Update of landscape?

[Hyruule]

@Hyruule: Agree with everything, although I would phrase it a bit harder.

This, in all honesty, is the worst excuse not to document changes ever. To me, it leaves the impression that you run these automated tools over the landscape in a fire-and-forget manner, not even checking afterwards what has been altered.

This should not be the job of players on the live servers, this should be the job of your QA. If you use automatic tools to replace the landscape, you then need to go through it step by step to make sure there are no issues. Another option would be to do all the changes by hand in the first place. Yes, both of these options take time and resources. This is what your paying customers expect you to do.

(Again, with an entry in the change log, at least beta users were encouraged to take a closer look. Does not replace internal testing, but would make things better.)

Therefore, I add my approval to this bug list.

Don't worry, I have a pretty sharp tongue, but in this case there wasn't much to work with.

SSG has a known issues list for new patches which is suspiciously small every time.

There was a picture on the forum about North Downs completely missing textures in a few spots, which heavily implies that an automated tool was being used, as otherwise a normal person would've and should've noticed that.

SSG's QA mostly exists in name only, as you can't make me believe that they actually test what they develop, judging by the countless bugs everywhere. And even if a customer would report a bug, the changes of it being recognized + being fixed is almost as slim as winning in a lottery.

It takes time, resources and skills, and SSG apparently has no skills left in their crew that already butchered the game under the Turbine banner.


The sad thing is that people like us serve a software company our concerns and identified bugs/issues on a silver platter, and all you're getting in return is the silent treatment combined with decision that have you question their sanity and common sense.

Maybe we just have high standards and a strong sense of integrity, because SSG on the other end of the spectrum has none of that.

[Nigolas]

...

I completely agree again. Everything you say is, sadly, so true.

And until this changes, I will still play (on and off), but I will no longer pay. This is the only way left we can really bring in our voice.

[auximenes]

If you're against a detailed changelog to not spoil the search for those changes, why not give a general direction of region + POI, e.g. "North Downs: Fields of Fornost now really looks haunted and slightly oppressing" or something like that: your desire for discovery remains intact and I have a general direction of where to look for those changes.

/signed

[Lord.Funk]

While I do think the "surprise" factor is fun, at the same time I would have liked to have taken screenshots prior to the changes. Knowing where they were to take place and then be bale to have before and after screenshots. With time make a video or gallery showing the changes made. I like those types of things. That can not be done unless You know before hand where specifically changes will take place.

[auximenes]

A simple 'we made a few landscape design changes to zone X' would be all I'm asking for. Then I can enjoy both the exploration and the discovery of the changes. Too many details would ruin the exploration phase.

[-Shade-]

Well, that certainly fits me, lol.

Scenario, are there easter eggs in the updated zones like the Michel Delving post office or the camp above Andrath, that haven't been found yet?

Not sure if easter egg or accident. I found a stone grumpy cat face in that dragon area of the iron-hills. (43.4N, 34.3W)

[Scenario]

Not sure if easter egg or accident. I found a stone grumpy cat face in that dragon area of the iron-hills. (43.4N, 34.3W)

A completely unintentional likeness - but funny none-the-less.

[maartena]

Since you're updating the landscape I would like to suggest perhaps helping that hobbit out of the hedge in the bree north gate, and letting Adso (I think) finish his in, as well as that house south of Bree fields?

I know it's telling a story, which is why something have never changed, but you did change some things since launch all those years ago.

Also, help Bingo Boffin out.... after he "prepares for his swim" by running around, he stops in a newly added bush, making him more difficult to target. Either move the bush, or let Bingo end his warm-up on more open terrain!

[Feirlain]

Sadly, we are still missing the road to the town of Stoneheight in the North Downs. https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...of-Stoneheight

[FrauBlake01]

We have been going through and doing some work throughout the original areas of the game to try to bring them closer to our current standards of terrain. In some areas, this means a simple swap of terrain textures, others it might mean scene file work (trees, frills, rocks, etc) and others might get a more robust overhaul (such as mentioned about the Ram Duath).

We'll be continuing through Eriador, doing the work as we have time amidst other updates and new content releases.

Could we please get wood resource nodes in Forochel.

There is plenty of wood everywhere in the Misty Mountains, so I don't see why there is absolutely nothing in Forochel, not even in wooded areas.


What has been done so far is mostly awesome.

Now, if only the client had way better memory management and better rendering and multi-threading to get rid of the constant stuttering, it would be even more awesome and enjoyable ;-)

[ZoneTripper]

Scenario, it's perfectly understandable to use automation to make changes to such a large area of land. It can be a very useful tool. But it has been repeatedly documented that this can have negative effects on gameplay and aesthetics. And there have been several instances where even hand-placed objects interfere with gameplay and players' preferences due to a lack of understanding on your part (and perhaps others) of certain areas and what can spawn or occur there for quests.

