Possible Ash Change ALERT - Be Informed.

[Brain9H]

From what I could see, the old ash did convert 1:1. Both had 10K caps. Whether this will change later, though, remains to be seen.

I really hope that is the case.

[MAWorking]

See! I didnt even know this. Interesting.

I believe there is confusion here.

Ash of Gorgoroth did convert to Mote of Enchantment.

Then they added Ember of Enchantment (but it bugged in this build and showed up as Mote also)

It appears the Ash conversion buys nothing in the new area.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

I believe there is confusion here.

Ash of Gorgoroth did convert to Mote of Enchantment.

Then they added Ember of Enchantment (but it bugged in this build and showed up as Mote also)

It appears the Ash conversion buys nothing in the new area.

Read my post here in this thread so you won't be confused: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...12#post7860412

[Brain9H]

I believe there is confusion here.

Ash of Gorgoroth did convert to Mote of Enchantment.

Then they added Ember of Enchantment (but it bugged in this build and showed up as Mote also)

It appears the Ash conversion buys nothing in the new area.

So ash didn't convert at all, it was just renamed.

It will be worthless to buy new gear, which means my $$ spent on boxes will be worth nothing. That's treating the customer poorly.

Suggestions:
* Make Ash convert into Embers when U23 is released.
* Create a backward-compatible conversion from Embers to Motes, so that people who still want to use ash (now motes) to buy lvl 115 stuff can still do it.

[MAWorking]

Suggestions:
* Make Ash convert into Embers when U23 is released.
* Create a backward-compatible conversion from Embers to Motes, so that people who still want to use ash (now motes) to buy lvl 115 stuff can still do it.

Agree. Some type of conversion is needed/warranted

[Macdui]

I think I'm almost as confused as SSG are at this point. :}

Maybe I should buy the super premium wallet in the store on patch day. This will give me contactless payment and auto currency exchange...

The attempt to make a currency span several content updates has plainly failed.

The only reason for this, all the mini upgrades for us to chase every month. I joked last year that new currencies would appear based on the typical fallout distance of materials from a volcano blast, it's coming true.

I do think it's about time to give away the Premium Wallet to those who don't have it yet. Would end problems like the recent relic debacle and then we can have all the currencies you need to limit stockpiling and stop the constant "rethink" on caps, bindings and raid farms. Such a waste of the budget.


Now ofc they CAN'T introduce a new key because the only peeps paying the wages are the key buyers who still haven't opened up the dailies.

Mac

[Macdui]

Just seen that my 100+ malleables are toast now. There I was going all the way to Udun to exchange excess essence for mats when I should have just ashed them for equally useless resources.


I wonder how long we'll still call it ashing and ashables? Moting, Moted and moteables doesn't do it for me. Embering, Embered and Emberbles OMG what hell have they unleashed?

Mac

[Valamar]

So ash didn't convert at all, it was just renamed.

It will be worthless to buy new gear, which means my $$ spent on boxes will be worth nothing. That's treating the customer poorly.

Suggestions:
* Make Ash convert into Embers when U23 is released.
* Create a backward-compatible conversion from Embers to Motes, so that people who still want to use ash (now motes) to buy lvl 115 stuff can still do it.

What you are sayin is -- you speculated that by stockpileing Ash, you would be able to buy level 120 gear on relase day.
SSG has stated in the past that this was a behaviour which was considered offensive and not within the spirit of the game.
SSG first got burned by it with Flowers in North Ithilian. So they introduced Ash with the Mordor Expansion, and now are continuing that same approach with Update 23, introducing Motes.

Which is to say, there is absolutely no reason to stockpile Embers of Enchantment because Update 24 will add yet another new currency!

There is absolutely nothing preventing "people who still want to use ash (now motes) to buy lvl 115 stuff" from still doing it. Just as people who have lots of flowers can still use them to buy flower gear.

