Podcast Interview with Cordovan and Made of Lions

[Shrewd1]

Hello everyone,

I recently had the chance to sit down with Cordovan and Made of Lions for an extensive interview on The Lord of the Rings Online. Topics covered include the challenge of writing quality content for an established universe such as LoTR, the challenges (and benefits?) of the free to play model and how they deal with criticism from the LOTRO community. Oh, and we did chat about the famous (or should I rather say infamous?) "Frodo's Burden" as well. If you'd like to give it a spin, here's the link:

http://soundcloud.com/andre-peschke/...lish-only-lord

As an aside, I'm from Germany and we're usually doing German content, so if my English isn't perfect, please cut me some slack. I did my best to avoid sounding like a James Bond villain. Thanks again to Cordovan and Made of Lions for taking the time and speaking so candidly on a wide range of what I hope are very compelling topics. I had a blast. I hope you'll have the same. If you guys have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them. Due to the scope and length of the interview, I won't be able to provide a transcript, however.

[Nymphonic]

That's awesome. I'm gonna listen while I'm at work tonight.

[Cordovan]

Thank you for the interview! It was fun to do.

[NeebPlayer]

OMG... we are being too easy on Cordovan. He just almost literally said that.

Just some feedback that sprang to my mind hearing about how you made Frodo's Burden. In U19 there is a quest where you follow Gimli in stealth to ambush a bunch of orcs that are trying to ambush you. When I first played this, I felt it was so short, it ended too quickly and there wasn't really much to avoid. Then I played the last instance, where you use distraction to avoid patrolling orcs, which I thought was awesome and we need more stuff like that. What 'im trying to get at is that these instances are pretty short and they kinda feel more like a narrative than a mission. These types of things should be missions where you get the sense that you accomplished something important. Imo, there is more pleasure to be derived from a stealth mission that required attention and thinking that one where we raid a camp following some NPCs, of which we have too many already.

[Oelle]

nice interview. nice talk. not really new information, but still nice to hear.

nur die hintergrundgeräusche sind ziemlich störend. fährt da alle nase lang ne straßenbahn vorbei und die wände wackeln?

[Laerien]

Thanks for the interview.

I did not expect Cordovan saying that we are a bunch of psychopaths or MoL saying there is nothing particulary interesting after the ring is destroyed, however, it has several interesting points (it would take me too much time to analyze of all of them in one thread).

For the records, I did enjoy Frodo's Burden quest. Those type of quests make this game unique. I prefer my character listening Frodo instead of repairing a fence.

[Shrewd1]

The background noises are somewhat weird. The intereference doesn't occur on my end (my mono track recorded in Audacity is just fine) but rather when Jeff and/or Jerry stop talking. It wasn't audible during the recording either. We've never had this problem before, so I can only guess as to what's responsible.

[LabadalofDorlomin]

Firstly - Please do not excuse yourself for your English speaking. It is fairly
faultless. I wish I could grasp a foreign language with such grace and ease.

Second - thank you for publishing this interview because the more we hear
from our new community leader the safer I feel as he seems to be quite a
straight talking kind of guy and the problems of the past whereby info is so
hard to come by - be it good or not so good, is very refreshing.

MoL as always never disappoints and so i'm not going to blow any more smoke
up his @ss (still disagree with the rope over the wall in caras galhadon but as
our past conversations have proved he will not admit it )

Also like the point where they seem to have plans post the ring being destroyed
which is really really cool and a comfort.

[Nymphonic]

Dude, your English is perfect. I wish my Tagalog was as fluid and clear as your English.

[Arnenna]

Just listened to this and really enjoyed it. It's always great to get a little bit of insight into the decisions and ongoings that happen in the background, and it helps people to understand why things unfold as they do.

Thanks MoL, Cordovan and Shrewd1 for your time in making it.

I found many parts of it reassuring, especially the information provided about trying to keep as many players as happy as possible, as often as possible. No playstyle likes being left behind, no matter what it is, and it's good to know that's never going to be part of the plan. I enjoy all aspects of the game, from simple walks through the World to taking on the harder content as time permits. The latter isn't a simple case of finding enough time to go into that content to do it, its about having enough time to train up a character with skills, gear up through progressive content, practise and eventually, get in there and try it out. Its great, but can be time consuming and involve long periods of time in game undisturbed, and that's not something I can always commit to all of the time (in fact, most of the time).

