Bullroarer Update 20 - Preview and Release Notes

[Nonde]

It wasn't necessary to FARM it, that is the point! What used to be a simple idea, a grind offset item available at a price everyone can use it, is becoming instead a grind itself. . . . If you make everything a grind to simply play, people won't play your game.

Exceedingly well summed and said! Each crafting guild is 280k rep which translates to 140 rep accelerators which at 6 medallions, 60 marks is 840 medallions, 8400 marks per guild. For the many who create alts so as to guild all 7 crafts this is 5880 medallions and 58,000 marks prior to achieving marks easy mode at level 100, and leaving aside Lothlorien, Endewaith with 2 reps, etc that have already been mentioned. Escalating the grind to the currently proposed 25 medallions, 250 marks ups this to 3500 mediallions and 35,000 marks per guild or 24,500 medallions and 245,000 marks just to guild all crafts.

It seems to me to be counterproductive to raise the cost of rep accelerators per se, as well as counter to the seeming efforts to expedite progression for new players. I am reminded of Hybold Mk 2 where the tokens were made abundant and characters were still in the 90s before being able to complete the rebuild due to reputation lagging behind. Is it more likely that players will hang in areas to gain rep, or just skip on to the next region and yet the next region when they hit the rep grinds that were relevant when they were level cap and we had many months to do them?? What are you seeking to achieve with the price increase?

[Macroscian]

This is not for beginners
only at cap
You are dim
Seals were converted Medallions

They were indeed converted to meds but the gear required 900 medallions per piece for just the purple dyeables to use in wardrobe. They were used.

'nub' is a derogatory term and you look down on these people

I'm a happy nub every day, regardless of how you feel about the word. Keep telling me I'm a noob for asking to reverse a pointless decision and I might start feel bad about the word too! I'm sorry you had this experience.

You want to punish people who want to farm marks and meds
You discriminate farmers

I have to ask: these 'farmers', apparently including you and your buddies, they farm marks and medallions, right?
Now I ask for removing the increased cost of something you apparently farm for.
You state below that I should get a life and not play the game so much.
If you draw that reasoning to its conclusion, you can get more of that same item you farm for if the price is not increased. You need to spend less time 'farming' the marks and meds. That is the effect of keeping the price as is instead of randomly increasing it 600% or 400%.

Just play the game as is and do 100 quests instead of 50

This is the core of the issue: there are too few quests to finish most rep factions without a lot of repeated dailies. There is not enough content to max them. I throw my time at these areas and finish all quest deeds and get all the stuff but the content is not enough to max the rep. It has been all about stalling/treading water. If you had played these areas recently, you would draw the same conclusion: apparently, the rep acc are needed. At 60 65 75 85 95 100 and 105.

To truncate you then say this increase will not affect the 'farmers' and that you want to spend less time 'farming' marks and meds. Happy we agree.
Some odd lines about my way to play the game being irrelevant.
Comparing Ened to MT is also making my point for me - less time is what we're after and we're soon two areas out of MT and guess how that feels to an alt or someone new reaching the place now? All the bits DA to MT was about rep factions and to some extent only about the rep factions.
You also feel this is too much without rep acc and that's good to hear, we experience the same.

However, you don't understand - this is about level 60 70 80 where you gain near zero medallions for whatever you do. I'm sorry you suffer so in MT and I'm sorry you need to spend all that time gathering medallions to get rep acc. This is why those should not have an increase in price 4x or 6x. Less time spent treading water.

The price of rep acc is outrageous!

Well...yes? My point. Thanks for agreeing

There is life out there, you should try it!

I know it's just flame-bait. Tell me to get a life? Ease up on the abuse, there's a good fella.

*

In any case: glad you also feel that six medallions per pop is good enough.
I'm sorry to see you are irritated by the time taken - it just increased by four, potentially. At least it wasn't six times the time, dodged a bullet there, eh?

In one way it is correct: this doesn't affect you if you already have 40-50 000 medallions. I guess that's where you are at now? An increase in price to 25 medallions per pop will have no effect and keeping the price at 6 medallions will have no effect? You will not be affected?

[peachykins]

Ähem, is this an election? Is this kind of a democracy? Is it your Opinion, if casual / role players, who usually have a stronger dedication to post in Forum, complain more about or clap more to a certain announcement, it´s better for the whole game community? SSG should listen to players feedback, yes. But not to opinions, but to the arguments. As a Game publisher/developer one should try to find out whats best for the majority of the users, not for a minority that care to raise their voices...

and noone is stopping all these other people from coming to this forum to let SSG know if they like or dislike something...

