Possible Ash Change ALERT - Be Informed.

[Arnenna]

Correct, that's the not-fully-implemented bit I was talking about. The vendors are about half-done.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

[Derquin]

...
- For future planning, you can expect that when we do a level cap increase in the future, the former Embers of Enchantment will become Motes of Enchantment, and be used to acquire the older gear.

Will old Motes and new Motes mix up in that case? Or will the former Motes become something else instead? If they mix up what would happen if the total goes over the cap?



I will wait for future builds to check on updated Vendors for old/new currency.

[Lord.Funk]

- We expect to have a cap on Embers as we have with Motes/Ash.
- For future planning, you can expect that when we do a level cap increase in the future, the former Embers of Enchantment will become Motes of Enchantment, and be used to acquire the older gear.

Hmmm, will this mean You will remove the 10K cap on old ash/Motes. Since in the future when Embers becomes Motes, then somone could sit with both at cap. 10K Motes and 10K Embers. Then as the 10K Embers also becomes Motes they could vanish if there is still a 10K cap on Motes, or overcap to 20K, but in any case a cap on Motes will cause problem as Embers turns into Motes in the future.

Woah that was complicated to write with all the Motes/Embers terms and be sure to refer to the right one.

Edit: I just noticed that Derquin have thought something similar. As I wrote/replied/questioned this I was reading and replying Cordovans post on the prevoius page and had not seen Derquins post yet.

[Cordovan]

Will old Motes and new Motes mix up in that case? Or will the former Motes become something else instead? If they mix up what would happen if the total goes over the cap?



I will wait for future builds to check on updated Vendors for old/new currency.

They will all go in the same stack, so you'll want to make sure to spend your Motes to keep under the cap (or not care if you go over, presumably because you have all the stuff you want from the vendor in that case.) There clearly needs to still be a cap on Motes, as otherwise it would encourage people to just hoard the old currency ongoing and forever, and ignore new gear until it becomes available for the old currency.

[Lord.Funk]

They will all go in the same stack, so you'll want to make sure to spend your Motes to keep under the cap (or not care if you go over, presumably because you have all the stuff you want from the vendor in that case.) There clearly needs to still be a cap on Motes, as otherwise it would encourage people to just hoard the old currency ongoing and forever, and ignore new gear until it becomes available for the old currency.

I'm totally against all kinds of steering and virtual barriers (freedom baby) but at the same time I appreciate a straight answer and explanation. I can understand Your reasoning on this even if I might not agree 100% with any caps, locks, artificial barrriers etc. Still, honesty is appreciated and I guess I only have to accept it and least now know and hopefully avoid overcapping in the future. As reference my son and I are not even more than half way towards cap on current ash as neither of us is a raider, not having the possibility to clock-in daily to do CoS, nor have unlocked dailies for slivers/keys yet. From simply doing CoS (not every day) it is hard to even come close to cap on ash.

On the other hand we are both overcapped in Festivity tokens on many characters, as well as on Thrang Tokens on both our accounts. Those caps are waaay to low in my opinion, but again, You da boss (ssg) and we will have to live with it.

[BotLike]

Thanks for the explanation.

- Current, existing, and future Black Steel Keys will open all boxes, bold old and new.

However , this is a really weird decision. You've implemented currency caps all over the place to avoid hoarding.
What stops us hoarding black steel keys currently on live , through dailies and use them on next level cap ??? -_-

And let's say U23 goes live , what stops us from doing level 115 content ( which will be 5 levels lowers at that point ) and get keys to use them on 120 items ?

Example : 2 months from now , i am a level 120 hunter , i do lvl 115 north mirkwood or mordor dailies , i get black steel keys , i use them on a level 120 lootbox , i barter for 120 essences.
Result : I do level 115 content and i am rewarded level 120 gear...

#sense

Does it make any to someone else ? Am i missing something here ?

You'll end up losing a lot of money and people will end up playing lower level content to gear on cap , similar to lvl 106 CoS runs but even more rewarding.........