I happen to like Frodo's Burden I agree totally, that it needs to be there early on as it is. I remember the first day I played (talking to my hubby who had already played for 4 years before me) and asking him, within a few minutes of getting out of the intro. When will I see Frodo, when will I see Gandalf? It just wouldn't have been the same to not see them pretty early on as we do.

[Erennor]

To start with, excellent, professionally conducted interview. It was clear to me as I was listening that you were well prepared: the questions were very good and asked in an effective manner, and in general the flow was fluid, running clear and smoothly like water. And your extensive knowledge of the game and its different eras and wide changes that it has seen, certainly helps, both in asking and replying to what is said.

Very enjoyable. Well done and thank you for this.

Though I don't want to write now extensively about this exploring other related angles and touching on underlying processes, more should be said concerning the instance 'Frodo's Burden' (but in general for other such quests too). I was glad to hear Jeff say what he did, and if you are now reading this, please be assured you did well.

I too would not repeat such instances many times, yet even so, I would not ask for their removal or even a change in them making them swifter. Such visual story-telling instances should remain unspoiled and available to be experienced in their entirety, so that all have the chance to see them at least once. It is after all The Lord of the Rings, and to have such scenes from the story visualized in-game, apart from something more to marvel at, it transports one into the main narrative (and that can be also a key promotional point from a marketing/advertising perspective). Players that complain about the long nature of it and the lack of action in deeds, and want such experiences removed from the game, while it is likely enough not intended so/unconscious, it is a selfish thought. For by that thinking we do not take into account the newcomers to the game, and LotRO still gets many of them. Merely because older players have experienced a quest the first time, and don't like repeating it (and that is understandable) that should not make less of the new players that have come after us, and still come, so that they never get to experience such immersive characteristic moments.

The/a solution to this that seems that would please everyone would be to have the option to skip it on alt characters. That is wiser to ask and give input for than asking the removal of such experiences from the game which may be yet another feature that sets LotRO apart from other MMOs where story and immersion cannot outmatch that of Tolkien's world.

[Arnenna]

To start with, excellent, professionally conducted interview. It was clear to me as I was listening that you were well prepared: the questions were very good and asked in an effective manner, and in general the flow was fluid, running clear and smoothly like water. And your extensive knowledge of the game and its different eras and wide changes that it has seen, certainly helps, both in asking and replying to what is said.

Very enjoyable. Well done and thank you for this.

Though I don't want to write now extensively about this exploring other related angles and touching on underlying processes, more should be said concerning the instance 'Frodo's Burden' (but in general for other such quests too). I was glad to hear Jeff say what he did, and if you are now reading this, please be assured you did well.

I too would not repeat such instances many times, yet even so, I would not ask for their removal or even a change in them making them swifter. Such visual story-telling instances should remain unspoiled and available to be experienced in their entirety, so that all have the chance to see them at least once. It is after all The Lord of the Rings, and to have such scenes from the story visualized in-game, apart from something more to marvel at, it transports one into the main narrative (and that can be also a key promotional point from a marketing/advertising perspective). Players that complain about the long nature of it and the lack of action in deeds, and want such experiences removed from the game, while it is likely enough not intended so/unconscious, it is a selfish thought. For by that thinking we do not take into account the newcomers to the game, and LotRO still gets many of them. Merely because older players have experienced a quest the first time, and don't like repeating it (and that is understandable) that should not make less of the new players that have come after us, and still come, so that they never get to experience such immersive characteristic moments.

The/a solution to this that seems that would please everyone would be to have the option to skip it on alt characters. That is wiser to ask and give input for than asking the removal of such experiences from the game which may be yet another feature that sets LotRO apart from other MMOs where story and immersion cannot outmatch that of Tolkien's world.

I love how you write.

[Al.]

Anyone know if there is a transcript somewhere?

[cdq1958]

OMG... we are being too easy on Cordovan. He just almost literally said that.