[Macdui]

What you are sayin is -- you speculated that by stockpileing Ash, you would be able to buy level 120 gear on relase day.
SSG has stated in the past that this was a behaviour which was considered offensive and not within the spirit of the game.
SSG first got burned by it with Flowers in North Ithilian. So they introduced Ash with the Mordor Expansion, and now are continuing that same approach with Update 23, introducing Motes.

Which is to say, there is absolutely no reason to stockpile Embers of Enchantment because Update 24 will add yet another new currency!

There is absolutely nothing preventing "people who still want to use ash (now motes) to buy lvl 115 stuff" from still doing it. Just as people who have lots of flowers can still use them to buy flower gear.

Stockpiling ash for buying level 120 gear is offensive? Yet Stockpiling keys to turn into ash is SSG's business model. How is it we have to abide by this "spirit of the game" and SSG don't? SSG state a lot of things that were different before their DDO crew took over.

For instance; "why would you sell expansions for LP at release?" Turbine did, but they didn't even know it. Locks on non raid instances only came with Mordor, they presume it's the norm but it's not to us. Animation cutting is cheating, but was a dev published game mechanic.

Don't get why you'd bring up buying old gear with old currencies, alts I guess. We all know that the resources we gather in game will become redundant, fine we are used to that. When that gathering has been achieved by a cash input into the store people feel understandably aggrieved. I stored keys, selling keys pays the wages. If they make keys redundant they don't get paid. If they don't sell enough keys they'll just make it even harder to progress without them. Or even easier to progress with them.

We had a couple of years with no cap level Lootboxes, then someone had to poke the nest...

Mac

[Brain9H]

Stockpiling ash for buying level 120 gear is offensive? Yet Stockpiling keys to turn into ash is SSG's business model.

Exactly. I didn't stockpile Ash because I wanted, but because I opened lootboxes seeking gear.

Ash in lootboxes is an important mechanic at the core of lootbox profitability. Since the odds at good gear are hidden and very low, giving ash is a way to reward the player with something and avoid frustrationg. After 10 boxes (which cost around 20 usd), the player has enough ash to barter for something and won't come out empty handed.

Without this mechanism, lootboxes would be extremely frustrating... which is exactly what will happen if all ash becomes worthless.

[Linwenn]

The one at the top? Pretty sure that's TitanBar - http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo...-TitanBar.html

THX friends

[Derquin]

Ok, they want people to run the new content to get the new goodies...

But why did they move all old things to barter at the keeper of mysteries over to the new currency (like cosmetics, housing items, mounts and pets)? So ashes = motes of enchantment buy nothing but old armour.

[Arnenna]

Ok, they want people to run the new content to get the new goodies...

But why did they move all old things to barter at the keeper of mysteries over to the new currency (like cosmetics, housing items, mounts and pets)? So ashes = motes of enchantment buy nothing but old armour.

I'm not surprised or offended by a brand new currency, we have always had a new currency with a new area, even if the areas are the same level (West Gondor, different barter tokens to Central/East Gondor for example). But, they need to leave all items from old areas available for the old currency. So all the cosmetics, pets and housing items, as well as gear, that are old need to stay under the old currency, and anything that is new to U23, needs to go under the new currency.

I fully understand that they do not want players stockpiling ash now, to buy new items that are not yet in the game. However, I do not, and will not ever understand a system where players that hit 115 and Mordor, have to collect level 120 currencies to get the old Mordor stuff.

Just put all the new stuff under a different vendor and leave the keeper of mysteries in the Gorgoroth/Mirkwood hubs operating their own goods and own currencies. New area, new goods, new currency, new vendor. No confusion and completely up front.

I haven't had time to check BR yet (and i'm leaving for work now), but do the old keepers of mysteries in Mordor/Mirkwood have changes that move the old fluff items to the new currency, or is it a keeper of mysteries in the new area?