Perhaps its time to completely dumb the lootbox system and only keep the ash vendor alive. : d
Assuming the ash we gain would be gained by in-game efforts , then it's a nice concept...

#fingerscrossed

[Arnenna]

Thanks for the explanation.



However , this is a really weird decision. You've implemented currency caps all over the place to avoid hoarding.
What stops us hoarding black steel keys currently on live , through dailies and use them on next level cap ??? -_-

And let's say U23 goes live , what stops us from doing level 115 content ( which will be 5 levels lowers at that point ) and get keys to use them on 120 items ?

Example : 2 months from now , i am a level 120 hunter , i do lvl 115 north mirkwood or mordor dailies , i get black steel keys , i use them on a level 120 lootbox , i barter for 120 essences.
Result : I do level 115 content and i am rewarded level 120 gear...

#sense

Does it make any to someone else ? Am i missing something here ?

You'll end up losing a lot of money and people will end up playing lower level content to gear on cap , similar to lvl 106 CoS runs but even more rewarding.........

Perhaps its time to completely dumb the lootbox system and only keep the ash vendor alive. : d
Assuming the ash we gain would be gained by in-game efforts , then it's a nice concept...

#fingerscrossed

I like the idea of only keeping the currency alive As for the rest making sense, it makes some sense to me, because they gate barter behind unlocks - ie deed completions or reputation.

Erebor items back at 85, was available for skirm currency which many players had massive stockpiles of (some from lower level content) - but they could only buy the gear if they satisfied the Erebor deed requirement. The same with raid abyss barter items currently on live, where early ash systems (like dailies or CoS t1) which are far easier than when they first hit because of dot update gear progression, are used to barter for raid gear, but only if you have completed the deed.

[Thodorin]

Will old Motes and new Motes mix up in that case? Or will the former Motes become something else instead? If they mix up what would happen if the total goes over the cap?

I will wait for future builds to check on updated Vendors for old/new currency.

They will all go in the same stack, so you'll want to make sure to spend your Motes to keep under the cap (or not care if you go over, presumably because you have all the stuff you want from the vendor in that case.) There clearly needs to still be a cap on Motes, as otherwise it would encourage people to just hoard the old currency ongoing and forever, and ignore new gear until it becomes available for the old currency.

Losing currency in the process of converting the new currency into the old currency due to the cap will lead to unfortunate customers. The converted currency should be allowed to exceed the cap (maximum is 10.000 + 10.000 = 20.000/10.0000) - only gain other old currency should not be possible until you are back below the cap. As with the introduction of the cap for the Thrâng-tokens.

...If you already have the enhanced barter wallet, you will not lose any tokens over the cap, but if you have 40 or more tokens, you will need to spend tokens before you can gain more from Boss from the Vaults: Thrâng. ...

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ap-Information

[B749]

Perhaps its time to completely dumb the lootbox system and only keep the ash vendor alive. : d
Assuming the ash we gain would be gained by in-game efforts , then it's a nice concept...

Or, rather than splitting Ashes into old (obsolete) Ashes and new Ashes, split Ashes into Lootbox Ashes and Content Ashes, allowing Lootbox Ashes to barter for Lootbox gear, cosmetics etc and allowing Content Ashes to barter for BiS gear. No using either type of currency for the other category of rewards. But then again, they probably wouldn't sell anywhere near as many keys that way as they do now. *shrug* priorities I guess.

[Montezuma's]

Thanks for the explanation.



However , this is a really weird decision. You've implemented currency caps all over the place to avoid hoarding.
What stops us hoarding black steel keys currently on live , through dailies and use them on next level cap ??? -_-

And let's say U23 goes live , what stops us from doing level 115 content ( which will be 5 levels lowers at that point ) and get keys to use them on 120 items ?

Example : 2 months from now , i am a level 120 hunter , i do lvl 115 north mirkwood or mordor dailies , i get black steel keys , i use them on a level 120 lootbox , i barter for 120 essences.
Result : I do level 115 content and i am rewarded level 120 gear...

#sense

Does it make any to someone else ? Am i missing something here ?

