High Elves as a Playable Race

[Daenith]

...You know what would be a total lack of ethical business practice? To completely stop development on all new content and systems until every bug in the existing game is fixed. That's not only not how commercial software development works, but it's also impossible, especially in a system this size.

I haven't and don't advocate a complete stoppage of new content development, but at some point I would like to see someone from SSG step up and say that fixing the massive lag issues, crashes and major system bugs is a priority and is being worked on just as vigorously as the addition of new content. We're 10 years into this journey and the game is less stable now and more buggy than it was on day one of launch; and it's not just because it's "bigger". It's because there is too much that has been swept under the rug, set on the back burner or simply ignored/forgotten and not promptly identified, addressed and fixed.

...But every other post in this (and every other thread on these forums) seems to be demanding it. "How dare you add [content I'm not interested in anyway] when [content I'm interested in] is slightly bugged!1!!". I've gotten really sick of that entitled attitude as its crescendoed over the last few years, so I can't imagine how the people it actually insults feel.

It has nothing to do with an entitled attitude. I think what you are seeing is a growing customer base that is really beginning to get fed up when the answer to every game problem is either, buy more ram or get a new system. My wakeup call (and I would guess a large block of customers along with me) came with the introduction of Minas Tirith. Up until that point, excessive lag in certain areas and warsteed rubber banding (still not fixed) were probably my two biggest gripes...that and the see-saw class nerfing and un-nerfing. Now, if I go to X area, or zone in and out of X area X amount of times, I CTD. Not just some of the time, but all of the time. Sure, I could probably reduce my graphic settings and that might help, some...maybe. But the point of the matter is this: my system that ran the game almost flawlessly on max video settings, well now it doesn't; and the ROOT CAUSE of the problem is NOT my system, it's buried somewhere within the game, and the responsibility for fixing it lies squarely on the shoulders of SSG. I cannot identify the problem, much less fix it; all I can do as a customer is to supply the Devs with end user feedback...and no matter if it's Turbine, WB, SSG or whoever, if they choose to ignore that feedback and in turn focus on new content, well then they aren't the ones who should feel insulted.

Look, everyone, myself included, likes to see new content added; and I think that applies doubly for those of us who have played this game regularly for so many years now. But, there comes a point where all the new content in the world won't finance a game where it's necessary, or at the very least, you begin to feel like it's necessary to upgrade/replace a PC every time said new content is added. But once again, that is just my opinion...and as we full know, everyone has one.

[bucko39]

I haven't and don't advocate a complete stoppage of new content development, but at some point I would like to see someone from SSG step up and say that fixing the massive lag issues, crashes and major system bugs is a priority and is being worked on just as vigorously as the addition of new content.

But they have said as much...in a recent interview, Cordovan said they have one technician working on all the performance issues/bugs, etc. One technician. That should tell you everything you need to know about their priorities.

[Daenith]

But they have said as much...in a recent interview, Cordovan said they have one technician working on all the performance issues/bugs, etc. One technician. That should tell you everything you need to know about their priorities.

Got me to smile anyways. So, I wonder what the other technician is tasked with?

Seriously though, I guess I'm just hoping to see some improvement on the performance side. I remember the one thing that I was so impressed with when this game launched, was how smooth it ran and how polished it felt. I was actually proud to have had a small part in that from the BETA testing I'd done and I wholeheartedly recommended the game to my friends and co-workers. That isn't to say there weren't a few hiccups, but they were sniffed out and put to bed pretty quickly and efficiently. And yes, I do realize that there isn't any comparison to the staff Turbine initially had and what SSG currently has. I simply find it difficult getting hyped about anything "new" when I am lucky if I can ride from MT to the South Gate without crashing.

I'm not from Missouri, and to those who are, I apologize in advance for the pun; but they are gonna have to "show me" some results before I open my wallet and spend money on any new content.

[Fealhach]

But they have said as much...in a recent interview, Cordovan said they have one technician working on all the performance issues/bugs, etc. One technician. That should tell you everything you need to know about their priorities.

Maybe it's a High Elf Tech, thus justifying their introduction....

Cheers

[bucko39]

Got me to smile anyways. So, I wonder what the other technician is tasked with?

Seriously though, I guess I'm just hoping to see some improvement on the performance side.

To be honest, this would bring me back to the game full time. A continuous conversation between me and a friend (who originally got me to play LotRO years ago) is how his FPS dropped to 4 during the 12-man Throne raid and I can jump into a 24 man raid in FFXIV and not need to touch my settings at all. Side note: his computer is more of a beast than mine

/shrug.

[Daenith]

To be honest, this would bring me back to the game full time. A continuous conversation between me and a friend (who originally got me to play LotRO years ago) is how his FPS dropped to 4 during the 12-man Throne raid and I can jump into a 24 man raid in FFXIV and not need to touch my settings at all. Side note: his computer is more of a beast than mine

/shrug.