Edit: Just logged into BR quickly to check. All Mordor armours now moved to the High Enchanters in Udun and available for old currency, and indeed, everything else moved to the Keeper of Mysteries for new currency. This to me, is completely unacceptable. These are OLD items, OLD rewards and should remain available for OLD currency, just has ALWAYS been in the game. Please undo this change. Make new cosmetics and fluff for your new currency. Players arriving at Mordor at level 115 should NOT have to collect level 120 new currency for old rewards. Will CoS/Abyss and Gorgoroth boxes now award the newest currency to enable the correct level players (115) to barter for the old 115 items? Doubt it, so please put it back so that they can.

[Bragolos]

I'm not surprised or offended by a brand new currency, we have always had a new currency with a new area, even if the areas are the same level (West Gondor, different barter tokens to Central/East Gondor for example). But, they need to leave all items from old areas available for the old currency. So all the cosmetics, pets and housing items, as well as gear, that are old need to stay under the old currency, and anything that is new to U23, needs to go under the new currency.

I fully understand that they do not want players stockpiling ash now, to buy new items that are not yet in the game. However, I do not, and will not ever understand a system where players that hit 115 and Mordor, have to collect level 120 currencies to get the old Mordor stuff.

Just put all the new stuff under a different vendor and leave the keeper of mysteries in the Gorgoroth/Mirkwood hubs operating their own goods and own currencies. New area, new goods, new currency, new vendor. No confusion and completely up front.

I haven't had time to check BR yet (and i'm leaving for work now), but do the old keepers of mysteries in Mordor/Mirkwood have changes that move the old fluff items to the new currency, or is it a keeper of mysteries in the new area?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this the VERY REASON for putting a cap on ashes (10.000)?????? So that people would not be able to stockpile for a new update? Confused....

[Arnenna]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this the VERY REASON for putting a cap on ashes (10.000)?????? So that people would not be able to stockpile for a new update? Confused....

I think that probably had more to do with stockpiling for dot updates where new rewards were added to the current barters in the current areas. But as far as I'm concerned, new area, new currency is fine. I think people are forgetting that the latest currency in the game is tokens of the lakes, not ashes of Gorgoroth. But, the moving of old rewards over to the new currency is diabolical IMO, and should NOT happen. New area, new rewards, new currency, and not new area, OLD rewards, new currency.

[Derquin]

I'm not surprised or offended by a brand new currency, we have always had a new currency with a new area, even if the areas are the same level (West Gondor, different barter tokens to Central/East Gondor for example). But, they need to leave all items from old areas available for the old currency. So all the cosmetics, pets and housing items, as well as gear, that are old need to stay under the old currency, and anything that is new to U23, needs to go under the new currency.

I fully understand that they do not want players stockpiling ash now, to buy new items that are not yet in the game. However, I do not, and will not ever understand a system where players that hit 115 and Mordor, have to collect level 120 currencies to get the old Mordor stuff.

Just put all the new stuff under a different vendor and leave the keeper of mysteries in the Gorgoroth/Mirkwood hubs operating their own goods and own currencies. New area, new goods, new currency, new vendor. No confusion and completely up front.

I haven't had time to check BR yet (and i'm leaving for work now), but do the old keepers of mysteries in Mordor/Mirkwood have changes that move the old fluff items to the new currency, or is it a keeper of mysteries in the new area?

Edit: Just logged into BR quickly to check. All Mordor armours now moved to the High Enchanters in Udun and available for old currency, and indeed, everything else moved to the Keeper of Mysteries for new currency. This to me, is completely unacceptable. These are OLD items, OLD rewards and should remain available for OLD currency, just has ALWAYS been in the game. Please undo this change. Make new cosmetics and fluff for your new currency. Players arriving at Mordor at level 115 should NOT have to collect level 120 new currency for old rewards. Will CoS/Abyss and Gorgoroth boxes now award the newest currency to enable the correct level players (115) to barter for the old 115 items? Doubt it, so please put it back so that they can.

I had opened one new hero lootbox (116-120) in beta 1 and got the new motes of enchantment which are now called embers of enchantment. In beta 2 one posted the content of his new travellers lootbox (10-115) and also got embers of enchantment. I did try for several hours to get my hands on any of the new lootboxes and didn't have one drop for me in several regions

Old Gorgoroth boxes from copied chars gave motes of enchantment.