[Arnenna]

They were indeed converted to meds but the gear required 900 medallions per piece for just the purple dyeables to use in wardrobe. They were used.

I'm a happy nub every day, regardless of how you feel about the word. Keep telling me I'm a noob for asking to reverse a pointless decision and I might start feel bad about the word too! I'm sorry you had this experience.

I have to ask: these 'farmers', apparently including you and your buddies, they farm marks and medallions, right?
Now I ask for removing the increased cost of something you apparently farm for.
You state below that I should get a life and not play the game so much.
If you draw that reasoning to its conclusion, you can get more of that same item you farm for if the price is not increased. You need to spend less time 'farming' the marks and meds. That is the effect of keeping the price as is instead of randomly increasing it 600% or 400%.

This is the core of the issue: there are too few quests to finish most rep factions without a lot of repeated dailies. There is not enough content to max them. I throw my time at these areas and finish all quest deeds and get all the stuff but the content is not enough to max the rep. It has been all about stalling/treading water. If you had played these areas recently, you would draw the same conclusion: apparently, the rep acc are needed. At 60 65 75 85 95 100 and 105.

To truncate you then say this increase will not affect the 'farmers' and that you want to spend less time 'farming' marks and meds. Happy we agree.
Some odd lines about my way to play the game being irrelevant.
Comparing Ened to MT is also making my point for me - less time is what we're after and we're soon two areas out of MT and guess how that feels to an alt or someone new reaching the place now? All the bits DA to MT was about rep factions and to some extent only about the rep factions.
You also feel this is too much without rep acc and that's good to hear, we experience the same.

However, you don't understand - this is about level 60 70 80 where you gain near zero medallions for whatever you do. I'm sorry you suffer so in MT and I'm sorry you need to spend all that time gathering medallions to get rep acc. This is why those should not have an increase in price 4x or 6x. Less time spent treading water.


Well...yes? My point. Thanks for agreeing

I know it's just flame-bait. Tell me to get a life? Ease up on the abuse, there's a good fella.

*

In any case: glad you also feel that six medallions per pop is good enough.
I'm sorry to see you are irritated by the time taken - it just increased by four, potentially. At least it wasn't six times the time, dodged a bullet there, eh?

In one way it is correct: this doesn't affect you if you already have 40-50 000 medallions. I guess that's where you are at now? An increase in price to 25 medallions per pop will have no effect and keeping the price at 6 medallions will have no effect? You will not be affected?

You will never sway these people. They have reason to defend the increase - otherwise, they wouldn't be defending it because noone defends price increases just for the sake of it. Fact. Nobody defends a 10p increase on a litre of fuel, unless they have a reason to - eg, the petrol station owner (people selling the wares) and the tax man (people making an indirect cut on the sales). Nobody walks into that fuel station and says "Hey, you need to increase the price of the fuel because ummm, it's too cheap. Nothing else to add, I just think it's too cheap and I really want to pay more for it, for no reason".

I'm surprised at SSG for going along with it though - they too, know exactly what this is. What a wonderful anniversary gift to their players to mark 10 years. But this has been going on for a long while, through other items that were a lot less obvious. Gating raid or end zone pets or other types of fluff is one thing - whales will buy them off the people that can get them, but that's just fluff and doesn't affect the game play of any players. Those that want them, will fork out high gold for them, those that don't, won't bother. Nobody actually needs them for anything other than - fun. Then there was the selling of raid loot, which was a different kettle of fish altogether. Li scrolls, always been a regular trade item, but open to all (hence, quite low prices overall). Both solo and group availability, so never an issue where one group of people hold to ransom another group of people. I'd bet if SSG were to announce LI scrolls will now only be available in t2c content, some people in here would be calling for a 50 legacy growth on LI's. Crystals were a little contribution to the problem until they became more universal too. But demand for all of the above eventually runs dry, when people get what they need. Here enter rep tomes and it's constant stream of usability, where only people that group up at end level get the easy road and those that don't are well, at the mercy of those that do, or the store, if they wish to bypass some of the grind. Some defenders say, it's just grind, work through it, while at the same time panic at the thought of not being able to hoof it across Mordor because it will slow them down too much to have to go on foot. Some also said, work it, it's just grind, while they got busy buying stacks of tomes at today's price and readily admit they plan on taking all their alts through the new content rep using boosts. Go figure.

