[Issue mentioned during stream] Store Crystals and Scrolls prices (For QuartermasterU)

[DiogoVP]

Since the changes made on the last update to reduce the ILI grind, we've had changes on the price for upgrade a legacy from 29 Mithril Coins to 10 Mithril coins, which is 100 TP. However, buying a scroll from the store costs 295 TP and a starlit costs 495 TP. So when I see those sales for SoEs and Starlit Crystals I feel a pain because I know that there might be people being deceived to believe that they are spending less, when there is another option where they can save up to 2/3 of their Turbine Points if they need scrolls. And 5/6 of their Turbine Points if they need starlit crystals.

Replacing or adding a new legacy slot costs 50 Mithril Coins (Or 500 TP), however, on the Store, the price for a Crystal of Remembrance is 995 TP and an Imbued Legacy Replacement Scroll is 795 TP. This is another case where buying mithril coins will be a whole lot cheaper for you and still apply the same effect.

Here are a few screenshots where you can obviously see that:











The prices need to be dropped to be equivalent to their prices with Mithril Coins. In other words:

1 Scroll of Empowerment must cost 95 TP.
1 Star-lit Crystal must cost 95 TP.
5 Scrolls of Empowerment must cost 400 TP.
3 Star-lit Crystals must cost 230 TP .
1 Crystal of Remembrance must cost 495 TP.
1 Imbued Legacy Replacement Scroll must cost also 495 TP.

While this problem isn't fixed I would suggest to stop doing any promotion sales for those items on the store, as by doing that, you're encouraging people to be robbed without them knowing it. Unless those sales are 75% off scrolls of empowerment, 85% off Starlit Crystals, 50% off Crystal of Remembrance and 60% off Imbued Legacy Replacement Scroll... until those prices are fixed.

[Warmutkan]

Definitely didn't notice this pricing difference - glad I didn't put down TP during the last LI item sale. +1 for balancing these prices to match the MC price. (but if the alternative "fix" is to just raise the MC cost on LIs, dear lord, please don't)

[QuartermasterU]

Just popping in to let you know that we've gotten the feedback. Thanks for posting this!

[Witch0King]

ach. and I who bought two of those Additional Legacy Slots.. Guess I had it coming for deciding to buy them through the store

[strider89406]

What is this store you are referring to - for me it has become a way to exit the game. All kidding aside, the last few times I have tried to access the store I have crashed. I was going to submit a ticket but just never logged back in, so the next time I played, I forgot about why and how I had crashed and did not submit a ticket. Seeing this post just made remember I should probably send in a help ticket before I try the store. I have been saving my turbine points for some horses when and if they ever go on sale again - I sure hope this can be fixed before the next horse sale...

[DiogoVP]

What is this store you are referring to - for me it has become a way to exit the game. All kidding aside, the last few times I have tried to access the store I have crashed. I was going to submit a ticket but just never logged back in, so the next time I played, I forgot about why and how I had crashed and did not submit a ticket. Seeing this post just made remember I should probably send in a help ticket before I try the store. I have been saving my turbine points for some horses when and if they ever go on sale again - I sure hope this can be fixed before the next horse sale...

Perhaps it is the OS you're using? There is a thread for this already: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...e-crashes-game

[Thoroval]

Just popping in to let you know that we've gotten the feedback. Thanks for posting this!

So if I'm reading this correctly, purchasing Starlit Crystals from the store costs ~5 times what they cost using Mithril Coins (purchased with TP) in game. QuartermasterU is aware of the huge disparity that is overcharging unaware players for using the store. Yet I see that Starlit Crystals just went on sale yesterday, not for a minimum of 85% off as suggested by DiogoVP, but only for 25% off with an unchanged non-sale price of 495TP (371TP is the sale price). So the store sale price is still nearly 4 times the Mithril Coin price. Is that correct?

[DiogoVP]

So if I'm reading this correctly, purchasing Starlit Crystals from the store costs ~5 times what they cost using Mithril Coins (purchased with TP) in game. QuartermasterU is aware of the huge disparity that is overcharging unaware players for using the store. Yet I see that Starlit Crystals just went on sale yesterday, not for a minimum of 85% off as suggested by DiogoVP, but only for 25% off with an unchanged non-sale price of 495TP (371TP is the sale price). So the store sale price is still nearly 4 times the Mithril Coin price. Is that correct?

Looks like he did change the prices of the scrolls of empowerment as I am seeing them at the cost of 195 now instead of 295, but still not the prices that I suggested in the thread. All the other items still have the same cost. In other words: they are still robbering unaware players. I seriously don't understand Turbine's constant reluctance to do the right thing. You are aware of something that is wrong and you do something that lessens the wrong instead of doing the right thing.

