Kinship Transfer Guide

[Sparkznz]

When a kin moves, the kinhouse housing items will appear in the housing escrow of the kinship leader. If the kinship leader also has there own house I assume the items will also appear in the housing escrow. Will the housing escrow state that these items were from the kinhouse and these items were from their own house or will the items be all jumbled up together?

Please advise, thank you.

[CaerArianrhod]

Normally a kinship gets disbanded if you have less than 8 characters for more than 5 days. Will at least 7 members need to transfer within 5 days to keep the kinship alive?

No.
This has been changed with Update 13
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-release-Notes

• Kinships are no longer automatically disbanded for not having enough members.

[Hastran]

From what I have read, If a kinship transfers to a server that has a kinship with the same name the transferring kinship loses it's name. You are already taking our home servers, why should we automatically lose our kinship names. Would it not be fairer to let the kinship that has existed the longest keep the name rather than lose it just because you have the misfortune to be on a closing server?

Hastran

[RJFerret]

Would it not be fairer to let the kinship that has existed the longest keep the name rather than lose it just because you have the misfortune to be on a closing server?

Fairer to whom? The community on the server that knows the previous kin, it's reputation, it's members, and has interacted with it? Meanwhile the kin coming in is only known by a few folks on a smaller server they came from, that mostly went to other servers anyway.

It's not an issue of fairness, it's what has the least negative impact. Changing the name of a kin that is a fresh face to the community is less of an impact.

[Kolde]

When a kin moves, the kinhouse housing items will appear in the housing escrow of the kinship leader. If the kinship leader also has there own house I assume the items will also appear in the housing escrow. Will the housing escrow state that these items were from the kinhouse and these items were from their own house or will the items be all jumbled up together?

Please advise, thank you.

I would like to know this also. I would guess that most players who own a kinship house also own their own house and both are likely owned by the same character. We already had an incident last year where a kinship member's escrow belongings ended up in our kinship house chest. It would be nice to know what is going to happen with this.

[Hastran]

Fairer to whom? The community on the server that knows the previous kin, it's reputation, it's members, and has interacted with it? Meanwhile the kin coming in is only known by a few folks on a smaller server they came from, that mostly went to other servers anyway.

It's not an issue of fairness, it's what has the least negative impact. Changing the name of a kin that is a fresh face to the community is less of an impact.

So nice to be forced to an new server as second class citizens. And negative impact on who? The server that keeps its entire community intact vs those who are spread out in the great LOTRO dispora? Your kinship that is 2-4 years old gets trumped by one that is 6 months old. I get character names, can't be changing character names every time a new server opens to transfer from, but Kinships could be given to the oldest transferring group easily enough. Guess all transfers need to be headed to the back of the Bus after transferring. I can see the Chat now. LFF who originated on this server, illegal imigrants need not apply.

[Katbird1]

I took screen shots of all chests - personal and kin - so if there is some chance one of my kin's stuff ends up in my house (or vice versa) I can get it sorted. I have encouraged all my kin members to do the same and not to forget the stuff in their yard. I also will take shots of my bags and vaults when I get ready to move so I can tell if everything came along with me. I'm sure it's going to be fine but may as well be prepared if you have to petition for something.

[Tybur]

When a kin moves, the kinhouse housing items will appear in the housing escrow of the kinship leader. If the kinship leader also has there own house I assume the items will also appear in the housing escrow. Will the housing escrow state that these items were from the kinhouse and these items were from their own house or will the items be all jumbled up together?

Please advise, thank you.

The housing escrow storage (or housing storage if you have already bought a house on the new server) will NOT state whether items are from a personal or kin house. So some organization of the housing storage ahead of time would be wise. The kin leader can organize their own personal housing storage into chest 10 for example to aid in later separation. It is worth noting that unbound decoration items on hooks from both the personal and kin house of a kinship leader will appear in the main (first) chest of housing escrow / storage, so a kin leader might also want to pack away their personal house decorations into storage.

[maartena]

The housing escrow storage (or housing storage if you have already bought a house on the new server) will NOT state whether items are from a personal or kin house. So some organization of the housing storage ahead of time would be wise. The kin leader can organize their own personal housing storage into chest 10 for example to aid in later separation. It is worth noting that unbound decoration items on hooks from both the personal and kin house of a kinship leader will appear in the main (first) chest of housing escrow / storage, so a kin leader might also want to pack away their personal house decorations into storage.