Maybe it's time to type up an online guide on how to generate large amounts of gold in game and never have to buy anything again, so everyone can start doing it. Or maybe a guide on how to hop servers with mass amounts of certain items and crash the Auction Houses across the board, Bit extreme maybe Maybe people just need to start saying no to the gold farmers instead - put an end to this abomination. But while there are cash whales and players that will defend any kind of game change that helps them to milk them - its only SSG that have the power to curb it, because whales will always be whales, and whale milkers will always be whale milkers.

[Laerien]

Exceedingly well summed and said! Each crafting guild is 280k rep which translates to 140 rep accelerators which at 6 medallions, 60 marks is 840 medallions, 8400 marks per guild. For the many who create alts so as to guild all 7 crafts this is 5880 medallions and 58,000 marks prior to achieving marks easy mode at level 100, and leaving aside Lothlorien, Endewaith with 2 reps, etc that have already been mentioned. Escalating the grind to the currently proposed 25 medallions, 250 marks ups this to 3500 mediallions and 35,000 marks per guild or 24,500 medallions and 245,000 marks just to guild all crafts.

It seems to me to be counterproductive to raise the cost of rep accelerators per se, as well as counter to the seeming efforts to expedite progression for new players. I am reminded of Hybold Mk 2 where the tokens were made abundant and characters were still in the 90s before being able to complete the rebuild due to reputation lagging behind. Is it more likely that players will hang in areas to gain rep, or just skip on to the next region and yet the next region when they hit the rep grinds that were relevant when they were level cap and we had many months to do them?? What are you seeking to achieve with the price increase?

It is exactly in the opposite direction we were supposed to be heading with Turbine, quality of life updates, reducing grind, etc.

The prices of Rep acceleration tomes have changed at least 4 times, 25 Medallions and 250 Marks for 1000 reputation is 4 times the current price and the highest. The cost was lowered along with other skirmish camp prices by player request in update 14.1. This was almost 3 years ago.

It was a sort of trade off, we give you "cheap" acceleration tomes that will help you to get reputation faster but, at the same time, we encourage you to run skirmishes and other instances to get the medallions needed; don't forget that guild rep items were also nerfed.

-------

I'm still interested in hearing about these "acquisition rates", because they haven't risen.

-------

Why they are doing this? It would be also interesting a word about it. I'm positive that this was not being abused, in fact, the reputation with some factions is a pain EVEN with acceleration tomes.

-------

What would be the impact?, the prices in AH skyrocketed. From 60-70 gold the stack, to 150-200 (prices change within hours in large economies, in small economies they tend to be more stable and rise more than the average e.g Gladden and Crickhollow). Most people probably will spend until the last medallion in tomes before this update; those who have not the info will have to face the catastrophe.

There are several factors to be considered but in general: The people who usually farm marks/medallions to sell tomes will rise the prices initially; the price will go down with the supply and low demand (after this update we will be literally swimming in tomes).

When the supply and demand become stable, the ones with better ratios (e.g. Thorog farmers) will bury the others (e.g. epic battles, FI farmers). New players and those with low mark/medallions income won't spend 25 medallions in 1000 rep (in my case, I was reluctant to spend even 6 medallions in a tome). In the end, rep tomes will be a luxurious item; only for some too rich or too <censored> to burn gold or time in them.

So this is it. Welcome to Mordor!

Note: Those who think that are not being affected, yes now you are not being affected but, sooner or later, you will.

[Joedangod]

There is no reason for you and maybe some others may share your concerns. I know it could be so frustrating running around with full BIS gear and 4 pairs of maxed FA LI's and then preach about how easy the game is. But in reality, many people don't have full BIS gear nor even ONE pair of maxed LI's..

So you're perfectly happy if players like me become monstrously overpowered because some people aren't making full use of their classes and thus struggle a bit? Seems odd that you want the difference between raiders and landscape only players to increase at such a rate. Maybe you just hate landscape players.