I don't know about CoS/Abyss boxes.

The only thing I kind of like is the new pricing for those fluff like cosmetics etc at the keeper of mysteries as it is 1 EoE for each (on BR). Guess that won't be the final one though.

At least they should make old fluff available for MoE AND EoE if they can't afford to make all new one... I certainly won't ever get near the cap on live as I won't buy keys but if one tries to get expensive fluff and does not manage to get them before U23 hits there will be quite a bit of quarrel. Especially with keys bought from real money.


As Arnenna said: "New area, new rewards, new currency, and not new area, OLD rewards, new currency. "

Edit:
So far besides a beautiful landscape and things like hobbit avatar updates and the old chairs finally working there is little appealing for me in U23. The dwarven armour look nice but I have no dwarf at cap and no interest in playing it with other chars. So thanks for getting to lvl 120 and being able to run around screenshotting and playing our own stories in more areas without disturbing mobs.

[Arnenna]

I had opened one new hero lootbox (116-120) in beta 1 and got the new motes of enchantment which are now called embers of enchantment. In beta 2 one posted the content of his new travellers lootbox (10-115) and also got embers of enchantment. I did try for several hours to get my hands on any of the new lootboxes and didn't have one drop for me in several regions

Old Gorgoroth boxes from copied chars gave motes of enchantment.

I don't know about CoS/Abyss boxes.

The only thing I kind of like is the new pricing for those fluff like cosmetics etc at the keeper of mysteries as it is 1 EoE for each (on BR). Guess that won't be the final one though.

At least they should make old fluff available for MoE AND EoE if they can't afford to make all new one... I certainly won't ever get near the cap on live as I won't buy keys but if one tries to get expensive fluff and does not manage to get them before U23 hits there will be quite a bit of quarrel. Especially with keys bought from real money.


As Arnenna said: "New area, new rewards, new currency, and not new area, OLD rewards, new currency. "

Edit:
So far besides a beautiful landscape and things like hobbit avatar updates and the old chairs finally working there is little appealing for me in U23. The dwarven armour look nice but I have no dwarf at cap and no interest in playing it with other chars. So thanks for getting to lvl 120 and being able to run around screenshotting and playing our own stories in more areas without disturbing mobs.

I just opened a new level 116 min level box, and got 120 embers, a mithrin essence of might and a broken statue of Sauron. So I can confirm that OLD, Mordor rewards are in the new area lootboxes. I mean, old, stale, year old rewards?? C'mon.

[Dmunney]

I am 99% sure there will be a new type of key for level 116-120 boxes ... May not make any round of beta either ... things like that have happened previously

[Arnenna]

I am 99% sure there will be a new type of key for level 116-120 boxes ... May not make any round of beta either ... things like that have happened previously

Red Panda has already said that the black steel key will open the new boxes.

In addition to my post earlier about the contents of the new box I opened, the broken statue of Sauron (that OLD reward from Mordor), disenchants into OLD ash (Motes). So, they are watered down with old rewards which give old currency, that can buy nothing but outdated max level 115 gear.

[Macdui]

Red Panda has already said that the black steel key will open the new boxes.

In addition to my post earlier about the contents of the new box I opened, the broken statue of Sauron (that OLD reward from Mordor), disenchants into OLD ash (Motes). So, they are watered down with old rewards which give old currency, that can buy nothing but outdated max level 115 gear.

Mistakes maybe?
Perhaps as the Lootbox Team expands to the size of the mighty E-commerce Team there might be issues with office space, communication and new staff. Increased parking requirements might mean the 40' container in the parking lot housing the QA team (tm) has to be replaced with a 20' one, still plenty of room for both of them ofc. Inability to sleep at night might also be an issue.

Mac

[Cordovan]

I wanted to get updated information into this thread to make sure everyone is clear on what we're doing. There were some things not-fully implemented on Bullroarer during these previews, so we understand why it's been a bit confusing.

