PvMP fast balance passes

[Spilo]

You can't outrun warg with warden... Especially in water. Even average good warg would have killed him, big part because of gear but almost equally big because one skill produces such big part of damage.

And that brings it to another in need of nerf on warg. Run speed debuff. It has such short CD and long duration combined with extremely strong debuff combined with wargs passive really fast movement. Either put longer cooldown on the skill, shorten duration or lower amount of slow it produces.

Nah, it's fine. Warg's a melee only class, it needs an effective slow. Let's not turn the Warg crit mag nerf discussion into a Witch Hunt.

[Giliodor]

Nah, it's fine. Warg's a melee only class, it needs an effective slow. Let's not turn the Warg crit mag nerf discussion into a Witch Hunt.

I'm going to have to agree with this, wargs need a strong slow in order to be viable. Passive run speed is quite logical as well.

[siipperi]

Nah, it's fine. Warg's a melee only class, it needs an effective slow. Let's not turn the Warg crit mag nerf discussion into a Witch Hunt.

And it's lovely when warg decides to bolt fight simply by slowing you and running away. Nothing one can do on several classes and warg don't even need to use CDs to leave 1v1. I wouldn't have any problems if sprint is used to do this but when class can simply walk away it's wrong.

[Spilo]

And it's lovely when warg decides to bolt fight simply by slowing you and running away. Nothing one can do on several classes and warg don't even need to use CDs to leave 1v1. I wouldn't have any problems if sprint is used to do this but when class can simply walk away it's wrong.

That can be annoying, but most classes have some form of ranged slow to counter this.

[TronGilrain]

There were 2 patches since this thread was made. Can we get any update on work on pvp please? Any work was done ? Or when we can actually expect anything?

[GrandCru]

crit mag nerf discussion.

There's not such a discussion.

[Sezneg]

There were 2 patches since this thread was made. Can we get any update on work on pvp please? Any work was done ? Or when we can actually expect anything?

The development work on those patches was done MONTHS ago.

When SSG says they are going to take "a month or two" that is them budgeting the time to do the work. This will appear for early testers perhaps in a month and a half or so (they will want early testers to have time to give first pass feedback while still having dev time budgeted to address that feedback). We will get a Bullroarer test perhaps 2 months from now or a few weeks further out, and feedback will be solicited. More likely than not, any fixes based on our feedback will appear in a .1 or .2 update after the initial release.

That is how MMO development works.

[Cedrozzi]

The development work on those patches was done MONTHS ago.

When SSG says they are going to take "a month or two" that is them budgeting the time to do the work. This will appear for early testers perhaps in a month and a half or so (they will want early testers to have time to give first pass feedback while still having dev time budgeted to address that feedback). We will get a Bullroarer test perhaps 2 months from now or a few weeks further out, and feedback will be solicited. More likely than not, any fixes based on our feedback will appear in a .1 or .2 update after the initial release.

That is how MMO development works.

In the meantime, creeps can grab their free roll of toilet paper on the way out of grams.
Wipe it!

[Vastin]

Ok, so I've started mangling PvMP Creeps.

And I mean that. What you are likely to see in the next palantir/bullroarer push is the equivalent of what you see when you go into the garage to see if your car is ready, and instead you see that the mechanic has pulled your engine, taken it apart, and parts are spread all over the floor. My apologies - I had to spend most of my last cycle working on gear raid set bonuses, and was only able to just get to work on this.

Ok, it's not quite that bad - In this case your creeps should still function, but I'm reworking a bunch of their math baselines to make things more comprehensible and easier to balance in the future, and that work is NOT DONE, but I figured on a lark that you might be amused to take a sort of behind the scenes look at what's happening, and the general direction that I'm taking things. If there aren't at least a few stats on your characters that aren't WILDLY broken in the next push, I'll be disappointed frankly. No tester has even looked at this yet.

I have little idea if you'll be grotesquely under or over powered out there on the moors, so just amuse yourselves and let me know which parts are really grossly screwed up, and which are actually headed in the right direction. It shouldn't be that long before things are in much better shape, but the build deadline for bullroarer caught up with me, so this is where it lands at the moment. Well have multiple bullroarer builds before there's any danger of anything going live, so this is just interim work.

Err, that's assuming I even got this stuff checked in in time to hit the build window.

-Vastin

[Giliodor]

Ok, so I've started mangling PvMP Creeps.

And I mean that. What you are likely to see in the next palantir/bullroarer push is the equivalent of what you see when you go into the garage to see if your car is ready, and instead you see that the mechanic has pulled your engine, taken it apart, and parts are spread all over the floor. My apologies - I had to spend most of my last cycle working on gear raid set bonuses, and was only able to just get to work on this.