A tip here is to use a "mule". A low level character, whose vault and bags you can use to stow away any good you want to move over to another server. For less than 1 gold you have (I believe) 60 slots in the vault, and you will have whatever bag space you normally have on your account. That should help with e.g. storing all your items from your kinhouse, so the personal items can go to escrow. The "mule" can be used again later to re-decorate the kinhouse.

[maartena]

So nice to be forced to an new server as second class citizens. And negative impact on who? The server that keeps its entire community intact vs those who are spread out in the great LOTRO dispora? Your kinship that is 2-4 years old gets trumped by one that is 6 months old. I get character names, can't be changing character names every time a new server opens to transfer from, but Kinships could be given to the oldest transferring group easily enough. Guess all transfers need to be headed to the back of the Bus after transferring. I can see the Chat now. LFF who originated on this server, illegal imigrants need not apply.

Unless you have a really common kin name, it is very unlikely that your kinship name exists on all servers. You can choose a different server for your kinship and move there. It was a major factor in my decission to choose Arkenstone, as I didn't like the trolls in world chat on Gladden, and my kinship name was taken on Crickhollow.

And still if someone has been working hard to make a (small) kinship that is 6 months old, that doesn't give you the right to take over their name because your name is older.

[Hastran]

Unless you have a really common kin name, it is very unlikely that your kinship name exists on all servers. You can choose a different server for your kinship and move there. It was a major factor in my decission to choose Arkenstone, as I didn't like the trolls in world chat on Gladden, and my kinship name was taken on Crickhollow.

And still if someone has been working hard to make a (small) kinship that is 6 months old, that doesn't give you the right to take over their name because your name is older.

It is not taking over someones name if your kin had it first. It can just as easily be seen as the kinship on the servers staying open are "taking" the name from the older kinship. The closing of servers is beyond player control, so do you really believe that only the Transferring players should have to face the negative aspects of this event? People will already lose their character names if anyone else on the server already has it (regardless of time held). Shouldn't there be some grace given to the players whose servers are being closed? Something as small as not losing their kinships name (which also took hard work to build).

[Beaniemooch]

Unless you have a really common kin name, it is very unlikely that your kinship name exists on all servers. You can choose a different server for your kinship and move there. It was a major factor in my decission to choose Arkenstone, as I didn't like the trolls in world chat on Gladden, and my kinship name was taken on Crickhollow.

And still if someone has been working hard to make a (small) kinship that is 6 months old, that doesn't give you the right to take over their name because your name is older.

OK, had to LOL at this. I'm glad you find the trolls on Arkenstone more likeable. Apparently you also hadn't seen how some people have been deliberately coming to Gladden and trolling our chat channels also just to cause trouble. Good luck on Ark though, it's a nice server also.

By the way, depending on the day and the time, there are trolls everywhere. Arkenstone is not immune.

[maartena]

OK, had to LOL at this. I'm glad you find the trolls on Arkenstone more likeable. Apparently you also hadn't seen how some people have been deliberately coming to Gladden and trolling our chat channels also just to cause trouble. Good luck on Ark though, it's a nice server also.

By the way, depending on the day and the time, there are trolls everywhere. Arkenstone is not immune.

No server is immune. But I leveled a character to 100 on Gladden, and one to 88 on Arkenstone, and I definitly can say that Gladden is much more immature in world chat than Gladden. It might have something to do with the fact that Gladden was (is?) the Steam preferred server for a long time.

I also leveled some low level toons on each server and asked for help with some armor or weapons, usually weapons or instruments as I mostly picked mini's with tailoring. When asked for woodworker help (WITH the offer of paying them with collected wood of course), the communities on Arkenstone and Crickhollow both stepped up, and I got several tells. On Gladden they were too busy discussing who was better at sparring or was better at creeping or freeping in the moors, and my request for help got lost or ignored. That also played a part. Eventually I settled on Arkenstone and Crickhollow, and the only reason I didn't pick Crickhollow was because my kinship name was taken.

This said, I KNOW there are good people on Gladden. My toon is in the Keepers of the Spoon, and that is simply an awesome kin with great people. But my god, I had to filter out world chat on some days because the immaturity level was at a very high level.