So here's the deal:

- We are renaming Ashes of Enchantment to Motes of Enchantment in Update 23.
- Motes of Enchantment will be used to purchase older (level 115 and below) gear.
- The old Gorgoroth Lootboxes will yield Motes once Update 23 is released to the live worlds.
- Old items will be available for Motes with the old vendor, and the new vendor will offer new U23 gear for the new currency.
- Embers of Enchantment are the new currency, and will be used to acquire level 116 and above gear.
- A new lootbox will arrive in Update 23, and that box will provide Embers of Enchantment at level cap.
- Current, existing, and future Black Steel Keys will open all boxes, bold old and new.
- We expect to have a cap on Embers as we have with Motes/Ash.
- For future planning, you can expect that when we do a level cap increase in the future, the former Embers of Enchantment will become Motes of Enchantment, and be used to acquire the older gear.

[Decrepify]

snip.

If you are already milking people, why not make a Black Iron Key to only open Mithin Boxes?

[Arnenna]

I wanted to get updated information into this thread to make sure everyone is clear on what we're doing. There were some things not-fully implemented on Bullroarer during these previews, so we understand why it's been a bit confusing.

So here's the deal:

- We are renaming Ashes of Enchantment to Motes of Enchantment in Update 23.
- Motes of Enchantment will be used to purchase older (level 115 and below) gear.
- The old Gorgoroth Lootboxes will yield Motes once Update 23 is released to the live worlds.
- Old items will be available for Motes with the old vendor, and the new vendor will offer new U23 gear for the new currency.
- Embers of Enchantment are the new currency, and will be used to acquire level 116 and above gear.
- A new lootbox will arrive in Update 23, and that box will provide Embers of Enchantment at level cap.
- Current, existing, and future Black Steel Keys will open all boxes, bold old and new.
- We expect to have a cap on Embers as we have with Motes/Ash.
- For future planning, you can expect that when we do a level cap increase in the future, the former Embers of Enchantment will become Motes of Enchantment, and be used to acquire the older gear.

There is no confusion on actual gear for my part, however, the fluff items from Mordor, are in the new level 116-120 boxes, and when they are disenchanted, they give OLD ash (motes). So, old rewards and old currency from new boxes. Also, all the old fluff items that we could barter in Mordor for ash, are only available for the NEW ash on Beta.

So this part of your post . . .

"Old items will be available for Motes with the old vendor, and the new vendor will offer new U23 gear for the new currency."

is currently incorrect in Beta2. Old Mordor 115 gear is available for old currency (motes), but old "items" (as in everything else) is only available for the new currency (embers), and they are also in new lootboxes.

What this means is, I could buy a key to open a new box when I'm level 120, and get a Statue of Sauron, which will yield me OLD ash (motes) when I disenchant it. And all I can buy with that OLD ash (motes), is level 115 old Mordor gear, which will be absolutely useless to me.

[Cordovan]

There is no confusion on actual gear for my part, however, the fluff items from Mordor, are in the new level 116-120 boxes, and when they are disenchanted, they give OLD ash (motes). So, old rewards and old currency from new boxes. Also, all the old fluff items that we could barter in Mordor for ash, are only available for the NEW ash on Beta.

So this part of your post . . .

"Old items will be available for Motes with the old vendor, and the new vendor will offer new U23 gear for the new currency."

is currently incorrect in Beta2. Old Mordor 115 gear is available for old currency (motes), but old "items" (as in everything else) is only available for the new currency (embers), and they are also in new lootboxes.

What this means is, I could buy a key to open a new box when I'm level 120, and get a Statue of Sauron, which will yield me OLD ash (motes) when I disenchant it. And all I can buy with that OLD ash (motes), is level 115 old Mordor gear, which will be absolutely useless to me.

Correct, that's the not-fully-implemented bit I was talking about. The vendors are about half-done.

[laughatdo0m]

Why is there a cap on Motes if it is not the main currency to be used going forward anyway? If a currency becomes obsolete whenever a new major update comes out, there's no harm in leaving it uncapped.