Ok, it's not quite that bad - In this case your creeps should still function, but I'm reworking a bunch of their math baselines to make things more comprehensible and easier to balance in the future, and that work is NOT DONE, but I figured on a lark that you might be amused to take a sort of behind the scenes look at what's happening, and the general direction that I'm taking things. If there aren't at least a few stats on your characters that aren't WILDLY broken in the next push, I'll be disappointed frankly. No tester has even looked at this yet.

I have little idea if you'll be grotesquely under or over powered out there on the moors, so just amuse yourselves and let me know which parts are really grossly screwed up, and which are actually headed in the right direction. It shouldn't be that long before things are in much better shape, but the build deadline for bullroarer caught up with me, so this is where it lands at the moment. Well have multiple bullroarer builds before there's any danger of anything going live, so this is just interim work.

Err, that's assuming I even got this stuff checked in in time to hit the build window.

-Vastin

Hey Vastin,
Good to hear you got something done. Can we infer from this post that what you've done so far will be seen on Bullroarer this weekend?

[Spilo]

Ok, so I've started mangling PvMP Creeps.

And I mean that. What you are likely to see in the next palantir/bullroarer push is the equivalent of what you see when you go into the garage to see if your car is ready, and instead you see that the mechanic has pulled your engine, taken it apart, and parts are spread all over the floor. My apologies - I had to spend most of my last cycle working on gear raid set bonuses, and was only able to just get to work on this.

Ok, it's not quite that bad - In this case your creeps should still function, but I'm reworking a bunch of their math baselines to make things more comprehensible and easier to balance in the future, and that work is NOT DONE, but I figured on a lark that you might be amused to take a sort of behind the scenes look at what's happening, and the general direction that I'm taking things. If there aren't at least a few stats on your characters that aren't WILDLY broken in the next push, I'll be disappointed frankly. No tester has even looked at this yet.

I have little idea if you'll be grotesquely under or over powered out there on the moors, so just amuse yourselves and let me know which parts are really grossly screwed up, and which are actually headed in the right direction. It shouldn't be that long before things are in much better shape, but the build deadline for bullroarer caught up with me, so this is where it lands at the moment. Well have multiple bullroarer builds before there's any danger of anything going live, so this is just interim work.

Err, that's assuming I even got this stuff checked in in time to hit the build window.

-Vastin

Awesome, excited to check it out.

Keep up the honesty and clear communication- it's a refreshing change.

[Constrictions]

Ok, so I've started mangling PvMP Creeps.

And I mean that. What you are likely to see in the next palantir/bullroarer push is the equivalent of what you see when you go into the garage to see if your car is ready, and instead you see that the mechanic has pulled your engine, taken it apart, and parts are spread all over the floor. My apologies - I had to spend most of my last cycle working on gear raid set bonuses, and was only able to just get to work on this.

Ok, it's not quite that bad - In this case your creeps should still function, but I'm reworking a bunch of their math baselines to make things more comprehensible and easier to balance in the future, and that work is NOT DONE, but I figured on a lark that you might be amused to take a sort of behind the scenes look at what's happening, and the general direction that I'm taking things. If there aren't at least a few stats on your characters that aren't WILDLY broken in the next push, I'll be disappointed frankly. No tester has even looked at this yet.

I have little idea if you'll be grotesquely under or over powered out there on the moors, so just amuse yourselves and let me know which parts are really grossly screwed up, and which are actually headed in the right direction. It shouldn't be that long before things are in much better shape, but the build deadline for bullroarer caught up with me, so this is where it lands at the moment. Well have multiple bullroarer builds before there's any danger of anything going live, so this is just interim work.

Err, that's assuming I even got this stuff checked in in time to hit the build window.

-Vastin

Thanks Vastin, you're a champ!

[auximenes]

Ok, so I've started mangling PvMP Creeps.

I don't even have time to PvMP at all anymore, but I still appreciate your efforts and your communication.

[Skoch]

Ok, so I've started mangling PvMP Creeps.

And I mean that. What you are likely to see in the next palantir/bullroarer push is the equivalent of what you see when you go into the garage to see if your car is ready, and instead you see that the mechanic has pulled your engine, taken it apart, and parts are spread all over the floor. My apologies - I had to spend most of my last cycle working on gear raid set bonuses, and was only able to just get to work on this.

Ok, it's not quite that bad - In this case your creeps should still function, but I'm reworking a bunch of their math baselines to make things more comprehensible and easier to balance in the future, and that work is NOT DONE, but I figured on a lark that you might be amused to take a sort of behind the scenes look at what's happening, and the general direction that I'm taking things. If there aren't at least a few stats on your characters that aren't WILDLY broken in the next push, I'll be disappointed frankly. No tester has even looked at this yet.