And you still do the 25% sales in the hopes that some fool will buy your stuff for 4x the Mithril Coin price. Dear Turbine, why are you doing this? Don't you understand that it doesn't go well for you?
At first I presumed you were inadvertently robbering players, but now you guys are aware of the issue and still keep doing the same thing. Where is the righteousness in all of this?

[grenifk]

But what's the point of lowering prices for Crystal of Remembrance, if it works only after imbuement (with mithril coins), which means you'll have to spend extra 50 MC to change legacy, or you get to choose which legacy you'll slot right away?

Before imbuement your only option is via store or obtained ingame.

[DiogoVP]

But what's the point of lowering prices for Crystal of Remembrance, if it works only after imbuement (with mithril coins), which means you'll have to spend extra 50 MC to change legacy, or you get to choose which legacy you'll slot right away?

Before imbuement your only option is via store or obtained ingame.

First of all, a very, very small minority spends Turbine Points on a crystal of remembrance for a LI that is not level 100.

Second, on the other hand, many people are unaware about the huge disparity between the prices with TP and Mithril Coins and are going to spend about 3x - 5x more TP for the actual items instead of buying mithril coins for their imbued LIs.

This is unnaceptable.

[DiogoVP]

Just popping in to let you know that we've gotten the feedback. Thanks for posting this!

1 month since you said that and nothing has been done. In fact, the price of the scrolls are back to 295 TP as they used to be when I created the thread.
You got this, really?
Because I have lost count of how many hotfixes we've had and even a major update, and what did you do? I am deeply sorry, QU, but it seems you could care less about players being robberred and cheated. I don't support players exploiting the game, but what you're doing is almost the same thing. You know that this is very unfair and could be qualified as an exploit from you, but you not only keep this for a month, you also keep doing LI scrolls and crystals sales which was advised for you to stop it 1 month ago with very simple, clear and reasonable explanation. I don't even think you need an update to fix the prices. Is it so hard to do exactly as I suggested and stop the exploit from happening? What is your excuse?
You don't even care about your own image. This is either malicious or very negligent. Any of those things is bad for your image. It shows that you're not really that compromised to us as you should be.
I'm angry for the fact that there are players buying these things, being cheated and you knowing and allowing it to happen. At least remove those items from the Store if you don't know what to do. Do you know something, QU? I don't trust most of you anymore... but I have a feeling that you don't care. I guess I truly love this game because I still fight to see it prosper and to see it being fair, despite your lack of sensibility, concern and sense of justice. And love is that, I guess: fighting for something even when you lost your passion for it. This is what you should appreciate.
I'd understand if this was some other matter of the game of not much importance, but we're talking about something very serious in here and the solution is very simple.
You do nothing? Ok, I am not trusting you anymore. Just joining the line of many players who already did, with true sadness. You're losing, not me.

Edit: I've just realized you've raised the price of the the 7th slot from 50 Mithril Coins to 99 Mithril Coins. I thought the U17.2 was about reducing the LI grind, *not* increasing it. *YOU* dropped the price to 50 Mithril Coins intentionally on U17.2, it was not a bug, and now you raised it again simply because you forgot to drop the price of the Crystal of Remembrance on the Store when you shouldn't have forgotten? Wow...
You didn't get this feedback at all.

[The_Jagannath]

Just popping in to let you know that we've gotten the feedback. Thanks for posting this!

TL;DR

FTFY 10/chars

[Yula_the_Mighty]

Edit: I've just realized you've raised the price of the the 7th slot from 50 Mithril Coins to 99 Mithril Coins. I thought the U17.2 was about reducing the LI grind, *not* increasing it. *YOU* dropped the price to 50 Mithril Coins intentionally on U17.2, it was not a bug, and now you raised it again simply because you forgot to drop the price of the Crystal of Remembrance on the Store when you shouldn't have forgotten? Wow...
You didn't get this feedback at all.

You originally pointed out was a price difference between the Lotro Store and the in game purchase of the same product with Mithril Coins. Unfortunately when you make this kind of observation, there are two choices as to how to realign the prices:

1) The microtransaction temp can lower the Lotro Store prices in Turbine Points which is what you wanted Turbine to do. This solution cuts into their revenue.

2) The game software could be updated to raise the Mithril Coins. This solution increases revenue.

A for profit company is going to naturally gravitate to option 2. Increase prices.