I don't preach about how easy the game is in regard to my level capped alts in the latest regions, I laugh at how easy things have become far before. My hunter is level 77, has never died and is using a non-LI bow I got at level 60. It still one shots enemies because base damage was buffed far too much. When leveling an alt I don't even bat an eye at small fellowship/fellowship markers on quests, only the fellowship ones feel like the quest level from years ago. All comments I make in regards to BiS geared characters being too powerful are meant purely in a T2C raid setting, this is my area of play. You and others keep insisting that the T2C needs to be made easier by these updates bringing copious amount of upgrades, you don't seem to care that you are trying to alienate the raiders by taking away all the content they actually have to do.

If people want to give Throne a shot...let them do T1. T2C is not for the casual player, it's not sunshine and rainbows, it's meant to be a grim battle against the current greatest threat.

Edit: anyone else amused by the irony of a guy who insists that the majority of players don't have maxed LI's going on to insist that these people need the higher tiers?

[Joedangod]

As far as rep accelerators go; yes, they were too cheap. Having rep accelerators active was basically a default thing that everyone did without batting an eye, that's not really how it should work. SSG/Turbine noticed that people were playing this way and started to simply bump the amount of reputation we required so that a player with rep accelerators in the new content was roughly on par with the rate people got rep for the old content.

Rep accelerator prices need an increase (perhaps even greater than the current increase) but SSG also needs to tweak how reputation in later zones is gained and streamline the older zones with the more egregious rep grinds that were purely meant as busy work when those zones were cap content. Running without rep accelerators should be the default with a hefty but reasonable cost:time saved ratio for the players who splash out on the accelerators.

[peachykins]

So you're perfectly happy if players like me become monstrously overpowered because some people aren't making full use of their classes and thus struggle a bit? Seems odd that you want the difference between raiders and landscape only players to increase at such a rate. Maybe you just hate landscape players.

Unless I am mistaken you don't have to keep adding to your legendary. So noone is forcing you to become monstrously overpowered. That is your choice.

[Joedangod]

Unless I am mistaken you don't have to keep adding to your legendary. So noone is forcing you to become monstrously overpowered. That is your choice.

So I should specifically avoid becoming overpowered?

Good thing I have a Beorning I guess.

Edit: Hilariously I don't actually have a choice because 5 levels would be automatically applied.

[Elgrind]

There is no reason for you and maybe some others may share your concerns. I know it could be so frustrating running around with full BIS gear and 4 pairs of maxed FA LI's and then preach about how easy the game is. But in reality, many people don't have full BIS gear nor even ONE pair of maxed LI's.

It seems like there are plenty people who work hard on nearly one year old raid.
They want to keep their hardworking armours and stuffs exclusive so much, that they are too afraid of few casual will do T2C.
With 10 LI tier, those casual will be OP so much that they will survive T2C :-)
Also those golden item push stats so high, find thread on beta forum, so those casual will be OP too.

The results are:
"Dont bring them to U20 please. NO LI tier and NO new armours please "
"Lets game stuck, where it is, noone will complain "

Game moves on and people cries about that.
Why people comparing old vs new stats.
Like ROI stats vs RoR or HD or Gondor/MT etc. ???

We got new update and got nothing, only grind for armours for nothing/no new content .
Best thing in this updates was LI tiers rise, which can be useful for any future expansion.
We got it with granted 5tier= FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And 5more if you want maxed out!!!!

If people worry about OP or class balance, stop legacy bonus where it is at U19 and add another/secondary/new bonus in them !!!
Problem solved very easily.

To this people SSG/previous Turbine workers are still listening.
Nothing changed i guess, SSG or Turbine, same kind !!!

[wispsong]

As far as rep accelerators go; yes, they were too cheap. Having rep accelerators active was basically a default thing that everyone did without batting an eye, that's not really how it should work. SSG/Turbine noticed that people were playing this way and started to simply bump the amount of reputation we required so that a player with rep accelerators in the new content was roughly on par with the rate people got rep for the old content.

Rep accelerator prices need an increase (perhaps even greater than the current increase) but SSG also needs to tweak how reputation in later zones is gained and streamline the older zones with the more egregious rep grinds that were purely meant as busy work when those zones were cap content. Running without rep accelerators should be the default with a hefty but reasonable cost:time saved ratio for the players who splash out on the accelerators.

Except for my first reputation with Riders of Rohan I never used rep accelerators. Now with them adding celebrated again to Host of the West and not having over a year to max it, if the repeatables are not that great, I might have to use them again. I did around 400 of the existing dailies already so I probably wont be falling back to them. So the question at:
How many options and different quests do I have to finish the rep?
How interesting are the rewards?
How much rep do I get per quest?