[maartena]

It is not taking over someones name if your kin had it first. It can just as easily be seen as the kinship on the servers staying open are "taking" the name from the older kinship. The closing of servers is beyond player control, so do you really believe that only the Transferring players should have to face the negative aspects of this event? People will already lose their character names if anyone else on the server already has it (regardless of time held). Shouldn't there be some grace given to the players whose servers are being closed? Something as small as not losing their kinships name (which also took hard work to build).

But you didn't have it first on THAT server. Is it really fair that a kinship that is 4 years old can be taken over by a kinship that is 4 years and 3 months old? And what if the next server closes, and a 5 year old kin on that server comes over and then reclaims the name again? And when the next server migrates, there is a kin on there that is 6 years old, does it happen again? You can't have a system where potentially 10 servers are all moving to the same server, and you just keep on having to give up your kinship name till it reaches the top of the food chain? That's just not going to work.

Also, would you not be MAJORLY pissed off if you have a 4 year old kinship name.... you went through the trouble to create a character and re-create that kinship name on a target server to reserve the name (and when it is time to transfer you disband the name, and move your kinship leader) only to find out that 2 days before your server opens up for transfer, someone from Elendilmir or Riddermark or another early transfer server has a 5 year old kinship name, and comes in, kicks off you "name place" kinship name and takes it? Or worse, you actually manage to do that succesfully, and 2 days later a kinship that is TWO DAYS older then yours comes in and swoops away the name? Even worse, what if that kinship has 3 active members and just happens to be really old, and your kinship has 200 members and is active?

It would an absolute nightmare if someone with a kinship that has 200 members but is only a year old will have their name taken away by an incoming kinship that has 3 members and just so happens to be OLDER.

You can't have those kinds of situations, the same rules need to apply: If the kinship was on THAT server first, regardless of how old it is, it gets to keep the name. If the kinship name is important to you, you can either pick another server, wait till that kinship goes inactive and dissolves, or talk to the leader of the kinship about a name exchange. They can file a ticket to rename the kin, and when that is done, so can you.

Any system that allows one to take over names, characters, kinships or otherwise, without any consent of the person/kinship currently holding that name, is a BAD idea.

[Hastran]

But you didn't have it first on THAT server

but they did have it first in the "GAME" This event is about the entire game, not just the servers being closed.

Any system that allows one to take over names, characters, kinships or otherwise, without any consent of the person/kinship currently holding that name, is a BAD idea.

And yet that is exactly what is being done to everyone who has to transfer........

We lose our character and kinship names because of random selection.....this server stays open and the players on them will be treated better than the one who we are forcing to transfer by closing their servers. These players names and kinship names should be protected while these players are at the whim of fate.

LOTRO is closing 19 servers and maintaining 10. I don't get the idea that those remaining 10 somehow deserve "preferential treatment" compared to the ones losing their entire communities. If you wanted to have a random drawing for conflicting names it would be fairer than giving priority to someone just because they were fortunate enough to be on a server that is not being closed.

The people forced to transfer are losing their communities, the players on the servers staying open lose nothing, and yet to have all the sacrifices fall on the transferring players seems to be the plan.

[RJFerret]

The people forced to transfer are losing their communities, the players on the servers staying open lose nothing, and yet to have all the sacrifices fall on the transferring players seems to be the plan.

Less burden overall.

Few people have to transfer, as most the population is on servers remaining open.

Of that small portion of the population, few will have name conflicts.

Of those, it makes more sense for the majority on the server who know an individual by that name to continue to do so, rather than supplanting them with a different individual.

Meanwhile a transferee has to tell his friends where he's gone and can at the same time update them with new name, no biggy.

"The needs of the many outweigh the wants of the few."

[Hastran]

Less burden overall.

Few people have to transfer, as most the population is on servers remaining open.

Of that small portion of the population, few will have name conflicts.

Of those, it makes more sense for the majority on the server who know an individual by that name to continue to do so, rather than supplanting them with a different individual.

Meanwhile a transferee has to tell his friends where he's gone and can at the same time update them with new name, no biggy.

"The needs of the many outweigh the wants of the few."

Do you really think the 10 servers staying open had more population than all 19 being closed? I am sure on a 1 for basis you might be right, but 19 to 10 I am not so sure of.

Also, If you read my first post you will see that I have not been advocating for character names to go to the longest holder (I have just used it as an example of what transferring players are losing). In my case I will lose at least 1 of 2 toon names checked whichever server I go to (only checked my main 2) and more likely to lose both. So, your position that there aren't going to be a lot of conflicts is not accurate in my case.