My personal opinion as always.

One final thought. It is clear that the Lotro team is under pressure to increase revenue. Hence the close to 20 dollar price tag for Update 18. I am not surprised that you did not get the price reduction you were expecting. I do not expect reduced grind to get legendary item support products via expenditure of time playing the game. The Lotro team needs to convince people to spend dollars to buy Turbine Points (perhaps convert these Turbine Points to Mithril Coins) which would then be used to purchase these products.

It is my experience that you do not want to bring this kind of misalignment to the notice of someone that can resolve the issue. They are going to do what happened here. Close the gap by raising the price.

[DiogoVP]

You originally pointed out was a price difference between the Lotro Store and the in game purchase of the same product with Mithril Coins. Unfortunately when you make this kind of observation, there are two choices as to how to realign the prices:

1) The microtransaction temp can lower the Lotro Store prices in Turbine Points which is what you wanted Turbine to do. This solution cuts into their revenue.

2) The game software could be updated to raise the Mithril Coins. This solution increases revenue.

A for profit company is going to naturally gravitate to option 2. Increase prices.

My personal opinion as always.

One final thought. It is clear that the Lotro team is under pressure to increase revenue. Hence the close to 20 dollar price tag for Update 18. I am not surprised that you did not get the price reduction you were expecting. I do not expect reduced grind to get legendary item support products via expenditure of time playing the game. The Lotro team needs to convince people to spend dollars to buy Turbine Points (perhaps convert these Turbine Points to Mithril Coins) which would then be used to purchase these products.

It is my experience that you do not want to bring this kind of misalignment to the notice of someone that can resolve the issue. They are going to do what happened here. Close the gap by raising the price.

The problem there is that the price was at first 99 mc and then reduced to 50 mc intentionally as part of the price reductions of scrolls and crystals on Update 17.2. The big problem there is that the prices of those same items on the LOTRO store did not follow that price reduction with MC that came with U17.2. Besides that, you have another problem since the price to upgrade a main legacy (those that you upgrade with star-lit crystals) and the normal legacies (that you upgrade with scrolls of empowerment) were initially both 29 mithril coins and then reduced both to 10 mithril coins (Or 100 TP). On the LOTRO Store, however, the price for the star-lit crystal and the scroll of empowerment are different. And the starlit crystals on the store are 495 TP (5x more than the MC option). Should they increase the price again (in mithril coins) after they have already decreased it and cause indignation among the players? It's like they decide to suddendly increase the cost of all the quest packs and expansion packs... People will be pissed.
The problem I see here is that most people are not aware of that disparity and thanks to the huge amount of LI-related items sales on the LOTRO Store, they are simply encouraging people to spend more for an item making them believe they are actually spending less.
Let's say that they want to increase the Mithril Coins price?
Why is there still a big disparity between the prices for Scrolls of Empowerment, Startlit Crystals and Imbued Legacy Replacement Scroll in TP and TP -> MC? This is disonesty and unrighte. If they want to have more revenue, at least be honest. After all, they owe their jobs to the players and we should be respected. They shouldn't take advantage of the less informed players to try to milk them.
Why was the price of the scroll of empowerment cut to 195 TP last month and now it's back to 295 TP?
Even if they decrease the cost of those items, Turbine will have a big profit due to the amount of LI scrolls and crystals a player needs for each LI. If they decide to increase the prices with MC, I'll seriously have to vomit. It's like they don't have a sense of what's right and wrong. They have deceived the players thus far, part of the time without their own knowledge, and another part with knowledge. The least they can do after all of that is do right by the players and decrease the price on the LOTRO Store and stop this nonsense.

[The_Jagannath]