You'll end up losing a lot of money and people will end up playing lower level content to gear on cap , similar to lvl 106 CoS runs but even more rewarding.........

first of all people running cos 105 daily are giving online figures to SSG and to server comminity and create gamers atmosphere. If you remove that possibilty then you will see very few people online.
Secondly, on black keys - imagine situation that new lootboxes have drop rate like anorien lootboxes - black keys farm will not help you unless you spend game time in new region for lootboxes drop.

[yafga]

first of all people running cos 105 daily are giving online figures to SSG and to server comminity and create gamers atmosphere. If you remove that possibilty then you will see very few people online.
Secondly, on black keys - imagine situation that new lootboxes have drop rate like anorien lootboxes - black keys farm will not help you unless you spend game time in new region for lootboxes drop.

This is just a big no no.. You are not supposed to earn BIS 120 gear by doing level 105 content. That is just stupid!!

[Arnenna]

This is just a big no no.. You are not supposed to earn BIS 120 gear by doing level 105 content. That is just stupid!!

Nobody can earn level 120 gear by doing level 105 content. Hence, old ash/new ash.

I'd like to see a level 105 character taking on some of the dailies in Mordor, even if they could pick up the quests (which they can't). I think it would make for some entertaining viewing. Though they may get lucky with that single fly quest. Anyone running CoS at 105 - will get what they get now. OLD ash, which won't buy them the new gear.

New ash starts at the very lowest level 116, and that's in lootboxes. The new instances have a min level of 118, and I imagine if there are new dailies, they will be level cap 120.

BIS, has already been stated to be, inside the "instances", with slightly lower gear in lootboxes - which cannot be opened until level 116.

I'm not sure where you even arrived at the notion that anyone can earn any sort of level 120 gear, let alone BIS level 120 gear by running level 105 content. Nothing on Beta even suggests such a thing.

[Lord.Funk]

Has no one noticed that several times in his stream, Cordovan has said that the new lootboxes with grant Embers (new ash) "at level cap". This would indicate that if You open them at LvL 116 to 119 You will not get Embers. That maybe they scale with Your level, like some other chests and reward systems do in game. It could only be that he means the new cap raise like the new levels 116-120. However he specifically have said that they yield the embers "at level cap".

Just thought I'd bring attention to that, so no one wastes their keys opening them at LvL 116, if that choice of wording is correct.

[Derquin]

Losing currency in the process of converting the new currency into the old currency due to the cap will lead to unfortunate customers. The converted currency should be allowed to exceed the cap (maximum is 10.000 + 10.000 = 20.000/10.0000) - only gain other old currency should not be possible until you are back below the cap. As with the introduction of the cap for the Thrâng-tokens.



https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ap-Information

This!

[Lord.Funk]

Losing currency in the process of converting the new currency into the old currency due to the cap will lead to unfortunate customers. The converted currency should be allowed to exceed the cap (maximum is 10.000 + 10.000 = 20.000/10.0000) - only gain other old currency should not be possible until you are back below the cap. As with the introduction of the cap for the Thrâng-tokens.


https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ap-Information

This!

Acctually I think Cordovan specifically said it will "overcap" in his last stream. That would indicate that You could end up like 20.000/10.0000 in the future, just like with Festivity and Thrang tokens. However it was mentioned in passing, so we can't be 100% sure. Maybe a clarification from Cordovan (or anyt dev) on this would be nice.

Nothing that will affect us in this first round as the 10K cap is already on Ash and then Motes will be simply that 10K as well. However in the future as Embers turn into Motes yes it could start stacking up above 10K. Acctually some might be overcapped on ash still from the early days Ash Farms (unless ssg has forgotten that). I hope they will only be overcapped too and not lose anything over 10K. I personally am around 5K and that's the highest I've ever been, since I've never done dailes and earned keys to open lootboxes. Now that I finally have enough for a few nice gear pieces the ash will be useless (as in can be used on useless pieces, as lvl cap is raidsed again). Oh well.

As I have the premium wallet I have no idea if ash goes into the bags or ordinary wallet if one does not have the premium wallet ??? That might cause issues.