The largest raid I ever led in DAoC was 134 players; and that was almost 15 years ago (maybe longer as I was running a VooDoo graphics card, NVidia didn't even exist) on a rig not even half of what I now have. And yes, there were many Leroy Jenkins moments.

I logged into LoTRO a few minutes ago, headed out of MT toward the south gate, rounded the big turn in the road....CTD. Logged back in and was plastered against the wall by the river...no idea how I survived. It's just sad.

[djheydt]

Glorfindel was roflstomping Balrogs in the First Age;

Until one of the Balrogs stomped back; don't forget that. It's what the SCA calls a double-kill.

he could probably take Gothmog with one hand tied behind his back, and he'd just laugh at Rakothas.

The One has chosen another fate for Gothmog, and we have seen its beginning. Stay tuned.

[djheydt]

Yes, that be the quote.

No objections from me for additional playable peoples, just trying to understand the thought process behind it and how it will differ from pre existing Elves.

As for pledging ones sword, there is only one person I'll be pledging my sword to and that is King Elessar.

Oh, me too. All my characters, including Elves (except some storage mules who live in the housing instance and have never seen him) have sworn to him the moment they saw him in the Prancing Pony. But read on.

There is no chance any of my Elves (particularly the High ones) will be pledging their swords to Dwarves, or my Hobbits pledging their swords to Men, though they will happily pledge their swords to their own people.

Consider the end of the Gondorian oath: "... until my lord release me, or death take me, or the world end."

I could see a High-elf making that oath to King Elessar, with the knowledge on both sides that one of those clauses would cover the Elf's final departure over Sea.

[djheydt]

Well, I have finally slogged through all eight pages of this thread, making as few comments as possible.

Now I'll say this: All SSG have said is that they're thinking about introducing High-elves as a race.

I will wait to see (a) whether they actually do it and (b) if so, what they do.

[Daenith]

Well, I have finally slogged through all eight pages of this thread, making as few comments as possible.

Now I'll say this: All SSG have said is that they're thinking about introducing High-elves as a race.

I will wait to see (a) whether they actually do it and (b) if so, what they do.

I dunno. I'm seriously thinking about heading to the Grey Havens...to set about stowing away on one of those westward bound Elven ships.

[Scirocco]

I dunno. I'm seriously thinking about heading to the Grey Havens...to set about stowing away on one of those westward bound Elven ships.

Hmmm...how about a player controllable elven ship? We can charge the high elves a toll to ferry them over....

[Fealhach]

Now I'll say this: All SSG have said is that they're thinking about introducing High-elves as a race.

I will wait to see (a) whether they actually do it and (b) if so, what they do.

They must have been 'thinking' about it for some time before they had got to a stage where they had thought about it enough to be able to reveal that they are thinking about it. If there was no thought involved, they certainly wouldn't reveal they were thinking about it at all.

Let's see if they have thought about it enough that it gets included in the next Producer's letter.

Looking forward to seeing what they actually come up with.

Cheers

[Daenith]

They must have been 'thinking' about it for some time before they had got to a stage where they had thought about it enough to be able to reveal that they are thinking about it. If there was no thought involved, they certainly wouldn't reveal they were thinking about it at all.

Let's see if they have thought about it enough that it gets included in the next Producer's letter.

Looking forward to seeing what they actually come up with.

Cheers

M'thinks ye been a thinkin' way too much bout the thinkin' that went inta them thar thoughts your a thinkin'.

[Happychappy]

Turin Hurambar of the House of Tador was a great dwarf overlord of the Mines of Moria in the First Age. He fought valiantly in the Arnaeth Nirnoediad and later married Galadriel, but he died by accidentally falling on his axe soon after and Galadriel re-married. This is the short account of his life, I hope I didn't mess up the dates.

Yes but not Hurin Turambar lol. Hurin was his father and Turambar is what Turin named himself. And lol he wasn't a dwarf from Moria.... he was from Erebor duh

[Cordovan]

But they have said as much...in a recent interview, Cordovan said they have one technician working on all the performance issues/bugs, etc. One technician. That should tell you everything you need to know about their priorities.

This is incorrect. We have one person who has been dedicated 100% toward lag and game performance improvements, but that is in addition to other work being done by other people.

[bucko39]

We have one person who has been dedicated 100% toward lag and game performance improvements, but that is in addition to other work being done by other people.

One is clearly not enough. When was the last time you (or the Devs) played through the Throne raid? I'd be curious to know how that experience went.

[Emraneth]

Maybe one of the devs could offer a little more information as what they have in mind? Are we talking playable calaquendi or did they just mean Sindar Elves (which would allay most of the fears of lore breaking and one overpowered race)? Is it just a race or a race/class combo like beornings?

