Producer letter

[NeebPlayer]

I don't know why people need a producer letter, we already know exactly what's coming the next 10 months.

1. Spring update, March Dagorlad quest pack, herbalist continuation. at least 2 new group instances.

2. Summer/Fall update Part 1 of 3 of Mordor Expansion, group instances / maybe a raid.

3. Mordor Expansion will likely see an opt-in update to character model textures.

All of these things have been said in either Dadi's interviews or Friday stream with Cordovan.

Only things we need confirmation on are 10th anniversary item benefits, new pvmp armor / crafting tiers, and whether or not Mordor gets a raid.

The EP letter is only worth anything if it has some specifics we don't know yet. For instance, what kind of level cap raise to expect. When we were getting 105, EP letter had told that in advance. It's almost February, I would expect some things to be solidifying enough to be told.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

The new letter is coming in a few weeks i think Cordovan said they working on it for French and German too then get it ready to post

[NickSlaughter]

What can you expect of a newly formed company that already has their new logo in the game but is unable to create a company website and openly proclaims that this is "on their to-do list"?

i dont expect more than from turbine, which is little more than nothing... and they didnt do anything to change my mind about it

I don't know why people need a producer letter, we already know exactly what's coming the next 10 months.

1. Spring update, March Dagorlad quest pack, herbalist continuation. at least 2 new group instances.

2. Summer/Fall update Part 1 of 3 of Mordor Expansion, group instances / maybe a raid.

3. Mordor Expansion will likely see an opt-in update to character model textures.

All of these things have been said in either Dadi's interviews or Friday stream with Cordovan.

Only things we need confirmation on are 10th anniversary item benefits, new pvmp armor / crafting tiers, and whether or not Mordor gets a raid.

huh? so we dont know anything, cuz your exactly is just about borders... which can be changed in a week... = noone cares and many ppl like me are still pissed on EU servers with us lag - such scams arent making you more trusthworthy, are they?

as i said elsewhere, i am not curious about Daddis interviews (i dont subscribe to him, he isnt official etc., he is just some fanboi replacing player's council, after all, which isnt great idea)

i think we deserve letter, official statement, on official forum... and during its right time (around first week in a year)
-> we got nuts, some silly interview and partialy bad news - who cares about festivals after years? they are all same, turn on/off... just more daily grind, no fest at all in my eyes (when i am playing 2years), sure, few queer cosmetics (antlers for horses, realy lore based and natural... sorry, its just sick those things... make deer or whatever, if u want antlers... we know they can do enedwaith black goat, something different, or same, snow beast... but antlers for horse, please... what will be next? turtle and frog caparison?)

ye, we know about more flower grind, which none player is supporting, great... expecting kudos?
then we know something about mordor, dagorlad and expansion - all are like empty frame infos

what i am looking for - instances? raid loot/locks? new level cap? why and when? new armours with new expansion, new essences...? i saw something about remaking classes (this is partialy good news, but i am also very scared). what about FIs? tons ppl said it should be t1/t2 105, not t1 105 and 101 (?) faceroll contest
- did u try actual OD fi? first run i did this week took over hour... leader nab, one rat, he was first dead vs trees etc. - please do something with that, cuz FI raids have to be pugged and its bloody mess, its also disgusting for fs t2c/raiding ppl (and wannabes like me )

The new letter is coming in a few weeks i think Cordovan said they working on it for French and German too then get it ready to post

ye ye make it few months and we wouldnt care... i saw something about such translation week back - sorry, their turtle speed is amazing and as its repetetive and issues with everything (turbine or ssg), who cares? u cant keep it such way forever, its just pathetic and showing up just incompetent approach



overall... with that GREAT change from Turbine into SSG... i am not impressed, i tried pvmp little more recently (creep) and still no, no reason to pay for VIP if the things go this way
so i am realy sorry if i am annoying with my criticism, but i feel like Frodo here... the hope is tiny here

[Cordovan]

A first draft has been written of the next producer's letter, and the goal is to get it out within the next couple of weeks, sooner rather than later if possible.

[Amorey]

A first draft has been written of the next producer's letter, and the goal is to get it out within the next couple of weeks, sooner rather than later

That is great to know

Thank You Cordovan and EP

[Cambruyn]

So a producer's letter has been in the works for all this time and just now a first draft has been completed?! A couple more weeks is the goal? Come on guys, are you kidding? Was there another 2-week holiday period we were not aware of? Ludicrous.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

So a producer's letter has been in the works for all this time and just now a first draft has been completed?! A couple more weeks is the goal? Come on guys, are you kidding? Was there another 2-week holiday period we were not aware of? Ludicrous.