The problem there is that the price was at first 99 mc and then reduced to 50 mc intentionally as part of the price reductions of scrolls and crystals on Update 17.2. The big problem there is that the prices of those same items on the LOTRO store did not follow that price reduction with MC that came with U17.2. Besides that, you have another problem since the price to upgrade a main legacy (those that you upgrade with star-lit crystals) and the normal legacies (that you upgrade with scrolls of empowerment) were initially both 29 mithril coins and then reduced both to 10 mithril coins (Or 100 TP). On the LOTRO Store, however, the price for the star-lit crystal and the scroll of empowerment are different. And the starlit crystals on the store are 495 TP (5x more than the MC option). Should they increase the price again (in mithril coins) after they have already decreased it and cause indignation among the players? It's like they decide to suddendly increase the cost of all the quest packs and expansion packs... People will be pissed.
The problem I see here is that most people are not aware of that disparity and thanks to the huge amount of LI-related items sales on the LOTRO Store, they are simply encouraging people to spend more for an item making them believe they are actually spending less.
Let's say that they want to increase the Mithril Coins price?
Why is there still a big disparity between the prices for Scrolls of Empowerment, Startlit Crystals and Imbued Legacy Replacement Scroll in TP and TP -> MC? This is disonesty and unrighte. If they want to have more revenue, at least be honest. After all, they owe their jobs to the players and we should be respected. They shouldn't take advantage of the less informed players to try to milk them.
Why was the price of the scroll of empowerment cut to 195 TP last month and now it's back to 295 TP?
Even if they decrease the cost of those items, Turbine will have a big profit due to the amount of LI scrolls and crystals a player needs for each LI. If they decide to increase the prices with MC, I'll seriously have to vomit. It's like they don't have a sense of what's right and wrong. They have deceived the players thus far, part of the time without their own knowledge, and another part with knowledge. The least they can do after all of that is do right by the players and decrease the price on the LOTRO Store and stop this nonsense.

So if somebody makes a purchase with MC, Turbine potentially loses money right? Isn't that essentially your argument in reverse? Or are you just worried about yourself?

[DiogoVP]

So if somebody makes a purchase with MC, Turbine potentially loses money right? Isn't that essentially your argument in reverse? Or are you just worried about yourself?

You're such a moron and a troll that it's about time I put you on my ignore list. But before that, I wanna say you failed miserable on two points:

- 1st) I am not going to buy scrolls or crystals and if I do, I'll buy with MC, so I am not worried about myself.

- 2nd) This is not about Turbine losing money or not. Turbine can get money from players with honesty. That's like taking advantage of a noob that doesn't know what AH is and you telling him that a crystal of remembrance is worth 2000g and then selling it to him because he is just too naive.

My argument in reverse is that purchasing those items with MC makes Turbine lose money? I never said Turbine would get more money if people purchased with MC. My point was clear: the prices have to be the same and since the prices for the mithril coins were decreased as part of the U17.2 grind fix, they should not get raised to the price they were before the update, otherwise they are just returning to where they started and invalidating their a 30+ pages of a thread of people who complained about the grind of the scrolls and crystals back in the day because it was too heavy and breaking their promise that they were going to decrease all of the prices to fix the broken grind.

Don't waste your time replying, there won't be any message for me see from you.

[The_Jagannath]

You're such a moron and a troll that it's about time I put you on my ignore list. But before that, I wanna say you failed miserable on two points:

You might have had a case for unfair and deceptive practices at one point but I seriously doubt you're intelligent enough to make that argument based on your statements throughout this thread. Also, I noticed that you never seem to call anyone a moron or a troll for agreeing with you. Could there be some sort of comfirmation bias at work here? Is it even possible to be considered a troll if the person you are supposedly trying to solicit a response from is ignoring you and you reply anyway?

- 1st) I am not going to buy scrolls or crystals and if I do, I'll buy with MC, so I am not worried about myself.

How philanthropic. More on this later.

- 2nd) This is not about Turbine losing money or not. Turbine can get money from players with honesty.

So I guess honesty in this case only applies when Turbine, producers of the ''game you love'', lose money under this ''unfair'' system?

That's like taking advantage of a noob that doesn't know what AH is and you telling him that a crystal of remembrance is worth 2000g and then selling it to him because he is just too naive

They're worth whatever someone is willing to pay but your analogy is in danger because the seller, in this case Turbine, appears also naive or just plain incompetent.

My argument in reverse is that purchasing those items with MC makes Turbine lose money? I never said Turbine would get more money if people purchased with MC.

I know. You failed to mention how both parties could be disadvantaged because of this apparent mistake. A more honest approach would have been to take this into account. Then maybe somebody would take you seriously.

My point was clear: the prices have to be the same and since the prices for the mithril coins were decreased as part of the U17.2 grind fix, they should not get raised to the price they were before the update, otherwise they are just returning to where they started and invalidating their a 30+ pages of a thread of people who complained about the grind of the scrolls and crystals back in the day because it was too heavy and breaking their promise that they were going to decrease all of the prices to fix the broken grind.

I agree the prices should be consistent. I disagree with your one-sided approach. As far as your 30+ page thread to reduce grind, most of the people posting in that thread were the same handful of serial posters so we can only speculate about what result that may have actually had. I agreed that the grind was excessive. In any event, the grind was reduced and so were the prices (albeit temporarily).