What I have been advocating for is that the longest holder of a kinship name get to maintain that name. A small sop to the players whose worlds are literally ending.

[maartena]

What I have been advocating for is that the longest holder of a kinship name get to maintain that name. A small sop to the players whose worlds are literally ending.

So in your logic:

Kinship named "Pippins Posse" on Landroval is 1 year, 2 months old.
Kinship named "Pippins Posse" on Elendilmir is 1 yeas, 8 months old.

Elendilmir is opened up for transfers. "Pippins Posse" picks Landroval.
Landroval's "Pippins Posse" is renamed "Pippins Posse-1" because the incoming "Pippins Posse" is older.

Kinship named "Pippins Posse" on Riddermark is 2 years old.

1 week later, Riddermark gets to transfer. "Pippins Posse" once again chooses Landroval.

The "Pippins Posse" that was there originally is still fuming with anger that someone came in and stole their name and is still named "Pippins Posse-1"

The Riddermark "Pippins Posse" moves in and is older than the current holder of the "Pippins Posse" name, and is renamed "Pippins Posse-2".

Are we following still?

A small recap:

"Pippins Posse" - 2 years old.
"Pippins Posse-2" - 1 year 8 months.
"Pippins Posse-1" - 1 year 2 months.

Now, it is Withywindle's turn to migrate. They have a "Pippins Posse" that is 3 years old and they too chose Landroval.

Are you starting to realize what is going to happen? Will your kin name ever be safe? What if a 8-year-old-since-beta kin named "Pippins Posse" on Meneldor is patiently waiting till it is finally their turn, being the very last server on the list.... and they trump everyone as they are on top of the food chain.... and months later, the current holder of the "Pippins Posse" name could still lose it, because this much older kin of 10 members is coming in and taking the crown on the name.

And what if....the certainly almost 8 years old kin "Brandywine Brewing Company" decides to move from Brandywine to Landroval, but BEFORE they move, they rename to "Pippins Posse"?

[Hastran]

So in your logic: "Pippins Posse"?

responding to above.

I thought every ones position was it would not affect many people? That there would be very few conflicts....so which is it a major issue with 6 to 8 changes coming for every kin name or a few isolated incidents?

[maartena]

but they did have it first in the "GAME" This event is about the entire game, not just the servers being closed.

No, it really isn't. Think about it. YOU have the choice of 4 servers, and can pick the server that DOES NOT have your kinship name.
The existing kinship on a server does not really have that choice, they are already there.

This GAME as you put it, has a lot of different communities. Each server is it's own community, there are kinships that are known and reputable. The closing servers are going all over the place, if you read some of the server forums, kinships are spreading all over, so those communities (including my own server's community) are going to be spread around like refugees. Most servers are very welcoming to new players, but I am sure they aren't going to be as welcoming if they can come in and steal existing kinship names. It will create friction, conflict, anger, and bitterness in that community.

Is your kinship name really taken on all 5 servers? I can't imagine it is.... And if it really is, it must be ACTIVE, as a kinship folds after 65 days of inactivity and no leader usurpment.

And yet that is exactly what is being done to everyone who has to transfer........

We lose our character and kinship names because of random selection.....this server stays open and the players on them will be treated better than the one who we are forcing to transfer by closing their servers. These players names and kinship names should be protected while these players are at the whim of fate.

LOTRO is closing 19 servers and maintaining 10. I don't get the idea that those remaining 10 somehow deserve "preferential treatment" compared to the ones losing their entire communities. If you wanted to have a random drawing for conflicting names it would be fairer than giving priority to someone just because they were fortunate enough to be on a server that is not being closed.

The people forced to transfer are losing their communities, the players on the servers staying open lose nothing, and yet to have all the sacrifices fall on the transferring players seems to be the plan.

You right, it isn't fair. It never is in these kinds of situations. But unlike many other games, where they often simply merge 2 servers, and one is the Alpha ("winning") server and the other the Beta ("losing") server, and the people on the losing server will lose their names, their guild names, and their server names, period. They have no choice to go to a different server, the migration isn't user driven, and they don't have a chance to "reserve" a character name as the migration happens when they do it, and if you didn't have a chance to delete your name reserve toon, you lose.