Just some feedback that sprang to my mind hearing about how you made Frodo's Burden. In U19 there is a quest where you follow Gimli in stealth to ambush a bunch of orcs that are trying to ambush you. When I first played this, I felt it was so short, it ended too quickly and there wasn't really much to avoid. Then I played the last instance, where you use distraction to avoid patrolling orcs, which I thought was awesome and we need more stuff like that. What 'im trying to get at is that these instances are pretty short and they kinda feel more like a narrative than a mission. These types of things should be missions where you get the sense that you accomplished something important. Imo, there is more pleasure to be derived from a stealth mission that required attention and thinking that one where we raid a camp following some NPCs, of which we have too many already.

I'd rather they not be missions, where fighting is emphasized, but I'd support an optional form like that.

[bambubambubambu]

Great job on this interview! It was cool to hear MoL discuss the content like that and get a peek inside his process. Plus, I finally know the full backstory of the Evendim boar quest!

That part about interacting with NPCs in this game more than relatives was just too funny. And so true!

[DKenny]

....As an aside, I'm from Germany and we're usually doing German content, so if my English isn't perfect, please cut me some slack. I did my best to avoid sounding like a James Bond villain. ...

With that great sense of humour you earned as much "slack" as you want in my book.

[Erennor]

I love how you write.

Thank you Arnenna; although I am merely greatly inspired by the books: many words, talks, various aspects, and some other details from Tolkien's writings echo in my thought when talking about LotRO and all related things to it. So I owe it there : ) But thank you still!

[Laerien]

MoL basically said that F2P model does not influence the quests design.

This is interesting because I always wonder if it would be different that these two types of quests, NPC's playing ping pong or yo-yo with your character.

An example, of a Yo-yo quest chain.

This Quickbeam NPC sends me to Isengard (after completing the Epic I have to return to Isengard, I'm sick of Isengard) to look for orcs... when I'm in the farest place inside an instance I have to return to talk to him; for a warden is not a big problem, port to Helm's Deep then back to Isengard entrance; back to Quickbeam, guess what?, now he sends me to the opposite direction to find 3 seeds. Obviously, when I'm in the farest place inside an empty Uruk camp, I have to return to talk to him. Yes, you guessed, now back to Isengard again! to plant the seeds; now go back to use the port to Derdingle.

The yo-yo story does not end there, now he goes insane. He wants me to check the 3 vertices or the Entwood area (triangle)...

This is just one example of many. I'm feeling that I'm being heavy trolled by the game to use Mithril Coins

[kickman77]

MoL basically said that F2P model does not influence the quests design.

This is interesting because I always wonder if it would be different that these two types of quests, NPC's playing ping pong or yo-yo with your character.

An example, of a Yo-yo quest chain.

This Quickbeam NPC sends me to Isengard (after completing the Epic I have to return to Isengard, I'm sick of Isengard) to look for orcs... when I'm in the farest place inside an instance I have to return to talk to him; for a warden is not a big problem, port to Helm's Deep then back to Isengard entrance; back to Quickbeam, guess what?, now he sends me to the opposite direction to find 3 seeds. Obviously, when I'm in the farest place inside an empty Uruk camp, I have to return to talk to him. Yes, you guessed, now back to Isengard again! to plant the seeds; now go back to use the port to Derdingle.

The yo-yo story does not end there, now he goes insane. He wants me to check the 3 vertices or the Entwood area (triangle)...

This is just one example of many. I'm feeling that I'm being heavy trolled by the game to use Mithril Coins

^^^^

this 100 times this. It actually seems like these yo-yo quest expanded with the introduction of Mithril coins for the express purpose of garnering sales. We the players get Turbine is a company that needs to make a profit. What Turbine does not understand (and from watching them for years has never understood and probably will never get) is, mechanics like this are a turn off to players. its one thing to ask for money.. Premium housing is a great exampple of how to make money from players... making quest chains that are so mind numbing because of the constant running back and forth that players feel the need to purchase Mithril just to get them done is not. This came to major light with the Forlon the Fat quest chain in Minas Tirith. The first time I ran this chain I said right away... yep, they are gonna add mithril travels for all these running back and forths and make it seem like a gift to us that we have to pay for it. Sure enough, the next update comes and there goes the mithril travels. They rewarded us by having to pay, I know a lot of people who have outright refused to buy that quest area (MT) and Old Anorien because of these types of quest chains. So in essence with the vain to make more $$$ quickly with this type of design they have lost.... yet they continue to do it over and over.