U18.2B1 Eriador frills increase

[YamydeAragon]

... But a little constructive feedback: it seems to me Archet has far too many flowers. Not that it is not possible, but it changes somewhat the 'character' and atmosphere of the original place. Grass is fine, but I think less flowers would keep more with the original concept of Archet...

I got the same feeling, i was chocked by so many flowers at Archet outside the inner gate. Allright there it can have lot of frill & flowers (but not too many flowers). It is inside the town that the frill must be absent because the town just got burned down.

It's like the people of Eriador just gave up on spraying Roundup entirely.

I'm okay with the frills being added, but if the additional graphics cause lag spikes (as they do in MT) then I'm turning them off ASAP. Game play > appearance.

Then that is why there are several frill options because some people lag more than others & some don't lag anything. So that issue is already addressed.

[Aphasial]

These new revitalizations are wonderful! I can't wait to see them on live.

Regarding performance: It's important to keep in mind that these original areas were first brought in in 2007, and many had a lot of initial layout work done back in 2003. The performance of modern systems FAR exceeds what we were working with back then (as evidenced by current landscape areas), so it's absolutely fine to bring them up to spec.

Of course, you don't want to go TOO overboard, but from what I've seen so far they've been doing a good job. I also like that areas are maintaining their individual character. It's not just a bunch of flowers evenly distributed across the entire region, but is varied and appropriate for the geography.


Well done, Turbine! <3 Yay Quality of Life!

[hobbit1968]

IM VERY IMPRESSED, Never thought I would see anything like this so far into the game. Awesome

[Laerien]

The screenshots looks nice but that is not the whole story. First, if the frills will pop-up (even on ultra) like Barrow's on movement, then it will be a glitchy mess.

Second, have you ever seen areas like Rohan, etc. with frills turned off? it looks horrible. Turning off frills in Eriador will disable everything not just the new grass and flowers.

Here you can see the difference between frills on/off (Live, 1080p ultra-high)

http://imgur.com/a/utL8Q

I'm ok if they add an option to disable the new ones and the terrain looks exactly the same as before, otherwise, adding these will force people to turn everything off to be able to play the game or to play the game on steady 60FPS; and NO, this is not solved with new hardware; the new areas/graphic additions in LotRO have degraded the overall game performance to the bottom even on high-end systems.

[Emere]

Awful silly to have high grass in a public park? That's what parks are for: green growth and letting things grow. Oh my Valar, if it isn't the music mafia demanding special snowflake treatment again. Just because something on the public landscape doesn't satisfy your personal RP vision is no reason to ask for its removal and deprive others from enjoying it. Personally I love the tall grass added to the Bree park, freshens up the area and makes it more pleasant and organic to be in. Makes me want to spend more time there, now that it no longer looks like a plastic artificial turf from 1950s.



Please do not speak for "most of us." My kinship and other allied kins who put on social events at the Bree stage enjoy all these benches and use them for sitting. Or for standing on, or dancing on, as an excited audience tends to do. Funny, we never have a problem with room for dancing around because we just dance and don't let anything bother us.
Really cannot understand the entitlement attitude demanding change in public landscape just because it doesn't accommodate some selective in-group's agenda.

Yeah, I suppose you are correct. I googled public parks and was overwhelmed at how many pictures popped up of overgrown parks..../sarcasm
Yes, its me, lonely ol me, a mafia of one. Of course, making a personal observation of preference is in no way demanding so I must ask, did I do something to anger you so? Why spew your venom on me unless its personal, and if so, take it up with me in tells in game. Unless of course I already had to put you on ignore for such assaults on my character before. Oh, and just because something fits your personal RP vision, is no reason to ask for it to remain....
As for most of us, I was speaking for the many friends of mine who do perform there at the stage or attend the shows and have mentioned the desire to see the benches completely or partially removed to allow for them to have more room to dance. So I do apologize that you felt I was including you as one of my friends. Rest assured, I didn't intend for my comment to include you as well. I will try to be more specific next time.

[Silmelin]

Erennor, I really really appreciate you sharing those screenshot comparisons with us! Thank you!

[Vellrad]

I always turn off grass in games.
No longer.
Once in a while even turbine can make something good it seams.

[Zaddoc]

Looks amazing thank you Turbine. Just going to have to take all my screenshots again!