So, if anything, when you really think about it, players had a chance to beat the system or pay normal prices for a short time but rather than make that argument, you lament about how the players are supposedly getting screwed. However, if we run your argument forwards again, from either perspective, it doesn't really work. Turbine may be a terribly incompetent company worthy of criticism and ridicule, but when you make stupid arguments like these you stand in the way of the fair and honest critics.

Don't waste your time replying, there won't be any message for me see from you.

I sincerely hope you're serious. As for me, I'm not trying to solicit a response from you, as evidenced by the fact that I'm now on ''ignore'', so please don't feel obligated.

[DiogoVP]

You might have had a case for unfair and deceptive practices at one point but I seriously doubt you're intelligent enough to make that argument based on your statements throughout this thread. Also, I noticed that you never seem to call anyone a moron or a troll for agreeing with you. Could there be some sort of comfirmation bias at work here? Is it even possible to be considered a troll if the person you are supposedly trying to solicit a response from is ignoring you and you reply anyway?

If I have been unfair in LOTRO, it was not my intention. Either way, it is not relevant. I could do bad things and justify them because of other people/Turbine doing bad things and that wouldn't be fair. The same applies to Turbine.
If you see my history in this forum, you will see that I never called anyone a moron here, even people that have disagreed with me on many occasions. I called you that based on your behavior here and in other threads. You can agree or disagree freely.

So I guess honesty in this case only applies when Turbine, producers of the ''game you love'', lose money under this ''unfair'' system?
They're worth whatever someone is willing to pay but your analogy is in danger because the seller, in this case Turbine, appears also naive or just plain incompetent.

No, they are not. Just because there are people willing to spend 1k TP for one scroll, doesn't mean Turbine should charge that price for them. And they don't.
I think you missed my the point on my analogy: I said many times already that what they are doing can be malicious or negligent. Being negligent usually means you're imcompetent too and if they are malicious, they are naive to think that that's not bad for their image.

I know. You failed to mention how both parties could be disadvantaged because of this apparent mistake. A more honest approach would have been to take this into account. Then maybe somebody would take you seriously.
So, if anything, when you really think about it, players had a chance to beat the system or pay normal prices for a short time but rather than make that argument, you lament about how the players are supposedly getting screwed. However, if we run your argument forwards again, from either perspective, it doesn't really work. Turbine may be a terribly incompetent company worthy of criticism and ridicule, but when you make stupid arguments like these you stand in the way of the fair and honest critics.

No, I didn't fail to mention that. I said that players will be disadvantaged because they are going to spend 2x - 5x the amount they would spend if they just bought mithril coins and how this would disadvantage Turbine because of their own image.
I didn't say players are getting screwed at any point. If they are paying the double, triple or quintuple amount of TP for an item, they are not aware of the issue and thus don't feel like they are getting screwed. That doesn't mean that it is fair.
If you think there are points that I missed, you can add them, but that doesn't make my other points unfair.

I sincerely hope you're serious. As for me, I'm not trying to solicit a response from you, as evidenced by the fact that I'm now on ''ignore'', so please don't feel obligated.

I hoped ignoring someone would make any replies disappear, but they still show when you have replied and I decided to look what you had responded. Since your response was more serious than the previous ones, I decided to reply. ^^

[The_Jagannath]

If I have been unfair in LOTRO, it was not my intention. Either way, it is not relevant...

Yeah, because I can't imagine why that would be relevant in a discussion about fairness, but seeing as how your character is completely off limits, I guess there's no real point in continuing this conversation. Based on what little interaction I've seen from you, I think you're much too stubborn to concede an argument let alone argue in good faith.

... I hoped ignoring someone would make any replies disappear, but they still show when you have replied and I decided to look what you had responded. Since your response was more serious than the previous ones, I decided to reply. ^^

Then I guess you're just going to have to exercise a little more restraint in the future so you don't end up with all this egg on your face. Your post contains so many illogical leaps and contradictions it refutes itself. You already lost the argument but you're just too ignorant to realize it. Your answer provides no new information that hasn't already been succinctly debunked and is just another futile attempt by you to blow smoke up peoples' @$$e$ by laying an unjust claim to some perceived moral high ground. The sad part is, is that you could probably make the point you want to make if you would leave out all the bull$#!t and stop arguing so poorly.

[DiogoVP]

Just popping in to let you know that we've gotten the feedback. Thanks for posting this!

It's sad that you never fixed that while you were still working for SSG. It's been almost 3 years since this was pointed out and nothing has been done. Many people still buy scrolls and crystals on sale thinking they paying less, but actually paying more if they just knew that it's cheaper with MCs.