You have had 6 months since they first announced it, to find your kinship name on another server, create a character, level it out of the intro, and create the kinship name to reserve it. 6 months. If the kinship really is taken on ALL target servers, you are now out of luck. If you didn't take the time to check and create the kinship on servers, some people from OTHER servers might have done that instead, and they now get the name. Too bad, you are now too late. I was there immediately in January to create my kinship name on several servers, and have since then disbanded the kinship on all but Arkenstone, where I am going.

I would recommend you read the post above this one, which is what could happen at any time when there are 10 servers waiting to migrate, and 10 kins with different ages. The best solution HAS to be that the existing kinship wins the name. You can always negotiate if it is a very small kinship, and see if they are willing to give up the name. But there cannot be a new "I am older than you, give me the name" kinship name resolution every time a server moves.

And I am very interested to know which kinship name it is, as it is easy to check whether a kin exists.

[maartena]

responding to above.

I thought every ones position was it would not affect many people? That there would be very few conflicts....so which is it a major issue with 6 to 8 changes coming for every kin name or a few isolated incidents?

If you choose your server well, there aren't going to be many conflicts. I chose Arkenstone because my kinship name was still available there. It was actually available everywhere, except Crickhollow.

But you can't create a situation where the "top of the food chain" can continue to claim names because next week an even OLDER kin comes in.

You also didn't think about kinship sizes. Would you not be upset if your 100 man kin gets trumped by a 3-person kin that is 7 years old when Meneldor finally gets to move? (and had 8+ members until last year, but died out?) There are so many things that can go wrong with situations like that. You will have existing kinships getting angry for losing their name while YOU, the owner of a kinship actually have the CHOICE to move to a server that doesn't have your kinship name.

[Hastran]

Hmmmm....1 server currently locked for up coming transfers, 1 server is an RP server (which I am highly in favor of having) leaves 3 servers.

The announcement I saw about which servers are going to stay open was Aug 3rd, 2015, so unless your suggestion was to reserve on all the servers 6 months ago (or maybe you had inside information) your point seems invalid.

I am well aware that the transferring players are going to get the short of the stick. It doesn't mean I agree with it.

Tell me if the the server populations on any of the servers staying open are losing anything? What part of game play, except for a higher population, are they going to have negative aspects to deal with? How are their communities spread through 5 different servers? The position is that the transferring players lose all, pay all, give up all and gosh we wouldn't want the untouched servers to face any negative aspects at all.....cause that wouldn't be fair to them. So yes, I think that there should be a little pain for all, and not all the pain for a few.

You can relax however, the Devs will proceed on as planned and the choice will be to accept it or if the frustration is to much, leave the game, and it is just a game after all, with no real reason to really get perturbed about. There were games before this one and there will be games after.

Salutations to all, whatever your server.

[Jhp]

If it was just me I would like to see Kinship names lengthened to have room to include the prior server. Then the kinships on the servers staying open would keep their names untouched and the kinships transferring in could be xxxxx of Server x.

My kinship would then be: A Light in the Darkness of DwarrowDelf whether we transfer to Arkenstone, Crickhollow or where ever

This would let people keep their names and the reputation that goes with them, preserve the history of the kinship and would not effect the pre-existing kinships of the servers in any negative fashion. It would just require room for a longer kinship name or another field that would be filled in automatically with the server name when you transferred from your old server to the new one.

Just my 2 cents

[RJFerret]

Do you really think the 10 servers staying open had more population than all 19 being closed?

I don't have to think it, check the numbers yourself, or the podcast interview with Vyvyanne and Frelorn, Brandy itself has about half the population. Landy and Gladden are about half the size of Brandy. All the others each only have about 5% of the pop IIRC. (Not counting EU side as I've never looked there.)

So sure, you might have impacts, but think about all the people who know the folks who are already on the server who know others by that name, they FAR outnumber the one of you and your desire to clue in your associates of your new name.

[Hastran]

So sure, you might have impacts, but think about all the people who know the folks who are already on the server who know others by that name, they FAR outnumber the one of you and your desire to clue in your associates of your new name.

Again, if you would read the posts I have made it has been about Kinship Names being maintained, not individual character names (which I agree would be unrealistic). I actually like the suggestion of an option to add a server name to the kinship name, that way no one really loses.

As to your comment of

the one you and your desire to clue in your associates of your new name.

I don't have a clue to what you are referring to.