[Emraneth]

As someone who complained repeatedly about the LI tier increase in build one, I want to add that my primary objection is to more locked tiers, not more tiers in general. I have already stopped playing most of my alts because of the hundreds of unlocks needed per character. If more are added I will likely be down to a single character rather than grind out more. If they leave it where it is I might eventually level another character's LI. Since the locked tiers primarily exist to encourage people to spend money in the store, SSG has to consider the diminishing returns that if I play fewer characters each time they add more locked tiers they could be making less money from me than if there were fewer locks in the first place.

[ValeriaOfRivendell]

Spent most of the weekend on Bullroarer Update 20 server. Absolutely love the new content. Haven't gotten to finish everything yet, finally found a fellowship for Lang Dhuven 50 mins before server shutdown today so wasn't able to finish quests in there. Look forward to going back. Also spent time looking for the boss in the 2 towers but never came across the one for the quests. Don't know if they are just randomly there or i just didn't find them. Timer ran out on both. Finally wasn't able to find the item Milgamil (sp) asked for. Maybe not there yet? Also, didn't get to resource dungeon stuff and didn't play around with new recipes, etc. Anyway after reading all the complaints about this and that just wanted to say I love it and look forward to next weekend on Beta and to the actual release. Keep up the good work.

Val, Council of Shadow and Fire, Gladden

[kickman77]

Ähem, is this an election? Is this kind of a democracy? Is it your Opinion, if casual / role players, who usually have a stronger dedication to post in Forum, complain more about or clap more to a certain announcement, it´s better for the whole game community? SSG should listen to players feedback, yes. But not to opinions, but to the arguments. As a Game publisher/developer one should try to find out whats best for the majority of the users, not for a minority that care to raise their voices...

.
Seriously... you do know how a beta works right? The whole purpose of the beta is to get people to leave feedback. the chosen method for that by Turbine and now SSG is a forum. People choosing not to come on the forum and leave 1 sentence of feedback saying

"Oh I like the new area but think the steed is ugly"
or
"the new area is to small please make it bigger"
or
"I like the increase in LIs it makes me so OP"

than they are choosing not to do that knowing that there are people here on the forums leaving feedback and having discussion. They are the ones making the choice to not take 5 whole minutes of their day and leave a quick statement.

[Macroscian]

And this is how quoting is done with added sense according to your standards - and I only just used the 'Delete' button.

Get a room with that dumb troll b!tch

900 medallions purple dyeables in wardrobe. They were a happy nub every day
I start feel bad about you and your buddies

Now I should get a life and not play the game so much.

If you draw more of that same item you increased.

You need to spend less time keeping the random
600% or 400%.

This is the core of the issue: 6065758595100105.

this increase will not affect the odd lines

my way to play the game irrelevant.


You also feel good to hear, we the same.

I'm sorry you suffer in MT.
Thanks for agreeing

I know to get up on the abuse.

*

I'm sorry to see you increased by four, potentially. At least it wasn't six times a bullet, eh?

this doesn't affect you if you have lions.

where you are at now?
An increase in price to 25 lions per will have no rice at 6 lions

will have no effect?
You will not be

That level of abuse is not acceptable. The swearing and the taunting.
On topic: does this mean you agree? No more argument?
Changing the price on small rep accelerators from 6 medallions each to 25 per pop is pointless?
To those who farm marks and meds it means less farming time?
Raising the barter price only has a detrimental effect on those who do not farm or those who do run a lot of instances while below cap?

[Arnenna]

Except for my first reputation with Riders of Rohan I never used rep accelerators. Now with them adding celebrated again to Host of the West and not having over a year to max it, if the repeatables are not that great, I might have to use them again. I did around 400 of the existing dailies already so I probably wont be falling back to them. So the question at:
How many options and different quests do I have to finish the rep?
How interesting are the rewards?
How much rep do I get per quest?

It's not just the three new tiers of Host of the West. It's that, and another three factions on top of it. There are a few daily landscape quests, and the daily instances. It's a very rep-heavy update, and makes MT rep grind look like walk in the park. With rep tomes, it will take a while. Without them, it will take a very long time - so buy what you can now.

[Vilan]

•Lore-master - Lore-master Resist Legacies (non-imbued) have been re-balanced to be more effective at higher tiers.