Planned not started until 2017. Standing Stone Games is probably like the company I work for. The company basically shuts down for 3 works of holidays. Nothing gets done after Thursday December 15, 2016 until January 9, 2017.

You get back on the 9th and there is a big startup penalty. Things have piled up. It is hardly a surprise it takes more than a week to get the first draft done. It is an official customer document. These kind of documents always take a long time because they have to be approved by multiple people. Go to the legal department. Be translated.

It takes the companies that I worked for at least 30 days to do a single language version of this kind of document. Multiple languages - 60 to 90 days.

[TaSwavo4God]

Planned not started until 2017. Standing Stone Games is probably like the company I work for. The company basically shuts down for 3 works of holidays. Nothing gets done after Thursday December 15, 2016 until January 9, 2017.

You get back on the 9th and there is a big startup penalty. Things have piled up. It is hardly a surprise it takes more than a week to get the first draft done. It is an official customer document. These kind of documents always take a long time because they have to be approved by multiple people. Go to the legal department. Be translated.

It takes the companies that I worked for at least 30 days to do a single language version of this kind of document. Multiple languages - 60 to 90 days.

Thanks Yula_the_Mighty. You're right.

Problem with some of the other posters is they don't realise that professional companies don't just 'slap it through Google Translate' and post online. Their world is simple - it does not involve a contract with an outside agency to do the translation. It does not involve verification of facts the Producer might have stated, or a discussion on how it should be worded for the least confusion.

Sure, I've not worked with a company that closes down for 3 weeks (3 or 4 days maybe) but that isn't to say that the 'Producer' didn't take 3 weeks - you do have vacation time in American jobs right? Is the head of SSG not allowed vacation? I know that a number of the 'louder' people on the forum may not have a job but they should realise that all the people at SSG do their job just like everyone else. They have holidays, vacations, illness. But most of all, businesses want to get things right and dashing something out because someone demands something (they have no right to) immediately is pretty much ignorant of the real world.

[bucko39]

But most of all, businesses want to get things right and dashing something out because someone demands something (they have no right to) immediately is pretty much ignorant of the real world.

This statement is a bit ironic, considering the past producer's letters have had their share of spelling errors and the most recent one from the current team was basically formatted like it was an email sent to a co-worker (i.e. lacking in presentation and content--nothing professional about it all, really).

Alas, I think we put too much focus on the producer letter itself. I'd prefer a steady flow of communication from the dev team vs. acting like beggars looking for scraps of information that may or may not be contained in an annual letter.

[siipperi]

This statement is a bit ironic, considering the past producer's letters have had their share of spelling errors and the most recent one from the current team was basically formatted like it was an email sent to a co-worker (i.e. lacking in presentation and content--nothing professional about it all, really).

Alas, I think we put too much focus on the producer letter itself. I'd prefer a steady flow of communication from the dev team vs. acting like beggars looking for scraps of information that may or may not be contained in an annual letter.

They communicate all the time. Like we know they have let us know like half of features already what we expect this year.

[NeebPlayer]

This statement is a bit ironic, considering the past producer's letters have had their share of spelling errors and the most recent one from the current team was basically formatted like it was an email sent to a co-worker (i.e. lacking in presentation and content--nothing professional about it all, really).

Alas, I think we put too much focus on the producer letter itself. I'd prefer a steady flow of communication from the dev team vs. acting like beggars looking for scraps of information that may or may not be contained in an annual letter.

This EP letter is directed at the players and it doesn't need to be a formal letter, imo. I like this team's approach and the way they talk.

It's always been weird to me that players in this game effectively demand the producer letter. Is it like this in other games, too? One would expect this to be something they "surprise" us with from time to time. An EP letter that's supposed to come at the beginning of the year to inform us what to expect this year could be anywhere around January/February, yet here we are (the players), it's Jan 1st, and we are already freaking out about it and demanding it as if it was supposed to arrive on the very first day of the year. It does feel beggar-ish.

But also, trust me, this does nothing to accelerate the process. If they weren't meaning to release it soon, they would not even respond at all. It's not coming out because we are asking for it, it's coming because they wanted to do it, anyway. If there is anything I've learned about this team, it's you can't get anything out of them that they don't want to say, and you can't get them to do anything they don't want to do. In other words, player demands are not just undignified, they're pointless.

[Cambruyn]

This statement is a bit ironic, considering the past producer's letters have had their share of spelling errors and the most recent one from the current team was basically formatted like it was an email sent to a co-worker (i.e. lacking in presentation and content--nothing professional about it all, really).