I don't know what your processes are, but they do not seem to include taking a player character through newly changed areas to inspect them carefully, or to cross-reference them with quests in that area, or checking the movements of NPCs, or horse stable paths. Whether this is an oversight on SSG's part or due to a lack of personnel and hours is unclear. But something needs to change.

Documenting updates on Bullroarer is one solution. People who install the Bullroarer client obviously don't mind surprises being spoiled. And there are players who are willing to do the legwork for a lot of this if given the chance. Players are a resource. You should utilize them, especially before updates are released to the live servers. If forum posts are too casual an environment, then provide a more official place for players to assist you. Expand the the Palantir Private Preview Program. Something. Anything. But submitting bug reports after adverse changes have gone live should not be the primary way of dealing with this.

The landscape revamp was initially met with hope and optimism, and several areas have been enhanced due to your labor, but over the course of several updates, it's clear that there have been detrimental changes as well, some of which go unaddressed. Don't let easily discoverable and preventable issues overshadow the good work that you do.

[Echoweaver]

I am madly in love with the new Old Forest (as it were).

[maartena]

I am madly in love with the new Old Forest (as it were).

Aye, it's very well done. I also like the fog/mist addition to the Barrow Downs.... that was one of the first improvements they added to Eriador several years ago.

I am loving all of these small additions that keep popping up. The new shire is gorgeous with all the sun flowers everywhere, the old forest as you mentioned is really looking good (although I still get lost in it....), and apparently (I haven't seen them yet) there are some big improvements in Angmar on the horizon, as reported by Bullroarer testers!

There are quite a few new players that have come to the game with the legendary servers, and I often watch twitch streams of players on the legendary server, and although most of the streamers are RETURNING players, many of them have made remarks as to how well this game has held up graphically since its launch. They are of course limited to what the engine can do, but they can update the older zones to Dale-like qualities when it comes to the open world. I am very pleased to see them giving the older zones some love!

Keep it up!

[Palenen]

/signed

In game bug reporting please as it used to be.

Weeding through all the character model issues, level issues, xp issues, gear issues and because of the explorer in me, I am actually having a good time re-visiting all the lands on the LS.

[auximenes]

I am madly in love with the new Old Forest (as it were).

I was worried when I first read that they update the OF, but I was so pleasantly rewarded when I got in there. Very well done. The programming techniques and tricks that have been learned over the course of the game's development history really allowed for a stellar revamp to the OF. While I liked the original OF it suffered from very artificial looking tree walls.

[maartena]

Say, I was taking a character through the trolls area in the Lone Lands last night for the first time in quite some time.... (didn't do it on my main), and noticed that the area has changed somewhat. A similar fog like the one implemented in the Barrow Downs now exist there, and the vegetation is slightly adjusted.... all in all it looks quite nice.

Was this changed recently? (around the same time the Lone Lands had some invisible wall bugs and weird off-map openings?)

[Scenario]

I was worried when I first read that they update the OF, but I was so pleasantly rewarded when I got in there. Very well done. The programming techniques and tricks that have been learned over the course of the game's development history really allowed for a stellar revamp to the OF. While I liked the original OF it suffered from very artificial looking tree walls.

When I set to giving the Old Forest a revamp - I fell in love with the new tree walls. Such a vast improvement over the originals. The only thing we didn't quite have time for was some more variants, particularly for placement on slopes. But otherwise, I think they do a great job of making the forest feel open while also creating a maze, instead of creating impenetrable corridors.

Say, I was taking a character through the trolls area in the Lone Lands last night for the first time in quite some time.... (didn't do it on my main), and noticed that the area has changed somewhat. A similar fog like the one implemented in the Barrow Downs now exist there, and the vegetation is slightly adjusted.... all in all it looks quite nice.

Was this changed recently? (around the same time the Lone Lands had some invisible wall bugs and weird off-map openings?)

Yes - one of our World Designers spent some time in both the Red Swamp and Harloeg, with the goal of bringing in more modern assets and environmental effects.

[Elflord410]

When I set to giving the Old Forest a revamp - I fell in love with the new tree walls. Such a vast improvement over the originals. The only thing we didn't quite have time for was some more variants, particularly for placement on slopes. But otherwise, I think they do a great job of making the forest feel open while also creating a maze, instead of creating impenetrable corridors.


Yes - one of our World Designers spent some time in both the Red Swamp and Harloeg, with the goal of bringing in more modern assets and environmental effects.