It has breathed new life in the older areas and has modernised the game no end.



Just wondering though, would it finally be possible to end the pixelated tree issue? It's still an issue in quite a few places around Eriador?

[Erennor]

Now that I have seen more and spent even more time exploring, further feedback concerning the added frills in Eriador.

First, it is good to see more time and care put back in the graphics of the older areas. Though they were beautiful before, now they look much more up to date with the later half of the game. But, it seems they have overdone it in a few places/spots. Trollshaws, (except the High Moors perhaps) it seems to me that the added plant life is too much. This region already was/is very rich in green and plants of various kinds and shapes, so adding even much more to it is excessive. Now Rivendell: outside the house of Elrond, it seems overgrown and somewhat 'wild', and the iconic Last Homely House is now covered almost entirely from view by the addition of more trees right in front of the house. This was very disappointing to see, and again takes steps away from the first excellent visualization of this place and the clear view of the Last Homely House.

It is important keeping with the theme and style of the areas as they were made originally and enhancing that quality without changing the core element and way of depiction/vision. The visuals of the game and how places have been digitally illustrated even before this change and the later areas, have been loved by many.

But as was shown in the previous screenshots they have done a most excellent work from what I have seen with the following areas: Evendim, the Shire, Bree-lands, the Midgewater Marshes, Forochel, Lone-lands, and the Vale of Thrain. These all are enhanced very well with the added frills without losing anything of their authentic individuality or looking overdone.


Other than that, there are some patches of frills that look disconnected with the rest of the field, like a 'block' of almost wholly different kind which makes it stand out in an unattractive way. Also, there are some spots where npcs and objects (camp-fires, benches, and more) need to be moved a little as the added grass goes through them which is jarring to the eye. And there is grass in some spots where it does not look very natural, or at least not very well placed perhaps.

Last Homely House

Older version



Newer version

I hope it will not be left like that. The former, original version, is much more impressive. The Last Homely House, the focal point of the vale, and a moment that doubtless many new players that have read and loved the books look forward to seeing visualized in the game, is now put entirely out of the picture.

I have not yet explored Eregion, Angmar, Misty Mountains, and North Downs.

[Erennor]

I got the same feeling, i was chocked by so many flowers at Archet outside the inner gate. Allright there it can have lot of frill & flowers (but not too many flowers). It is inside the town that the frill must be absent because the town just got burned down.

Yea. To speak out my mind, I feel less excited now that I have seen a few/some other spots that are less well done. But most of all, very disappointing to see how the Last Homely House is almost all covered with additional trees. And there are some/a few small spots here and there that do not 'flow' seamlessly with the rest of the field but stick out like different patches of graphics. And there are many npcs and objects now that have grass through them as the screenshot above shows. It is still build 2, and yet, it is not that early if the update launches end of this month.

Erennor, I really really appreciate you sharing those screenshot comparisons with us! Thank you!

Thank you for your words! : ) Much time was spent for this, and sometimes it was difficult to find the same spot again on the live server.

[Dovakhim]

A very nice and unexpected good surprise that they put this in the game.

Kudos to Turbine for a change on this!

[Marcho_Brandybuck]

They did a good job, but some of the region look bad (elven part of Ered Luin, North Downs, etc...). However it is a matter of taste .

In Rivendell, a tree growing from one of the bridges. On the one near the the stables.

[YamydeAragon]

Yea. To speak out my mind, I feel less excited now that I have seen a few/some other spots that are less well done. But most of all, very disappointing to see how the Last Homely House is almost all covered with additional trees. And there are some/a few small spots here and there that do not 'flow' seamlessly with the rest of the field but stick out like different patches of graphics. And there are many npcs and objects now that have grass through them as the screenshot above shows. It is still build 2, and yet, it is not that early if the update launches end of this month.

Thank you for your words! : ) Much time was spent for this, and sometimes it was difficult to find the same spot again on the live server.

Yah, those NPCs need to be deweed, that is not healthy. The last Homely house probably didn't need the autum trees at front , though the smaller plants that got added at front looks perfect . I have no problem with seeing small loose grass over the stone covered yard at the the Perch because it looks quite natural, grass tend to do that a lot specially in subtropical places like the Shire that grass have a chance to grow all year round. So appart a few adjustments needed here & there this is a very welcome revamp!