Has anyone at SSG looked into whether the imbued version of these legacies are working properly? I've seen several reports on the LM forum of people saying that at least some of them are not doing anything.

[Cordovan]

This thread is not about people's opinions about other people's opinions, but is rather about getting direct feedback on Update 20 from Bullroarer. Further back and forth arguing over someone else's beliefs will not be tolerated.

[wispsong]

It's not just the three new tiers of Host of the West. It's that, and another three factions on top of it. There are a few daily landscape quests, and the daily instances. It's a very rep-heavy update, and makes MT rep grind look like walk in the park. With rep tomes, it will take a while. Without them, it will take a very long time - so buy what you can now.

Probably take your advice and get them. At least I have some stocked away in case it gets to repetitive. Thankfully I have enough meds/marks for emergencies.

[Laerien]

So you're perfectly happy if players like me become monstrously overpowered because some people aren't making full use of their classes and thus struggle a bit? Seems odd that you want the difference between raiders and landscape only players to increase at such a rate. Maybe you just hate landscape players.

No, I'm not "happy" and I've never said or implied such things. If I have to feel something, that would be confusion because the line of reasoning some of you are following.

First you and others want a reason (remember the thread about jewellry "becoming obsolete"?) to run the raid, which is certainly unique rewards; those rewards will make your characters more powerful than before; then you complain that your characters are too powerful and the difficulty should be rised. It's a vicious cycle.

All comments I make in regards to BiS geared characters being too powerful are meant purely in a T2C raid setting, this is my area of play.

---------

Regarding the gap between a Full BIS and landscape only players (there are more people in between), I've said in other post that I expect that landscape only players should have access to gold gear too.

You and others keep insisting that the T2C needs to be made easier by these updates bringing copious amount of upgrades, you don't seem to care that you are trying to alienate the raiders by taking away all the content they actually have to do.

No, I've never said that. However, I understand that T2C will inevitably be a little easier (regarding stats, not "strategy") with upgraded gear. The new content will make use of those stats; there is supposed to be a new instance cluster in the future. I suppose raiders are looking forward for the next raid and all that.

If people want to give Throne a shot...let them do T1. T2C is not for the casual player, it's not sunshine and rainbows, it's meant to be a grim battle against the current greatest threat.

I don't see any problem with "casual" (derogatory term commonly used by some forum users) players trying T2C.

Edit: anyone else amused by the irony of a guy who insists that the majority of players don't have maxed LI's going on to insist that these people need the higher tiers?

You keep putting words in my mouth Aemon Targaryen , I've never said they "need". I'm not arrogant enough to say others what they "need" or what instances they can or can't do.

If new legacy tiers are introduced, players will have the choice to max them or not. If they feel the "need", is up to them. Now, IF they max them (with all that time or money that it means), the less I expect from them is a complaint about their LI's becoming too powerful.

It seems like there are plenty people who work hard on nearly one year old raid.
They want to keep their hardworking armours and stuffs exclusive so much, that they are too afraid of few casual will do T2C.
With 10 LI tier, those casual will be OP so much that they will survive T2C :-)
Also those golden item push stats so high, find thread on beta forum, so those casual will be OP too.

The game continue growing and old content becomes easier somehow. It's inevitable.

Note: Since Cordovan's last post, from now and on, in order to keep this thread clean, I will only express my feedback about the update.

[Macdui]

This thread is not about people's opinions about other people's opinions, but is rather about getting direct feedback on Update 20 from Bullroarer. Further back and forth arguing over someone else's beliefs will not be tolerated.

To go back on topic, partially, could we have a Cord of the Rings where you take 2 freshly made 1st ages and max them out with 7 legacies to rank 59. One via mithril, the other via ingame drops; remembrance, starlits and empowerment scrolls. Have the devs see what we have to go through when LIs "grow" and you are a fresh faced level 100 toon. You can pre-source the drops I wouldn't have the nerve to make anyone face that grind.

Mac

[Macroscian]

To go back on topic, partially, could we have a Cord of the Rings where you take 2 freshly made 1st ages and max them out with 7 legacies to rank 59. One via mithril, the other via ingame drops; remembrance, starlits and empowerment scrolls. Have the devs see what we have to go through when LIs "grow" and you are a fresh faced level 100 toon. You can pre-source the drops I wouldn't have the nerve to make anyone face that grind.