[djheydt]

Yes but not Hurin Turambar lol. Hurin was his father and Turambar is what Turin named himself. And lol he wasn't a dwarf from Moria.... he was from Erebor duh

Yeah. Neeb was taking the other poster's typo and running with it.

[Jewl_of_the_lake]

Maybe one of the devs could offer a little more information as what they have in mind? Are we talking playable calaquendi or did they just mean Sindar Elves (which would allay most of the fears of lore breaking and one overpowered race)? Is it just a race or a race/class combo like beornings?

forgivethispostmyspacebarstopp edworkingonthisforum??
Thingol_was_the_only_High_Elf_ of_the_Sindar_so_the_new_race_ could_not_be_Sindar
and_by_the_way_HELP_if_anyone_ knows_how_to_get_my_spacebar_w orking_again_It is ......nvm

[Gilean-EU]

Hmm. How should I put this. Although the idea of adding new playable race might be something that SSG thinks it kind of "must be" with expansion, I think that is not necessarily needed. There are many other things than new playable race what could bring old players back and also lure new ones in, and here's two main things in my opinion:

* Smooth gameplay (no stuttering/lag/etc)
* Meaningful end-game for all playstyles (solo/group/raid/PvMP)

As for smooth gameplay, I think the only thing that really would help is to re-do the whole engine and/or create 64-bit game client. That would fix stuttering that happens usually when client starts to climb 3GB memory usage, following soon with crash. But does SSG want to invest on such a huge task? That is a big question. Hopefully yes, but I don't keep my breath waiting.

Meaningful end-game means that devs stop this ever-going trend of releasing updates with something to do EITHER for soloers OR for groupers/raiders. By all means, take longer between releasing updates, but first create content for all playstyles and THEN release the update.

That being said, if they really want to give us another playable race (no matter if it's traditional playable race or race/class combo like beorning), the first thing is to create some tech to make this game more alt-friendly than it has become. For example, lessening the grind by reducing number of mobs needed for slayer deeds/emp scrolls/phials/whatever based on how many (for example) lvl 100 characters player has. As for now, you can just multiply all grind with number of alts you have, which means many players have already decided to stop playing alts or at least skipping essence grind etc with all other characters but one or two. Traditionally I have started new class whenever we have got one (which means I have all 10 classes at level cap), but I am not sure if I would start AGAIN with high-elf because I know all that grind that is waiting for me...

What if this high-elf is not just another race (where you can choose the class yourself), but more like a beorning (race/class combo)? That could be interesting but since even beorning is not yet done (mounted combat is so slow that it's not even funny, and there STILL is no Dol Amroth medium Nadhin set with might...), I wonder how many months or years even would it take to high-elf being actually on-par with other classes?

But I guess we will have to wait for producer's letter for more info about what we can expect in future...

[Nzin]

If focusing their efforts on high elves means they won't be able to add any fantastically awesome new features (like mounted combat or epic battles), then I'm all for it.

[kickman77]

One is clearly not enough. When was the last time you (or the Devs) played through the Throne raid? I'd be curious to know how that experience went.

wait

they actually have played it once?

[Gwinthilnel]

wait

they actually have played it once?

Thanks for this, it made me giggle. I slogged through this whole thread as well, and some very interesting points have been made. I guess the best way to go about this is to wait and see what happens; Cordovan didn't address this topic at all when he responded, instead zeroing in on the comment about the # of people working on lag and performance issues. I'd like to see him chime in on this.

[Tatharil]

forgivethispostmyspacebarstopp edworkingonthisforum??
Thingol_was_the_only_High_Elf_ of_the_Sindar_so_the_new_race_ could_not_be_Sindar
and_by_the_way_HELP_if_anyone_ knows_how_to_get_my_spacebar_w orking_again_It is ......nvm

To be accurate Elwe wasn't Sindar, he was the lord of the Teleri (with his brother Olwe). ;P

[djheydt]

Reading through an entirely different forum (computer hardware completely unable to run LotRO, so not otherwise relevant), I came across a post from a user asking "Are there any rumours out about a new [version of existing hardware]?"

To which the next poster replied,

Depending on how you define "rumour", either there are no rumours, just vague wishes, wistful longing, or idle speculation. On the other hand, there are constant threads describing what individuals think the path forward for each and every model of [hardware] there is. None of it gets any feedback from the [devs]. Their plans are what they are. At this point, there are no known plans for changes....but then, there never are.

I think that's about where we stand at present with regard to High Elves. The devs are still thinking. They may be thinking seriously, since they went to far as to mention the idea. But it will do us no good to try to anticipate what they're going to think, an indeterminate time from now. Or, as the late Robert Heinlein said in a somewhat different context, let's not make too much stew out of one oyster.

I will be very much interested in what the High Elves will be like, assuming they're put into the game. I have one low-level character with a neat Elvish name, whom I would be happy to rework ... if I turn out to like the race/class/skills. I can still remember the time I tried to make a Rune-keeper. I DIED, Jim.