[Erennor]

They did a good job, but some of the region look bad (elven part of Ered Luin, North Downs, etc...). However it is a matter of taste .

In Rivendell, a tree growing from one of the bridges. On the one near the the stables.

Indeed, they have done a most impressive work, and doubtless it took much time. It is evident, for otherwise the colors. shapes, and lengths would not match as they do (or at least in most/almost all cases). But it is not always a matter of taste. For example, a place is either too cluttered or it is not. The trees that have been added outside the Last Homely House cover it almost entirely: one of the most memorable images/views in the history of the game. Now hidden.

Yah, those NPCs need to be deweed, that is not healthy. The last Homely house probably didn't need the autum trees at front , though the smaller plants that got added at front looks perfect . I have no problem with seeing small loose grass over the stone covered yard at the the Perch because it looks quite natural, grass tend to do that a lot specially in subtropical places like the Shire that grass have a chance to grow all year round. So appart a few adjustments needed here & there this is a very welcome revamp!

Indeed, the grass and the plants seem well - it is the trees that change the whole image, in a negative/less favorable way, of that memorable place. As for grass over stone, I too have seen this on some real places over the years, but the difference here is that there is no crack visible whence the grass comes out. Instead it looks as if it stands on the stone surface, and thus less well placed. In any case, this is another example of excess. The stone texture outside the Golden Perch looks satisfying as the older version has it without adding overgrown grass over it.

[Older version]






I will post some more screenshots of great improvements soon. I explored a little Enedwaith today and it looks very good!


On another note, which area would you say now is your favorite concerning this addition?

For my part, from what I have seen so far, certainly Evendim. It seems to me that this is the most subtle and most seamless change/addition that works truly brilliant in bringing out the beauty and quality of that area, without adding to it, but rather extending, or that is the illusion it creates perhaps. It is so well done. Along with Evendim, or close second after it, Lone-lands. To me, this place always struck me as too sun-burned, in that the ground was alike, in a sense, a desert. Now with the added frills it looks much more like wilderness while still keeping the barren characteristic look of the land.

[YamydeAragon]

... As for grass over stone, I too have seen this on some real places over the years, but the difference here is that there is no crack visible whence the grass comes out. Instead it looks as if it stands on the stone surface, and thus less well placed...

But i have seeing this IRL. The grass not in existing cracks but growing over the stones because grass not only grow up but also sideways. & that grasses make new cracks when they dig their roots inside the stones.

[SkyWarpPro]

I love these new "frills". Especially in places like outside Ost Guruth, Evendim, and Esteldin. But the gardeners inside the towns seem to have gotten lazy. I would suggest cutting back within towns like Michel Delving, Rivendell, and a few others.

A couple regions (like Echad Dunann) I am not so sure about. The colors seem to be too green for the more brown undergrowth. When you look at a distance where the frills aren't drawing, the colors are totally different than up close.

I can hear the computer fans (video card I imagine mostly) hum a lot more (similar to the new areas) than it does without the frills. Hopefully this isn't too taxing on systems.

[Denhith]

I can hear the computer fans (video card I imagine mostly) hum a lot more (similar to the new areas) than it does without the frills. Hopefully this isn't too taxing on systems.

Again, as mentioned in another thread, while people may love the new frills, at what price? Honestly, the past 6 months has seen huge performance issues with this game. Those issues are still front and center. Why not try and re-optimize the game instead of adding things that will potentially make things worse? If you have to adjust your graphics in a newly updated "frill" zone to play with no performance issues what is the bloody point of adding the frill?? This game continues to have it's priorities backwards.

/shrug.

[Arbor]

I'll look into the Last Homely House thing.

If you guys do see frills sprouting through walkways, NPCs, etc., please bug them but if you see multiple locations, please put them all in one bug. It's easier for me to look at them that way.

[Dmira]

Last Homely House

Older version



Newer version

I hope it will not be left like that. The former, original version, is much more impressive. The Last Homely House, the focal point of the vale, and a moment that doubtless many new players that have read and loved the books look forward to seeing visualized in the game, is now put entirely out of the picture.

I agree. The new version looks horrible. Elrond would never let the area become overgrown like that.