Alas, I think we put too much focus on the producer letter itself. I'd prefer a steady flow of communication from the dev team vs. acting like beggars looking for scraps of information that may or may not be contained in an annual letter.

Agreed. But a producer's letter may attract a larger crowd, whereas 'better communication' reaches only those already here, those already listening. I feel as if they haven't done anything at all to capitalize on the press coverage -which is already waning fast- of the past few weeks. It's not so much the letter i'm looking forward to, it's a sign of their dedication, a sign of their enthousiasm. I see absolutely none of it and this for a newly formed independant company?!

I don't know what company policy they keep, but to me it just seems like the same old sh*t we've been seeing ever since WB took the reins. Which is fine, we're still here. We managed to sit through Isengard and it's lackluster endgame, Rohan and it's incredibly flawed mounted combat which still feels like a gimmick gone bad, Helm's Deep and it's everything-but-Epic Battles and today's... what? New neighbourhoods and flower picking?

The more I think of it, the more I'm convinced the patient ones are right; it's not the least bit important. Take all the time you need.

[daedalusAI]

I don't know why people need a producer letter, we already know exactly what's coming the next 10 months.

1. Spring update, March Dagorlad quest pack, herbalist continuation. at least 2 new group instances.

2. Summer/Fall update Part 1 of 3 of Mordor Expansion, group instances / maybe a raid.

3. Mordor Expansion will likely see an opt-in update to character model textures.

All of these things have been said in either Dadi's interviews or Friday stream with Cordovan.

Only things we need confirmation on are 10th anniversary item benefits, new pvmp armor / crafting tiers, and whether or not Mordor gets a raid.

It's rather simple:

1. There is next to no communication from the "officials" and even the few producer letter that were made last near have been mostly a joke at best.
2. I'm still waiting until beorning, blue burg and yellow warden are actually playable. How many years do I have to wait until they recognize that beorning is broken beyond repair? The creation of the class itself was over 2 years ago and of substance has been done on the class so far.

[daedalusAI]

Agreed. But a producer's letter may attract a larger crowd, whereas 'better communication' reaches only those already here, those already listening. I feel as if they haven't done anything at all to capitalize on the press coverage -which is already waning fast- of the past few weeks. It's not so much the letter i'm looking forward to, it's a sign of their dedication, a sign of their enthousiasm. I see absolutely none of it and this for a newly formed independant company?!

I don't know what company policy they keep, but to me it just seems like the same old sh*t we've been seeing ever since WB took the reins. Which is fine, we're still here. We managed to sit through Isengard and it's lackluster endgame, Rohan and it's incredibly flawed mounted combat which still feels like a gimmick gone bad, Helm's Deep and it's everything-but-Epic Battles and today's... what? New neighbourhoods and flower picking?

The more I think of it, the more I'm convinced the patient ones are right; it's not the least bit important. Take all the time you need.

What exactly do you mean with that highlighted passage?

They already branded the game with that SSG logo but are unable to create a producer's letter, unable to create a meaningful company website and are still communicating as if they were still with turbine.
The only few in here that are patient are the one who either 1. refuse to accept reality that so far SSG = turbine or 2. have given up all hope and make the best of what is being regurgitated by SSG.


Let's do a through experiment in which you are the deciding figure behind SSG and you just parted ways with turbine and now you have full control over all decisions regarding lotro.
What do you do to appease your playerbase that they and the game are no longer being neglected as a way to honor your statement of "...are thrilled to be able to take these games in exciting directions for a long time to come"?
Source for that claim: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...Transition-FAQ

1. Continue to act and behave like turbine did - next no communication, every issue with the game that has been voiced for years is still being ignored, a company website that only links to both ddo's and lotro's site, etc. In general showing your playerbase that you really don't care at all about all their complaints and thus expose your lack of common sense because that is no way to treat a customer.

Imagine ordering a meal in a restaurant and you get something that is overcooked, bland and smelly as if left open to rot for some time. You complain to the waiter, he seems like he's listening to you and walks away and nothing. You sit there in front of this "food" waiting for a something new and edible to arrive - but neither the waiter nor the owner seem to care that you have been served something this dismal.

2. Take the golden opportunity of being your own man and no longer with turbine and you immediately break with all the bad habits and laziness that was practiced by turbine and you start communicating with your playerbase, assure them that all the complaints have been noted and are looked into and you even created a producer's letter where you actually present a rough road-map of what's to come and doing your utmost to re-gain the favor of your playerbase. And your appointed CM is actually doing his job of being the middle-man between player and developer and actively searching for issues brought up in threads.