Mac

Well, the new tiers didn't happen now.

To 59 per useful leg is indeed a lot. If more than one person happens to be constructing new LIs and asks to buy emps, price immediately jumps to 150g (and beyond) per 10. I mainly used mithril coins instead of star-lits but was shocked at the number of star-lits you could throw at an LI.
As an experiment to check just how boring the Thorog farm is in this version of the game, ran the raid at 105 about 25 times yesterday. One symbol looted (to 21-24 people), zero star-lits, zero rememberances (and one ixp rune + one t6 relic per run - one, with twentyone to twentyfour people in the instance!). It was indeed fabulously boring but most of all it really had zero loot incentive. Scaled game content but quite useless aside from the medallions gained. Solely used in order to get some medallions, not a great state of affairs.
This confirmed that raising the venor price on rep accelerators is pointless. It has no effect at cap and it has all effect at lower levels when there is almost no detectable medallions gain at all even when spending hours in instances.
Oh and the Thorog locks don't exist and the same goes for sh/wp and a lot of other instances, they just run endlessly and you get a message that you're locked but it never actually happens.

[Arnenna]

To go back on topic, partially, could we have a Cord of the Rings where you take 2 freshly made 1st ages and max them out with 7 legacies to rank 59. One via mithril, the other via ingame drops; remembrance, starlits and empowerment scrolls. Have the devs see what we have to go through when LIs "grow" and you are a fresh faced level 100 toon. You can pre-source the drops I wouldn't have the nerve to make anyone face that grind.

Mac

I have 8 alts already at cap, facing this clickathon, and the grind that goes before it, and another four approaching level 100. The Op-ness that comes with extra tiers is real, but had nothing to to do with my choice to support abandonment of new tiers for U20. It was all about the grind and trying to avoid RSI. Another 6 months between now and Mordor, may give me enough time to get these done, if I work full out on it, and don't concentrate so much on all the other grinds that need doing for those chars as well. It's all about balance I suppose. We are encouraged on the splash screens - to try a different characters, yet the more we try, the less we can manage the insane grinds that come with each one (virtues, trait point runs, essences, gear, LI's and now crazy rep grinds). The balance eventually tips to the point where you end up abandoning the characters because there is not enough time to work through everything.

[Arnenna]

Probably take your advice and get them. At least I have some stocked away in case it gets to repetitive. Thankfully I have enough meds/marks for emergencies.

If you're short, and can't keep up with the new prices, here is another suggestion for you (may not be popular). If you have more than one account, start multiboxing three mans and BBs and offset the increase that way. They can be soloed, just take the spares along for the skirm yields. I'm betting we will see a lot more of that now. I've never really seen the need or point in it for solo players as they don't usually require marks and meds in high quantity (being as they are solo players and don't group much, and their game has rightfully, before now, never revolved around marks and meds yields), but it seems to be a lot more relevant for them now with U20's rep driven content. Just avoid buying them off the AH is my biggest bit of advice. Do that, and it's feeding this system, which is already a monster and needs no more food pumped into it. I think I asked you before, but can't remember - what server are you on? I'll help you out.

Edit: I just re-read back my post, and it's a sad old day when you need to advise a solo player to multibox normal game functions simply so they can work around a system designed to put them at such disadvantage they need workarounds because the normal mode of their playstyle does not cover what they need.

[ShireDweller]

If you're short, and can't keep up with the new prices, here is another suggestion for you (may not be popular). If you have more than one account, start multiboxing three mans and BBs and offset the increase that way. They can be soloed, just take the spares along for the skirm yields. I'm betting we will see a lot more of that now. I've never really seen the need or point in it for solo players as they don't usually require marks and meds in high quantity (being as they are solo players and don't group much, and their game has rightfully, before now, never revolved around marks and meds yields), but it seems to be a lot more relevant for them now with U20's rep driven content. Just avoid buying them off the AH is my biggest bit of advice. Do that, and it's feeding this system, which is already a monster and needs no more food pumped into it. I think I asked you before, but can't remember - what server are you on? I'll help you out.

Edit: I just re-read back my post, and it's a sad old day when you need to advise a solo player to multibox normal game functions simply so they can work around a system designed to put them at such disadvantage they need workarounds because the normal mode of their playstyle does not cover what they need.

I was just about to post exactly that and you beat me to it.