[Winds]

I love these new "frills". Especially in places like outside Ost Guruth, Evendim, and Esteldin. But the gardeners inside the towns seem to have gotten lazy. I would suggest cutting back within towns like Michel Delving, Rivendell, and a few others.

A couple regions (like Echad Dunann) I am not so sure about. The colors seem to be too green for the more brown undergrowth. When you look at a distance where the frills aren't drawing, the colors are totally different than up close.

I can hear the computer fans (video card I imagine mostly) hum a lot more (similar to the new areas) than it does without the frills. Hopefully this isn't too taxing on systems.

Exact! Fix lag once for all and not make it worse! Also, places likes Ost Guruth were meant to be the way they used to be, why make them full of frills at this point?

[YamydeAragon]

Exact! Fix lag once for all and not make it worse! Also, places likes Ost Guruth were meant to be the way they used to be, why make them full of frills at this point?

Hostile to the humans doesn't mean absent of plants. There may not be rainy enough to have a humans farm (or maybe they can farm if the figured how to get the water from the clouds at Weathertop) but can rain just barely enough the wild plants adapted to arid weather strive & bloom. Someone may think that the salty lands on a desert that took shape out a of dried sea, like Lone Lands, could not support life right? Well that assumption is wrong! This picture is a real life salty lands on a desert that took shape out of a dried sea, it is called Desierto de Atacama:

[Laerien]

Except the Lone Lands are not the Atacama desert and the "flowering desert" is a rare phenomenon. Esto es la Tierra Media; no Chile.
------------

Still no answer about the performance impact and how the old zones will look (obviously worse) after the people -who can't endure playing at 20FPS- have to disable frills. Typical

[YamydeAragon]

Except the Lone Lands are not the Atacama desert and the "flowering desert" is a rare phenomenon. Esto es la Tierra Media; no Chile.
------------

Still no answer about the performance impact and how the old zones will look (obviously worse) after the people -who can't endure playing at 20FPS- have to disable frills. Typical

Exept you didnt read anything but the name of the place. It is the Same Kind Of Place geographically speaking. It is obvious that is not the same place, because one is the Earth planet & the other is a fantasy world inspired on our planet on a very distant past. Also Tolkiens was not a dummy, he knew his geography lessons so that very stable 4 years lapse season of the flowering desert existed. It have already proven that his description of Middle Earth was gegraphically viable: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...8IBxQE.twitter Also you ''forgot" that we cross Lone Lands right after Frodo did & there was a storm that night.

[Erennor]

I'll look into the Last Homely House thing.

If you guys do see frills sprouting through walkways, NPCs, etc., please bug them but if you see multiple locations, please put them all in one bug. It's easier for me to look at them that way.

Good to hear, and thank you.

There are very many such examples Arbor. Though this is certainly a visual improvement, and the areas look even more realistic and detailed and beautiful, they are not yet ready. There is a lot to do. Last night I spent much time exploring Eregion and today the Trollshaws. I found more than fifty such examples, perhaps close to one hundred. And that is only in these two regions. I have written down their locations as shown under the mini-map. I am not sure if I will have the spare time to dedicate more on this, as it seems they are everywhere so to speak, at almost every settlement/town/camp and pathway, and through stone walls and surfaces and even bridges (which naturally makes me wonder how can the artist/s have not noticed this while adding the frills, unless it is all computer-generated which in many parts seems unlikely). But I will try and do the rest tonight and then submit it all in one ticket as you have suggested.


Here is a quick video I made to get a foretaste of all this, if you have not already seen some of it. As we can see, there are even trees blocking bridges or/and on their stone surface.

[Thundertrain]

Here is a quick video I made to get a foretaste of all this, if you have not already seen some of it. As we can see, there are even trees blocking bridges or/and on their stone surface.

I have absolutely seen mailboxes that are almost overgrown with weeds. Might make the mailbox a bit hard to see in the game, but that is 100% accurate to real life. Sometimes, putting the mower away and coming all the way back to the mailbox with a weed trimmer is WAY too much work.

Other than that, I'm seeing exactly what you mean here. Seems a lot of folks are too lazy to clear out their fire pits when they camp, and are trying to start grass fires in the process. And while I can absolutely imagine the elves having their structures built around and even featuring trees as structural components, I'm positive they would not plant one right in the middle of the entrance to a bridge.