Is there any way to toggle off some of the environmental effects like the ground fog? I have an older video card and my frame rate drops by 30-40% in areas with the fog. Sometimes by 50% in heavily saturated areas like Eryn Lesgalen. I've tried many different options in Advanced Graphics, but could not find any setting that turned the fog off. Thanks

[Echoweaver]

I'm just questing with my 7yo daughter into the Lone Lands. I can't wait to see the changes.

[Scenario]

Is there any way to toggle off some of the environmental effects like the ground fog? I have an older video card and my frame rate drops by 30-40% in areas with the fog. Sometimes by 50% in heavily saturated areas like Eryn Lesgalen. I've tried many different options in Advanced Graphics, but could not find any setting that turned the fog off. Thanks

Not sure if there is a current setting for that - but I can pass the concept along to our engineering team to see how feasible a filter for FX-heavy assets is.

[Tarhunmir]

Scenario, it's perfectly understandable to use automation to make changes to such a large area of land. It can be a very useful tool. But it has been repeatedly documented that this can have negative effects on gameplay and aesthetics.

Some of the added landscape features do need some trimming.

When I started this post I was in the North Downs. Now that I have wrapped up the deeds there and finally ported to Rivendell for the deeds in the Trollshaws, I noticed the bushes that are obscuring the path leading to Lord Glorfindel. I believe this has been reported by others earlier.

[maartena]

@Scenario, since you are working these things..... what are the chances that the Bree revamp that was launched about 6 years ago will get finished? I remember that developers back then said they had placed Rohan humans all over town, because the bree humans weren't done yet. Sadly, that was never corrected, so we still have Rohan humans all over Bree some (if I recall) with horse lord insignia and all.

[Dolamrothdame]

I was running with a character in the Barrows on Arnor yesterday and noticed that the ridges in some places can be climbed and used to travel to other sections. Liked that very much. Also discovered the revamp near the Last Bridge in the Lone Lands. I miss the second craban nest, but like that you can actually go around the back side of the Harloeg for a little bit. I was hoping to be able to go down the river into the Trollshaws and that wasn't the case (yet?), but it nonetheless made things seem less artificial.

[Macdui]

Not sure if there is a current setting for that - but I can pass the concept along to our engineering team to see how feasible a filter for FX-heavy assets is.

I don't have the rig for ultra high. Last time I did turn the graphics up was in the Wastes and it all got a bit "treacle-y". Toning down the graphic got rid of the mist there.

But a few of us would take issue in that the performance reduction that occurred with the datacentre move/merge still hasn't had any improvements made, yet the effect on performance is not on your radar for building the world, still. Yeah we have that 64-bit client coming so you guys can avoid all our performance questions, but the problems are still there. I get that as world builders you want us to take in the vistas, you even had someone reduce our mount turn rate to practically nothing for a few days to enable that. But we need to move around the landscape without getting sick from sliding this way and that. That 80ms ping to Boston had the promise of a 40ms Amsterdam ping only to give me 120ms through NY to NJ. We don't doubt you guys make a great looking world but we wonder if you guys actually run around in it on non-high end rigs to see what we see. How about taking a trip from Minas Tirith on a War-steed along the road to the south gate, take a left and follow the wall and take out the camp of Uruks and Orcs. Perhaps you won't notice anything amiss.


Mac

[WarmBeaches]

We have been going through and doing some work ....

Thanks for interacting on this thread.

Much of this game is beautiful. I like the way it all comes together.

That being said, I don't like the new shrubs/bushes everywhere. I can't see the mobs I'm fighting or coming upon. They block real things the player needs to see/do in the game. I was also in the shire and needed to pick up some stones for a quest and couldn't see them or their glowing things. I didn't really like this at all. It's very annoying. I went to the lone-lands and there were these shrub everywhere, as far as the eye could see. This once beautiful landscape (someone said reminded them of Kansas or something) was so busy now. No more plains. Splotches instead.

I turn off frills in the game - its set to like .5 or something, but I can't turn off these bushes. I play on lower graphics settings mostly except for textures and something else.

Also, I love the old forest, but I hate questing there because of the maze type design and having a tricky map. i say this because you mentioned it earlier. I think this is something with lore in the old forest maybe (because of something i read in a quest dialog), if so i understand maybe, but please don't make other areas with this tricky stuff if not needed. I'm running around (so slow) and run into walls. then i have to run back and fight mobs again. Kinda like the Trollshaws. I like puzzles in games, but not this kind.

Have a nice day. thanks for the work you all do. That's just my take on it.

Edit:
p.s. I know there is a lot that goes into making these games, so thanks again.