I have little idea if you'll be grotesquely under or over powered out there on the moors, so just amuse yourselves and let me know which parts are really grossly screwed up, and which are actually headed in the right direction. It shouldn't be that long before things are in much better shape, but the build deadline for bullroarer caught up with me, so this is where it lands at the moment. Well have multiple bullroarer builds before there's any danger of anything going live, so this is just interim work.

Err, that's assuming I even got this stuff checked in in time to hit the build window.

-Vastin

"There is some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."

Thank you for all your efforts, Vastin!

[GrandCru]

Ok, so I've started mangling PvMP Creeps.

And I mean that. What you are likely to see in the next palantir/bullroarer push is the equivalent of what you see when you go into the garage to see if your car is ready, and instead you see that the mechanic has pulled your engine, taken it apart, and parts are spread all over the floor. My apologies - I had to spend most of my last cycle working on gear raid set bonuses, and was only able to just get to work on this.

Ok, it's not quite that bad - In this case your creeps should still function, but I'm reworking a bunch of their math baselines to make things more comprehensible and easier to balance in the future, and that work is NOT DONE, but I figured on a lark that you might be amused to take a sort of behind the scenes look at what's happening, and the general direction that I'm taking things. If there aren't at least a few stats on your characters that aren't WILDLY broken in the next push, I'll be disappointed frankly. No tester has even looked at this yet.

I have little idea if you'll be grotesquely under or over powered out there on the moors, so just amuse yourselves and let me know which parts are really grossly screwed up, and which are actually headed in the right direction. It shouldn't be that long before things are in much better shape, but the build deadline for bullroarer caught up with me, so this is where it lands at the moment. Well have multiple bullroarer builds before there's any danger of anything going live, so this is just interim work.

Err, that's assuming I even got this stuff checked in in time to hit the build window.

-Vastin

Back to the Future...

[Tirn]

Back to the Future...

I know what you mean but he’s the only chance we have . It’s refreshing to see what at first sight appears to be an honest and forthright response . Let’s face it it can’t get any worse than this (can it ?) I appreciate the fact he’s responded and hopefully the myriad of complaints have hit the mark

[Turin_Turambar_The_F]

Let’s face it it can’t get any worse than this (can it ?)

It has and it can... that aside, appreciate the feedback, at the very least it will be refreshing to see a 'rework' creepside, even if it will be painful initially... as long as it's 'playable' before live.

[Sezneg]

It has and it can... that aside, appreciate the feedback, at the very least it will be refreshing to see a 'rework' creepside, even if it will be painful initially... as long as it's 'playable' before live.

Hey, even Moria turned out ok once they were able to retune after the initial release. Can't stress enough how PITA it is for them to adjust creep stats. A lot of manual work involved.

[Turin_Turambar_The_F]

Hey, even Moria turned out ok once they were able to retune after the initial release. Can't stress enough how PITA it is for them to adjust creep stats. A lot of manual work involved.

To come full circle... wasn't the complaint at that time, hunters one-shotting everything? The decision to utilize 'dev crits' has hurt this game, balance wise, for a long time... in fact the whole RNG epic crit dps has made gameplay absurd for some classes. Anyway, that's another issue, get creeps in a good spot first.

[GrandCru]

To come full circle... wasn't the complaint at that time, hunters one-shotting everything?

About 2 months of that, upon release, followed by about 2 months of stackable non curable Flaming Arrow, iirc.

[Sezneg]

About 2 months of that, upon release, followed by about 2 months of stackable non curable Flaming Arrow, iirc.

Actually, it took them just over 6 months before they reigned it in after moria launch. They fixed flaming arrow curability within a month.

[Snowlock]

Actually, it took them just over 6 months before they reigned it in after moria launch. They fixed flaming arrow curability within a month.

LOL, pft. what a lie.

[Kate00]

"There is some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."

Thank you for all your efforts, Vastin!

Says the guy playing a level scaled burg contributing directly to the problem in the moors.

[siipperi]

Flaming arrow was active for certain good 3-4 months. Whole spring in practice.

[Sezneg]

LOL, pft. what a lie.

Moria launched November 2008. Book 7 pvmp fixes and (more importantly) Freep gear scaling fixes launched in April 2009.

The duration of flaming arrow in-curability appears to have been from April 2009 to late May 2009, though dates are not available for all the patches on the wiki.

Kind of funny that you would assume someone who is recalling dates from 8 to 9 years ago from memory is lying. HOW DARE YOU POSSIBLY NOT HAVE PERFECT MEMORY OF EVENTS FROM 9 YEARS AGO!