Back to the restaurant example: I complain again but now do a different waiter. This one is compelled to serving the best food possible and is shocked at what I've been given by the other waiter. He goes back to the kitchen and after short wait I have something to eat that is actually edible and tasty.


Chosing option 2 should be common sense and a no-brainer considering how abysmal turbines reputation is on this forum - and yet SSG so far chose option 1 of upholding that status quo which turbine coined.

[NickSlaughter]

So a producer's letter has been in the works for all this time and just now a first draft has been completed?! A couple more weeks is the goal? Come on guys, are you kidding? Was there another 2-week holiday period we were not aware of? Ludicrous.

i think they are just moving it into position that noone gives a f...

Thanks Yula_the_Mighty. You're right.

Problem with some of the other posters is they don't realise that professional companies don't just 'slap it through Google Translate' and post online.

u sound like a joke... professional companies? not case of Turbine or SSG...

from post after u... i will summarize:

1. pro companies have priorities and dont mind about holidays - i will repeat, please stop this dumb excuse argument for everything, it became pathetic few years back here or during each maintenance and follow up hotfix (all times, for godsake! - is it professional, how?) and please, we dont know if SSG had x weeks vacation or not, less speculations will be more handy
2. they were able to come out with such letter in right time last year... then all those excuses - u know, Pirlo is not impressed
3. some guy above said more about translation last year. i dont remember and i dont care, i am not native english guy (which is probably obvious) - i dont care about frame/shape, i care about content/subject


this game sux, cuz flowers and endgame contest sux, cuz broken classes, stats, fi, pvmp and devs dont have mainly ideas about it (BR and the feedback, its all times miss or hit)... i am curious about features, if u persist on flowers in u20 and other dumb ideas... i will simply go play something else, than fullfilling 250 daily quests for herbalists or run brainless FIs

but i can congratulate to everyone for finishing off those 250quests, here is the mark of no lifer, enjoy - do more things like that and i will better go - and thats why producer letter and your approach for actual lotro year is important for me, simple...



and this topic is over, we will wait x weeks, we know it now, thx for nothing

p.s. fix damn forum, crashing anytime i wanna post something, or make preview... few days now... and no, its not issue on my side... all other pages run smoothly

[Nzin]

I agree 100% with what daedalusAI said. If the company doesn't change its attitude toward their customers, neither they nor the game has much hope of lasting. Changes need to happen immediately, if not sooner and communicating those changes in a timely manner is not optional.

[NeoBasilisk]

What exactly do you mean with that highlighted passage?

They already branded the game with that SSG logo but are unable to create a producer's letter, unable to create a meaningful company website and are still communicating as if they were still with turbine.
The only few in here that are patient are the one who either 1. refuse to accept reality that so far SSG = turbine or 2. have given up all hope and make the best of what is being regurgitated by SSG.


Let's do a through experiment in which you are the deciding figure behind SSG and you just parted ways with turbine and now you have full control over all decisions regarding lotro.
What do you do to appease your playerbase that they and the game are no longer being neglected as a way to honor your statement of "...are thrilled to be able to take these games in exciting directions for a long time to come"?
Source for that claim: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...Transition-FAQ

1. Continue to act and behave like turbine did - next no communication, every issue with the game that has been voiced for years is still being ignored, a company website that only links to both ddo's and lotro's site, etc. In general showing your playerbase that you really don't care at all about all their complaints and thus expose your lack of common sense because that is no way to treat a customer.

Imagine ordering a meal in a restaurant and you get something that is overcooked, bland and smelly as if left open to rot for some time. You complain to the waiter, he seems like he's listening to you and walks away and nothing. You sit there in front of this "food" waiting for a something new and edible to arrive - but neither the waiter nor the owner seem to care that you have been served something this dismal.

2. Take the golden opportunity of being your own man and no longer with turbine and you immediately break with all the bad habits and laziness that was practiced by turbine and you start communicating with your playerbase, assure them that all the complaints have been noted and are looked into and you even created a producer's letter where you actually present a rough road-map of what's to come and doing your utmost to re-gain the favor of your playerbase. And your appointed CM is actually doing his job of being the middle-man between player and developer and actively searching for issues brought up in threads.

Back to the restaurant example: I complain again but now do a different waiter. This one is compelled to serving the best food possible and is shocked at what I've been given by the other waiter. He goes back to the kitchen and after short wait I have something to eat that is actually edible and tasty.


