will increase his damage and attack speed permanently every 20 seconds until he's defeated. This should make ending the fight a bit more pressing and not as much of a drop-off back to normalcy after the fell-beast and other adds (barring the one left alive for the challenge, if applicable) are defeated.

With the DG adds having T1/T2 skills and this enrage, I think he's in a good place now.

[Leixy]

The soft enrage effect is a good idea, would make some debuff classes like lore-masters or yellow burgs potentially earn a place in this fight.

[Rubriel]

I only tested this solo at level 50 just to get a rough idea, as I don't want to spoil the experience running it for the first time on live. What I noticed:

1st boss fight looks like a lot of fun. Probably the biggest mob we've seen in game (or maybe my toon is just *very* short...) I like it that there are debuff nasties to watch out for all the way through, even on the trash pulls. If you do the elective sidequest arc that leads to Lord of Pinions, the 5 trash pulls seem like they would be pretty tough on t2.

The indoor part on the way to the final boss could use some work. Great atmospherics already, but that whole area seemed too empty and it was difficult to figure out where the 'door' was to the next stage. Could use some extra mobs that semi lead you to where you need to go and build more suspense as you approach the final fight.

[Schinderhannes]

Feedback after one t1 run (b4)

1. What did you like? What were the stand-out moments?

- I liked that it covers almost the whole city.
- The last boss was exciting and had a small drama sequence. (Rook could need that too)
- I liked seeing the huge oliphant the first time. You don't have to click on him to know he is a (mini) boss.

2. What didn't you like? Did certain parts drag?

I don't like the the extensive use of the gritty stone textures. It's just too much for my taste. Everything looks very dark and brown in an artificial way. As if a nuke exploded and destroyed everything.
I think the space could need more contrast, and a less noisy textures to give the eyes some rest. White materials on pavement, dirt, dust and undamaged stones, blue water, red blood, old and fresh, green gras and bright, fresh wood.
The Rook Boss area could need some love. What is he doing there? Where do players have to stand when the fight starts? I think the invisible wall should be at the gate and not so near the boss. It was a bit frustrating the first time we started the fight and half of the group was behind the barrier.
It's a long and space with no teleport option and clear path. Players will wipe and have to run the whole way back if they reset. Everything that helps in such a situation... helps.

3. What did you think of the Mûmak encounter? Did it feel well-balanced? Was it approachable on T1, and engaging as a first fight on T2?

The difficulty is ok in T1. I liked that you could increase the group dmg by kiting him in the venom. The enrage timer is also nice.
I didn't like that he glitches when you drag him near the catapults. Because he is so big he suddenly seems to float in the air, instead of beeing blocked by the catapult.
I think huge bosses like him benifit from more space. This is almost to narrow. But it's not that big of a deal if the glitching gets fixed.

4. What were the high and low points for the regular monsters? Did one section (Haradrim/Troll, Orc, Easterling, Animated Armour) seem too weak or too deadly?

Nothing to report here other than the excessive stuns from some Easterlings or Haradrim. It was in a big tent near the dome, cannot remember their names, sorry.
Overall there are many different enemy types with different/complicated mechanics. I guess it takes some time to remember all these...

5. What monster skills did you like? Which ones didn't you like? Did some seem too weak/too strong?

The trolls are maybe a bit to weak, or everything else is to strong in T1. Not sure how to put it.
There are many combat mechanics that undermine the ability to tank. I'm a guardian, so all of these are not really "awesome". Especially the stuns I mentioned earlier.
I kinda liked the "aggro through dmg"-mechanic, although I couldn't really tank with dps, even if I tried.
In the end there are a lot of T2/complicated mechanics present in T1, everyone in your group should be aware of, but I don't think people really want to do that in a T1 space because of a PEW PEW, 123, I just wanna have fun mentality.
The result is a unsatisfying chaos, at least in the eyes of the tank and healer. Everyone else probably enjoys dealing AOE dmg all the time.

[Macdui]

I assumed it's all being tuned to fully maxed out imbued LIs that have had the benefit of huge numbers of free resources on Bullroarer?

[infinitewhimsy]

I assumed it's all being tuned to fully maxed out imbued LIs that have had the benefit of huge numbers of free resources on Bullroarer?

All anyone with a complete LI on live requires to get the majority of the benefit of Imbued LIs is IXP.

[Gabli]

Short list of today's changes:

-Corrupter burst will now hit the person the countdown is on as well, so there's no way to completely avoid damage.
-Corrupter burst damage increased to 70% morale.
-Corrupter incoming healing debuff increased to -60% from -25%.
-Dark Plague spirit on-death bursts increased in range and increased to 50% morale from 30%.
-Dark Plague spirits will now attack more randomly.
-Various other minor buffs to monsters.

I'm going to try to add more to Gorothul, Mazog, and Achardor. Also, I'm going to make the fell-beast a bit harsher on regular attacks. I'll also take a look at the Armour's skills to make them more threatening as the final trash set.

I'm going to pass on the hope wipe, but after some thought about making the final %'s of the fight more interesting, I've opted to give him a soft enrage beginning at 20% (~800,000 health remaining) that will increase his damage and attack speed permanently every 20 seconds until he's defeated. This should make ending the fight a bit more pressing and not as much of a drop-off back to normalcy after the fell-beast and other adds (barring the one left alive for the challenge, if applicable) are defeated.

With the DG adds having T1/T2 skills and this enrage, I think he's in a good place now.

How how I love what I'm reading here
Having a content dev communicating with us to obtain a reasonnable challenge for geared players is refreshing and much appreciated !
I see the same is more or less happening for Ruined City, any chance to have the same process for Sunken Labyrinth ?

[mrfigglesworth]

I've opted to give him a soft enrage beginning at 20% (~800,000 health remaining) that will increase his damage and attack speed permanently every 20 seconds until he's defeated.

I would suggest something a little more imminent, such as a damage and attack speed increase every 10 seconds but for a slightly less buff each time. For example, say the boss was given 25% more damage and -10% attack duration every 20 seconds....I'd suggest making it 20% damage and -7.5% attack duration every 10 seconds. 20 seconds is a long time with nothing happening and I can see lots of t2c groups not even realizing this mechanic exists (unless the buff was REALLY BIG) until about 40 seconds later, at which point the boss will probably be 200 to 300k morale and cooldowns can take the players the rest of the way.