Chosing option 2 should be common sense and a no-brainer considering how abysmal turbines reputation is on this forum - and yet SSG so far chose option 1 of upholding that status quo which turbine coined.

I think it's cute that you think comparing a restaurant to a MMO is remotely useful.

[Korandon]

I think it's cute that you think comparing a restaurant to a MMO is remotely useful.

I think it's cute you thought your reply was remotely useful.

[OldMadeOfLions]

comparing a restaurant to a MMO

When I first started working on LOTRO back in 2005, a few of the other members of the design team were trying to explain the difference between working on a game before release and working on it after release, in a Live environment. One of the things they said that's always stuck with me is: 'In a Live game, players are going to be comparing the game to restaurants a lot."

As a result, every time I see a Restaurant Analogy it brings a smile to my face -- and by now I've seen quite a few!

I'm really proud of LOTRO, and we're always working to make it better. If this *were* a Middle-earth fusion restaurant, I'd be spending most of my time in the kitchen working on the Next Big Entree, but I'd also be running back to the swinging door every so often to try and gauge how the previous Entree was received. The meal I'm creating is always going to be based on my recipe, but there's room in most dishes for creative alterations based on tasters' feedback. After all, I really like working in this particular kitchen, and if you like the meals I'll get to keep wearing my chef's hat.

MoL

[Nymphonic]

When I first started working on LOTRO back in 2005, a few of the other members of the design team were trying to explain the difference between working on a game before release and working on it after release, in a Live environment. One of the things they said that's always stuck with me is: 'In a Live game, players are going to be comparing the game to restaurants a lot."

As a result, every time I see a Restaurant Analogy it brings a smile to my face -- and by now I've seen quite a few!

I'm really proud of LOTRO, and we're always working to make it better. If this *were* a Middle-earth fusion restaurant, I'd be spending most of my time in the kitchen working on the Next Big Entree, but I'd also be running back to the swinging door every so often to try and gauge how the previous Entree was received. The meal I'm creating is always going to be based on my recipe, but there's room in most dishes for creative alterations based on tasters' feedback. After all, I really like working in this particular kitchen, and if you like the meals I'll get to keep wearing my chef's hat.

MoL

MOL, I love your stuff, I really do, and I hope you stay around for a long, long time. But please, no more quest chains having me run all over the place for 3 dudes on the 3rd level of a large city. If you have to, at least put a milestone or stable master near by. The storyline for them was fantastic, I loved it. But man, they were worst than Rangers with having me run all over the place!

[OldMadeOfLions]

But please, no more quest chains having me run all over the place for 3 dudes on the 3rd level of a large city... The storyline for them was fantastic, I loved it.

As with most restaurants, we have a lot of chefs -- I can't take the lumps for the frustrations or the credit for the compliments on that particular meal.

MoL

[kickman77]

As with most restaurants, we have a lot of chefs -- I can't take the lumps for the frustrations or the credit for the compliments on that particular meal.

MoL

.
yeah that meal was so bad I have only gotten it once and will never order again with great loss and sadness because it had potential... maybe you can go alter the recipe a bit and make it more palatable for us

[cdq1958]

MOL, I love your stuff, I really do, and I hope you stay around for a long, long time. But please, no more quest chains having me run all over the place for 3 dudes on the 3rd level of a large city. If you have to, at least put a milestone or stable master near by. The storyline for them was fantastic, I loved it. But man, they were worst than Rangers with having me run all over the place!

I, on the other hand, loved that line. I will run it every time I can.

[Fealhach]

As with most restaurants, we have a lot of chefs -- I can't take the lumps for the frustrations or the credit for the compliments on that particular meal.

MoL

That particularly meal was like a seven course meal (over seven tiers) where I didn't eat them in any particular order and kept revisiting earlier courses, resulting in me having a large dose of indigestion. The meal itself wasn't bad, I just could have ingested it in a different manner to make It more enjoyable.

However, as we are all past that now what we are really waiting for is DESSERT!! We love Dessert!!

Cheers

[Wanderv]

For all these strange guys who scream "Why they write the letter for so long??!!! It's so easy, just type a text!". The problem is not writing, typing, formatting or whatever. Problem which may easily takes not weeks but months is set in stone plans. IT industry is quite badly predictable. Anytime some very evil bug could appear and throw back all the work for some days or weeks. So producer should see some reliable progress to make adequate prognosis this feature will be ready for U20 and that content for U21 or not. That is why many companies just say "When it's done!". But you at the same demand precise plan and "do it right now!". Obviously these are mutually exclusive. If you want professional plan give professionals time to do their work professionally.

Please don't be like greedy fool kids.